Linux vs Windows


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Max Norris

I've always loved KDE though at least with Linux there is plenty of choice, which does make a welcome change from the new Microsoft and their "Do as we dictate or get lost" approach.

Well to be fair, you can change shells on Windows too. Just nobody apparently put in the effort to do a good alternative.. plenty of mediocre ones out there though. KDE kinda sorta is a doable Windows shell, needs a lot of work yet though, you can make it the Windows 8 shell and never even see Metro if you wanted to. Personally I prefer having a consistent set of "guts" under the hood though, a hell of a lot less issues and inconsistencies to deal with. For example, one sound system and GUI toolkit is plenty for me, don't need a dozen of them. Makes developing for it a lot easier too.
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Dot Matrix

People waiting for Photoshop for Linux are fooling themselves. Let's face it, you'll never see big name apps there for a multitude of reasons. One being marketshare, another being how much of a mess Linux is between distros. Support for that would be a nightmare, putting it kindly.

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Noir Angel

Seems Valve are perfectly capable of managing it, and given games are pretty complex if they can port their software so can others.

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+Red King

For development I doubt any OS has the equivalent of Visual Studio 2012/3.

Microsoft made such a great contribution to Windows with .NET, C#/C++, and Visual Studio.

It is murderously easy to make a simply application. .NET has so many goodies within it, Microsoft scores big points for making it.

And considering that C# doesn't officially exist on other platforms, that is way less development power to those that have anti-Windows sentiments.

 

As for updates, for workplace environment, people make images with updates already installed and mass deploy them and / or make install disks with all the updates incorporated.

For home environment, you set updates to manual and apply them once a month or so. Also it doesn't take long at all for me. Took 2 seconds for 2 updates...

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Yogurtmaster

Linux was designed to be the anti-windows. I applaud Torvalds for having created Linux in a way that now we can all use it. whether you like it or not, Linux gives people a choice, it is free, easy to upgrade and is now becoming an OS that game companies are embracing

Wrong. Linux was made to be like Unix and BSD. It's not about being designed to be anti-windows.

Come on man, get it together.

I want another choice besides Linux/BSD, Windows, and Mac. One thing I don't like about Linux is that

there isn't a lot of high quality software for it than I can't already run on Windows. Multimedia support is lacking as well.

Most of the distros are the same, they just change a few things here and there and call it a brand new distro.

Some of the distros are unique sure, but they are in the minority.

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Mindovermaster

Seems Valve are perfectly capable of managing it, and given games are pretty complex if they can port their software so can others.

 

Yes, but AFAIK, you can only run Linux Steam on Ubuntu or Debian. Good luck trying to get that on Arch.

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Max Norris

Yes, but AFAIK, you can only run Linux Steam on Ubuntu or Debian. Good luck trying to get that on Arch.

Officially. It is in the Arch community repos though. I can't comment on it's stability or performance, I use Arch but I don't care for or about Steam, never tried it. But yea, per the wiki it's got some extra steps/gotchas to worry about that go beyond the official bug list, and it wouldn't surprise me if there's distros out there that won't run it properly or at all. I don't speak from experience but I'd bet It's probably super tough to support a gazillion distros when you're not dealing with a source distribution of your software.

https://www.archlinux.org/packages/?name=steam

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Steam

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Growled

Yes, because compiling a C++ app with custom portable GUI libraries is so difficult on Linux... no, wait, it's not.

 

I even remember a thread in adobe's forums by people petitioning for a linux version of ps cs5. One of the programmers posted and said that while he cannot disclose the reasons a PS of linux is a matter of modifying some code just a little, modify the target of the custon gui libraries and recompile. Hardly a thousand dollars job.

Adobe is in league with Microsoft to hinder Linux and even OSX to some extent. Adobe's day is coming too. I read all the time where many professional graphic artists are now using Inkscape more and more and Illustrator less and less. And let's not forget how many are upset over this subscription mess. 

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Max Norris

Adobe is in league with Microsoft to hinder Linux and even OSX to some extent. Adobe's day is coming too. I read all the time where many professional graphic artists are now using Inkscape more and more and Illustrator less and less. And let's not forget how many are upset over this subscription mess.

Not sure about including OSX in that, Adobe's been selling to Apple users since the beginning.. Illustrator and Photoshop for Windows didn't come around until a few years later, the "Windows can't do media" thing from way back when. No argument about them beating up on Linux though.. want to weed out the competition as much as you can, business 101.

Regardless though the problem with that is Inkscape is available for everything, there's no real incentive to switch to a different OS. At best you're just sticking it to Adobe. At this particular moment in time anyway, with very very few exceptions, pretty much everything runs on Windows, proprietary or open source, but only a handful of the same products run natively on Linux without help. Just for me anyway, after messing with both Windows and Linux since day 1 for both, the only thing in the Linux world that I really wish I had on a Windows box (original or workalike) is Phusion Passenger for when the need comes up. (Yes, I know about Thin and all that, not the same thing.) That's pretty much it.. everything else has a native Windows port or a "just as good or better" workalike. Linux needs something that only they have that they can offer that's a compelling reason to switch besides ideological or FUD reasons. I'm not sure what exactly but they need something besides "it's free" and "we got wobbly windows."

