XBOX One will work without Kinect plugged in

[HawkMan]

So many assumptions in so little time :laugh: I've played/own all the games you've mentioned and many more tactical shooters. I'm taking into account both SP and MP experiences though and if you're too busy twirling your finger in the air you're as good as dead in RS MP. It's very different to the SP where you have all the time in the world to scope out a room before you enter. Again though, doesn't really add to the experience. You're swapping something that works perfectly fine on a controller and cramming it into a device to justify it.

 

And yes, Kinect was intended for pure Kinect titles. Otherwise why take the stage and use Milo as an example of it's technology and not something familiar like Halo. There's still nothing like that available for the device and that was over 4 years ago almost. It was most certainly going to be available to all sorts of games to use voice controls too, but never their only/primary intention. Of course the API allows easy implementation of features. It'd be silly to release it without those. That doesn't really push the device to it's limits, and if you aren't doing that, then you're not doing anything worthwhile. You're just recreating the same old experiences with a different input. Had Kinect kept it's processor you can bet **** like Joy Ride and Steel Battalion wouldn't have ended up steaming piles.

 

Why a special controller? Because you don't need to sell the idea. It's just part of the controller that every gamer is going to have in their hands anyway. Just like the force feedback triggers and thumbsticks/rumble before it. Asking people to sit Jonny 5 above/below their tv is bad enough, never mind shoving it down their throats with a higher price tag and **** experiences.

 

And finally, it may be in the box, but I've already explained and believe me this will be a decent percentage of users, it doesn't mean it will be used. Now that they've announced it's non-mandatory I won't even unpack the thing if I'm forced to buy it :yes: In fact, any takers want to buy it from me? First come etc etc :p

 

 

 

It doesn't add to the experience ? The console never had the full rainbow six experience since the controllers didn't have enough buttons. Heck just look at regular FPS titles as well, different titles employes different functions, but none has them all since they don't have the buttons for it. The main reason leaning is ditched from so many titles today, and why the new RB6 is a shadow of what they should be.

And generally speaking, in raven shield, the team that rushed, was the team that lost, the team that took their time and sneaked around, they won. Even so hand signals would be for AI in single player obviously. And how that doesn't add to immersion I don't know how you can claim.

Also a special controller also needs to sell the idea. Both Nintendo and Sony have said they're trying it. Except they're not the standard controller... So.... They have to buy a brand new controller to use it. Yeah, that'll be used by at least one game made by a first party I bet... Meanwhile everyone has a kinect if they have a One, and it can do the same thing, to some degree even better. No need to sell the idea.

Funny how your willing to give it away without even trying it. Just the added advantage of looking into corners properly in Forza would sell me on in. Add in leaning and all the rest, yup. And you said other kinect one would be good and have resulted in certain games being good if they hadn't dropped the CPU... Eh we'll, the kinect 2 has the CPU... Make up your mind...

[HawkMan]

The controller is integral.  In some games if you unplug it it pauses the game.  Without some adapters and tweaking, Xbox does not support keyboard and mouse to play games.

 

What do you suggest for people with no controllers on the Xbox 360?  Keyboard and mouse has basically no support.  So what else?  Therefore, the Xbox will not function without a controller.

 

The fact that with this news, I can open the Xbox One box and immediately throw out Kinect means it is not integral.  I have no need for it.

Kinect games you can unplug the controller. And chances are this generation you will see a lot of games requiring both to be active to work. That makes it, according to you, integral. The controller and the kinect is equal in the xbox one.

[Woelfel]

The controller is integral.  In some games if you unplug it it pauses the game.  Without some adapters and tweaking, Xbox does not support keyboard and mouse to play games.

 

What do you suggest for people with no controllers on the Xbox 360?  Keyboard and mouse has basically no support.  So what else?  Therefore, the Xbox will not function without a controller.

 

The fact that with this news, I can open the Xbox One box and immediately throw out Kinect means it is not integral.  I have no need for it.  

