General Motors Takes on Tesla

[Growled Member]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Electric power will never take off. Batteries die out as they get recharged. And they're pretty damn expensive to replace. Plus they take forever to be recharged. We haven't even reached 8 hr recharge for these things yet. There's also the fact that my 2004 Corolla gets better mpg than any electric car currently available.

 

Plus, the drain on the already over worked electrical grid. We can hardly keep up with demand as it is.

[Crisp]

What about a huge world-wide scalectrix track - no batteries required. :woot:

[spenser.d]

Plus, the drain on the already over worked electrical grid. We can hardly keep up with demand as it is.

 

Yes, but that's something we can (theoretically) fix.  We can't fix that thing where we're going to run out of gas :P

 

If I could afford an electric car I'd get one. Even a Volt would be fine as almost everything I do is within 35 miles roundtrip of where I live.

[pack34]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Electric power will never take off. Batteries die out as they get recharged. And they're pretty damn expensive to replace. Plus they take forever to be recharged. We haven't even reached 8 hr recharge for these things yet. There's also the fact that my 2004 Corolla gets better mpg than any electric car currently available.

 

Try ten to thirty minutes for a recharge...

[pack34]

Plus, the drain on the already over worked electrical grid. We can hardly keep up with demand as it is.

 

The grid will only get better when utility companies are forced to, no sooner.

[Kreuger]

Try ten to thirty minutes for a recharge...

 

As if. Got a source for that??

[Growled Member]

The grid will only get better when utility companies are forced to, no sooner.

 

I'm not sure it's that easy. Our electrical infrastructure is old, for good reason. It takes billions of dollars to build a dam or develop other sources of energy. Also, if we started today it would take years to get to a point where we could harness that energy. Plus, consider the environmental impact of such an action. 

[Astra.Xtreme]

I'm not sure it's that easy. Our electrical infrastructure is old, for good reason. It takes billions of dollars to build a dam or develop other sources of energy. Also, if we started today it would take years to get to a point where we could harness that energy. Plus, consider the environmental impact of such an action. 

This exactly.  

 

Coal is unsafe and pollutes badly, so it's becoming less and less of the a source of energy in the US.  Natural Gas is taking over, but we can only go so far.  Nuclear is what we should be building more of, but people are still highly uneducated on that matter, so it's very slowly growing.  The cost and environmental "impact" are the reasons why it's slow and difficult to upgrade the power plants, much less build new ones.

[BillyJack]

We need a competitor like Tesla to move GM otherwise they would not care.

 

The article says that GM has deep pockets. They only have deep pockets because they take handouts. lol

 

I think Tesla can do it. They are focused on one car and one goal. Bring an electric car to the market at a low price. GM has many cars which cost a lot for RD. Granted they are huge, have resources, and experience. I think the auto industry does not try hard enough and that is their doom. We have the same old technology and they implement new technology at too slow of a pace. Think about it. Before us, before our parents they were saying we would soon have flying cars. Cars today still burn gas and run on four tires just like 70+ years ago. I think the auto and oil industry like to bully everyone around while they hold us captive and steal our tax dollars. It is about time someone shakes up the industry and makes them earn their money.

[BillyJack]

Nuclear power is great and I am all for it but I think we have to get a lot of things solved first. We can't have a mistake, not know what to do, quarantine miles of land and hope the wind does not blow. We need better plans and infrastructure for safety. Then we have to come up with a plan how we will clean up the mess and who. If an accident occurs who do we send in to clean the mess. Not me, not you, then who? We need to be able to handle an accident without delay.

[TAZMINATOR]

I really like Tesla but my Chevy Volt is my go-to vehicle.

 

I saw Volt when it came out... but $40,000... damn.

[The Evil Overlord]

Define practical. I consider practical as something that would allow me to do everything I would normally be able to do with an average gasoline family car like a Honda Accord. In this regard, Telsa is entirely practical for day-to-day use. Current range on a Model S is around 300 miles on average. I can't think of anyone who drives that many miles per day unless you are taking a cross state/country trip.

 

Well, the first would be not to try and pick on something I said over 3 weeks ago, second, in the UK and pretty much anywhere where low income families are concerned, where a good fuel economy return is more important, or the commute to work, is more likely, an hour's drive as there is little, if anything, available for work locally, the guessing game for when the electric car will no longer take you or bring you back will bring it's own headaches.

