Linux vs Windows


Recommended Posts

adrynalyne

No one in this thread thinks that the majority of users use ubuntu or linux. When someone says that an "average" user can (and some do) use ubuntu, what they are obviously referring to is user-friendliness, not that most users use ubuntu...

 

You are being extremely pedantic, which I think is why people misunderstood you.

 

If you state something extremely obvious, then one might think you mean something else, because they assume that you wouldn't go around saying something so obvious xD.

 

 

...what?

 

How would anyone infer that? LOL.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Som

So, you're saying that before Windows the average person did not have a computer? This is what you're saying?

dunno why so aggressive, but ya before windows the average person probably thought a computer was something this, remember we're talking about the 80s , only enthusiasts or  rich people would have had computers then.... 

 

just outta curiosity what was your first os? mine was dos.  Over the years I've used nearly all of them at some point.  

 

All I was trying to say was in the history of modern computers, Windows vs Linux, windows wins because it brought computers to the mainstream.  Linux's popularity existed because people had windows computers and they could pop linux on it for free.  Over time linux has become more user friendly so if you where to compare Linux vs Windows in 2013 it would probably be a stalemate.   The reality is Windows, while it may not be free, the end user rarely pays for it as it comes with a new computer, the amount it costs the manufacturer is minimal and doesn't reflect the overall price of the computer. Either OS when working are great, both have plenty of free software too.  But I think what lets linux down overall is the end support.  Every error for Windows is catalogued and has resolution in some form while in Linux that usually isn't the case

 

Both are great! :)

Link to post
Share on other sites
ViperAFK

...what?

 

How would anyone infer that? LOL.

Because it is obvious, how would anyone infer anything different? You really think we're are deluded enough to think that most desktop users are using linux? You are being ridiculous.

Link to post
Share on other sites
adrynalyne

Because it is obvious

 

Not even remotely.

Link to post
Share on other sites
sanctified

dunno why so aggressive, but ya before windows the average person probably thought a computer was something this, remember we're talking about the 80s , only enthusiasts or  rich people would have had computers then.... 

 

just outta curiosity what was your first os? mine was dos.  Over the years I've used nearly all of them at some point.  

 

All I was trying to say was in the history of modern computers, Windows vs Linux, windows wins because it brought computers to the mainstream.  Linux's popularity existed because people had windows computers and they could pop linux on it for free.  Over time linux has become more user friendly so if you where to compare Linux vs Windows in 2013 it would probably be a stalemate.   The reality is Windows, while it may not be free, the end user rarely pays for it as it comes with a new computer, the amount it costs the manufacturer is minimal and doesn't reflect the overall price of the computer. Either OS when working are great, both have plenty of free software too.  But I think what lets linux down overall is the end support.  Every error for Windows is catalogued and has resolution in some form while in Linux that usually isn't the case

 

Both are great! :)

 

Somehow I suspect you never used a computer in the 80's. The image you have linked is a proof of that.

 

WAY before Windows we used CHEAP, SMALL and COMMON computers like the Commodore, the Lisa, the Atari, etc.

 

My first OS was the Atari gOS.

 

The idea that Windows brought computers to the mainstream is one of the most ridiculous, ignorant and annoying things I've ever heard. Go a read how many computers Commodore sold.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Max Norris

Yes, I deny that. MILLIONS of very average users were already using Commodore 64 -to this date the best selling computer of all time-.

Heh yea, there were a gazillion of those things back in the day. My neighbor would show his off to me and point out his "excellent" graphics (for the time) even had sound, meanwhile laughing at my poor text based Model 16. They sold a crazy number of them, especially considering the timeframe where the consensus was that you had to be a rocket scientist to use a computer.
Link to post
Share on other sites
sanctified

Heh yea, there were a gazillion of those things back in the day. My neighbor would show his off to me and point out his "excellent" graphics (for the time), meanwhile laughing at my poor text based Model 16. They sold a crazy number of them, especially considering the timeframe where the consensus was that you had to be a rocket scientist to use a computer.

 

Im sure your neighbor tricked you, small, affordable computers NEVER existed before Windows, didnt you know? ;)

Link to post
Share on other sites
adrynalyne

Yes, I deny that.