 

I'm not talking about the Xbox 360. I'm talking about the Xbox One. I know what happens when you unplug a controller, I've written code (XNA) to handle those type of scenarios...but that was 360. I'm 100% that if your game required Kinect, it would have to handle it the same way (well if you want to handle it that way....you don't have to pause the game, just recommended).

 

Kinect games you can unplug the controller. And chances are this generation you will see a lot of games requiring both to be active to work. That makes it, according to you, integral. The controller and the kinect is equal in the xbox one.

 

Thank you, someone understands.

[trooper11]

Guys, this all boils down to two points:

 

 

1.  Does bundling Kinect hurt the X1 sales wise?

 

2.  Does bundling Kinect improve its own chances of being successful?

 

 

 

That's really it.  The answers to these will be heavily affected by how you feel about Kinect and the X1 in the first place.

 

The divide is a sharp one.  I can clearly see the line drawn.  Those that are interested in seeing what it can do answer 'No and Yes'.  Those that aren't interested in Kinect answer 'Yes and No'.

 

All this arguing is getting no where.  We are arguing over opinions, not facts.  If I was MS, I'm not sure which side I should listen to.  At least with things like DRM there was a nearly unified voice of opposition that they could point to.  If MS is looking at whether to unbundle Kinect or not, they aren't seeing the groundswell of opposition against it so far.  I suppose if enough people voiced the opposition, then MS could make the move. 

 

If they do unbundle it, I think most would agree that it would not be seen as an endorsement of Kinect by MS.  It would be seen by many as an admission that it just isn't going to work out.  I wont be devastated if they do that, but it'll be a bit disappointing if we don't see serious dev attention.  MS claims it was an expensive piece of hardware after all. At least then we could stop arguing over Kinect as some dark cloud over the X1.

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

It doesn't add to the experience ? The console never had the full rainbow six experience since the controllers didn't have enough buttons. Heck just look at regular FPS titles as well, different titles employes different functions, but none has them all since they don't have the buttons for it. The main reason leaning is ditched from so many titles today, and why the new RB6 is a shadow of what they should be.

And generally speaking, in raven shield, the team that rushed, was the team that lost, the team that took their time and sneaked around, they won. Even so hand signals would be for AI in single player obviously. And how that doesn't add to immersion I don't know how you can claim.

Also a special controller also needs to sell the idea. Both Nintendo and Sony have said they're trying it. Except they're not the standard controller... So.... They have to buy a brand new controller to use it. Yeah, that'll be used by at least one game made by a first party I bet... Meanwhile everyone has a kinect if they have a One, and it can do the same thing, to some degree even better. No need to sell the idea.

Funny how your willing to give it away without even trying it. Just the added advantage of looking into corners properly in Forza would sell me on in. Add in leaning and all the rest, yup. And you said other kinect one would be good and have resulted in certain games being good if they hadn't dropped the CPU... Eh we'll, the kinect 2 has the CPU... Make up your mind...

 

I didn't play the old school RS games on consoles so I can't speak for their controls. I played RSV and RSV2 on both PC and 360 so I know more about those titles. But your cry for more buttons/features mapped to them is ridiculous as is the suggestion that Kinect is the answer to the problem. There is no need to squeeze an entire genres controls into 1 game. That just doesn't make any sense. Controls should be included and based on each individual game during development. Otherwise you end up like George Broussard who crams everything into 1 and can't even finish what he started.

 

Again, some reading comprehension is needed on this forum. I never said Kinect can't add immersion, I said so far all it did was swap functions from buttons to motion. I then said, given the option I want the controller option because it's almost always going to be more reliable, responsive, faster and easier. Your example of Forza is something you can already do in all racing games with a push of the thumb stick. I don't need to spend ?100 to do it with my head. Besides, how are you supposed to see what's in the corner when you're no longer looking at the screen? ;)

 

I know Kinect 2 has a CPU in it? I said the reason Kinect 1 failed to catch on wasn't because it wasn't included in the box from 2005, I said it was because it sucked from lack of power. Yeeesh. Here, saved you some time http://www.englishforeveryone.org/Topics/Reading-Comprehension.htm

[trooper11]

Do add-ons traditionally do better when they are bundled or when they are sold separately?

