ahhell Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 It's on enough to listen to "xbox on", so it's on enough for PRISM or anyone else to turn it on remotely, without your knowledge! Unless you are allowed to TOTALLY disconnect the device, you are going to be vunerable to SOMEONE being able to watch what you do...its SOFTWARE, people, and SOFTWARE can be exploited, hacked, or changed. Your trust in Microsoft is misplaced. Do you have this concern about someone hacking your phone/laptop/tablet and turning on the camera? :s As for PRISM, the NSA isn't snooping your actual hardware device, they are snooping the infrastructure "pipes". Your cell phone puts you WAY more at risk than anything that the XBone/PS4 can do. You just seem to be raging against the Xbone just for the sake of raging. Also, it's quite humourous listening to parroting the same thing over and over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aergan Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 I don't think Amazon intentionally wants to embarrass one it's major suppliers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlintyV Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Still on this? Kinect is NOT always on. MS has said this numerous times. They said Kinect isn't always-on for some time now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaotic Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 QUIT WITH THE F***ING STEAM COMPARISONS! We are not comparing the new consoles to Steam, we are comparing to the previous gen consoles! The Steam comparisons HAVE to be coming from Microsoft's "reputation managers", I see this comparison on EVERY comment thread discussing the XBone! ENOUGH! It's on enough to listen to "xbox on", so it's on enough for PRISM or anyone else to turn it on remotely, without your knowledge! Unless you are allowed to TOTALLY disconnect the device, you are going to be vunerable to SOMEONE being able to watch what you do...its SOFTWARE, people, and SOFTWARE can be exploited, hacked, or changed. Your trust in Microsoft is misplaced. Yeah, what about the reports that the PS4 is outselling the Xbone TWO to ONE right now? http://www.tapscape.com/ps4-outsells-xbox-amazon/ http://blog.games.com/2013/06/17/ps4-pre-orders-doubling-xbox-one-gamestop/ Still a bunch of 4Chan users skewing the polls? I dont think so! If they can't compare it to Steam, what are they supposed to compare it to? Steam is literally the only thing out there that is similar to how the X1 is going to be. Btw, your phone is worse than the Kinect. It has a speaker, mic, gps, camera, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noir Angel Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 There are a lot of parties involved in making something like this happen. Remember how iTunes started out with very strict DRM to appease the RIAA? And over time became far more relaxed? (or in the case of purchased tracks, is gone?) This is a similar thing, though we're already talking about something far less draconian than how iTunes started out, with a lot more concessions to the consumer like trading, gifting, playing at a friend's house, etc. More importantly, the vast majority of players (i.e. the non-pirates) won't notice any new restrictions, but instead will benefit from a lot of awesome new features. No more discs needed to play. Instant switching between any games in your library, or instantly jump into any game when you get an invite while watching TV or movies. Play games at your friends' house without carrying discs around. I think a lot of people are getting stuck in hypotheticals like if your internet connection goes down for a prolonged period of time and you want to play a single player game. Thing is, that's (rare for most people) error case which they haven't even yet discussed how it will be dealt with. How do you know there won't be something like what Steam does? Steam phones home regularly if a connection is available, even in "offline" mode, and will not let you play offline if there's an update. But if there is no connection at all, it will let you go longer. I wouldn't be surprised if MS ends up wit a system closer to that than what others have assumed will arrive. The fact that Microsoft are the ones making the money from the used games market would make somewhat of a mockery out of the argument that this move was to do anything but line their own pocket. If it were about appeasing the game studios the money from activation codes would go to them not to Microsoft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spenser.d Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 The fact that Microsoft are the ones making the money from the used games market would make somewhat of a mockery out of the argument that this move was to do anything but line their own pocket. If it were about appeasing the game studios the money from activation codes would go to them not to Microsoft. Microsoft isn't making money from the used games market though. Not sure why you think they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Live Veteran Posted June 18, 2013 Veteran Share Posted June 18, 2013 No, I think that publishers are quite content to sit back and watch how the situation unfolds. They obviously don't care enough since Sony has managed to continue the status quo. And seeing as retailers stand to lose the most over this, I don't think Microsoft really cares about their input. As far as Steam goes, to my understanding when autoupdating is disabled per-game, checks