Valve releases hardware specs for Steam Machine prototype

[Blackhearted]

Others are dropping AMD cards from their gaming PCs as well: http://www.engadget.com/2013/10/04/origin-pc-drops-amd-graphics-options/

 

Shame. In my experience with gpus over the past 10+ years it's been the opposite. AMD(and ATI) have been much more reliable in terms of not flat out failing on me way too early.

[Max Norris]

Shame. In my experience with gpus over the past 10+ years it's been the opposite. AMD(and ATI) have been much more reliable in terms of not flat out failing on me way too early.

More or less ditto -- for me anyway, and with the particular handful of cards I've owned from both, I usually get the best results with AMD for Windows and nVidia under Linux. I've had wonky AMD drivers sure, I'd bet everyone has, but I've had nutty nVidia drivers on occasion too, find the "sweet spot" for version numbers depending on the card. No complaints with hardware from either of them, I think I've had one with a bad fan once a while back, but have had cards from both that lasted a good long time. Hell one of my test machines still has an old X850 in it, and another with a (lol) nVidia TNT2 card, circa '99.

[Athernar]

Not really a hard stretch. We already know it's running Linux and we know it's designed for the living room.. just taking a random distro and pre-installing the desktop version of Steam doesn't sound terribly suitable for that sort of setup, never mind they're billing it as it's own OS. What are they expecting users to do, navigate the Kickoff menu or something to start Steam? Besides, since the thing is just a PC anyway, you can slap whatever OS on it you want after the fact, Linux, Windows, whatever.

 

Why would they expect users to navigate anything? They could quite easily make it load into Big Picture automatically, akin to Metro on 8.1 providing the user doesn't choose to disable it. That way they can continue to update BPM for everyone rather than have to maintain two versions of the same thing.

 

It's going to be like Android is on an Amazon Kindle, meant for gaming with consumption and media also added. It won't be a full fledged OS, just go mess with their Big Picture feature in Steam now, that will give you a general idea.

 

Flawed assumption.

[Max Norris]

Why would they expect users to navigate anything? They could quite easily make it load into Big Picture automatically, akin to Metro on 8.1 providing the user doesn't choose to disable it. That way they can continue to update BPM for everyone rather than have to maintain two versions of the same thing.

So SteamOS is just whatever desktop distro with a shortcut to automatically launch a program, then slap a big ol' price tag on it? Color me underwhelmed. Xendrome's idea is much more plausible considering what they're billing this thing to be designed for.

[Crisp]

Hmm... Only nvidia cards eh?

 

Fanboys don't like AMD.

[n_K]

There's probably no ATI cards because as previously mentioned ATI doesn't seem to care about breaking compatibility, not fixing problems or not updating GFX drivers for linux.

I wouldn't ever get an ATI card for a linux PC based purely on how crap I've seen them be with drivers.

[theyarecomingforyou]

It's bizarre that people here are suggesting that the PSU won't be suitable when it's specially designed for the systems. The average power consumption of a Core i7 system with a GTX Titan during gaming is 311W and while the peak is higher it's safe to assume that the system will be optimised to accommodate that and will dynamically alter clocks accordingly - same with temperature, as the latest range of nVidia cards can dynamically clock to temperature. That figure is based on a standard processor, so I imagine the power consumption for these systems will be lower due to the use of mobile processors.

 

The price is obviously going to be an issue to start with but we don't yet know of the pricing plans and we may see a subscription-based model like with mobile phones to soften the blow. Further, over the years the price will drop and performance will increase to put pressure on the next-gen consoles.

 

Steam Machines aren't for everyone but I for one am glad that Valve is daring to try something different. I wish them all the best, though I'll probably only buy the controller.

[Athernar]

So SteamOS is just whatever desktop distro with a shortcut to automatically launch a program, then slap a big ol' price tag on it? Color me underwhelmed. Xendrome's idea is much more plausible considering what they're billing this thing to be designed for.