 

Its not impossible for it to be both an issue with the hardware and lack of user base to encourage developer support.

 

This is all about what each of us wants or doesn't want, not what is best for a product.

[trooper11]

I suggest we drop the arguing over gameplay features/game types that some like and some don't. Its a circle of madness.

 

 

I think the most important issues at hand remain:

 

 

1.  Does bundling Kinect hurt the X1 sales wise?

 

2.  Does bundling Kinect improve its own chances of being successful?

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

Couldn't tell you firgures for all of them, so someone feel free to write up a report with sources :p

 

Most do like to use the same failed examples though, e.g Sega CD, 32X. Usually SEGA products...Funny that. Maybe the problem wasn't the accessories but the man in charge. Hmm.

 

I've already named some successes, so feel free to look up the numbers.

 

Like I said last night though, I honestly believe taking Kinect out the box is better for X1s success. I read someone's suggestion "but in a year when the price comes down it'll be a better deal than PS4". Well no. You're suggesting that the PS4 price is static and can't drop to compete now? Deary me. 1 reason Microsoft was so strong with the 360 is because of the price. Sony had to include a BR drive in every single unit. Sony struggle on sales and want to drop the price to boost them? No problem, we're already in the black so we'll hurt them some more with our own price drop. Rinse, repeat.

[trooper11]

Couldn't tell you firgures for all of them, so someone feel free to write up a report with sources :p

 

Most do like to use the same failed examples though, e.g Sega CD, 32X. Usually SEGA products...Funny that. Maybe the problem wasn't the accessories but the man in charge. Hmm.

 

I've already named some successes, so feel free to look up the numbers.

 

 

This is a stalemate.  Arguing opinions is meaningless.  The only thing I know is that neither of us really know.  You assume and I assume. Too many variables.

 

 

Like I said last night though, I honestly believe taking Kinect out the box is better for X1s success. I read someone's suggestion "but in a year when the price comes down it'll be a better deal than PS4". Well no. You're suggesting that the PS4 price is static and can't drop to compete now? Deary me. 1 reason Microsoft was so strong with the 360 is because of the price. Sony had to include a BR drive in every single unit. Sony struggle on sales and want to drop the price to boost them? No problem, we're already in the black so we'll hurt them some more with our own price drop. Rinse, repeat.

 

 

I'm not saying your wrong, I have no idea how it could turn out.  My only issue was looking back at the past to see a pattern with this stuff. 

 

MS has to decide if they can prove the new Kinect can offer better experiences.  If they can do that, then people would be more interested in it and more willing to buy a bundle with it included.  This gen did not prove that and therefore there is no built up confidence in the device. 

 

I have a hard time separating the voices of those on the internet with the reality though.  I don't know if most consumers would pass up the X1 because of Kinect or because of the $100 price difference.  If I did, I would definitely say go with the choice that reflects that opinion.  If MS lowered the price to match the PS4 but still included Kinect, would that make a difference?

 

Maybe MS has to be willing to take a fairly serious financial hit if they really believe the new Kinect hardware can offer us a better experience.

[HawkMan]

the Vegas games where horrible RS games... they're not even truly tactical games.

 

also you might want to check out the open beta of Ghost Recon Online, which is something I've been waiting for, a true tactical online shooter. it's slow and tactical. and it would in fact allow you to use hand signals.

 

And while you may not need to compress and entire genre into one game, the FPS genre is one where more controls is often needed and lacking.

 

I want to be able to sneak, crouch, lean, throw grenades, reload, shoot, aim, run, hold breath, activate functions, jumping, and so on, on my console game.  while games like CS doesn't require all these buttons, a true adaption of RS needs all those functions you can't fit on a single console controller. 

