SteamOS

[McKay]

My fear would be having to keep your fingers crossed that your favorite games will even see the light of Linux. With Windows it's more or less a guarantee, unless it's a console exclusive. 

[Athernar]

Umm modern UI is a full shell that runs in parallel with desktop shell on top of explorer. It's not an app, an auto start app would be steam on windows set to auto start.

Valve gains everything by making it a DE. They already have the client for Linux computers running as regular desktops, this is not a desktop, this is a gaming and media machine, not an all purpose OS/machine.

That's why it's SteamOS and not steam for Linux.

And how does it limit their cross platform potential. It doesn't affect it at all. Are you even reading what you write ?

 

Both Explorer and Metro are executables that run within the Windows DE, they are switched between easily and that is exactly what would be achieved by using BPM.

 

Think about this for a second. Making their UI an entire DE limits the ability of users to use said UI on other platforms. It's an artificial (and bulky) limitation that increases the amount of work Valve have to contribute and maintain to no benefit of their own.

 

Considering how you love to bang on about how much Gabe hates Microsoft and blah blah blah, do you think Valve are really just going to put SteamOS out there and leave it as is? One would think that such a "hater" as you claim would do what he could to replace Windows as much as possible, and the DE route will impede that.

[HawkMan]

Both Explorer and Metro are executables that run within the Windows DE, they are switched between easily and that is exactly what would be achieved by using BPM.

 

Think about this for a second. Making their UI an entire DE limits the ability of users to use said UI on other platforms. It's an artificial (and bulky) limitation that increases the amount of work Valve have to contribute and maintain to no benefit of their own.

 

Considering how you love to bang on about how much Gabe hates Microsoft and blah blah blah, do you think Valve are really just going to put SteamOS out there and leave it as is? One would think that such a "hater" as you claim would do what he could to replace Windows as much as possible, and the DE route will impede that.

 

All DE's are essentially executables. 

 

why would it limit the users ability to use the UI on other platforms. you can't run the linux client on windows anyway, and they already have a linux client. if they where just using that, this whole announcement and SteamOS would be nothing. 

 

The DE route won't impede anything, it'll only simplify the experience, which is the goal of this. those who want to use their linux computers for more use the regular Ubuntu client. 

 

and I see you're still insistent about breaking the rules and trolling and calling people names. 

[Athernar]

All DE's are essentially executables. 

 

why would it limit the users ability to use the UI on other platforms. you can't run the linux client on windows anyway, and they already have a linux client. if they where just using that, this whole announcement and SteamOS would be nothing. 

 

The DE route won't impede anything, it'll only simplify the experience, which is the goal of this. those who want to use their linux computers for more use the regular Ubuntu client. 

 

and I see you're still insistent about breaking the rules and trolling and calling people names. 

 

Making it a DE simplifies nothing, it's just a completely arbitrary restriction and burden on Valve.

 

Did you read the announcement page? SteamOS is not just a livingroom UI, the entire focus is to provide a Linux distro that is optimized for gaming and allows for both hardware manufacturers and game developers to contribute to and optimize the platform for their products.

 

I have no idea what on earth you're trying to get at by saying the Linux client doesn't run on Windows. Of course it doesn't, that's why there is a Windows client that has feature parity, just like there is a Mac client too.

 

and I see you still have the same mistaken definitions of what trolling and name calling constitutes. stop trolling please.

[trooper11]

Gabe has serious issue with MS because they created an app store that has the potential to compete with his Steam platform.

 

That has been a huge motivation for him to make this move, to start offering a platform where Steam is the focus and insures Steam's control over a potentially very profitable market going forward.

 

I don't think Gabe or Valve is interested in creating a rival desktop OS, something that people use for all of their general computing needs like Windows.  I think they know that there is little reason to pursue that, when they can instead make a name for themselves by focusing on the market that they current cater to: gaming

 

I'm not sure why its so hard to accept that Valve may not be trying to build a Linux desktop, but instead trying to create a console like environment in the pc world.  There are advantages to the console ideas such as a unified interface focused on gaming and media consumption, allowing for Valve to push a unified UI that is simpler to use for the general gamer vs a Linux or windows general use pc.  This is not a knock against Linux or windows, its just the nature of a general use computer and a device with a more focused approach.