 

MILLIONS of very average users were already using Commodore 64 -to this date the best selling computer of all time-.

Fair enough.

 

I didn't start using computers until the early 90s.

Link to post
Share on other sites
sanctified

Fair enough.

 

I didn't start using computers until the early 90s.

 

Hence why I dont know what and why you're arguing so heatly and assuredly about something you never experienced.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Max Norris

Im sure your neighbor tricked you, small, affordable computers NEVER existed before Windows, didnt you know? ;)

Don't forget the Atari's too.. not quite as many buy still very popular. Not me though.. who's got two thumbs and spent $1100 on a 5MB hard drive the size of a small refrigerator? *this* guy. I should have waited a couple of years before getting into computers. Got really interesting in the 80's. The late 70's were expensive.
Link to post
Share on other sites
sanctified

Don't forget the Atari's too.. not quite as many buy still very popular. Not me though.. who's got two thumbs and spent $1100 on a 5MB hard drive the size of a small refrigerator? *this* guy. I should have waited a couple of years before getting into computers. Got really interesting in the 80's.

 

An Atari was my first computer. Long live the green desktop.

Link to post
Share on other sites
adrynalyne

Hence why I dont know what and why you're arguing so heatly and assuredly about something you never experienced.

I didn't.  I am not the one who made that original statement, but look overall on how many computers use Windows now, vs. how many commodores were sold, total.  It isn't even close and hasn't been for many years.

 

If nobody liked Windows, it wouldn't have moved into the monopolistic state it is in now.

Link to post
Share on other sites
sanctified

That wasn't my statement, big guy.

 

The first line wasnt directed at you. It was for the other fella who thinks we were using ENIACS in the 80s :)

Link to post
Share on other sites
adrynalyne

The first line wasnt directed at you. It was for the other fella who thinks we were using ENIACS in the 80s :)

Erm, you quoted me...

Link to post
Share on other sites
Som

would ya believe I did, but I was a late bloomer (my parents where broke).... you still completely missing my point and for some reason getting angrier.  I'm talking about the average user here, not you, not me and not most people on this forum, .... the average user, the facebook, iphone samsung galaxy sIII who use their computers to log on the internet and not much more.  For them  why would they even want a computer.  Most average people (and remember not you) starting using computers in the late 90s, when the internet took off, when computers became affordable and the OS was Windows, not because they chose it but because it was there.  Walk up to someone who knows nothing about a computer and ask them what linux is....

 

also if what I said is the most ridiculous ignorant things you've ever heard you've led a very sheltered life and I envy you..... :P

Somehow I suspect you never used a computer in the 80's. The image you have linked is a proof of that.

 

WAY before Windows we used CHEAP, SMALL and COMMON computers like the Commodore, the Lisa, the Atari, etc.

 

My first OS was the Atari gOS.

 

The idea that Windows brought computers to the mainstream is one of the most ridiculous, ignorant and annoying things I've ever heard. Go a read how many computers Commodore sold.

Link to post
Share on other sites
sanctified

I didn't.  I am not the one who made that original statement, but look overall on how many computers use Windows now, vs. how many commodores were sold, total.  It isn't even close and hasn't been for many years.

 

If nobody liked Windows, it wouldn't have moved into the monopolistic state it is in now.

 

You cant compare numbers as the users that have a computer now is very different as in the 80s.

 

The growth of Windows has never been a matter of public predilection.

 

Microsoft strong armed the computer industry in the late 80s and all of the 90s to use their software. There were other and better options with just as good hardware support, like IBM's O/S2 (The system that Microsoft stole to make Windows NT).

 

Allow me to explain how this strong arming operated:

 

- In the 80s MS refused to give support to computers who wanted to include an alternative dev environment along BASIC. Nobody ever asked them to support the alternative, just to respect their support for BASIC. MS never yielded.

 

- In the 80s Gates plainly stole code from Gary Kildall's CP/M to make DOS, fragmenting an already stable base platform.