 

You're not paying for the OS, you're paying for the hardware. The OS is just an effort to provide a centralised target for pulling in optimisations from the community, while not being chained to the decisions of 3rd-parties like Canonical.

 

So unless you're the kind of person that gets very upset about minor technical details that make no difference as far as the frontend is concerned, there is little reason to go for such an approach.

[Aergan]

If they have an XPC class Shuttle / Delta supplied PSU, I can see how they can get away with only a 450w.

[Max Norris]

You're not paying for the OS, you're paying for the hardware.

Yea I get that. So basically it's just yet another generic PC with a different sticker on the case. Basically, "what's the point?"

 

The OS is just an effort to provide a centralised target for pulling in optimisations from the community, while not being chained to the decisions of 3rd-parties like Canonical.

Which is exactly why it won't be a desktop OS, otherwise they're chained to 3rd party decisions. Linux kernel running their own thing. And since they're designing this for the living room, I see zero sense in them investing time and money into developing yet another DE for a setup that doesn't need one to begin with.

[Astra.Xtreme]

I'm also curious how they are making this thing under 3 inches tall.  Do they have some sort of specially designed components or something?  A GPU, CPU w/ cooler, and PSU are all well over 3 inches tall.  The CPU cooler could be specially designed to be slim, and the PSU could be a smaller than typical form factor, but I can't see Nvidia designing special versions of their GPUs just for them.  

 

A typical GPU is around 4.5" tall and then you need more room to connect the power connectors (if they're on top).

[Athernar]

Yea I get that. So basically it's just yet another generic PC with a different sticker on the case. Basically, "what's the point?"

Which is exactly why it won't be a desktop OS, otherwise they're changed to 3rd party decisions. Linux kernel running their own thing.

 

By your "logic" they shouldn't even be using the Linux kernel either, be sensible please. There is a difference between pulling in 3rd-party components and rolling with another distro, a prime example being Ubuntu/Mir.

[Max Norris]

By your "logic" they shouldn't even be using the Linux kernel either, be sensible please. There is a difference between pulling in 3rd-party components and rolling with another distro, a prime example being Ubuntu/Mir.

Why wouldn't they be using the Linux kernel? They're designing this thing for Linux to begin with, not sure why you pulled something silly like that out of what I said... and you even said it yourself, "pulling in third party components"... they're still dealing with a third party, get it? What's much more likely is writing their own thing that runs on the Linux kernel that they have 100% control and ownership of. Google did it. Amazon did it. Why not Valve? Makes a lot more sense than pulling in a full desktop environment, never mind the baggage that goes with it.

[+LogicalApex MVC]

I do believe that it is severely underpowered for efficiency and longevity reasons, which is why 450W will likely be for entry-level configurations. Stupid, however, is putting a kilowatt in there, not the other way around. PSU is a critical component, but watt-craze must be limited. May I suggest a watt-meter in this regard?

Doubtful. Very rarely do machines command as much as they claim to command on the label. The OEM has to over recommend wattage requirements because they can't be certain you're using a quality PSU and low end mess commonly over rates its capabilities. Also keep in mind that 80+ Gold PSUs are required to deliver high levels of efficiency at full load.

 

I hooked a Kill-A-Watt meter to my desktop a few years back with two video cards (GTX 560 + GTX 260, non-SLI) and 8 spinning HDDs. It idles at around 200W and drew less than 300W on load... from the wall. This was all ran on an Antec 650W PSU which is still working fine.

 

PSU companies make a lot of money on the excessive wattage over buying by consumers who are supposed to know better though...

[Athernar]

Why wouldn't they be using the Linux kernel? They're designing this thing for Linux to begin with, not sure why you pulled something silly like that out of what I said... and you even said it yourself, "pulling in third party components"... they're still dealing with a third party, get it? What's much more likely is writing their own thing that runs on the Linux kernel that they have 100% control and ownership of. Google did it. Amazon did it. Why not Valve? Makes a lot more sense than pulling in a full desktop environment, never mind the baggage that goes with it.