 

But hey, maybe we see Valve come out and show us a pc that boots to a Linux desktop and promote it as a general use OS for people to completely replace a Windows or other Linux distro OS that also happens to have a Steam app installed.  I just don't get that impression based on their words so far.

[patseguin Global Moderator]

That is completely hyperbolic. In most cases the drivers are either fully functional out of the box (intel), partially-mostly functional out of the box (AMD), or need a proprietary driver for any decent functionality (Nvidia). Most distros have automated installation for the proprietary drivers where its just a few clicks to install and run them... Not really any harder than installing them on windows.

I guess if you consider a few clicks rocket science...

Well I must admit I've been away from Linux for a while . Used to be that I had to find the driver and then use command line to install.

[ichi]

Well I must admit I've been away from Linux for a while . Used to be that I had to find the driver and then use command line to install.

 

It used to be too that if you compiled  (ie. downloaded, built and installed) a driver and later updater your kernel you'd have to compile it again, which is fortunately also no longer the case thanks to DKMS.

[Growled Member]

My fear would be having to keep your fingers crossed that your favorite games will even see the light of Linux. With Windows it's more or less a guarantee, unless it's a console exclusive. 

 

I can see that being a problem in the short term. In the long run, if Valve continues to stick to Linux as their platform of choice, all these issues will be worked out.

[medhunter]

I can see that being a problem in the short term. In the long run, if Valve continues to stick to Linux as their platform of choice, all these issues will be worked out.

 

I have to order more and more patience for the coming year

[trooper11]

I can see that being a problem in the short term. In the long run, if Valve continues to stick to Linux as their platform of choice, all these issues will be worked out.

 

 

The only issue I see there is that not all game publishers/developers support Steam or release on their service.  Basically, what this is all about is Valve trying to be the sole source for buying pc games and whatever non gaming apps are around.  Would someone like EA be interested in seeing Valve become the gaming platform?

[Growled Member]

  Would someone like EA be interested in seeing Valve become the gaming platform?

 

I can see them supporting it if they can make money on it. Some game publishers like EA are software people and don't care about the platform. Xbox or PS4 or Steam is all the same to them, I would think.

[PGHammer]

Gabe has serious issue with MS because they created an app store that has the potential to compete with his Steam platform.

 

That has been a huge motivation for him to make this move, to start offering a platform where Steam is the focus and insures Steam's control over a potentially very profitable market going forward.

 

I don't think Gabe or Valve is interested in creating a rival desktop OS, something that people use for all of their general computing needs like Windows.  I think they know that there is little reason to pursue that, when they can instead make a name for themselves by focusing on the market that they current cater to: gaming

 

I'm not sure why its so hard to accept that Valve may not be trying to build a Linux desktop, but instead trying to create a console like environment in the pc world.  There are advantages to the console ideas such as a unified interface focused on gaming and media consumption, allowing for Valve to push a unified UI that is simpler to use for the general gamer vs a Linux or windows general use pc.  This is not a knock against Linux or windows, its just the nature of a general use computer and a device with a more focused approach.

 

But hey, maybe we see Valve come out and show us a pc that boots to a Linux desktop and promote it as a general use OS for people to completely replace a Windows or other Linux distro OS that also happens to have a Steam app installed.  I just don't get that impression based on their words so far.

And right now, that is all it has - potential; the bigger threats the Windows App Store is to are to the iOS App Store and to Google Play.

Otherwise, the Windows 8 App Store is no threat whatever to Steam - if anything, the Windows 8 App Store is a benefit for Steam (consider that Fruit Ninja HD started as a Windows 8 demo title; now it's on Steam and Google Play in addition to the Windows App Store) because developers can start a small game in the Windows App Store and "graduate" to Steam later (the exact course followed by Fruit Ninja HD).

Further, Steam (and everything Windows-capable distributed thereby) runs on Windows 8.x just fine - here's an odd reality check - the Steam version of the DC Universe Online client is more stable than the NATIVE client in Windows 8.1.  (The native client has rather odd issues with Flash that the Steam-based version of the same client does NOT have; even moire surprising, it is the only SOE F2P native client to have the issues with Flash and Windows 8.1.)