 

- In the 90s Gates used the money gained by this steal to close anti-competitive deals with many hardware companies that forbade them to support the installation of other operative system or even alternative shells for Windows 3.1

 

- In the 90s MS actively threatened companies that they will stop licensing Windows to them if they installed or offered means to install software that directly competed with MS's. Specially Netscape.

 

- In the 90s happened the IS Server fiasco. MS offered this server software for a low price to companies. The caveat was that no client software not named windows, outlook and internet explorer could interface with it. No other server software do this. Cutting up the competition.

 

By the time the US reacted and tried to sue and control MS it was too late. The industry dependency of MS was too strong to go back.

Erm, you quoted me...

 

Yeah, if you look again you'll see I'm talking to someone else in that first line.

also if what I said is the most ridiculous ignorant things you've ever heard you've led a very sheltered life and I envy you..... :p

 

It was a knee jerk reaction on my part, I agree and apologize. However this is a serious topic for me since part of my work relates to software ethics. It kinda get on my nerves that MS can dictate the history since they won it... with dirty tactics. Take a look at my previous post to a very summarized events log of what happened.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Growled

In this particular conversation, average can be replaced with the word typical.  Typical is going to be what the norm is.  The norm is windows-based PCs.  That is because of a near monopoly, true.  However, I was never discussing the cause of it.  I certainly never mentioned user friendliness anywhere.

Yes, it seems some problems are being caused by semantics. I'd say the majority of users are Windows users myself. Saying average and typical seems to present problems since we all have our own definitions of average and typical.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Kryspy

One word..... registry..... HUH...... Seriously what year is it?

 

Kryspy

Link to post
Share on other sites
+Red King

One word..... registry..... HUH...... Seriously what year is it?

 

Kryspy

Good point, one of the best Windows features.

Linux still doesn't have something like it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Growled

Good point, one of the best Windows features.

Linux still doesn't have something like it.

And one of Windows bad points as well. I prefer the Linux way myself.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Yogurtmaster

I am not going to compare Linux to Windows.  It's not a fair comparison to both.

 

Instead I am going to offer some ideas that I think that can make a distro of Linux better.  I would never spend money on this because it's not my passion, my passion is mobile/data MVNO type stuff and video games.

 

1) Find some UI guys for the OS. The UI for almost every distro of Linux is like living in the 1990's.  It either tries to be too Windows 95ish or MacOSish.  Yeah, there is Unity and also Gnome 3, but they are either too cumbersome or too complex.

2) Stop trying to do everything from the command line.  In a modern OS a command line should be optional.  If you want to run scripts you can use a beautiful 21st century IDE with full debugging abilities and quick type functions so you get work done faster. :) wooo hooo!

3) Improve the UI and Applications, maybe even instead of using a dumb windows application layer like Wine (which is silly) maybe have an emulation layer that runs Android apps.

4) Include state-of-the-art touch abilities, sensor abilities, voice recognition abilities, face recognition, text-to-speech and speech-to-text abilities (with easy to use API's) and I mean quality here.

5) Focus on real 21st century multimedia apps with real good API support from scratch

6) Introduce really quality fonts.  Imagine being able to read articles in a nice eye pleasing font, it makes all of the difference in the world.

 

You don't have to try to make Linux look and feel like Windows or Macos, but you should try to evolve the platform.  I think Linux is great if you want to run some sort of server for Apache/PHP/MySQL and also for Asterisk/FreePBX stuff and also for protection while you are on the Internets ;-p , but to be honest Linux isn't really a good desktop, tablet, or smartphone OS.

 

My final words to Linux programmers is "Stop living in the 1990's and Start evolving towards modern computing."

 

If FOSS is going to be a thing, then evolve the concept of the code and UI and stop trying to re-invent the wheel every time

and do what you do best and not try to make a millionth distro because you learned how to compile code.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Tuishimi

People get so defensive about what operating system they use/prefer. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Mindovermaster

Yogurt, all that you are talking about costs money, close to $1Million. Money is something they do not have in surplus, unlike MS or OSX. They just don't have the time, commitment, money nor the care.

 

If you think it smells like dog crap, go ahead, use Windows. We'll keep using Linux, because that is what we know and love.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Yogurtmaster

People get so defensive about what operating system they use/prefer. 

 

I don't really care about that.   I just have some reservations about this magic freedom that FOSS is all about.

 

There are a lot of assumptions made...

 

1) That you can even can or want to compile code

2) That you can add anything of value to the code

3) The code that you can add might have been done by someone else and you just re-invented the wheel

4) Without some checks and balances like code reviews things can break or be unsecure

5) A lot of people working on FOSS projects don't work together and form a goal, that is why there are so many distros and forks

6) A lot of people working on FOSS projects quit for one reason or the other, less time or arguments or whatever.

7) Paying people can a lot of times (not all of the times) with standards output better code (this may not be consistent, true, but it's more often true than not true).

 

   I used to love FOSS more than I do now.   However, working in an environment with standard coding tools and standard techniques I can now see that it's not the dream that a lot of people think it is.

I am not trying to be a Debbie downer here.  Trying to take unrealistic expectations and tame them. 

 

  I once wanted to buy a BBS (Bulletin Board System) for Atari computer (130XE) called Carina II.  This was in the old days before the Internet.  My plan was to use FOSS and give it away to make better stuff.

Of course someone out bid me and you can download it free today if you search the Internet.   However, I have changed a lot.

 

  So, to kind of make this short and sweet.  I still like FOSS and I think it can do some good things, but some people treat FOSS unrealistically.  Just because you have the freedom to use code, doesn't mean it's going to turn out the way that you think it will.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Yogurtmaster

Yogurt, all that you are talking about costs money, close to $1Million. Money is something they do not have in surplus, unlike MS or OSX. They just don't have the time, commitment, money nor the care.

 

If you think it smells like dog crap, go ahead, use Windows. We'll keep using Linux, because that is what we know and love.

 

  That is my point.  In a lot of cases (not all), you can make a better product with money.  Not only are you helping people feed themselves and their families, you are also building something that can be higher quality.  If you get someone that knows how to build the correct environment and testing environment and having "code reviews" for security.  Having resources + Proper coding procedures + Money = Win for everyone.

 

  Remember, that FOSS says that your code can be more secure because there are more eyes looking at the code, but unfortunately that is a myth.  The reason is that many people can look through code and not know either what they are looking for or they can miss something like you did.  They can find some things if it's obvious, but code a lot of times isn't easy to follow in the first place. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By zikalify
      Tails OS 4.15 released with updated Tor Browser
      by Paul Hill



      Tails OS 4.15 has been released today bringing with it updates for the Tor Browser, the Linux kernel and fixes for several issues including USB tethering not working with devices running iOS 14 or later. Luckily, there are no new issues introduced with this version of the privacy-oriented OS but it’s still affected by long-standing issues.

      According to the release notes, there are no new major changes in this update outside of updated software. The only new feature is that you now have the option to press “Don’t Show Again’ on the security notification that pops up when you attempt to run Tails on a virtual machine.

      This update does come with several critical software patches for things like the Tor Browser which is now on version 10.0.9 (based on Firefox 78.7), Thunderbird has been bumped to 78.6.0, and the Linux kernel now sits on version 5.9.15 bringing support for newer hardware. The new kernel update also addresses a bug that prevented iOS 14 devices from being used for tethering.

      To install Tails 4.15, you’ll either need to follow the guide to setting up a Tails USB to perform a clean install or you can upgrade an existing Tails install. When you’ve booted up your Tails 4.2 or above USB and connected to the internet, you will be offered the upgrade. If you choose to update, the new version will download and begin to install. If you would like to see what’s planned in future updates, check out the Tails roadmap.

    • By zikalify
      Linux Mint 20.1 ISOs have been approved for release [Update]
      by Paul Hill



      Following the beta release of Linux Mint 20.1 in mid-December, the stable release has been finalised and approved for release according to the Linux Mint website. While approved, the Linux Mint project has not yet published a blog post about the release or the ISOs but they are expected imminently.

      For those already running Linux Mint 20, the upgrade will be made available via the Update Manager but upgrading won’t be necessary if you’re happy with your existing setup. Like Linux Mint 20, Linux Mint 20.1 will receive security updates until 2025 as they’re both based on Ubuntu 20.04 LTS, however, it will come with desktop improvements and new apps developed by the Linux Mint project.