 

Uh, you're the one that took the original statement to absurdity. That is if you do honestly think 3rd-party distros are equivalent in scope to simply using 3rd-party components. I merely continued on with where you took it.

 

You act like using an existing DE would entail baggage, yet creating and maintaining their own somehow would not? Despite the fact that in doing so means they'll have to wade into the mess of display servers.

[Lamp0]

If it comes with a Titan the price is going to be well over 1000$   I figured the Steam Machine would be around PS4/XB1 pricing.  

 

Why would you think that? Valve were never trying to make a console here.

[Max Norris]

Uh, you're the one that took the original statement to absurdity. That is if you do honestly think 3rd-party distros are equivalent in scope to simply using 3rd-party components. I simply continued on with where you took it. You act like using an existing DE would entail baggage, yet creating and maintaining their own somehow would not? Despite the fact that in doing so means they'll have to wade into the mess of display servers.

Umm going by your post. "Why would they expect users to navigate anything? They could quite easily make it load into Big Picture automatically, akin to Metro on 8.1 providing the user doesn't choose to disable it." You're implying a full blown desktop OS right there, otherwise what's there to disable? And do you honestly think that you can just "pull in" some random component and expect it to work without any of the dependencies and other baggage that does go with it? Not sure where you're getting that I said there wouldn't be baggage... kind of obvious there is no matter what they do, kind of how software works and all that.. but as soon as you dabble with the various desktops, well, there's a lot of baggage that goes with that. Take a look sometime.

You also said "chained to third parties". Pulling in anything involves third parties. If they pull in a desktop OS and they suddenly did a drastic change, oh I don't know, maybe like how Gnome, Unity and KDE did.. think it might affect what they're doing much? Going by what you said, if they want to be free up upstream problems, they'll have to do their own thing. Personally, if they were developing this thing for performance, the smartest move would be to design their own from the ground up, not build on something already out there.

Just don't confuse Linux the kernel with Linux the desktop OS. All they said was that it was built around Linux, that's it, that implies pretty much anything.. it could be just plain old Ubuntu with Steam slapped on top. It could be something totally new that runs on the Linux kernel. And you're still ignoring the biggest point... why would they even bother with a full desktop OS to begin with? The thing is geared as a home entertainment and gaming system... what do you think would honestly work better in that environment. A desktop OS, or something that's been streamlined specifically for the big screen? They not only need to have it to work, but they have to actually justify the thing to begin with.

[Athernar]

Umm going by your post. "Why would they expect users to navigate anything? They could quite easily make it load into Big Picture automatically, akin to Metro on 8.1 providing the user doesn't choose to disable it." You're implying a full blown desktop OS right there, otherwise what's there to disable? And do you honestly think that you can just "pull in" some random component and expect it to work without any of the dependencies and other baggage that does go with it? Not sure where you're getting that I said there wouldn't be baggage... kind of obvious there is no matter what they do, kind of how software works and all that.. but as soon as you dabble with the various desktops, well, there's a lot of baggage that goes with that. Take a look sometime.

 

Uh, did you break my post into sections and read them in random order? Your response is incoherent.

 

You also said "chained to third parties". Pulling in anything involves third parties. If they pull in a desktop OS and they suddenly did a drastic change, oh I don't know, maybe like how Gnome, Unity and KDE did.. think it might affect what they're doing much? Going by what you said, if they want to be free up upstream problems, they'll have to do their own thing. Personally, if they were developing this thing for performance, the smartest move would be to design their own from the ground up, not build on something already out there.

 

I think it's fairly obvious I was talking about 3rd-parties in the scope of distros, considering the sheer absurdity of such a statement in regards to the GNU/Linux ecosystem and the fact I immediately mentioned Canonical.

 

Just don't confuse Linux the kernel with Linux the desktop OS. All they said was that it was built around Linux, that's it, that implies pretty much anything.. it could be just plain old Ubuntu with Steam slapped on top. It could be something totally new that runs on the Linux kernel. And you're still ignoring the biggest point... why would they even bother with a full desktop OS to begin with? The thing is geared as a home entertainment and gaming system... what do you think would honestly work better in that environment. A desktop OS, or something that's been streamlined specifically for the big screen? They not only need to have it to work, but they have to actually justify the thing to begin with.

