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ObiWanToby

SteamOS

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No, you don't know what it does at all. You made that painfully obvious in your previous post. The statement that Linux boots slower than other OSes at this point is nothing more than FUD or ignorance.

 

I can't personally comment on the "Steam update issue" as I opt-in to the Client beta and do get daily updates as a result, but if the news feed for the stable client is anything to go by, your comments are false.

 

I didn't call it slowet than other OS. but it's boot speed to usable desktop isn't necessarily fast, and depends largely on your complete desktop system . 

 

and if you're going to throw the ignorance word around, maybe you should then look in the mirror as well, since you seem to get off on finding creative ways to throw insults my way while barely skirting the rules, and not using the terms like ignorance correctly. So in closing, Grow up. 

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I didn't call it slowet than other OS. but it's boot speed to usable desktop isn't necessarily fast, and depends largely on your complete desktop system . 

 

and if you're going to throw the ignorance word around, maybe you should then look in the mirror as well, since you seem to get off on finding creative ways to throw insults my way while barely skirting the rules, and not using the terms like ignorance correctly. So in closing, Grow up. 

 

Uh, yeah. You did. Unless there is a third temporal axis to "not booting fast" that isn't booting fast.

 

Your claims are completely without base, and there is plenty of evidence to the contrary. You're simplying spreading FUD.

 

Why should I look in the mirror? I'm not the one jumping into threads throwing around FUD and then resorting to accusations of trolling when proven wrong.

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If your posts from that other thread weren't proof enough that you're incapable of practicing what you preach, this one is more than enough.

 

 

Then you clearly don't know much about Linux at all. systemd, look it up.

 

That's the issue with Linux right there when you're talking about a gaming OS replacement. Unless you've used it for a very, very long time, you're gonna have to look things up - even simple things. I know people who use Windows all day, every day, and they don't know anything other than it's easy to install stuff and play games or launch applications. I still believe the SteamOS changes nothing in the grand scheme of things because it's limited to Steam and Steam games. If Blizzard/Activision, EA, Ubisoft and basically every other gaming publisher started to work together to develop for unix then it would definitely cause some changes, but until that happens and until using linux is as user friendly as Windows (if not more so, meaning no need to ever use terminal for anything) then it's not going to be a valid replacement except for the hardcore crowd. 

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That's the issue with Linux right there when you're talking about a gaming OS replacement. Unless you've used it for a very, very long time, you're gonna have to look things up - even simple things. I know people who use Windows all day, every day, and they don't know anything other than it's easy to install stuff and play games or launch applications. I still believe the SteamOS changes nothing in the grand scheme of things because it's limited to Steam and Steam games. If Blizzard/Activision, EA, Ubisoft and basically every other gaming publisher started to work together to develop for unix then it would definitely cause some changes, but until that happens and until using linux is as user friendly as Windows (if not more so, meaning no need to ever use terminal for anything) then it's not going to be a valid replacement except for the hardcore crowd. 

 

That's the equivalent of saying you're going to have to look up how to do things in FreeBSD if you're planning on buying a PS4. It's not going to be a general purpose linux distro, it's going to boot up to Big Picture Mode and you can do anything game-related from there. It's no different than any of the other console OS's. You don't need to know how the underlying architecture works to use the front-end interface.

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That's the equivalent of saying you're going to have to look up how to do things in FreeBSD if you're planning on buying a PS4. It's not going to be a general purpose linux distro, it's going to boot up to Big Picture Mode and you can do anything game-related from there. It's no different than any of the other console OS's. You don't need to know how the underlying architecture works to use the front-end interface.

 

I was talking about Linux in general. SteamOS will let be just like steam and you can click and play your games pretty easy, but that's ONLY steam game as I said in the post. If someone really wanted to have a complete gaming os replacement they won't be using steamos. They'll have to use a normal linux distro and normal computer users will not be able to use it as easily as they can windows when they want to install games not found on steam. 

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 I still believe the SteamOS changes nothing in the grand scheme of things because it's limited to Steam and Steam games. 

 

If they come up with a SteamBox that runs Steam games with SteamOS, that would be huge. A lot of us would buy one. It would really be no different from buying any other console.

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If they come up with a SteamBox that runs Steam games with SteamOS, that would be huge. A lot of us would buy one. It would really be no different from buying any other console.