 

As for controllers being more reliable and responsive. for stuff like leaning that's irrelevant. it's not an instant action like pulling the trigger, and the kinect 2 is more than accurate enough to reliably detect leaning, both sideways and forward. as for easyness. more than easy enough. head tracking, head tracking in a racing game would be far easier with the kinect than using a stick. 

 

FPS games had for more functions before, and they where finished, so why would they suddenly not be finished now because you add more player abilities. 

 

http://www.allgame.com/game.php?id=38415&tab=controls

 

Now fit all that into a console controller. 

 

So if you know the 2 has a cpu in it, then why are you putting the same failures you put on the Kinect 1 on the Kinect 2 without giving it a chance. 

 

never mind trying toput this game on a console

http://www.allgame.com/game.php?id=70076&tab=controls

[trooper11]

Trying to convince someone to like something or dislike something that they have made clear why they don't is silly in my opinion.

 

All this illustrates is that people like different things....shocker.

[Showan]

Uh....This makes no sense.

 

How can Kinect 1 be the fastest selling digital device, while if Microsoft does NOT bundle Kinect 2, it will kill it?  That makes no sense....It does not matter if it is bundled or not.  If the sales record show it has enough users, developers will utilize it.

 

 

 

Except, if you want a Xbox One, you are required to get it with Kinect.  NO OTHER OPTIONS.  Therefore, Kinect is forced on us.

 

Forced on us DOES NOT equal a guy with a gun to our head.  Why do people make that argument?  The ONLY.....ONLY way to get Xbox One is with Kinect bundled.  Therefore, it is forced.  Get it now?

 

However, have it forced on users does not guarantee developers will utilize it.  Especially when the PS4, WiiU, PC, ... do not have this.

 

Also, you guys are forgetting something here.  What if people that hate Kinect do not want to get the Xbox One because of it?  Therefore, Xbox One has lower sales and is not a major concern in the development?

 

How did SixAxis turn out even though it was on every PS3 owner's hands?

 

If Kinect were built in conjunction with the Xbox One... Then it's not forced because because X1 & Kinect are one, bust have to be housed in separate bodies.

 

When you guarantee every developer that there is a Kinect in every box... It's coded into the Xbox One on a system level, that means developers will more than likely bother with Kinect (in any sort of capacity), than to just look at it, shrug , and whatever it.  

 

I'm no developer.. But if I can be guaranteed that everyone will have the exact same box no matter what for the next 10yrs or so... I am way more intrigued to give it a try than to turn a blind eye towards it.  

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

This is a stalemate.  Arguing opinions is meaningless.  The only thing I know is that neither of us really know.  You assume and I assume. Too many variables.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not saying your wrong, I have no idea how it could turn out.  My only issue was looking back at the past to see a pattern with this stuff. 

 

MS has to decide if they can prove the new Kinect can offer better experiences.  If they can do that, then people would be more interested in it and more willing to buy a bundle with it included.  This gen did not prove that and therefore there is no built up confidence in the device. 

 

I have a hard time separating the voices of those on the internet with the reality though.  I don't know if most consumers would pass up the X1 because of Kinect or because of the $100 price difference.  If I did, I would definitely say go with the choice that reflects that opinion.  If MS lowered the price to match the PS4 but still included Kinect, would that make a difference?

 

Maybe MS has to be willing to take a fairly serious financial hit if they really believe the new Kinect hardware can offer us a better experience.

 

Yes, a very big difference. Not going to happen though. Too much of a loss per box to do that.

 

Including it means you need to convince people it's worth the ?100 extra, it isn't the same ###### experience as K1, support the hell out of it and play catch up to Sony with price cuts for as long as it's included. Lots of risk involved there.

 

the Vegas games where horrible RS games... they're not even truly tactical games.

 

also you might want to check out the open beta of Ghost Recon Online, which is something I've been waiting for, a true tactical online shooter. it's slow and tactical. and it would in fact allow you to use hand signals.