are only made on launch - so if you enable offline mode beforehand you're fine. Who the hell wants the status quo? Obviously publishers are fine with that. Discs required to play games, crappy digital distribution stories. I thought we were talking about bringing console gaming into the modern era, not business as usual. Steam's website clearly states that even when offline mode is enabled, the client will check for Steam updates and require them to be applied before you can play offline games. Of course, if you're not connected at all, then the client won't know there are updates. But as soon as it does, it locks you out until they're applied. Firstly, Apple was required to implement that DRM in order to get access to the music libraries of music publishers. That simply isn't the case with games publishers, as evidenced by the PS4's traditional disc-based approach. Secondly, the 24hr check-in required by the X1 certainly is more draconian than iTunes' DRM. If for any reason you cannot access the Microsoft servers then you lose access to your games and?as we've seen with Steam and Battle.net?server outages will happen. We mustn't forget that Sony was compromised by repeated DDOS attacks and it's likely that Microsoft will see similar attacks made against it. The reality is that Microsoft has opted for this course of its own volition and many people are rightly concerned. Microsoft stated that one of the advantages of the DRM is the ability to offer lower prices but we already know that the company will be releasing games at the top end of the current price bracket. That's without other concerns, like the Kinect's always-on status when combined with hackers and intrusive governments (the US government being the obvious example). Don't get me wrong, the digital distribution approach has many advantages and Steam is an obvious example of that. However, a lot of people don't trust Microsoft as the company has a long history of anti-competitive business practices. I don't think anyone believes for one minute that Microsoft is doing this for the best interests of gamers. This is a power play in order to cosy up with publishers at the expense of gamers. If I were a console gamer I'd be opting for the PS4 despite the impressive features offered by the X1. Again, who the hell wants discs? That's like saying Apple was only required to implement that DRM because they weren't content with their competitors traditional disc-based approach. Microsoft has been running their service far longer and hasn't had any incidents like the Sony one you mentioned. Sony doesn't know how to run services like that at scale. Microsoft does, it's their business! Kinect isn't "always-on" that's just silly. In standby mode it listens for exactly one thing, "Xbox on." And you can turn that off if you don't like it (personally, it's one of my favorite features!). Considering he explicitly mentioned hackers and spying I'm fairly certain he means always-connected. I.e. It might not be always on normally, but that's irrelevant if someone gains access and activates it. How is that different from the Xbox 360 with Kinect. Or any phone. Or any iPad, Surface, etc. That's never been a problem on those devices. It won't be here either. Never mind that the damn PS4 is "always-on" in exactly the same way and has an optional camera. QUIT WITH THE F***ING STEAM COMPARISONS! We are not comparing the new consoles to Steam, we are comparing to the previous gen consoles! The Steam comparisons HAVE to be coming from Microsoft's "reputation managers", I see this comparison on EVERY comment thread discussing the XBone! ENOUGH! It's on enough to listen to "xbox on", so it's on enough for PRISM or anyone else to turn it on remotely, without your knowledge! Unless you are allowed to TOTALLY disconnect the device, you are going to be vunerable to SOMEONE being able to watch what you do...its SOFTWARE, people, and SOFTWARE can be exploited, hacked, or changed. Your trust in Microsoft is misplaced. Yeah, what about the reports that the PS4 is outselling the Xbone TWO to ONE right now? http://www.tapscape.com/ps4-outsells-xbox-amazon/ http://blog.games.com/2013/06/17/ps4-pre-orders-doubling-xbox-one-gamestop/ Still a bunch of 4Chan users skewing the polls? I dont think so! Umm, no. To all of it. The fact that Microsoft are the ones making the money from the used games market would make somewhat of a mockery out of the argument that this move was to do anything but line their own pocket. If it were about appeasing the game studios the money from activation codes would go to them not to Microsoft. Wait what? Everything I've read has said the whole point of this is that the used game thing gives money back to publishers/developers and possibly retailers. What is your source that disagrees with what MS said? From IGN: "We designed Xbox One so game publishers can enable you to trade in your games at participating retailers. Microsoft does not charge a platform fee to retailers, publishers, or consumers for enabling transfer of these games." They only say that Microsoft Studios (the publisher) will have a trade-in program in place: "In our role as a game publisher, Microsoft Studios will enable you to give your games to friends or trade in your Xbox One games at participating retailers. Third party publishers may opt in or out of supporting game resale and may set up business terms or transfer fees with retailers. Microsoft does not receive any compensation as part of this. In addition, third party publishers can enable you to give games to friends." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Audioboxer Subscriber² Posted June 18, 2013 Author Subscriber² Share Posted June 18, 2013 Who the hell wants the status quo? Obviously publishers are fine with that. Discs required to play games, crappy digital distribution stories. I thought we were talking about bringing console gaming into the modern era, not business as usual. Steam's website clearly states that even when offline mode is enabled, the client will check for Steam updates and require them to be applied before you can play offline games. Of course, if you're not connected at all, then the client won't know there are updates. But as soon as it does, it locks you out until they're applied. Again, who the hell wants discs? That's like saying Apple was only required to implement that DRM because they weren't content with their competitors traditional disc-based approach. Microsoft has been running their service far longer and hasn't had any incidents like the Sony one you mentioned. Sony doesn't know how to run services like that at scale. Microsoft does, it's their business! Kinect isn't "always-on" that's just silly. In standby mode it listens for exactly one thing, "Xbox on." And you can turn that off if you don't like it (personally, it's one of my favorite features!). How is that different from the Xbox 360 with Kinect. Or any phone. Or any iPad, Surface, etc. That's never been a problem on those devices. It won't be here either. Never mind that the damn PS4 is "always-on" in exactly the same way and has an optional camera. Umm, no. To all of it. Wait what? Everything I've read has said the whole point of this is that the used game thing gives money back to publishers/developers and possibly retailers. What is your source that disagrees with what MS said? Seriously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Live Veteran Posted June 18, 2013 Veteran Share Posted June 18, 2013 Seriously? About not wanting discs? Of course. You do? Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Audioboxer Subscriber² Posted June 18, 2013 Author Subscriber² Share Posted June 18, 2013 About not wanting discs? Of course. You do? Why? My internet is 3.5mb. I like to own a collection to display. I like to actually own my console games and do whatever I want with them, whether that be trade, sell, give to a friend or play in a location like a caravan or on holiday with no internet. It is FAR FAR FAR cheaper to buy discs. Why would I want to pay ?60 for The Last of Us on PSN when I can buy it for ?30 and actually own it, not license it. Games in the UK market plummet in price weeks after release, you'd have to be an idiot to pay for a game on PSN at full RRP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaotic Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Seriously? About not wanting discs? Of course. You do? Why? I love digital now that I've been using Steam for so long. Being able to download full games in a few hours is amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Audioboxer Subscriber² Posted June 18, 2013 Author Subscriber² Share Posted June 18, 2013 I love digital now that I've been using Steam for so long. Being able to download full games in a few hours is amazing. Yeah it would be great to buy Tomb Raider for ?49.99 - https://store.sonyentertainmentnetwork.com/#!/en-gb/games/tomb-raider-digital-edition/cid=EP0082-NPEJ00114_00-B000000000000300 when it can be bought for ?20 - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Square-Enix-Tomb-Raider-PS3/dp/B0051NNVYI Digital is perfectly fine on consoles as a supplement, but as the only route? Hell no when a company has a monopoly over it's box/OS. You cannot have a monopoly on a PC/Mac. There is competition for pricing from MANY different sellers/platforms, hence sales, DRM free options and the PC being better value for money than consoles for GAME software. If you want a console to be digital only then you might as well just buy a PC. It really isn't a console by any sort of traditional means and on the PC you'll get far better value for money/options on where to buy digitally from and pretty much not be forced to do anything as you can play whatever you want offline/online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noir Angel Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 "In our role as a game publisher, Microsoft Studios will enable you to give your games to friends or trade in your Xbox One games at participating retailers. Third party publishers may opt in or out of supporting game resale and may set up business terms or transfer fees with retailers. Microsoft does not receive any compensation as part of this. In addition, third party publishers can enable you to give games to friends." I'm sure I recall reading that the fees for the codes on games that were being traded would go to Microsoft and not the publisher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaP Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 How is that different from the Xbox 360 with Kinect. Or any phone. Or any iPad, Surface, etc. That's never been a problem on those devices. It won't be here either. Never mind that the damn PS4 is "always-on" in exactly the same way and has an optional camera. Kinect 2 must be connected at all time. Kinect doesn't need to be connected at all time. The camera on an iphone/surface is unobstructive. Kinect 2 takes shelf real estate for no reason if someone doesn't use it. I'm sure I recall reading that the fees for the codes on games that were being traded would go to Microsoft and not the publisher. No Microsoft gets no money from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athernar Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Who the hell wants the status quo? Obviously publishers are fine with that. Discs required to play games, crappy digital distribution stories. I thought we were talking about bringing console gaming into the modern era, not business as usual. Steam's website clearly states that even when offline mode is enabled, the client will check for Steam updates and require them to be applied before you can play offline games. Of course, if you're not connected at all, then the client won't know there are updates. But as soon as it does, it locks you out until they're applied. How is that different from the Xbox 360 with Kinect. Or any phone. Or any iPad, Surface, etc. That's never been a problem on those devices. It won't be here either. Never mind that the damn PS4 is "always-on" in exactly the same way and has an optional camera. Sorry, but placing pointless restrictions on physical media is neither innovative nor is it bringing consoles gaming into the future. You keep bringing up Steam, while glossing over the clear disparity with how Steam naturally "came to power" and Microsoft's attempt to wrest control from 3rd-parties. I'm not seeing where it says anything remotely like that on the Steam support article. Care to point it out? How is it different? Simple, it's not mandatory. And really now, you know full well there have been multiple incidences where connected devices have been used to remotely capture images/audio. Are you confident enough to say that such breaches are not possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaotic Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Yeah it would be great to buy Tomb Raider for ?49.99 - https://store.sonyentertainmentnetwork.com/#!/en-gb/games/tomb-raider-digital-edition/cid=EP0082-NPEJ00114_00-B000000000000300 when it can be bought for ?20 - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Square-Enix-Tomb-Raider-PS3/dp/B0051NNVYI Digital is perfectly fine on consoles as a supplement, but as the only route? Hell no when a company has a monopoly over it's box/OS. You cannot have a monopoly on a PC/Mac. There is competition for pricing from MANY different sellers/platforms, hence sales, DRM free options and the PC being better value for money than consoles for GAME software. If you want a console to be digital only then you might as well just buy a PC. It really isn't a console by any sort of traditional means and on the PC you'll get far better value for money/options on where to buy digitally from and pretty much not be forced to do anything as you can play whatever you want offline/online. http://kotaku.com/so...for-p-514144920 Not sure if you guys saw this today. Yoshida: "The things we want to see change [is to have] more people embrace the digital side and have more people connect." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Audioboxer Subscriber² Posted June 18, 2013 Author Subscriber² Share Posted June 18, 2013 http://kotaku.com/so...for-p-514144920 Not sure if you guys saw this today. Yoshida: "The things we want to see change [is to have] more people embrace the digital side and have more people connect." Of course they want people using digital as well. The PSN store is probably one of the biggest money makers. That does not mean they need to force people into digital only, simply offer reasons for owners to at least entertain the idea of exploring the PSN store. You don't give people a choice you simply hedge all your bets on having enough people happy with digital, and completely lose everyone who likes buying and owning discs. Indie games cannot be distributed through discs and Sony are pushing like indie crazy with the PS4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Observer Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Paid rat who allowed 95% people to vote for PS4? yeah that makes sense... :/ Steam sales are meaningless to people who don't have internet and your internet seems to be unreliable. LOL my internet is working great all the time, longest time for no internet was 1 week when i moved from one house to another house, i also have alot of family not rich enough to get internet here in NZ, but they are playing there xbox360 fine, and renting there games just fine. And please just tell me WHY we need to connect the xboxOne to the internet once everyday, that is all, please tell me the reason MS has told us WHY we need to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctrl_alt_delete Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 So far it seems the xbox one is getting obliterated in pre order sales. But hopefully I can get an xbox one onlaunch dday. To how it's lookin that houldn't be a problem. Looks like there's gonna be a lot of ps4 users around. So hopefully xbox live will have a bit more mature people. Anyways, hope everyone enjoy whichever console they choose to go with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BajiRav Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 LOL my internet is working great all the time, longest time for no internet was 1 week when i moved from one house to another house, i also have alot of family not rich enough to get internet here in NZ, but they are playing there xbox360 fine, and renting there games just fine. And please just tell me WHY we need to connect the xboxOne to the internet once everyday, that is all, please tell me the reason MS has told us WHY we need to. I don't know why. You seem to have mistaken me for being OK with XB1 (hint: I am not). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yogurtmaster Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 John said... "QUIT WITH THE F***ING STEAM COMPARISONS! We are not comparing the new consoles to Steam, we are comparing to the previous gen consoles! The Steam comparisons HAVE to be coming from Microsoft's "reputation managers", I see this comparison on EVERY comment thread discussing the XBone! ENOUGH!" Yogurt said... "The big reason why you see this is that it is very much like Steam. Everyone in the entire industry is moving towards a digital future. This is not 1999 anymore. By the time these consoles will be released it will almost be 2014. Microsoft is offering things like instant switching to games, applications, and TV. This is a big feature. I know people will say this means nothing, but they are wrong, it's extreme convenience. Then you have the family share, which allows you to share games across the Internet with other people. " John said... "It's on enough to listen to "xbox on", so it's on enough for PRISM or anyone else to turn it on remotely, without your knowledge! Unless you are allowed to TOTALLY disconnect the device, you are going to be vunerable to SOMEONE being able to watch what you do...its SOFTWARE, people, and SOFTWARE can be exploited, hacked, or changed. Your trust in Microsoft is misplaced." Yogurt said... http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/privacy John said... "Yeah, what about the reports that the PS4 is outselling the Xbone TWO to ONE right now? http://www.tapscape.com/ps4-outsells-xbox-amazon/ http://blog.games.com/2013/06/17/ps4-pre-orders-doubling-xbox-one-gamestop/ Still a bunch of 4Chan users skewing the polls? I dont think so!" Yogurt said... "This still could change over time and by launch. We have 6 months left before the launch of the console and Microsoft could change their tune on a few things and that is all it would need to take and they can just let the public know and it all changes." On another topic, this forum software is horrible. When I try to quote posts it won't quote them correctly. It's just horrible. A huge downgrade in my opinion. I just used my own system because "quote" is such a horrible mess right now. Why not just us re-register so you can find a better forum software? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrytuckerr Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 It's ridiculous how uninformed people are - Microsoft's PR has some serious work to do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Live Veteran Posted June 20, 2013 Veteran Share Posted June 20, 2013 I'm sure I recall reading that the fees for the codes on games that were being traded would go to Microsoft and not the publisher. Well whoever posted that was incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nashy Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 Pfft. All it takes is one ###### off /b/ or reddit user to turn a vote to ######. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Live Veteran Posted June 20, 2013 Veteran Share Posted June 20, 2013 Sorry, but placing pointless restrictions on physical media is neither innovative nor is it bringing consoles gaming into the future. You keep bringing up Steam, while glossing over the clear disparity with how Steam naturally "came to power" and Microsoft's attempt to wrest control from 3rd-parties. I'm not seeing where it says anything remotely like that on the Steam support article. Care to point it out? How is it different? Simple, it's not mandatory. And really now, you know full well there have been multiple incidences where connected devices have been used to remotely capture images/audio. Are you confident enough to say that such breaches are not possible? It's mentioned here: http://www.howtogeek.com/117424/how-to-make-steams-offline-mode-work/ and I saw it before on one of the steam pages. They weren't pointless restrictions, either. They were perfectly sensible if you thought of all games as digital downloads, with discs just being the "sneaker net" connectivity option to avoid the multi-GB download. I think Steam games work this exact same way. Heck, apparently they sometimes actually download the game anyway even though you have the disc! Camera and microphone absolutely are mandatory on iPads, iPhones, and countless other devices you haven't complained about. So you still haven't answered the question about how those are different. I am unaware of any of those devices ever having their webcams or microphones hacked in the way you suggest (i.e. the device is asleep and someone remotely hijacks it and turns it on and starts spying on you). Asking for a statement that something is "not possible" is a cop-out. Lots of things are hypothetically "possible" but not practically so. So far it seems the xbox one is getting obliterated in pre order sales. But hopefully I can get an xbox one onlaunch dday. To how it's lookin that houldn't be a problem. Looks like there's gonna be a lot of ps4 users around. So hopefully xbox live will have a bit more mature people. Anyways, hope everyone enjoy whichever console they choose to go with. Seeing as they're sold out most places, how is it getting obliterated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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