 

Then there's the case of after so many charges, the batteries will need to be replaced, according to Nissan, theirs will be good for 60,000 miles. (2 things that do not concern regular fuelled cars, be they petrol, or diesel)

I'm all for the electric, or hydrogen powered car, the looks of the vehicle do not concern me, but they ain't ready in my opinion to fully challenge a well established ecosystem already in place for internal combustion engines

(more's the pity)

[The Evil Overlord]

Why isn't it practical? If you can get 200-300 miles on a single charge, and it only takes a half hour to charge... The only thing keeping me away is the cost. If they can develop a 30k model then I am absolutely sold. 

Um, that's rapid charging to 80% if you're quoting the Nissan Leaf, which will reduce the battery efficiency if done repeatedly

[Praetor]

not only more affordable cars but the price of the batteries is high; with some cars you have to buy a subscription for the battery as you can't buy the car with the battery as a whole.

[GreenMartian]

We need a competitor like Tesla to move GM otherwise they would not care.

This. Competition is good. We probably won't have the standards-compliant IE11 now, without the (back then) smaller players like Firefox chipping away at their market share.

 

It's a slow and tedious process, changing the mindset of well-established behemoths. But someone has to do it; give the behemoths a kick in the nuts so they'll start moving again (obviously going bankrupt isn't enough of a kick for them...)

[Growled Member]

It's a slow and tedious process, changing the mindset of well-established behemoths. But someone has to do it; give the behemoths a kick in the nuts so they'll start moving again (obviously going bankrupt isn't enough of a kick for them...)

 

I think things will change naturally over time. All it would take is for a gas shortage to occur and for the prices to rise accordingly, and then alternatives will become much more affordable and desirable.

[BillyJack]

This. Competition is good. We probably won't have the standards-compliant IE11 now, without the (back then) smaller players like Firefox chipping away at their market share.

 

It's a slow and tedious process, changing the mindset of well-established behemoths. But someone has to do it; give the behemoths a kick in the nuts so they'll start moving again (obviously going bankrupt isn't enough of a kick for them...)

 

That is why I felt the government should not have bailed them. Survival of the fittest. Either they learn to innovate and succeed or they go away. Then again it is competition although I feel the current auto companies do not compete enough.

[Klownicle]

I still think the Chevy Volt is top bar where electric should be going to right now.  The combination of Gas+Electric capabilities removes the range anxiety that everyone is afraid of.  Yes the infrastructure needs to be developed and the technology as well, but there needs to be a happy medium during this transition.  And the volt is where it is.  So what that it only gets 35-50miles on electric, that's day to day driving for most. The gas engine helps ease the pain of that till the electric finally comes up to snuff with gas.

[ATLien_0]

I'm curious though, what ever happened to GMs big research into Hydrogen fuel cells? That would seem to solve a lot of issues as well if they ever got that working. 

[DocM]

GM and Honda have teamed their fuel cell developments.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmuller/2013/07/02/fuel-cell-cars-back-in-the-limelight-as-gm-honda-team-up-on-mission-to-attack-costs/

[Growled Member]

 

General Motors and Honda Motor say they never stopped working on fuel cell development, however, and now the two carmakers, with 1,200 patents between them, are teaming up to tackle these challenges and try to speed the adoption of fuel cell vehicles by 2020.

 

That is good news.

[cooky560 Veteran]

Try ten to thirty minutes for a recharge...

 

Still not fast enough, if I need to refuel on my way to work for example, or to meet friends, I need the full power in 1 - 2 minutes capability that I get with my petrol powered car.

[PGHammer]

Wow that thing is ugly, haha.  But yeah, there are some hydrogen fuel-cell cars out there that don't get much media attention. Mercedes and BMW have also had models for a few years now.  The biggest problem is that special fuel stations need to be built for these cars to ever have a chance.

 

Looks like Toyota has something interesting being developed:

http://green.autoblog.com/2013/06/30/2015-toyota-hydrogen-fuel-cell-car-will-have-300-mile-range/

Not all THAT special - hydrogen fueling stations can be done on the same scale that CNG fueling stations have been; the same applies to pipelines.

 

The problem with hydrogen has been at the two ends (the vehicle end and the generation end) - not the middle.  (Oddly enough, the same is true of CNG - as I pointed out, CNG and hydrogen for vehicles aren't all that different; what's more, CNG is in use today.  The issue with CNG is that practicality is screwed over by lack of a fueling-facility system; even Royal Dutch Shell - the largest operator of CNG fueling stations in the US - doesn't have them everywhere, primarily due to regulatory issues.  Do you have ANY idea how many hoops there are to jump through to build a CNG fuel station, even for government fleet use?  Even biodiesel - which is primarily sourced from waste vegetable oil used in the quick-service restaurant business - is forced to go through quite a few hoops itself.  It's why CNG and biodiesel are primarily confined to fleet usage - in fact, the military, specifically, the United States Air Force, is among the largest users of both CNG and biodiesel.)