 

And while you may not need to compress and entire genre into one game, the FPS genre is one where more controls is often needed and lacking.

 

I want to be able to sneak, crouch, lean, throw grenades, reload, shoot, aim, run, hold breath, activate functions, jumping, and so on, on my console game.  while games like CS doesn't require all these buttons, a true adaption of RS needs all those functions you can't fit on a single console controller. 

 

As for controllers being more reliable and responsive. for stuff like leaning that's irrelevant. it's not an instant action like pulling the trigger, and the kinect 2 is more than accurate enough to reliably detect leaning, both sideways and forward. as for easyness. more than easy enough. head tracking, head tracking in a racing game would be far easier with the kinect than using a stick. 

 

FPS games had for more functions before, and they where finished, so why would they suddenly not be finished now because you add more player abilities. 

 

http://www.allgame.com/game.php?id=38415&tab=controls

 

Now fit all that into a console controller. 

 

So if you know the 2 has a cpu in it, then why are you putting the same failures you put on the Kinect 1 on the Kinect 2 without giving it a chance. 

 

never mind trying toput this game on a console

http://www.allgame.com/game.php?id=70076&tab=controls

 

I know the difference between RSv and the older titles, just mentioning I only played those on consoles. I played the "classic" titles on PC.

 

Already played the Ghost Recon Online beta last year.

 

As for the controls, I don't think it worries console FPS players very much. Would it be nice? Sure. More playing styles is always better, but only if they really fit the game in question. But when CoD is the favourite choice for millions they'd scoff at it.  I wouldn't use most of those in any of the FPS I play on console and I love all the different types. They're important on PC FPS no question, but even there the tactical shooter market is a little dried up. I actually like the return of twitch shooters we saw in 2012 and really really hoping for a new UT game. That's another story though.

 

As to the rest of your post, it really is a matter of opinion and I wouldn't like to do those things when many of them can be accomplished with a controller. For leaning you just need to include a gyroscope and you can achieve the same thing. Far easier/responsive/cheaper than a camera which is limited by number of players never mind surroundings.

 

I'll give Kinect / Move a break when they actually prove themselves. For me, reproducing an action which buttons can do is not enough. It has to offer something I can't already do.

[trooper11]

Yes, a very big difference. Not going to happen though. Too much of a loss per box to do that.

 

Including it means you need to convince people it's worth the ?100 extra, it isn't the same **** experience as K1, support the hell out of it and play catch up to Sony with price cuts for as long as it's included. Lots of risk involved there.

 

 

 

I agree its risky, but there is the other side of this:

 

If they don't do that, they risk a device that they sunk a lot of money into being relegated to 'niche' status like the first Kinect. They lose money in that scenario as well.

 

I guess it comes to which risks a bigger loss.  If they take the hit in order to prove Kinect is more useful now and that in turn spurs sales of the X1 (maybe not at launch, but after), or cut it loose now and take whatever success it can get on its own while spurring more sales at launch.  Like it or not, Kinect is a differentiator between the ps4 and X1.  I've seen plenty of people complain that the consoles are too similar already, you know MS would get crap for the change.

 

If the group at MS thinks that the new Kinect hardware can actually prove to be good, then maybe the bet is worth it.  If they aren't confident, maybe we see them change their mind before launch.

[HawkMan]

a gyroscope over a camera... seriously... speaking of devices prone to faulty and overactive input. my controller I maymove around in all kinds of directions when I play, I like to sit with it relaxed, I don't want move the controller about. with the kinect, I can just slightly lean to either side, or even just tilt my head a little bit. certainly preferably over the horrible six axis.

 

MS already knew people had no interest in the Six Axis since they already did that years ago with their sidewinder gamepad for PC. And why would leaning need a supersensitive input, it's not a quick activity. also the kinect2 can detect lean accurately on as many people as you can have on a split screen, even better thanks to the controllers it will even know which player is who. 