 

What do I think would work better? Having it load BPM automatically with the option of the desktop being there if the user chooses to use it. Again, just like Metro.

 

This approach is no different in terms of end result, requires far less work, allows for a single shared UI codebase - and can easily be used as a desktop OS in the future if SteamOS takes off.

 

You don't even seem to have an argument, just a vague inference that somehow it not being it's own DE means the experience will be inferior - despite the fact the two are completely unrelated.

[Max Norris]

Uh, did you break my post into sections and read them in random order? Your response is incoherent.

You're the one going on about baggage. If what I said was incoherent, here's smaller words. Bigger stuff means bigger baggage. Smaller stuff means smaller baggage. Easy. Pulling in a full desktop environment pulls in more stuff that can possibly be a problem down the road if they (upstream) decide on a radical change.. you know, being "chained", to use your word.

 

I think it's fairly obvious I was talking about 3rd-parties in the scope of distros, considering the sheer absurdity of such a statement in regards to the GNU/Linux ecosystem and the fact I immediately mentioned Canonical.

Ok,great, we're getting somewhere. So you think it's a bad idea to use third party stuff... and yet (below) you think it's a good idea to use third party stuff. Oh wait, we're not getting anywhere after all. What's absurd is your inability to pick which answer you want to stick with.

 

What do I think would work better? Having it load BPM automatically with the option of the desktop being there if the user chooses to use it. Again, just like Metro.

See baggage and third parties above.

 

This approach is no different in terms of end result, requires far less work, allows for a single shared UI codebase - and can easily be used as a desktop OS in the future if SteamOS takes off.

And makes no sense, as you can just use Steam on a desktop already. So their big announcement was "here it is, the same stuff you already had?" Yay, I'll buy three!

 

You don't even seem to have an argument, just a vague inference that somehow it not being it's own DE means the experience will be inferior - despite the fact the two are completely unrelated.

I do, I just think you're having comprehension issues or just making an argument just to get off on arguing, never mind still dancing around the original point, being "what's the point?" They're already got an uphill battle for the console users, specifically that not-so-cheap price tag it's going to have. Having their own in-house OS made would be a real selling point for some of the desktop people, at least the ones who wouldn't mind a limited selection of games, again look at what Google and Amazon did. Just another PC clone with a random distro and Steam pre-installed... not so much. I can already buy any number of gaming/media systems, hook it up to a TV and do the same thing, no SteamOS required.

[xendrome]

Flawed assumption.

 

How is the assumption flawed. The front end they will use is going to be specifically geared to living room/couch game playing.

 

My comment was

 

It's going to be like Android is on an Amazon Kindle, meant for gaming with consumption and media also added. It won't be a full fledged OS, just go mess with their Big Picture feature in Steam now, that will give you a general idea.

 

It's pretty clear what Valve is trying to accomplish, they want to compete with the Consoles, not the PC Market. They already have a stranglehold on the PC Market, so it's time to stretch out.

 

As Max Norris has said above me, you are coming off as just wanting to argue to argue....

[trooper11]

I have to agree with others posting here that Valve's goal seems to be to create a platform around the SteamOS, something that forces pc gamers to only consume media through their store.  Its open in the sense that its a Linux core, but its closed in the sense that Valve will control what is offered to consumers content wise.  Steam is not limited to games, they also started offering general apps and they made a point to say they will also offer media apps through Steam.

 

So a SteamOS could simply be a form of the Big Picture mode UI that also gives access to an app store that offers games, media, and general usage apps.  I can see them pushing this on a Steambox as the only UI in order to make sure consumers stay in the Steam market.  That doesn't mean there may not be a way into a standard Linux desktop, but it also means Valve may not bother including something proper.  I just have a hard time believing that Valve would make such a big deal about this if its just a Linux desktop that can boot straight to the Big Picture mode.

