My New XPS


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As for the server.  A 2.0 ghz celeron will not compare in performance to that of a 3.0C ghz P4.  I didn't say the level of support had anything to do with it.

It's kind of hard to believe someone who doesn't bother using correct spelling or punctuation in his sentences.

ok, for the blind like ANova above, earlier i said

Celeron 2Ghz PowerEdge 400SC server is available for $274 after $100 rebate+free shipping. it has AGP8x, RAID SATA, standard ATX PSU, etc etc etc. upgrade this puter with same components you got there and you'll save yourself at least $1000

and like i said before regarding my spelling, JEFF K said it best, and i quote

JEFF K!!! - I DONT spell bad I types vary fast becuase I haev peopal too see and things to do and I cant SPELLCHECK becuase my fingars are liek lassaers!!1 mayeb yuo have tiem too sits around and play "OH HO HOW DO YUO SPELL TITTIES" all day but not me!
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250watt quality psu would do just fine. it would be cheaper to buy, cheaper to run, quieter, less heat

Just fine for any PC? yea.. that WOULD be true IF the 3.3v, +12v, and +5v were on dedicated outputs. This tends to be an expensive feature found on high-end power supplies. Due to the combined nature of most cheap 250s, the internal components would find themselves competing for power, which would compromise system stability.

Check it: The AMD Athlon XP draws about 80-90 watts. nVidia GeForce FX is likely to draw about 70-80 watts. Add to that 4 hard drives, two CD drives, 5 case fans, a high end CPU cooler and loaded PCI slots. Speaking for myself, a 250w CAN?T cut it. Sorry, but I don't think a 250 could handle that AND keep the machine stable. I?m not by any means suggesting you need a massive 550w+ power supply for this reason. (I might if you were doing phase-change or water cooling) On the contrary, a 350w is a safe bet in the overwhelming majority of cases. Since I have a lot of drives with sensitive data in my machine, I prefer to play it safe and accept nothing less than 400w. But that?s just me. I build PCs as do many people here. I've seen what happens when people insist they must cheap out on a crappy power supply.

Speaking of cheap... Cheaper to buy? Yes. You get what you pay for. And no, that link you posted of someone?s opinion doesn?t do it for me. Arrogant? Perhaps, but again: I?ve seen what happens when people cheap out on a power supply. My own experience means more to me than some dude with a web site. 'nough said.

Cheaper to run? Depends on your perspective. The electric bill might be lower (even then, not much) but if components die prematurely due to constant spikes and drops, you tell me which is more expensive: A one-time investment of less than $80 for a reliable, reputable, and safe power supply, or the unpredictable costs of replacing components like hard drives? How about the hassle of software rebuilds? Especially considering that data loss is a very real possibility??

Quieter? Questionable. Take a look at Enermax, Antec, Zalman and other high-end power supplies. All put out noise less than 24 db.

Less heat? On what? The power supply? Heat rises. Since it is above the CPU and everything else, I don't think what little heat a power supply puts out is of major concern here. Especially since worthwhile power supplies help with case cooling by drawing in heat from the system with an equipped bottom fan and expelling it outside the case with a rear exhaust fan. Sounds to me like such power supplies were designed to handle heat for this very reason.

Go ahead and use a 250 if you want. Certainly I wouldn't attack you for that. I?m just trying to state a response to what I see as a conditionally and debatably true statement on your part. For my part, I will do what I must to ensure I build quality PCs.

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Very nice... Lots of memory :laugh:

Some one i know has just bought a DELL they are waiting for it to arrive... I will have to go check wot system spec they got ! :woot:

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dell copies everything apple does (the psu in a different compartment).

and apparently so do the people who use them (copying the "i got a mac" threads)

you should have built it yourself. save money, overclocking, more fun in general.

Yep exactly-> if someone comes up with a new idea, no one else should be allowed to use it.?!

:wacko: :wacko:

Ok whatever.

P.S. I'm lovin' my new Dell laptop. I got a great system for a great price and it looks nothing like an Apple.

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also...why does he need to upgrade his mobo? i'm still going on my 1999 mobo. yes, i don't know if its going to run hl2, but it runs whatever is out there right now (i've done video card, ram, and a processor upgrade since 1999). i'd say his dell is a very good system that will last him a long time. if you buy into the myth that you need brand new stuff all the time, then you're definatly not spending your money wisely (as some of you seem to put so much importance on, telling him it would be cheaper to build it yourself). how is the $1800 more expensive than building 2 systems in the time he keeps his becuase he doesn't constantly upgrade?

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I think that that anandtech article summed us this issue pretty well. I will briefly summarize what the author said:

Not everybody likes to overclock their systems. Some people just don't have time for all of that. Some of us work jobs that require our attention more that we have time to just blow on building and tweaking systems. Some of us arent teenagers and find thrills not in congratulating ourselves for almost destroying hardware.

Some computer users want to buy a high performance system *out of the box. They don't get wet over new hardware like some of us. They just want a high performance system for a reasonable price that is already well configured.