      Some of the new apps that will be available include Web Apps which lets your turn your favourite sites into web apps accessible from the app menu and an IPTV program called Hypnotix that’ll come pre-loaded with several freely available channels. For Chromium fans, the Mint team has decided to begin compiling the browser itself without a dependence on Ubuntu’s Snap packaging software.

      In a blog post from the end of December, Linux Mint’s head Clem Lefebvre said that there were still some issues that they wanted to work out before the release and couldn’t give an exact release date. Linux Mint is not known for giving exact release dates so there’s nothing out of the ordinary this time around. In the post, Lefebvre also stated that the team was considering an extra ISO image with the Linux 5.8 kernel to address some AMD Ryzen 5 and Ryzen 7 issues but this extra ISO has not yet shown up on the Mint website.

      Update: Linux Mint 20.1 has now been released and can be downloaded from linuxmint.com.

    • By News Staff
      Save 95% off this Complete Computer Networking eBook & Video Course Bundle
      by Steven Parker

      Today's highlighted deal comes via our Online Courses section of the Neowin Deals store where you can save 95% off this Complete Computer Networking eBook & Video Course Bundle. Attain systems efficiency & security with 14+ hours of video content and 5 comprehensive e books on DevOps, Programming, AWS, CCNA, and more.



      This bundle consists of the following courses:

      The Ultimate Kubernetes Bootcamp by School of Devops [Video]
      Prepare for the CKA Exam — Master Container Orchestration with Kubernetes One Step at a Time AWS Certified Advanced Networking: Specialty Exam Guide [eBook]
      Build Your Knowledge & Technical Expertise as an AWS-Certified Networking Specialist Hands-On Network Programming with C [eBook]
      Learn Socket Programming in C & Write Secure and Optimized Network Codes Analyzing Network Traffic with Wireshark 2.6 [Video]
      Delve Into Network Traffic & Analyze Individual Protocol Data Units Active Directory Administration Cookbook [eBook]
      Actionable, Proven Solutions to Identity Management & Authentication on Servers and in the Cloud Hands-On PowerShell for Active Directory [Video]
      Use PowerShell for Active Directory to Eliminate Manual Labor with Quick Automation Tasks & Functions Effective Jenkins: Getting Started with Continuous Integration [Video]
      Learn Continuous Integration, Automate Your Jenkins Projects & Get Continuous Feedback for Your Upstream/Downstream Projects Hands-On Kubernetes Networking [Video]
      Unravel the Mystery of Networking in Your Kubernetes Cluster in a Pragmatic Manner CCNA Cyber Ops SECOPS: Certification Guide 210-255 [eBook]
      Develop Your Cybersecurity Knowledge to Obtain CyberOps Certification Hands-On Linux for Architects [eBook]
      Design & Implement Linux-Based IT Solutions Good to know
      Updates included Length of time users can access after purchase: lifetime Redemption deadline: redeem your code within 30 days of purchase For a full description, specs, and author info please click here.

      Here's the deal:
      This Complete Computer Networking eBook & Video Course Bundle normally costs* $746 but it can be yours for just $29.99 for a limited time, that's a saving of $716.01 (95%) off the price.

      >> Get this deal, or learn more about it here <<
      See all Online Courses on offer. This is a time limited deal.
      Get $1 credit for every $25 spent · Give $10, Get $10 · 10% off for first-time buyers.

      Not for you?
      If this offer doesn't interest you, why not check out the following offers:



      The Win Your Dream 2020 Tesla Model 3 Giveaway Ivacy VPN - 5 year subscription for just $0.99 per month NordVPN - 2 year subscription at up to 68% off +3 months for free! Private Internet Access VPN - subscriptions at up to 71% off Unlocator VPN or SmartDNS - unblock Geoblock with 7-day free trial Subscribe to Neowin - for $14 a year, or $28 a year for Ad-Free experience Disable Sponsored posts · Neowin Deals · Free eBooks · Neowin Store

      Disclosure: This is a StackCommerce deal or giveaway in partnership with Neowin; an account at StackCommerce is required to participate in any deals or giveaways. For a full description of StackCommerce's privacy guidelines, go here. Neowin benefits from shared revenue of each sale made through our branded deals site, and it all goes toward the running costs.