 

Also what button can properly do head tracking in a racing game. or even in a FPS game, being able to look another direction than you run/shoot has been sorely lacking in FPS games. 

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

a gyroscope over a camera... seriously... speaking of devices prone to faulty and overactive input. my controller I maymove around in all kinds of directions when I play, I like to sit with it relaxed, I don't want move the controller about. with the kinect, I can just slightly lean to either side, or even just tilt my head a little bit. certainly preferably over the horrible six axis.

 

MS already knew people had no interest in the Six Axis since they already did that years ago with their sidewinder gamepad for PC. And why would leaning need a supersensitive input, it's not a quick activity. also the kinect2 can detect lean accurately on as many people as you can have on a split screen, even better thanks to the controllers it will even know which player is who. 

 

Also what button can properly do head tracking in a racing game. or even in a FPS game, being able to look another direction than you run/shoot has been sorely lacking in FPS games. 

 

My point is not that buttons offer head tracking, they are capable of offering the same function though. I don't want to lean at look at my TV squint. If gyroscopes work for Wii/u and smartphones then they can work for an X1 controller. Half the people who play racing games already turn their hands when they turn in game anyway :laugh:

 

Running and shooting while looking another direction? I'm really beginning to wonder how you play games or even want to play games. You'd be a dream opponent for my K:D ratio though :laugh:

 

Might as well call it a day on this discussion though. We'll never agree. You'll remember I was a big supporter of Kinect before and during launch. They didn't deliver. No one can deny that. Time for Microsoft to step up and prove it the 2nd time. If all they have to offer is what you've replied with, good ######ing luck :laugh:

[George P Global Moderator]

Not needing to plug it in is a common sense move, because it could break and then what?   As far as having it in the SKU, they're not going to back away from that one, even if it means a hit in sales if developers do take advantage of it because they know everyone at least has it even if they don't use it (maybe if they see a developer using it in a cool new way they'll then connect it and use it for once?), then it's worth it for MS in the long run.  And besides, the price will only come down in time. By this time next year we could be looking at a $399 SKU with Kinect.  At some point the price is low enough that having it in the package doesn't matter to people.     I skipped on the first gen Kinect but seeing how they improved on v2 and how I can use it on Skype as well and so on I'll like to give it a go this time around.

 

Also, they could have access to the Kinect through the same APIs game devs get for app developers as well.  Would be cool to see 3rd party apps and even games using it in different ways (as an option).  

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

Not needing to plug it in is a common sense move, because it could break and then what?   As far as having it in the SKU, they're not going to back away from that one, even if it means a hit in sales if developers do take advantage of it because they know everyone at least has it even if they don't use it (maybe if they see a developer using it in a cool new way they'll then connect it and use it for once?), then it's worth it for MS in the long run.  And besides, the price will only come down in time. By this time next year we could be looking at a $399 SKU with Kinect.  At some point the price is low enough that having it in the package doesn't matter to people.     I skipped on the first gen Kinect but seeing how they improved on v2 and how I can use it on Skype as well and so on I'll like to give it a go this time around.

 

Also, they could have access to the Kinect through the same APIs game devs get for app developers as well.  Would be cool to see 3rd party apps and even games using it in different ways (as an option).  

 

Like I said earlier, then Sony drop the price of PS4 and it still looks bad. If you keep it in the box it's always going to cost more than the competition. Just like the PS2 dropped to $100 and sales skyrocketed while the PS3 suffered. Or just like the 360 will always be cheaper than PS3 due to the components.

[trooper11]

Like I said earlier, then Sony drop the price of PS4 and it still looks bad. If you keep it in the box it's always going to cost more than the competition. Just like the PS2 dropped to $100 and sales skyrocketed while the PS3 suffered. Or just like the 360 will always be cheaper than PS3 due to the components.

 

I agree, which means in that scenario, MS must prove that Kinect is worth the additional cost. If they can't or aren't interested in risking it, they will unbundle it and lower the price accordingly.