Agreed?

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Due to the combined nature of most cheap 250s

<snip>

Check it: The AMD Athlon XP draws about 80-90 watts. nVidia GeForce FX is likely to draw about 70-80 watts. Add to that 4 hard drives, two CD drives, 5 case fans, a high end CPU cooler and loaded PCI slots.

<snip>

I've seen what happens when people insist they must cheap out on a crappy power supply.

Speaking of cheap... Cheaper to buy? Yes. You get what you pay for. And no, that link you posted of someone?s opinion doesn?t do it for me. Arrogant? Perhaps, but again: I?ve seen what happens when people cheap out on a power supply. My own experience means more to me than some dude with a web site. 'nough said.

Cheaper to run? Depends on your perspective. The electric bill might be lower (even then, not much) but if components die prematurely due to constant spikes and drops, you tell me which is more expensive: A one-time investment of less than $80 for a reliable, reputable, and safe power supply, or the unpredictable costs of replacing components like hard drives? How about the hassle of software rebuilds? Especially considering that data loss is a very real possibility??

Quieter? Questionable. Take a look at Enermax, Antec, Zalman and other high-end power supplies. All put out noise less than 24 db.

Less heat? On what? The power supply? Heat rises. Since it is above the CPU and everything else, I don't think what little heat a power supply puts out is of major concern here. Especially since worthwhile power supplies help with case cooling by drawing in heat from the system with an equipped bottom fan and expelling it outside the case with a rear exhaust fan. Sounds to me like such power supplies were designed to handle heat for this very reason.

Go ahead and use a 250 if you want. Certainly I wouldn't attack you for that. I?m just trying to state a response to what I see as a conditionally and debatably true statement on your part.

you basing all that rant on the fact that i suggestedCHEAPHEAP noname psu of unknown quality.

WHICH I DID NOT.

and i was talking about system in the 1st post of this thread.

sure 250watt won't be enough to run backup server with 17 SCSI3 RAID hd, robotic tape arm, and 200litter f:rolleyes:olleyes:

but config posted above is perfectly acceptable for 250watt psu.

i have one of those quiet Antec PSU that came with my Sonata case. yes they are quiet, but they are not designed for extreme cooling like you stated. such PSU have thermaly controled fan speed regulators and even at highest speed they are just enought to cool off themself and a little bit of internal case air. PSU with 2 high speed fans are far from QUALITYLITY 250watt PSU that can handle your hardware is cheaper to buy and cheaper to run than 450watt PSU.

Dan's Data is a very reputable quality site. on par with anandtech, hardocp and tom's hardware. and i would trust his advice over what majority of ppl on neowin would say.

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but can you over clock it?

Why would you overclock a system lke this that obviously just frking screams. That's just stupid. If you don't know why then it certainly wouldn't do any good to tell you.

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Why would you overclock a system lke this that obviously just frking screams.  That's just stupid. If you don't know why then it certainly wouldn't do any good to tell you.

It's just personal preference. If you didn't want a powerful system, you wouldn't shell out so much money for a Dimension XPS. So it would be reasonable to expect ability to overclock/upgrade.

I like to build my own systems because the options provided by Dell and other manufacturers are too restraining. But I have certainly been tempted by their warranty and service at times when my DIY isn't working smoothly. So, congratulations on getting a new system :)

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This has ended up being quite the thread, what a wodnerful community we have here.

But now I will settle a few MORE questions.

I got WinXP Home because I have Pro, Server2003 and RH8. Paying for Pro again is just silly. Plus, the dfference jsut isn't that much between pro and home. Save yourself to 70 bucks.

I don't want to overclock my system. I want it to run exactly as specified for the same reason people don't mess under the hood of their bran new Ferrarri- because it is a balanced system. Changing things COULD make it run marginally faster but at what cost? Bump the temp of the case up over 100?C, burn out your CPU? Why? Right now I plan on picking up a copy of Half-Life 2 and playing it at my 60fps liek the Tom's Hardware benchmarks show. What will clocking it up to 3.3GHz do? Give me 63fps and a burnout 1 year down the road. That is why I don't care if it is overclocked-- besides, since the P5 is specified to run on the same motherboard at the p4, I should be able to get this system up to 5Ghz in the next few years without too much hardware hacking. Also, the case is deep enough to support a drive with PCI-X which would do me well if FireWire 800 (or higher in the future) were to use it as I do plenty of video editing.

The 2GB of memory, while it is shown to be slightly slower than 1GB in every day use, you can not say that "1GB is all you'' ever need" Bill Gates said that about 64k back in the 80s. Now I have that much 30,000 times over. I am in it for the long haul with this box.

Now the power supply. Oh, jee the power supply.