 

 

Depending on price of course.  I wonder if they will aim small at first, something like a $99 box for streaming from a pc, or if they will announce some $500 box with hardware comparable to the next gen consoles.

 

I just don't know if a bunch of pc gamers would be interested in that when they already have a pc with Steam on it.

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That's the issue with Linux right there when you're talking about a gaming OS replacement. Unless you've used it for a very, very long time, you're gonna have to look things up - even simple things. I know people who use Windows all day, every day, and they don't know anything other than it's easy to install stuff and play games or launch applications. I still believe the SteamOS changes nothing in the grand scheme of things because it's limited to Steam and Steam games. If Blizzard/Activision, EA, Ubisoft and basically every other gaming publisher started to work together to develop for unix then it would definitely cause some changes, but until that happens and until using linux is as user friendly as Windows (if not more so, meaning no need to ever use terminal for anything) then it's not going to be a valid replacement except for the hardcore crowd. 

 

That is an incredibly clich? and very outdated notion about Linux that has not been true for some time. Not every Linux distro is like Gentoo.

 

I was talking about Linux in general. SteamOS will let be just like steam and you can click and play your games pretty easy, but that's ONLY steam game as I said in the post. If someone really wanted to have a complete gaming os replacement they won't be using steamos. They'll have to use a normal linux distro and normal computer users will not be able to use it as easily as they can windows when they want to install games not found on steam. 

 

You're not really in a position to say what SteamOS will or won't do, nobody is. What is unlikely however is that SteamOS will limit the use of non-steam games, as being an OSS project it would just be instantly forked sans the limitations.

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and why would valve with less support and no install base get more support from hardware makers than established and widely used distros? Makes no sense.

 

 

When it comes to gfx cards at least, SteamOS users would be more likely to buy expensive equipment than your average Linux user, as your average Linux user isn't building gaming rigs.

That might be a reason for Nvidia and AMD to give more support to SteamOS (or Linux in general because of SteamOS) than to other more stablished distros (or Linux as a whole because of those other more stablished distros).

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 You're not really in a position to say what SteamOS will or won't do, nobody is. What is unlikely however is that SteamOS will limit the use of non-steam games, as being an OSS project it would just be instantly forked sans the limitations.

 

 

I think your missing the point here.  Android can be modded too, but that doesn't mean most users will want to or be able to do that.

 

If SteamOS is meant to aim for a console like experience and reach the general gamer market, that means it needs to be as easy to use as possible.  That means that regardless of what a modder can do with Linux, most users are just going to judge it based on what the stock experience is and limit their usage to that.  Until we see otherwise, I think its likely that the stock SteamOS experience is one that limits usage to Steam content (i.e. games, and whatever non gaming apps are added).  I mean that's perfectly in line with Valve's goal of a focused gaming experience.

 

The percentage of people that will install a modified form of the SteamOS to say act more like a standard Linux install will be as small as the percentage of Linux users today. 

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That is an incredibly clich? and very outdated notion about Linux that has not been true for some time. Not every Linux distro is like Gentoo.

 

 

You're not really in a position to say what SteamOS will or won't do, nobody is. What is unlikely however is that SteamOS will limit the use of non-steam games, as being an OSS project it would just be instantly forked sans the limitations.

 

Not really. I use elementary and there are still times when I have to use Terminal. That kind of stuff needs to be completely and utterly gone.

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I think your missing the point here.  Android can be modded too, but that doesn't mean most users will want to or be able to do that.

 

If SteamOS is meant to aim for a console like experience and reach the general gamer market, that means it needs to be as easy to use as possible.  That means that regardless of what a modder can do with Linux, most users are just going to judge it based on what the stock experience is and limit their usage to that.  Until we see otherwise, I think its likely that the stock SteamOS experience is one that limits usage to Steam content (i.e. games, and whatever non gaming apps are added).  I mean that's perfectly in line with Valve's goal of a focused gaming experience.

 

The percentage of people that will install a modified form of the SteamOS to say act more like a standard Linux install will be as small as the percentage of Linux users today. 

 

Android isn't comparable in this regard due to the nature of rooting and flashing ROMs and so forth. We're talking about a tailored Linux distro, sure it might be really easy to use (By default loading into BPM) - but that doesn't mean it has to be locked down.