[LaP]

So why use SteamOs and not just Steam on Windows that can already do that?

 

Cause Windows is 200$ if you want to own it legally?

[HawkMan]

Cause Windows is 200$ if you want to own it legally?

 

Or $99.99 if you live in the real world

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832416550

[LaP]

Or $99.99 if you live in the real world

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832416550

 

The full boxed copy (non OEM) of Windows 8 pro upgrade is usually 200$. It is curently 70$ on Newegg (80$ on Amazon) but the normal price is 200$.

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832416562

http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Windows-8-Pro-Upgrade/dp/B008H3SW4I/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1380310658&sr=8-1&keywords=windows+8+pro

 

Nice try though.

[HawkMan]

There is no full version of Windows 8.

 

there is OEM and upgrade. 

 

Also upgrade are usually cheaper than the OEM and also, that is the pro version. also list price/RRP is a meaningless measure that no one follows. 

 

So not only did you fail to link a full version in your defense of the high price of the full version, you also failed to prove the price of said full version. And the OEM version IS the full version(though due to pressure from idiots they will add a full retail package with 8.1), the pro version of the OEM is also $140. Though then explain to me why you think you need the pro version over the normal full version. 

[dead.cell]

There is no full version of Windows 8.

 

there is OEM and upgrade. 

 

Also upgrade are usually cheaper than the OEM and also, that is the pro version. also list price/RRP is a meaningless measure that no one follows. 

 

So not only did you fail to link a full version in your defense of the high price of the full version, you also failed to prove the price of said full version. And the OEM version IS the full version(though due to pressure from idiots they will add a full retail package with 8.1), the pro version of the OEM is also $140. Though then explain to me why you think you need the pro version over the normal full version. 

Microsoft wants $119.99 for an upgrade to Windows 8.

 

Looks like the OEM you linked is actually cheaper than the upgrade... :huh:

 

(somehow I feel we're getting off topic though)

[trooper11]

The full boxed copy (non OEM) of Windows 8 pro upgrade is usually 200$. It is curently 70$ on Newegg (80$ on Amazon) but the normal price is 200$.

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832416562

http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Windows-8-Pro-Upgrade/dp/B008H3SW4I/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1380310658&sr=8-1&keywords=windows+8+pro

 

Nice try though.

 

ummm, why would someone buy the boxed version when the oem version is so much cheaper?

 

Anyone that is building their own pc can go on Amazon and see the oem versions are cheaper. 

 

How about we not get so off topic with a silly argument like the cost of Windows to the end user.

 

 

I can see them supporting it if they can make money on it. Some game publishers like EA are software people and don't care about the platform. Xbox or PS4 or Steam is all the same to them, I would think.

 

 

Then why did EA create the Origin service and cut back support of Steam?  They obviously felt there was more profit to be had by not working with Steam.

 

Here is a question, does Valve get a cut of all sales that go through Steam?  I had assumed that the answer was yes, but I don't know for sure.

 

Either way, Steam is a store basically and Valve wants to create an OS where Steam is front and center, providing you with a complete gaming experience.  They want you to only buy from their store.  Compare that to Windows today.  MS has a Windows Store where they also take a piece of each sale.  The difference is that their is already a strong pc gaming market that is open for anyone to use and MS has done nothing to get in the way of that. 

[dead.cell]

Then why did EA create the Origin service and cut back support of Steam?  They obviously felt there was more profit to be had by not working with Steam.

 

Here is a question, does Valve get a cut of all sales that go through Steam?  I had assumed that the answer was yes, but I don't know for sure.

 

Either way, Steam is a store basically and Valve wants to create an OS where Steam is front and center, providing you with a complete gaming experience.  They want you to only buy from their store.  Compare that to Windows today.  MS has a Windows Store where they also take a piece of each sale.  The difference is that their is already a strong pc gaming market that is open for anyone to use and MS has done nothing to get in the way of that.

You're right, however it isn't that they could make more money off their games by not going with Valve, but rather they were likely more influenced by the potential of money they could MAKE by having a similar platform on their hands, with big "AAA" games to back it.