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sanctified

look when it comes down to it most of us would not even be using computers without microsoft, they brought computers to the main stream and made it easy for people to use, so at the end of the day that is why Windows is better, it just works.  Linux is great, but if anything goes wrong your fecked.....

 

Wrong.

 

IBM brought computers to the main stream. Apple and Commodore made them easy to use. Unix made them robust.

 

Billy stole DOS and and ran away with it.

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Growled

Linux needs something that only they have that they can offer that's a compelling reason to switch besides ideological or FUD reasons. I'm not sure what exactly but they need something besides "it's free" and "we got wobbly windows."

How about it's almost virus free and it doesn't have a NSA backdoor built in?

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Max Norris

Billy stole DOS and and ran away with it.

Wonder what things would be like if Microsoft Xenix (Unix) was still around. Used to run that way back when.. would be a much different world nowadays.

 

How about it's almost virus free and it doesn't have a NSA backdoor built in?

Almost just because of small user base, it's definitely not immune as that's impossible, it can get malware and rootkits just as much as any other OS, and has a loooong history of being exploited on the server end due to the various services. If I can trick a user into doing something they shouldn't, I can trash their system. Just like any other OS. The NSA backdoor thing is FUD. Real reasons please.
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sanctified

Wonder what things would be like if Microsoft Xenix (Unix) was still around. Used to run that way back when.. would be a much different world nowadays.

Indeed. Xenix was intriguing and Basic was a cornerstone. Portability was the game back then and MS played it well. I dont know why Gates had to employ such dirty tachtics in the 15 years to come. MS was in good shape and was respected.

 

The NSA backdoor thing is FUD. Real reasons please.

In all honesty man I dont know why you consider it FUD. The evidence is fairly convincing, some of the companies involved have already come clean about it and the US never really denied anything.

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Max Norris

Indeed. Xenix was intriguing and Basic was a cornerstone. Portability was the game back then and MS played it well. I dont know why Gates had to employ such dirty tachtics in the 15 years to come. MS was in good shape and was respected.

No arguments there, Microsoft has done some colossal dick moves over the years.  I like to (optimistically but possibly unrealistically) think they've gone past that. Still doing underhanded stuff sure, a lot of companies do, but at least it's legal now.

 

In all honesty man I dont know why you consider it FUD. The evidence is fairly convincing, some of the companies involved have already come clean about it and the US never really denied anything.

I've read plenty of theories, but read a bunch of just as plausible explanations too, never mind even if it were real, it's not a backdoor into the OS.. they couldn't just hit your system and take it over, big secret back door gets stopped by a $25 router, never mind packet sniffers, etc.. it would be noticed.
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Yogurtmaster

Yes, but AFAIK, you can only run Linux Steam on Ubuntu or Debian. Good luck trying to get that on Arch.

Well, I couldn't install Arch and I didn't want to take the time either. Ubuntu is just as easy as installing Windows. Can someone tell me what is the big deal about Arch Linux?

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Ambroos

The NSA backdoor stuff is ridiculous, you can perfectly log all network traffic with Wireshark, and if there was any shady communication being done by Windows it would have been known ages ago.

 

I properly used Linux as my main OS the past month at work. I did some web development for a CERT (Computer Emergency Response Team) and Windows machines aren't allowed on their network for security concerns (they do a lot of malware testing and analysis). I got to choose my own distro and went with Elementary OS. To be honest, I loved it. I was incredibly productive. All the repositories make it an absolute breeze to install and update pretty much anything. Especially when you're dealing with a lot of servers you need to run yourself this is simply a godsend.

 

Elementary is pretty amazing in terms of UI too. It looks awesome, is really fast and once you have a workflow and know the shortcuts it's extremely intuitive. And nice thing is that it's based on Ubuntu 12.04 LTS, so everything that works there (= everything) works in Elementary too.

 

Surprising thing: Office 2010 worked pretty flawless in Wine. Powerpoint was a bit slow since I didn't bother installing OpenGL drivers for Wine, but Word and Excel worked perfectly.

 

If I could run Lightroom without any issues on Linux I'd make the switch. It's the only piece of software that isn't available (or has alternatives) for Linux and it's something I really, really need. I think my next PC will be a Mac. I got so used to doing some things command-line I find myself typing ls, cat, nano, grep, ... all the time now on my Windows install.

 

My setup at work with Word:

DpExTSv.png

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Max Norris

Well, I couldn't install Arch and I didn't want to take the time either. Ubuntu is just as easy as installing Windows. Can someone tell me what is the big deal about Arch Linux?

For me, it's "building up" versus "tearing down." I'm not a fan of everything-and-the-kitchen-sink distros. Kinda sorta like doing Gentoo or LFS, but without the compiling. Shares a few similarities with BSD and Gentoo, a ports-like system for example. Also doesn't do the six-month upgrade cycle either.. install it once and done, perpetually updating itself. But that has risks too, read the site before upgrading something in the core OS.. breakage has occurred before, sometimes critically to where you're unable to boot, but it's typically because somebody wasn't reading the notes beforehand. Personally can't recommend it to the "just want to install and go" type tho, better options for that.

 

Surprising thing: Office 2010 worked pretty flawless in Wine. Powerpoint was a bit slow since I didn't bother installing OpenGL drivers for Wine, but Word and Excel worked perfectly.

Neat.. haven't tried it in a long time, 2010 failed miserably back then. Good to know, really don't care for Libre/OO.
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sanctified

No arguments there, Microsoft has done some colossal dick moves over the years.  I like to (optimistically but possibly unrealistically) think they've gone past that. Still doing underhanded stuff sure, a lot of companies do, but at least it's legal now.

 

They've gone past that. But it is easy to get past that kind of stuff once you've secured the #1 position.

 

For many of us who used stuff from GEOS, Risc OS, O/S 2 and dreamt about the possibilities can never really forgive microsoft.

 

I still remember the Compaq fiasco where MS threatened a young and thriving Compaq to stop licensing Windows to them if they included Netscape along IE.

Can someone tell me what is the big deal about Arch Linux?

 

Total control about your system condition and rolling releases.

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Dot Matrix

How about it's almost virus free and it doesn't have a NSA backdoor built in?

 

Care to have a source for that that isn't link bait? Any actual code?

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123456789A

The NSA backdoor stuff is ridiculous, you can perfectly log all network traffic with Wireshark, and if there was any shady communication being done by Windows it would have been known ages ago.

 

I properly used Linux as my main OS the past month at work. I did some web development for a CERT (Computer Emergency Response Team) and Windows machines aren't allowed on their network for security concerns (they do a lot of malware testing and analysis). I got to choose my own distro and went with Elementary OS. To be honest, I loved it. I was incredibly productive. All the repositories make it an absolute breeze to install and update pretty much anything. Especially when you're dealing with a lot of servers you need to run yourself this is simply a godsend.

 

Elementary is pretty amazing in terms of UI too. It looks awesome, is really fast and once you have a workflow and know the shortcuts it's extremely intuitive. And nice thing is that it's based on Ubuntu 12.04 LTS, so everything that works there (= everything) works in Elementary too.

 

Surprising thing: Office 2010 worked pretty flawless in Wine. Powerpoint was a bit slow since I didn't bother installing OpenGL drivers for Wine, but Word and Excel worked perfectly.

 

If I could run Lightroom without any issues on Linux I'd make the switch. It's the only piece of software that isn't available (or has alternatives) for Linux and it's something I really, really need. I think my next PC will be a Mac. I got so used to doing some things command-line I find myself typing ls, cat, nano, grep, ... all the time now on my Windows install.

 

My setup at work with Word:

DpExTSv.png

 

That interface is jarring.

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Ambroos

Native stuff looks a lot better ofc. Screenshot below for example, and not even that really is 100% 'native' since Chrome uses a lot of non-standard UI stuff.

 

a673Iu9.png

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Yogurtmaster

That interface is jarring.

Oh, I love the Ribbon Interface. So much better than those 1990's interfaces that you can't find anything. It's so easy on the eyes and so easy on productivity.

I would rather pay $200 for Office than use that free garbage of Libre Office. See, here is one thing that FOSS advocates can't understand, just because it's free doesn't mean it's quality.

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sanctified

Oh, I love the Ribbon Interface. So much better than those 1990's interfaces that you can't find anything. It's so easy on the eyes and so easy on productivity.

I would rather pay $200 for Office than use that free garbage of Libre Office. See, here is one thing that FOSS advocates can't understand, just because it's free doesn't mean it's quality.

 

No FOSS advocate measures quality in the interface level. Also, you are misunderstanding our meaning of 'free'.

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Max Norris

Yea, you can't judge a program by its price or license. I know of plenty of open source products (both Windows and Linux) that are stellar, interface or otherwise, and I can think of plenty of commercial ones that are just terrible and/or look like ass.

That said, I'm definitely not one of the fans of Libre/OO, mostly from a feature, compatibility and usability perspective. (Can pry Outlook out of my cold, dead hands.) I'm in the "rather pay for Office" camp on this example. If Microsoft ever decided to build a quality Linux port of Office I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

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Yogurtmaster

No FOSS advocate measures quality in the interface level. Also, you are misunderstanding our meaning of 'free'.

Free as in speech is irrelevant in this case because the developers that create these programs and the freedom of doing so doesn't improve the UI at all.

UI is HUGE. Sorry, guys MS Office is superior in almost every way to that of Libre Office, it's not even a contest and honestly even beyond UI, I just don't feel that developers have the level of talent of a huge group of dedicated people that get paid for their work and have dedicated resources for production and testing that FOSS developers have. Microsoft over time has learned that because of instability and because of security they need code reviews and that is simply not done in FOSS.

Don't get me wrong, I am not Anti-FOSS. I just don't think it is magically better than paid software with resources, proper development tools and testing.

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