 

Not really. I use elementary and there are still times when I have to use Terminal. That kind of stuff needs to be completely and utterly gone.

 

And how much of that is due to you making changes that a "regular" user would not?

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Not really. I use elementary and there are still times when I have to use Terminal. That kind of stuff needs to be completely and utterly gone.

I use Windows and there are still a few times when I have to use Command Prompt. What's your point? :p

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I use Windows and there are still a few times when I have to use Command Prompt. What's your point? :p

 

Not to install or play something, lol.

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Android isn't comparable in this regard due to the nature of rooting and flashing ROMs and so forth. We're talking about a tailored Linux distro, sure it might be really easy to use (By default loading into BPM) - but that doesn't mean it has to be locked down.

 

Again, its not about being locked down or not, its about what Valve wants users to experience.

 

SteamOS is not meant to promote Linux, its meant to promote all things Steam in a way that's easy for any user to operate on a TV, again, like a console. 

 

So yes, I have no doubt that people will take SteamOS and tailor it for their uses, but that wont amount to some tsunami of other Linux support.  If anything is successful, it will be SteamOS on a Steambox.  Linux has become a popular base or framework for these custom OSes due to its cost and open access.  It seems like its future is in that direction, not as a standalone desktop OS.

 

I just think some people are getting way too excited about things other than what Valve is aiming for.

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Depending on price of course.  I wonder if they will aim small at first, something like a $99 box for streaming from a pc, or if they will announce some $500 box with hardware comparable to the next gen consoles.

 

I just don't know if a bunch of pc gamers would be interested in that when they already have a pc with Steam on it.

 

I think they will go small, myself. If they don't this might not ever get off the ground. At $99 it would fly off the shelves. At $500, not so much.

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I think they will go small, myself. If they don't this might not ever get off the ground. At $99 it would fly off the shelves. At $500, not so much.

 

 

I wonder what will be more popular, a $99 Vita TV, or a $99 Steambox.

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I can think of many benefits:

- no antivirus software running in the background. Ofcourse

- fast boot (under 10 seconds possible on a HDD, a few seconds on an SSD).Pretty much my case with stock Ubuntu LTS 12.04

- low OS resource usage (if based on LXDE/XCFE RAM usage would be under 100MB easily) Sys. Stats confirmed

- gives Windows/Mac users a chance to discover Linux   surely to some extent.

- if free, reduces Windows pirating, which is still a big problem. If I don't have to use windows, I wouldn't have to pirate it

+1.

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I wonder what will be more popular, a $99 Vita TV, or a $99 Steambox.

 

Personally I'd go with a Steambox. 

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"... there will be multiple SteamOS machines to choose from, made by different manufacturers."

"We'll tell you more about it soon."

"We promise we'll tell you more about it soon."

"We'll have more details to tell you, soon."

"Stay tuned, though - we have some more to say very soon on the topic of input."

 

So much information about the hardware!

:rolleyes:

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Feel quite disappointing. And their whole deal about how "consoles"should have one set of hardware shows they don't understand why people buy consoles.

To make that work they would need something like nvidia experience built in, and as good as that works, it's not very good at setting "optimized" settings.

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If every game developer out there ports to OpenGL instead of DirectX it will be a wonderful thing. Until then....

 

I don't think so. DirectX is maintained by Microsoft and they do a great job being consistent with the software. I am not entirely familiar with OpenGL but if it is like the web standards then think about all of the people who try to set the standard and how long it takes to release a version. If OpenGL was the same it would take 10 to 20 years just to get out a version. Think about how slow and horrible that would be. At least DirectX moves along at a fast pace and we get the features in software and hardware quickly.

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No drivers sounds nice but I think that could be bad. If there is one driver then there is one graphics card. No competition. No choice. If the driver did work for several graphic cards then driver would be general and would hold back graphic cards specially newer cards since they would have to remain backward compatible and cannot break the driver.

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No drivers sounds nice but I think that could be bad. If there is one driver then there is one graphics card. No competition. No choice. If the driver did work for several graphic cards then driver would be general and would hold back graphic cards specially newer cards since they would have to remain backward compatible and cannot break the driver.

Who said no drivers? That doesn't make any sense.

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