f0rk_b0mb Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 I wish Microsoft can bring aero glass back in 8.2 only for Windows 8 (not RT) Out of all three OS's, Windows, Linux, And Mac OS X, Windows has some really kick ass transparency effects, and the whole idea of being able to switch the colors is awesome. When I first saw Vista, the first thing out of my mouth was "Wow." Pulagatha 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trooper11 Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 I'm not sure what the obsession is to bring desktop apps to windows rt/arm. Windows on arm is not meant to be a productivity OS. Who in their right mind is going to sit down and try to use a windows desktop app on an 8 or 10" tablet? Sure, I can see a very small % of power users that would love to bring their favorite apps along, but this does nothing to improve Win tablets for consumers. What is needed is a better app market on Win 8. Once enough developers are building quality apps for Win 8, then suddenly a Win RT type of tablet makes a lot of sense to most consumers. Allowing arm desktop apps will not solve that. Besides, why not allow it to remain a walled garden and keep it more secure then a standard windows environment could be thanks to its more open nature. Reading through this thread, it seems clear that some people simply want MS to go back to Windows 7. They don't want anything to do with Metro and believe MS should not be trying to cater to other markets beyond the traditional desktop OS. Well if that happened and MS were to get rid of Metro and just focus on evolving the desktop os from 7 (so lets say just take the desktop side of 8), MS would be fairly steadily walked out of the market thanks to the pc decline. They become the next IBM and you guys can just all move on to the next cool thing out there. Of course, that might not be a smart move for MS. If they want to be a devices and services company, then they need a strong consumer presence. That means they have to address the changing landscape when it comes to what people are using. There is a shift away from a traditional pc and a move to tablets, smartphones, and ultra portable laptops. We can moan and groan all we want, but the reality is that the vast majority of pc users are finding that they no longer need to buy a pc to get things done. That is related to the fact that they simply aren't doing complex things with their pcs. A desktop environment may always be needed, especially in the enterprise sector, but consumer interests are changing and it doesn't seem to be slowing down. Despite what some might say, the desktop is not going anywhere and MS has made that clear. They don't intend to remove the desktop, just to create a transition option for those users that are embracing the touch environments of tablets or smartphones. A few notes regarding 8.2: So that leads us back to Win 8. No, I don't think the answer is to remove Metro, but rather keep improving it. I think that 8.2 should bring with it more customizations so that the user can choose to say disable the metro ui outside of the Start Screen. 8.1 already adds much of that, but I'm sure some would appreciate more control. They should continue to make tweaks to the desktop, although to me, the desktop is so mature at this point, that is not a whole lot they need to do, just work on bug fixes. 8.2 also needs to continue to mix the metro ui with the desktop side in smarter ways, such as allowing for pinned shortcuts to metro apps on the desktop, and possibly some kind of windowed mode for apps. They also need to keep improving the multitasking behavior, as far as how the snap modes work. I like the changes in 8.1 to allow more control over the size of the snapped view, but they could do more. 8.2's biggest goal though should be to improve the Metro UI. That means they need to going over every aspect of it and looking for ways to improve productivity and bring in more desktop-like features where it makes sense. Again, 8.1 is doing some of this with the inclusion of a file manager and migrating the rest of the system settings, but they still have much more work to do to make the Metro side a mature environment. They need to build on the app store improvements in 8.1 to make it as easy as possible for developers to get their software pushed into the market. They also need to keep improving the apis so that developers can make the most of Metro and not feel limited functionality wise. MS needs to aggressively court developers of a wide range of content, from productivity apps to games. The bigger their library, the bigger their user base. Finally, they need to finish the job of bringing Windows Phone, the Xbox 1 and Win RT/8 under one OS roof, meaning a shared app marketplace and a shared design/ code base. That way, all platforms can feed off of each other, with developers suddenly getting access to a much larger audience without much effort, just making the UI tweaks needed for particular devices. Metro is a 1.0 product, something like iOS 1.0 or Android 1.0. Even MS is unable to avoid that reality, so that means it will take time for the software to mature. As long as MS is really focused on improving it, I don't see why it can't mature and become a fine platform going forward. The desktop environment can happily remain in Windows even as Metro matures. Again, this isn't about MS trying to kill the desktop. They will keep that around as long as there is demand for it, and there is plenty of demand. DConnell 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dot Matrix Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Except it wasn't. Windows 1.0 - 3.1x were DOS based systems, before Windows 95, 98, and ME freed Windows from its reliance on the DOS sub-system. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_3.1x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulagatha Posted October 9, 2013 Author Share Posted October 9, 2013 The more I read dotmatrix's posts, the more I think this -> some people liked MS so much and was so desperate for changes to occur, they can't wait to hop onto the W8 bandwagon before even using their head to what's going on. So far the argument of change must occur from the legacy desktop to 'modern' UI is the weakest stance so far. No it doesn't add value, no old code isn't magically taken out, its transformed into something else, and no modern UI cannot accomplish or tackle some of the everyday usages of mobiles, servers or traditional mouse desktops. It was a leap of confidence that wasn't carefully enough thought out, and in the end caused W8 to be received abysmally. Are MS polishing to the Modern UI? yes. Are they doing enough to be proactive? No. Not by a long shot. They still think consumers are idiots, and adding a "start button" will magically make everyone accept the mess that is Modern UI now tacked onto the desktop mode. ideas for windows 8.2 1. start maturing quality apps. Get a team dedicated to churning out quality apps, I mean QUALITY apps. Not frames that loads a website in the metro interface, that is 90% of all Metro apps right now in the store. Most are plain ugly, filled with ads, and do not really add much 'value' as some would claim. Why would I for example snap a weather or mail metro app to a 3rd of my screen, if i can simply have a tab open in any browser which does the job better? They haven't thought about that. 2. start pushing more web programming languages for the Metro apps, open it up like firefox and Ubuntu OS are doing. 3. START FIXING BUGS THAT WERE THERE SINCE VISTA. Omg, come on. I think they should also think about combining some of these apps. It seems redundant that there is a music app, a movie app, and a games app when it could all be just one. Or a clock app, an alarm app, a calender app, when there could be just one. Atomic Wanderer Chicken and DConnell 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulagatha Posted October 9, 2013 Author Share Posted October 9, 2013 Another thing that Apple doesn't seem willing to do is "Customization." I think this is very much a strong point for Microsoft. One of my favorite things about Windows is the RegEdit file and all the various tweaks I find out about on the internet. Especially, anything that makes the File Explorer more customizable. I wish they would put a little more thought into the auto correct for misspelled words too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jollibee Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 If there's something that I really want to see if ever there's another update for Windows 8, it's the option toggle the transparency on the Taskbar. The transparent taskbar totally looks out of place compared to the opaque Windows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomic Wanderer Chicken Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 I think they should also think about combining some of these apps. It seems redundant that there is a music app, a movie app, and a games app when it could all be just one. Or a clock app, an alarm app, a calender app, when there could be just one. That's why I think Microsoft should add Windows Media Player to Windows RT as optional for those who'd like to use it. At least Microsoft didn't remove Windows Photo Viewer in RT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre S. Veteran Posted October 9, 2013 Veteran Share Posted October 9, 2013 Windows 1.0 - 3.1x were DOS based systems, before Windows 95, 98, and ME freed Windows from its reliance on the DOS sub-system. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_3.1x Yes. So I suppose you think that new Windows 8.1 features like booting to desktop, using the desktop wallpaper as start screen background, bringing back the start button, disabling charms on the desktop, and comments like this from Microsoft: "We started talking about the desktop as an app. But in reality, for PC buyers, the desktop is important." source are all indicative of Microsoft's hidden master plan to deprecate the desktop. Also Windows 8 itself having added support for multi-monitor taskbar, completely redoing the task manager, overhauling file move dialogs and many such desktop improvements are all signs that Microsoft doesn't intend to evolve this technology anymore. We must live in different worlds. In my world, Microsoft is acknowledging customer feedback that a great desktop experience remains essential to its users, and quickly acting upon it. In your world, that must be just them putting up a show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian S. Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 ... are all signs that Microsoft doesn't intend to evolve this technology anymore. Microsoft isn't dropping the desktop UI (yet) but they are depreciating it. Adding more features (like multiple desktops, proxy icons, new icons, etc) are all changes needed to be done before completely dumping the desktop UI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre S. Veteran Posted October 9, 2013 Veteran Share Posted October 9, 2013 Microsoft isn't dropping the desktop UI (yet) but they are depreciating it. Adding more features (like multiple desktops, proxy icons, new icons, etc) are all changes needed to be done before completely dumping the desktop UI. With Microsoft 8.1, my personal feeling is that Microsoft continues to de-emphasize the desktop, but Guggenheimer actually argues the opposite. In his view, Microsoft de-emphasized the desktop a bit too much when it first started talking about Windows 8. ?We tried to dial it up again a bit at Build,? he said. Today, 700,000 apps run in the Windows desktop mode and ?some of the fidelity of mouse and keyboard will never go away.? Excel spreadsheets, AutoCAD and similar tools still need these old-school input methods, after all. In Guggenheimer?s view, there is ?this weird balance between [the desktop] ending up being less critical over time, but it probably never goes away completely. Or if it does, it?s hard to predict when.? http://techcrunch.com/2013/07/14/microsofts-chief-evangelist-steven-guggenheimer-on-touch-the-desktop-and-the-future-of-imagine-cup/ DConnell and Ian W 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeRTeX Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 How about a Service Pack 2 for Windows 7? Or update the components of Windows 7 but do not add any Metro items and call it Windows 8.2 or Windows 9? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomoko Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 I would hope by that point Windows 9 will be ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blerk Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 I want more improvements in Windows Explorer (no, the desktop isn't going away). Little things that OSX has would be nice - like the ability to change the color of file names. I don't know if Finder has tabs, but I know I want tabs so that would be a nice thing to have. I'm not particularly keen on Explorer's implementation file previews either: the Quicklook feature in Finder is rather nifty, and Windows' preview function generally supports less formats out of the box, which brings me on to my next point - I want a decent clone of OSX's Preview, built in to Windows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domboy Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Also, FYI, WinRT is implemented on top of Win32, so it does not replace it: it depends on it. WinRT is not an environment subsystem ? it is a library on top of the Win32 environment subsystem. http://blogs.microso...n-windows-8.asp Well, that is fascinating to learn! Puts things is a bit different perspective... I'm not sure what the obsession is to bring desktop apps to windows rt/arm. Windows on arm is not meant to be a productivity OS. Who in their right mind is going to sit down and try to use a windows desktop app on an 8 or 10" tablet? Unfortunately that is Microsoft's problem when it comes to Windows on ARM in its current form (Windows RT). They seem to have a very short-sighted view, and treat it as limited consumer OS. But wait, they recompiled Office 2013 for ARM, and included it. Hmm, ok, so what is it? Is it a productivity OS after all? But a good chunk of the APIs are locked to Microsoft signed executables only. I don't know about you, but on my Surface RT (a 10") I very much DO use the desktop. But the Surface really isn't a tablet, it's a convertible. And I want to use it as such to its full potential. It is able to run desktop apps just fine, but the fact that I have to run a "jailbreak" (script to change the signing requirement) to do so is highly annoying. I can't speak for 8" or smaller. Honestly I don't have much use for a touch-only device bigger than a phone, as touch-only just slows things down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domboy Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Oh, and the insanely ugly color bar that replaces dialog boxes in modern ui apps needs to get thrown out... put it back to being a box. In case anybody doesn't get what I'm talking about when I say "insanely ugly color bar", it's this: What in world was Microsoft thinking!?!?! A dialog box would work just fine... why in the world does it go from one end of the screen to the other?? This has got to be the worst UI design element I've seen in a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trooper11 Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Unfortunately that is Microsoft's problem when it comes to Windows on ARM in its current form (Windows RT). They seem to have a very short-sighted view, and treat it as limited consumer OS. But wait, they recompiled Office 2013 for ARM, and included it. Hmm, ok, so what is it? Is it a productivity OS after all? But a good chunk of the APIs are locked to Microsoft signed executables only. I don't know about you, but on my Surface RT (a 10") I very much DO use the desktop. But the Surface really isn't a tablet, it's a convertible. And I want to use it as such to its full potential. It is able to run desktop apps just fine, but the fact that I have to run a "jailbreak" (script to change the signing requirement) to do so is highly annoying. I can't speak for 8" or smaller. Honestly I don't have much use for a touch-only device bigger than a phone, as touch-only just slows things down. The only reason MS pushed the desktop version of Office to Windows RT was because a metro version of the suite was not yet ready and because the app library was too small to be enough on its own to attract users. So they leaned on the only software they