 

Comparing this to say how MS treats the metro side of Win 8 is a bit thin considering that MS is offering a full fledge os, meant to tackle general computing, not a focused, slimmed down experience.  So they offer a desktop and metro, trying to offer the user both options.  I haven't seen any statements from Valve that would indicate that they have any interest in offering SteamOS as a general use os that includes a robust Linux desktop.

 

 

 

Perhaps Valve will have the rule of economies working on its behalf? 

 

If they can source the parts in great enough quantity, we could really see a great price for the specs they are proposing.

 

I kind of doubt that is possible since Valve is not creating a single hardware platform.  They are building prototypes covering a wide range of performance and they made it clear that oems will not be sticking to one class of hardware.  The whole reason console makers can get pricing down via volume is thanks to a single console hardware configuration.  Valve won't have that to leverage.

 

Besides, I kind of doubt Valve is interested in building a Steambox long term.  I would hazard a guess that it won't make much money in that area and they may do it at first only until oems are releasing their own versions. They may decide to keep offering some premium build that has some margin in it for them.

[Athernar]

Ok,great, we're getting somewhere. So you think it's a bad idea to use third party stuff... and yet (below) you think it's a good idea to use third party stuff. Oh wait, we're not getting anywhere after all. What's absurd is your inability to pick which answer you want to stick with.

 

Are you being intentionally dense? I quite clearly pointed out the disparity between distros and components.

 

You're the one going on about baggage. If what I said was incoherent, here's smaller words. Bigger stuff means bigger baggage. Smaller stuff means smaller baggage. Easy. Pulling in a full desktop environment pulls in more stuff that can possibly be a problem down the road if they (upstream) decide on a radical change.. you know, being "chained", to use your word.

 

You were the first to talk about baggage here, not me. Please stop lying.

 

I do, I just think you're having comprehension issues or just making an argument just to get off on arguing, never mind still dancing around the original point, being "what's the point?" They're already got an uphill battle for the console users, specifically that not-so-cheap price tag it's going to have. Having their own in-house OS made would be a real selling point for some of the desktop people, at least the ones who wouldn't mind a limited selection of games, again look at what Google and Amazon did. Just another PC clone with a random distro and Steam pre-installed... not so much.

 

So making a new DE qualifies it as an "own in-house OS" now? Bull. It's still a GNU/Linux distro at that point, just one with a bespoke DE.

 

You're dancing around the point because you've done nothing and got nothing to support your original point that making a bespoke DE improves the quality of the front-end experience. Because it doesn't.

 

How is the assumption flawed. The front end they will use is going to be specifically geared to living room/couch game playing.

It's pretty clear what Valve is trying to accomplish, they want to compete with the Consoles, not the PC Market. They already have a stranglehold on the PC Market, so it's time to stretch out.

 

It's flawed because it doesn't add up, and it's still just an assumption.

 

They're obviously not trying to compete with consoles otherwise they would of made a console, not a open spec gaming PC with a livingroom form factor. They're different markets.

[theyarecomingforyou]

I'm also curious how they are making this thing under 3 inches tall.  Do they have some sort of specially designed components or something?  A GPU, CPU w/ cooler, and PSU are all well over 3 inches tall.

It will almost certainly be using mobile components rather than desktop ones. Laptops and tablets are less than half an inch tall, so squeezing a more powerful system into 3 inches shouldn't be a problem. What's bizarre is the way you're acting as if what Valve is proposing is impossible. You seem to just want to find problems.

[paxa]

and how much will it cost? by the looks of it it won't be anything below $1000. so.....me personally i'm keeping my Money instead of giving it to Steam

[spenser.d]

It will almost certainly be using mobile components rather than desktop ones. Laptops and tablets are less than half an inch tall, so squeezing a more powerful system into 3 inches shouldn't be a problem. What's bizarre is the way you're acting as if what Valve is proposing is impossible. You seem to just want to find problems.

Similar to how you seem to like to find problems with the other consoles?