    • By News Staff
      Pay What You Want for this Complete Linux eBook Bundle
      by Steven Parker

      Today's highlighted offer comes via our Online Courses section of the Neowin Deals store, where for a limited time you can Pay What You Want for the Complete Linux eBook Bundle. The 4-book guide to programming more powerfully and efficiently with Linux.



      How does it work?
      With the Pay What You Want bundles, you can get something incredible for as little as you want to pay. And if you beat the average price, you’ll receive the fully upgraded bundle! Included in this Pay What You Want deal, are the following courses:

      Pay What You Want (as little as $1) for the unlocked eBook:

      Mastering Embedded Linux Programming, Second Edition
      Master the Techniques Needed to Build Great, Efficient Embedded Devices On Linux

      ... and unlock the following eBooks with a bid over the average price:

      Mastering Linux Security & Hardening
      A Comprehensive Guide to Preventing Your Linux System From Getting Compromised

      Linux Shell Scripting Cookbook, Third Edition
      Do Amazing Things with the Linux Shell

      Mastering Linux Shell Scripting, Second Edition
      Master the Complexities of Bash Shell Scripting

      Here's the deal:
      The bundle represents an overall retail value of $160. Pay What You Want for the unlocked courses (as little as $1). Bid the average price or over and you'll take home the entire bundle. Qualify for the giveaway!
      Beat the Leader's price and get entered into the epic giveaway, plus get featured on the leaderboard!

      >> Pay What You Want for this Complete Linux eBook Bundle <<
      See other Pay What You Want deals. This is a time-limited deal.
      Get $1 credit for every $25 spent · Give $10, Get $10 · 10% off for first-time buyers.

      Not for you?
      If this offer doesn't interest you, why not check out the following offers:



      The Win Your Dream 2020 Tesla Model 3 Giveaway Ivacy VPN - 5 year subscription for just $0.99 per month NordVPN - 2 year subscription at up to 68% off +3 months for free! Private Internet Access VPN - subscriptions at up to 71% off Unlocator VPN or SmartDNS - unblock Geoblock with 7-day free trial Subscribe to Neowin - for $14 a year, or $28 a year for Ad-Free experience Disable Sponsored posts · Neowin Deals · Free eBooks · Neowin Store

      Disclosure: This is a StackCommerce deal or giveaway in partnership with Neowin; an account at StackCommerce is required to participate in any deals or giveaways. For a full description of StackCommerce's privacy guidelines, go here. Neowin benefits from shared revenue of each sale made through our branded deals site, and it all goes toward the running costs.

    • By zikalify
      Linux Mint 20.1 'Ulyssa' beta launches with new programs
      by Paul Hill



      The Linux Mint project has just released the beta for Linux Mint 20.1. The new beta is available in the Cinnamon, MATE, and Xfce flavours of Linux Mint and aside from desktop improvements, share the same set of new features.

      Neowin has covered some of Linux Mint’s development updates in recent months and the work that went in then has landed in a more mature form in this beta. Highlights include a new Web Apps tool that lets you turn your favourite sites into web apps accessible from the app menu and IPTV program called Hypnotix has been created and items can be marked as favourites in the file manager on Cinnamon.

      Another change in Linux Mint 20.1, which has been known for quite a while now, is the inclusion of Chromium in the repositories. Chromium had previously been removed from the Linux Mint repositories because the maintainers didn’t like that it had Snap dependencies. The Chromium that is now included is compiled directly by the Mint team and updates will be released in a timely manner.

      As with the other releases in this series, Linux Mint 20.1 will continue to get updates until 2025. Those running Linux Mint 20 will be able to upgrade in a pain-free manner when Linux Mint 20.1 is stable because the base packages will remain the same. Those who choose to download the beta today won’t have to reinstall when the stable version comes out in a few weeks, instead, you just need to make sure you install available updates.

      You can find the three Linux Mint 20.1 beta flavours over on the Evowise mirror which should provide decent download speeds no matter where you are in the world.