could: Office My personal use of Windows RT does include the desktop at times, but most of it is living in Metro. Using the desktop on a 10" screen is just uncomfortable to me and almost all desktop apps feel very unwieldy at that size. I'm just not interested in using such tablets in that way. I much prefer the metro side get better and more apps move to that market. I use the desktop when I have to, not because I want to. As far as it being 'productive' or not, I think we need to realize that productive can mean a lot of things and it may not be what you or I think it is. There are grades of productivity and yes, some people find tablets fairly productive. All that is required are enough quality apps. So yes, Windows RT on tablets can be productive, but that requires more productive apps in metro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LimeMaster Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 One feature I'd like is having the ability to change the colour of individual tiles. :) remixedcat 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remixedcat Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 I would also like to see a really good media player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DConnell Member Posted October 9, 2013 Member Share Posted October 9, 2013 I would also like to see a really good media player. VLC media player is on the way! :) TAZMINATOR and remixedcat 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remixedcat Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 VLC media player is on the way! :) I Love VLC media player! TAZMINATOR 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neufuse Veteran Posted October 9, 2013 Veteran Share Posted October 9, 2013 I heard 8.2 is a complete revert to windows 95..... but then in reality there more then likely wont be an 8.2 they probably will go to 9 so the 8.2 95 idea makes tons of sense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domboy Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 The only reason MS pushed the desktop version of Office to Windows RT was because a metro version of the suite was not yet ready and because the app library was too small to be enough on its own to attract users. So they leaned on the only software they could: Office Um, and you you know this how? So what's the reason they pushed the desktop Outlook RT client to RT ? Maybe it was um, well because customers requested it, and the "modern" mail app isn't nearly as good? Ever thought that perhaps Office makes sense as a desktop application, even in RT? I would/will keep using desktop Office RT even if a modern ui version shows up, because well, to me it makes perfect sense as a desktop app. When I'm using office I'm using the keyboard and trackpad anyway, and am probably going to be doing other things on the desktop too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trooper11 Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Um, and you you know this how? So what's the reason they pushed the desktop Outlook RT client to RT ? Maybe it was um, well because customers requested it, and the "modern" mail app isn't nearly as good? Ever thought that perhaps Office makes sense as a desktop application, even in RT? I would/will keep using desktop Office RT even if a modern ui version shows up, because well, to me it makes perfect sense as a desktop app. When I'm using office I'm using the keyboard and trackpad anyway, and am probably going to be doing other things on the desktop too. I know this because MS have said themselves that they wanted to have a Metro style Office Suite, but it simply was not ready. The reason they pushed out Outlook RT was just as you said, demand for it. That doesn't change the fact that they will have a complete office suite for Metro next year, one that should include Outlook. I'm not sure how we can disregard a metro version of Office when we haven't even seen it. All I said was that if a metro version had been ready, they would have pushed that instead of a desktop version that just leads to some confusion for the end user. Just because you assume that the Office team cannot create a robust version of Office that works within Metro doesn't mean it cant be done. Just because this is a metro version does not mean it wont continue to work with a keyboard and mouse. Plus, lets remember that most consumers will not be using a keyboard with an 8" or 10" tablet. For those of us that prefer the desktop version, there will always be Win 8 based tablets. Just do your homework when buying the tablet that fits your needs. Win RT is focused on tablets under 11" in size and for most users, its better to get everything moved to Metro so that you don't have to fiddle with the desktop via touch. So if you want a desktop version of Office on a tablet, just avoid an RT model. Maybe you see the Metro version and decide it wasn't as bad as you thought it would be or maybe MS keeps offering both versions on RT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkydcmpr Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 They could use this as optional start screen theme: Sir, your Outlook is out of date, here is the latest version: LimeMaster 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmdci Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 Personally, I don't think we'll see a 8.2, I think Windows 9 will be up next, but that's just an opinion. :) Who knows. maybe we will see 8.1.1 for Workgroups... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts