Astra.Xtreme Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 You pretty much meant that iOS doesn't have bloats when you asked what bloats iOS have. Then i said iOS has bloats and listed what was bloat to me. Tell me, what can you remove with a jailbroken iOS device? Well bloat, in the traditional sense, is something un-needed that causes adverse effects on the product. So like I said, most Android phones comes with bloat which cause pretty severe tolls on performance. iOS and vanilla Android don't have bloat in that sense. My point was that vanilla Android still comes with considerably more pre-installed apps, which is why iOS is technically more "lite". Somebody said iOS is bloated, and that simply doesn't make sense. Anyway, there are a bunch of ways to get rid of stock apps, but the most accepted app is probably SBsettings with a jailbreak. There are actually ways you can temporarily hide any app without a jailbreak, but I think they all reappear if you power cycle. Maybe there's a way to hide apps on Android, but I do know you have to root it to actually delete apps. Though it's generally a bad idea to delete stock apps since it can cause instability. You won't gain much space back by deleting stuff, so it's best to just hide things. In general, jailbroken iOS has the same capabilities as rooted Android. The sky is the limit for what you can modify. The only difference is that unrooted Android has quite a bit more freedom than unjailbroken iOS. Personally I have no need to "bling" out the UI, so iOS being a walled garden doesn't bother me at all. I've had Android phones and there's nothing that I wish I had in iOS, except maybe a bigger screen. Just my $0.02. dead.cell and Charisma 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srbeen Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Well bloat, in the traditional sense, is something un-needed that causes adverse effects on the product. So like I said, most Android phones comes with bloat which cause pretty severe tolls on performance. iOS and vanilla Android don't have bloat in that sense. My point was that vanilla Android still comes with considerably more pre-installed apps, which is why iOS is technically more "lite". Somebody said iOS is bloated, and that simply doesn't make sense. Anyway, there are a bunch of ways to get rid of stock apps, but the most accepted app is probably SBsettings with a jailbreak. There are actually ways you can temporarily hide any app without a jailbreak, but I think they all reappear if you power cycle. Maybe there's a way to hide apps on Android, but I do know you have to root it to actually delete apps. Though it's generally a bad idea to delete stock apps since it can cause instability. You won't gain much space back by deleting stuff, so it's best to just hide things. In general, jailbroken iOS has the same capabilities as rooted Android. The sky is the limit for what you can modify. The only difference is that unrooted Android has quite a bit more freedom than unjailbroken iOS. Personally I have no need to "bling" out the UI, so iOS being a walled garden doesn't bother me at all. I've had Android phones and there's nothing that I wish I had in iOS, except maybe a bigger screen. Just my $0.02. With both platforms you have to root/jailbreak to remove the pre-installed applications. You may be able to force stop them, but they will likley restart themselves. You may also be able to hide them, but it will be temporary or again root-access required. Both phones are 'walled' in this regard, and both phones require a jailbreak/root access to really utilize them. (jailbreak and root are the exact same things btw. Just apple fans made it feel more like you were breaking from their 'jail' where android said it how it was) In the bloat terms, they are about equal if you consider time released and update sizes from carriers. Exceptions are the Nexus line which is vanilla google software without any carrier software or locks, and whatever 'google-experience' SGS4/HTC One overpriced software they are releasing. Android just don't hide anything, but when you install a 860MB update iOS has only a handful of things available.. Seems to use a lot of code to achieve its walled garden. Android if rooted can install a ROM thats maybe 100MB while the official carrier update may be 702MB due to the bloat. You also have to consider that iOS is so well designed to its hardware. The A(x) series chips are also specific design to Apple. Makes you wonder why the code wouldn't actually be smaller. I've installed android on a 3G as well, and it wasn't a great experience. Astra.Xtreme, Charisma and dead.cell 3 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrynalyne Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Tucson is a student city.. so it's not really objective of the real state of things.. most young folks rock iPhones still thinking it's cool. No it isn't. To qualify as that, the major reason for living here would be schools. Most schools blow here, and most of the population aren't students. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dead.cell Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 With both platforms you have to root/jailbreak to remove the pre-installed applications. You may be able to force stop them, but they will likley restart themselves. You may also be able to hide them, but it will be temporary or again root-access required. Both phones are 'walled' in this regard, and both phones require a jailbreak/root access to really utilize them. (jailbreak and root are the exact same things btw. Just apple fans made it feel more like you were breaking from their 'jail' where android said it how it was) In the bloat terms, they are about equal if you consider time released and update sizes from carriers. Exceptions are the Nexus line which is vanilla google software without any carrier software or locks, and whatever 'google-experience' SGS4/HTC One overpriced software they are releasing. Android just don't hide anything, but when you install a 860MB update iOS has only a handful of things available.. Seems to use a lot of code to achieve its walled garden. Android if rooted can install a ROM thats maybe 100MB while the official carrier update may be 702MB due to the bloat. You also have to consider that iOS is so well designed to its hardware. The A(x) series chips are also specific design to Apple. Makes you wonder why the code wouldn't actually be smaller. I've installed android on a 3G as well, and it wasn't a great experience. Love the input from you and Astra.Xtreme. (Y) I think Android does have it a bit worse though, considering the applications that are installed per carrier and per manufacturer. First party applications I may not use aren't a big deal to me, but third party crapware like Sprint's Nascar app along with their other apps and services are just weak. No reason to be forced to have them on there, nor should they have to root their phones just to get rid of that NOVA game for example. It's companies like that which give Android a bad name. http://community.sprint.com/baw/thread/34064 (just a link to what I'm talking about) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charisma Veteran Posted August 10, 2013 Veteran Share Posted August 10, 2013 Umm, who cares? There are a lot of apps on different platforms that are not built in. Like Facebook, Twitter, Skype, Instagram, and several others that are popular. You put all these built in apps in to an OS and it will bloat it, lots of time you cannot remove the built in apps, or it takes longer to release OS updates. The point of a smartphone is to add an app that you want when you want it. And if you dont want to use it anymore, get rid of it. Been a well received and normal thing on PCs for years. The problem with people not know how to do something is not new to smartphones. Ugh, this. I love my Z10 (seriously, this new OS is smooth and flawless and I am actually impressed) but I hate that Twitter, LinkedIn, Foursquare, and all these other apps I never use are on there. I can remove them, but then any time I check for software updates it insists on reinstalling them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rohdekill Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 I've noticed something in my workplace, everyone in there 40's, 50's or 60's has an iPhone. Then the few of us in our 20's or early 30's have an Android. Might be an age thing, as a lot of my older relatives in the family have an iPhone, yet my cousins have Android's or Blackberry's. I remember a couple of years ago a lot of my mates had iPhones (or wanted one), that seems to have gradually changed. Not as an insult, but most 20-30 year olds are still stuck in that "I have to have the newest and shiniest...gimmie, gimmie....now, now" attitude. Later in life, you say "it works, why p*ss away money for something newer". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrynalyne Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Not as an insult, but most 20-30 year olds are still stuck in that "I have to have the newest and shiniest...gimmie, gimmie....now, now" attitude. Later in life, you say "it works, why p*ss away money for something newer". 20-30-somethings are part of the 'now' generation. Not a shock that they have that attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ichi Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 1. It's not fair because of how the eco systems are positioned. It doesn't matter if they chose to licence it or not, the fact that they didn't means that this comparison is flawed. I don't think it's flawed, OS marketshare is just what it is. The fact that Apple decided to not license their OS just means that the current marketshare situation is not only due to whatever inherent qualities each OS might have, but the bottom line is that Google's decisions (including licensing) is bringing their OS to more customers' hands than Apple's decisions (including licensing). We have been comparing OS marketshares for years with Apple not licensing OSX and Windows being preinstalled in every non-Apple computer sold. I don't see how it would be fair there but not for phones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nashy Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 I don't think it's flawed, OS marketshare is just what it is. The fact that Apple decided to not license their OS just means that the current marketshare situation is not only due to whatever inherent qualities each OS might have, but the bottom line is that Google's decisions (including licensing) is bringing their OS to more customers' hands than Apple's decisions (including licensing). We have been comparing OS marketshares for years with Apple not licensing OSX and Windows being preinstalled in every non-Apple computer sold. I don't see how it would be fair there but not for phones. Let me clarify what I mean. By fair, I understand it's probably the wrong word to use, and agree with what you say above. I don't think it's fair that these figures are being used to paint a picture of Apple vs. Android, because it doesn't do that at all. Fanboys latch onto these numbers and will sink the boot in, all the while, Apple is still extremely strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerxes Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Nearly everyone I know has an iPhone. They look at my Note II like it's from some strange planet when I haul it out. It just amazes me no end. Same here is Australia, nearly everyone I know owns an iPhone. They say Android is dominating, but wherever I look there are iPhones everywhere. When ever I pull out it Galaxy Nexus, people are like "is that an iPhone?". That said, it's pretty clear that out of all the Android phones Samsung is dominating the Android handsets (75%+ of the Android handsets I do see are Samsung Galaxy phones) but I just don't see many of them overall. In fact some of few friends I know who did use Android/Windows Phone, dumped it for an iPhone because they prefer the simplicity and that it "just works". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srbeen Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Love the input from you and Astra.Xtreme. (Y) I think Android does have it a bit worse though, considering the applications that are installed per carrier and per manufacturer. First party applications I may not use aren't a big deal to me, but third party crapware like Sprint's Nascar app along with their other apps and services are just weak. No reason to be forced to have them on there, nor should they have to root their phones just to get rid of that NOVA game for example. It's companies like that which give Android a bad name. http://community.sprint.com/baw/thread/34064 (just a link to what I'm talking about) This is very true. Theres one thing when Samsung or HTC or Sony or whomever install their apps. Like a 'dre beats equalizer' or a 360 degree camera function, or a modified gallery. Their apps are developed to enhance the hardware. Its another thing when your carrier throws on garbage and eats up your internal memory with crap that you won't use and can't get rid of. I applaud the Canadian carriers in this regard. Pay way more than its really worth but Telus and Bell don't even brand their phones anymore (they are locked to the carrier however). Any software they pre-install is useful (like account management) and they all can be uninstalled/reinstalled as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srbeen Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Same here is Australia, nearly everyone I know owns an iPhone. They say Android is dominating, but wherever I look there are iPhones everywhere. When ever I pull out it Galaxy Nexus, people are like "is that an iPhone?". That said, it's pretty clear that out of all the Android phones Samsung is dominating the Android handsets (75%+ of the Android handsets I do see are Samsung Galaxy phones) but I just don't see many of them overall. In fact some of few friends I know who did use Android/Windows Phone, dumped it for an iPhone because they prefer the simplicity and that it "just works". Most of the people I know who adopted android done so because iPhones havn't changed since their launch. Look at an ad for the iPhone 5 and an ad for the iPhone 2G if you don't believe me, they look nearly identical in the ad. Their phone was feeling 'stale' and the android hardware they were offered had many additional features the iPhone didn't, including a cheaper price tag. Anyone I know who still has an iPhone has more iDevices and/or invested heavily into the app store programs which would be worthless. Android is much better with version 4 than ever, but its still a long way from just working. You get what you pay for. iOS isn't free, android is. You know its bad when samsungs ad had to point out the 'easy mode' button.... Personally Samsung, I have no idea why you didn't default to 'easy mode' and have an 'advanced mode' button instead, even just for marketing/PR purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerxes Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Most of the people I know who adopted android done so because iPhones havn't changed since their launch. Look at an ad for the iPhone 5 and an ad for the iPhone 2G if you don't believe me, they look nearly identical in the ad. Their phone was feeling 'stale' and the android hardware they were offered had many additional features the iPhone didn't, including a cheaper price tag. Anyone I know who still has an iPhone has more iDevices and/or invested heavily into the app store programs which would be worthless. Android is much better with version 4 than ever, but its still a long way from just working. You get what you pay for. iOS isn't free, android is. You know its bad when samsungs ad had to point out the 'easy mode' button.... Personally Samsung, I have no idea why you didn't default to 'easy mode' and have an 'advanced mode' button instead, even just for marketing/PR purposes. I agree with you, I love my Android phone and it has easily evolved the most and really has got so much better in recent years. The thing is alot of my friends are not techies and they really don't care that the iPhone hasn't really changed (although some have admitted it would be nice if Apple did change things bit more then they do). Unfortunately for the ones who went Android (and switched back), the thing that put them off it (and back to Apple) had been a bad experiences, for example one had her's suddenly decide to wipe itself to factory defaults at random times (was a Galaxy S1). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srbeen Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 I agree with you, I love my Android phone and it has easily evolved the most and really has got so much better in recent years. The thing is alot of my friends are not techies and they really don't care that the iPhone hasn't really changed (although some have admitted it would be nice if Apple did change things bit more then they do). Unfortunately for the ones who went Android (and switched back), the thing that put them off it (and back to Apple) had been a bad experiences, for example one had her's suddenly decide to wipe itself to factory defaults at random times (was a Galaxy S1). Yeah, experienced that a few times myself, RandomResets and ScreeOfDeath were quite common as well.. SD card issues out the ying-yang. 4.0 rectified this it seems and iOS absorbed these issues from the start. iOS biggest problem is with time it seems, many date bugs that caused phones to go haywire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draconian Guppy Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Android is much better with version 4 than ever, but its still a long way from just working. You get what you pay for. iOS isn't free, android is. You know its bad when samsungs ad had to point out the 'easy mode' button.... Personally Samsung, I have no idea why you didn't default to 'easy mode' and have an 'advanced mode' button instead, even just for marketing/PR purposes. +1 Them adding an easy mode is just like saying "oh dear we've complicated it too much, lets add something in case someone doesn't figure it out". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dead.cell Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Personally Samsung, I have no idea why you didn't default to 'easy mode' and have an 'advanced mode' button instead, even just for marketing/PR purposes. That would probably alleviate so many issues people have with it I think. I love to customize my Android phone, but realistically, most phones of the average person are a complete mess with multiple shortcuts all over the place, widgets they don't use, and crappy battery life all over the place because they have everything open, running and just don't know about it. :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterSasuke Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Actually in this case it will be "it's", not "its". If you're going to correct someone, do it correctly. ;) When you're speaking of possession of an object, the word is "its". "It's" is nothing but a contraction. English lesson over. Raa 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raa Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 When you're speaking of possession of an object, the word is "its". "It's" is nothing but a contraction. English lesson over. Yes, you're correct. I always get confused with possession and the use of the apostrophe. Thanks for the lesson... I mean, reminder. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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