The P4 3.0Ghz consumes an average of 83watts with a peak of 120. The Radeon consumed an average of 78 watts (while gaming) and peaks at just over 100. Five fans consume aboux 20 watts. Each hard drive consumes about 30 watts (I plan on adding 2 more). The RAID controller that ships with it consume 15 watts. The DVD drive consumes 20, the burner consumes 30. That adds up to 335 watts and we still havent coutned the motherboard @ 25 watts, my iPod 12 watts, Audigy 22 watts and the possibility of consuming more in the future. 394 watts. I think 460 will do me just fine, no worries. Plus, this power supply has conditional consumption-- it consumes only what it needs (and a small buffer) so it wont rack up the energy bill. (Cool fact: runnign thsi computer on an average day would be like having 4 light bulbs on all day, not that big of a deal).

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Ken, I would hate to be the one to burst your bubble, but the Prescott (the ones that have speeds over approximately 3.2 GHz) will not be compatible with that Dell mobo. The power and cooling requirements will exceed those for the Pentium 4 as well. An entirely new chip pin arrangement will be necessary.

However, I have no problem with your purchase.

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oo it must be so good because its a dell! no jealousy here, DIY is better

You wasted time just to say that?

The initial Prescotts will use socket 478, but you'll never see 5 ghz speeds with that motherboard. The Tejas is the pentium 5 which will start at 4.4 ghz. Prescotts are just newer editions of the P4 and will probably scale to 4.0 ghz max.

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That is why I don't care if it is overclocked-- besides, since the P5 is specified to run on the same motherboard at the p4, I should be able to get this system up to 5Ghz in the next few years without too much hardware hacking.

Wrong. Hate burst your bubble also but the motherboard you have won't support a 5GHz Intel CPU.

You are using Socket 478. Intel is going to make the initial Prescotts with Socket mPGA478 then shift to Socket LGA775. This is an entirely new socket.

Even though Intel is making Socket 478 Prescott CPU's don't bank on your Dell being able to support it.

So what you can expect is a 3.4GHz (P4EE Version) as your max CPU.

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The Tejas is the codename for what is believed to be to P5 Xeon. While the 5Ghz figure is definately an exageration (spelling?), the mobo WILL be able to handle the initial p5's since they have the same architecture/pin arangement etc. Knowing Dell they probably wouldnt offer a bios update but it can be done. A P5 WILL run on this system, but only the first few P5 chips. Heating shouldn't be all that much of a problem since I won't be using my P4 heat sink/fan, the P5's will be available with them. Plus the system is pretty well cooled to begin with.

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The Tejas is the codename for what is believed to be to P5 Xeon.?

Tejas is the superceding Desktop Intel Processor that will replace Prescott.

While the 5Ghz figure is definately an exageration (spelling?), the mobo WILL be able to handle the initial p5's since they have the same architecture/pin arangement etc.? Knowing Dell they probably wouldnt offer a bios update but it can be done. A P5 WILL run on this system, but only the first few P5 chips. Heating shouldn't be all that much of a problem since I won't be using my P4 heat sink/fan, the P5's will be available with them. Plus the system is pretty well cooled to begin with.

There is a socket change you ignore. Your motherboard only supports mPGA478.

Lets go with facts:

Intel Prescott Generation 1: (Intel Pentium 4 w/ SSE3 Technology)

Socket Type: mPGA478.

Intel Prescott Generation 2: (Intel Pentium 4 w/ SSE3 Technology)

Socket Type: LGA775

Intel Tejas Generation: (No Official Name on this piece yet)

Socket Type: LGA775

The motherboard you have may not even support Prescott due to the high level of current and heat that Prescott requires from the specific type of architecture that your board was design in.

Edited by xStainDx
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HAHA Flame time: Dude you shoulda built it urself a lot easier than you might imagine (neowin is here to help) but dell is decent for prefabbed pcs (minus falcon and other custom building companies) and alienware is a complete waste of $ unless you enjoy being ripped off think the case is worth 600 bux or have so much money it doesnt matter. anyhoo you overpaid (but not way too muc) so congrats on the comp.

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There is a thing called peak power consumption. If all those things happen to start up at the same time it can draw more power then the psu can output. In those cases your system will lock up and it could damage something. The gfx card isn't the only thing that draws power; your cpu, hard drives, and everything else such as fans, cd-roms, cold cathodes, etc. all add up. One of the neowin mods recently had to replace his 350 watt psu because it wasn't enough for his 4 hard drives and 9800 Pro.

As for the server. A 2.0 ghz celeron will not compare in performance to that of a 3.0C ghz P4. I didn't say the level of support had anything to do with it.

Bottom line is it's better to have a psu that outputs more power then you need then to have one that could be less then desirable in the future if you plan on upgrading (or adding) new components. Besides, it's not like a 400 watt psu costs $100 more then a 250 watt. The prices are insignificant.

4 hardrives is huge. plus 2 cdroms adds up

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4 hardrives is huge. plus 2 cdroms adds up

Actually the cd-roms take relatively small amounts of power. And they only do so when they are reading/burning a disc.

Typically the processor, any hard drives and high performance video cards require the most power draw in a system.

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