 

Remember, even though Sony was not able to match the 360's price, they still sold enough consoles to stay close to the 360.

[George P Global Moderator]

Like I said earlier, then Sony drop the price of PS4 and it still looks bad. If you keep it in the box it's always going to cost more than the competition. Just like the PS2 dropped to $100 and sales skyrocketed while the PS3 suffered. Or just like the 360 will always be cheaper than PS3 due to the components.

 

 

It all depends on sales and if MS is fine with it,  and will Sony be aggressive with price cutting?  It's not like they don't have their own problems, hell, the only part of Sony making money is the part that sells insurance in Asia.  I've heard a few times this year that their electronics side is a total mess.   They could be selling at a steep loss at $399 already compared to MS and might not be eager to counter and undercut so soon.  traditionally we don't see price cuts on consoles a year later, it's often longer as far as I remember from the past.

 

Besides, will developers use it more?  If so, and in cool new ways that draws attention to their XB1 version of the game compared to the PS4/PC version without Kinect then that's a plus.

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

It all depends on sales and if MS is fine with it,  and will Sony be aggressive with price cutting?  It's not like they don't have their own problems, hell, the only part of Sony making money is the part that sells insurance in Asia.  I've heard a few times this year that their electronics side is a total mess.   They could be selling at a steep loss at $399 already compared to MS and might not be eager to counter and undercut so soon.  traditionally we don't see price cuts on consoles a year later, it's often longer as far as I remember from the past.

 

Besides, will developers use it more?  If so, and in cool new ways that draws attention to their XB1 version of the game compared to the PS4/PC version without Kinect then that's a plus.

 

All very true. I think PS4 will be the break Sony has been waiting for. It won't solve all their problems but you have to start somewhere.

 

I don't know if I made the comment on Neowin or Twitter, but back at E3 it felt like Sony was "fresh" again. They can start over with the PS4 after all the mistakes the PS3 made. It will take years to be back on track obviously, but it's not like Microsoft have an easy ride right now either with terrible products like Win8/RT/Phone sinking them :laugh: Nintendo too are having a tough time with the Wii U. They'll all survive for quite some time yet so gamers don't need to worry about these issues.

[Woelfel]

Consoles are rarely the same price anyways...the Kinect-less SKU won't come. Everyone will just deal with it. Prices for consoles usually don't drop until like the 3rd year or so. The games will get better, the experiences will get better. I just feel that in this information age, everyone is harping on any small thing.

[HawkMan]

My point is not that buttons offer head tracking, they are capable of offering the same function though. I don't want to lean at look at my TV squint. If gyroscopes work for Wii/u and smartphones then they can work for an X1 controller. Half the people who play racing games already turn their hands when they turn in game anyway :laugh:

 

Running and shooting while looking another direction? I'm really beginning to wonder how you play games or even want to play games. You'd be a dream opponent for my K:D ratio though :laugh:

 

Might as well call it a day on this discussion though. We'll never agree. You'll remember I was a big supporter of Kinect before and during launch. They didn't deliver. No one can deny that. Time for Microsoft to step up and prove it the 2nd time. If all they have to offer is what you've replied with, good ****ing luck :laugh:

 

 

Being able to glance in different directiosn than you run or shoot it actually very powerful and useful. some games simulate it by making the gun movement lag behind turning.

 

try Mechwarrior online and you'll see how powerful head tracking could be. 

[BajiRav]

Like I said earlier, then Sony drop the price of PS4 and it still looks bad. If you keep it in the box it's always going to cost more than the competition. Just like the PS2 dropped to $100 and sales skyrocketed while the PS3 suffered. Or just like the 360 will always be cheaper than PS3 due to the components.

That's true but it's possible that Microsoft can drop faster than Sony due to RAM.

[HawkMan]

That's true but it's possible that Microsoft can drop faster than Sony due to RAM.

They can also afford to sell at a loss. Sonys current situation doesn't really allow that.