 

If they really cared about the money they could make for a single game, they'd have released to Steam considering most PC gamers are on Steam and made a buttload of money. However, by pulling people onto their platform, they're making an investment to make more money in the future. EA is thinking big picture here (and not of the Steam kind lol).

 

As a gamer, I welcome more competition at least. Though, I still stay a bit wary of EA just because of their history and continued practices.

 

Edit - Also, I like how negative some people are about Steam OS, being quick to dismiss it entirely while Microsoft prefers to pay attention to what's going on. Just goes to show that sometimes the fans are much worse in how they put on blinders to ignore everything else, than the companies they actually support.

 

"The announcement was only made last night so I'm still studying all the facts Valve has released. But Valve is a very impressive company, and obviously we're going to be watching what they do with great interest." - Phil Harrison

[trooper11]

You're right, however it isn't that they could make more money off their games by not going with Valve, but rather they were likely more influenced by the potential of money they could MAKE by having a similar platform on their hands, with big "AAA" games to back it.

 

If they really cared about the money they could make for a single game, they'd have released to Steam considering most PC gamers are on Steam and made a buttload of money. However, by pulling people onto their platform, they're making an investment to make more money in the future. EA is thinking big picture here (and not of the Steam kind lol).

 

As a gamer, I welcome more competition at least. Though, I still stay a bit wary of EA just because of their history and continued practices.

 

 

I agree, that's how I take the whole EA deal.  We can be wary of EA sure, but I think we can also agree that it probably isn't terrible business wise to be wary of Valve.

 

That's why I'm wondering how successful Valve can really be with this move.  I know everyone wants to avoid comparing it to a console, but lets face reality here.  Valve is making a pitch for a new console platform.  Yes its a Linux OS dressed in Steam clothing, but Valve's own words tells us that they are aiming for a Steam platform top to bottom.  That would be like MS creating a version of windows where the only store for games was the Windows Store (which by the way is basically what the X1 is).

 

I'm very interested to see how this all progresses.  In the end, I hope it spurs more overall competition and improvements to the gaming experience.  I also hope it means MS gets into high gear to do what it can to make the gaming experience on Windows as good as it can be.  For Valve and Steam itself, I'm personally more interested in how they continue to improve the Steam app on Windows.  However, if they can prove to me that gaming is drastically better via SteamOS than Windows, I will give it a try myself.

[Grinch]

Man I love watching this thread. Brings me some entertainment heh.

 

I do not understand why someone is arguing over the pro version of Windows 8 costing $200, big whoop. Not everyone is going to go for the pro version. The basic version is $119.99 from Microsoft, the pro version is $199.99 from Microsoft and the pro pack (upgrade from basic to pro) is $99.99, again, from Microsoft. Deal with it already. I'm not even sure what was being argued about it but honestly if you're going to compare the price of something, compare all the prices, because comparing the highest price is just dumb.

 

I'm done now. :p

[Growled Member]

So now we have SteamOS, the Steam Box, and now the Steam Controller.

 

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57605010-93/goodbye-thumbsticks-valve-unveils-steam-controller-with-pc-like-trackpads/

 

This is gonna be so awesome.

[trooper11]

So now we have SteamOS, the Steam Box, and now the Steam Controller.

 

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57605010-93/goodbye-thumbsticks-valve-unveils-steam-controller-with-pc-like-trackpads/

 

This is gonna be so awesome.

 

 

Yeah that controller is very interesting.  I don't know if I like it or not, but I really want to try it out.  I hope its usable outside of Steam as well. 

 

I'll say this for Valve, they are trying to do something different with that controller, so I commend them for that.  Now we will have to wait and see if the whole package amounts to something great or a disappointment.

[HawkMan]

speaking of bad linux drivers and install problems. I just installed mint 15 on my old laptop with an nvidia card(since my new one needs to go in again, it's an Acer and I got the monday model apparently...) the OS based on the same os SteamOS will be based on. go into the easy to use one click driver manager. click the Nvidia -310 recommended driver, and click apply changes. it works for about a second, then finished and the checkbox is back to the POS xserverblablablabla-nouveau driver....

 

easy peasy ;)

[Growled Member]

^ Not to nitpick, but I thought SteamOS was based on Ubuntu 12.04 LTS?