Israel condemns Council of Europe resolution


Recommended Posts

theyarecomingforyou

Israel has denounced a Council of Europe resolution opposing ritual circumcision, saying it casts a "moral stain" and "fosters hate and racist trends in Europe".

 
A strong statement issued by Israel shortly after the council adopted the resolution last week was reinforced on Monday by a letter sent by president Shimon Peres calling for it to be rescinded.
 
The council's resolution called on 47 member states to regulate practices concerning ritual circumcision, "to overcome some of the prevailing traditional methods, which do not take into consideration the best interest of the child and the latest state of medical art".
 
The resolution was carried by 77 votes to 19, with 12 abstentions.
 
Both Judaism and Islam require the circumcision of boys, usually conducted soon after birth.
 
A statement issued by the Israeli foreign ministry called on the council to overturn the resolution, saying that "claims that circumcision harms young boys' health and body are false, and do not rest on any scientific evidence."
 
The resolution cast "a moral stain on the Council of Europe, and fosters hate and racist trends in Europe", it added.

Source: The Guardian

 

I support circumcision for legitimate medical reasons but strongly object to it being used on young children without informed consent, whether or not such practices are based on religious convictions. Parents have absolutely no right to mutilate the body of their child, regardless of how long the practice dates back or how common it is. It's high time that Europe stands up to the practice and protects the rights of children. Germany has been one of the most progressive nations with regard to this topic and recently banned the practice, though that ruling was eventually overturned (in part because of the country's legacy regarding the Holocaust).

Link to post
Share on other sites
compl3x

 

I support circumcision for legitimate medical reasons

 

 

Which is incredibly rare. Few babies are born who end up needing circumcision.

 

It is a barbaric religious ritual. Any medical benefits, which are highly debatable, have NOTHING to do with why it is done religiously. It's an attempt to justify an ignorant religious practice.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
theyarecomingforyou

Which is incredibly rare. Few babies are born who end up needing circumcision.

Exactly. And while it may be medically preferable in some circumstances unless it is medically required it should be for the individual to decide when they are old enough to grant informed consent. If somebody wants to get themselves circumcised when they're old enough then that's fine by me?whether it's for religious reasons or simply for a laugh?but it's not acceptable for parents to force it upon their children.

Link to post
Share on other sites
compl3x

Religiously, I think it had to do with the covenant between Abraham and god. For some reason, the supreme creator of the universe wanted foreskins. I have no idea what he does with them... Maybe he's a human foreskin trophy collector. It is disturbing that would be one of his lesser weird hobbies.

 

What is appalling offensive is the cries of anti-Semitism and anti-Islam when anyone, anywhere, ever, questions this practice. It is a headache-inducing insult that the people who oppose mutilating baby boys' penises are seen as the bad guys.

 

 

 

I don't mean to get all ranty or self-righteous, but **** like this infuriates me.

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites
ScorpioRGc1

I really don't get why people get so worked up over circumcision (at least in males).  I'm circumcised and I'd hardly call it a "mutilation".  Exaggerative language at its finest to force an agenda.

Link to post
Share on other sites
theyarecomingforyou

I really don't get why people get so worked up over circumcision (at least in males).  I'm circumcised and I'd hardly call it a "mutilation".  Exaggerative language at its finest to force an agenda.

Circumcision itself isn't the issue but that it is being carried out on young children without their consent. Those who want to have it done should do so but it shouldn't be forced upon anyone. I personally do class it as mutilation but that isn't really relevant.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
FloatingFatMan

I really don't get why people get so worked up over circumcision (at least in males).  I'm circumcised and I'd hardly call it a "mutilation".  Exaggerative language at its finest to force an agenda.

 

Watch a video of it being done, and then tell us it's not a mutilation.

 

There isn't even any pain relief for the poor baby being assaulted.

Link to post
Share on other sites
+Fulcrum

In the 80's the American Academy of Pediatrics suggested circumcision may have health benefits, today it's opposite. No guarantee experts will not change their mind again in 30 years. But i'm a firm believer, policy needs to reflect the times.

 

Can't wait for this to come to the US...

 

"I ain't paying for your baby..."

"Condoms no! Circumcision... Yes!"

Link to post
Share on other sites
Rippleman

I am conflicted on this. I am done as well as my son. Religion had nothing to do with it. Of course for myself, I didn't choose but happy it was done. I also chose for my son since it seems logical to have it done.

 

Flip side: I also see how some would see this as mutilation, although it isn't intended to be. I have typed many lines but only backspaced since i don't know how to put it into words.

 

I guess it comes down to this:

 

1) is it necessary to do? no

2) is it painful? I bet (but i imagine a baby feels pain too during the labour but we don't seem to be crying for C-Section only births)

3) is it beneficial? yes

4) any downside? none

 

Rewind time: would i choose to have it done? yes, I am glad my parents had it done.

Link to post
Share on other sites
XerXis

I am conflicted on this. I am done as well as my son. Religion had nothing to do with it. Of course for myself, I didn't choose but happy it was done. I also chose for my son since it seems logical to have it done.

 

Flip side: I also see how some would see this as mutilation, although it isn't intended to be. I have typed many lines but only backspaced since i don't know how to put it into words.

 

I guess it comes down to this:

 

1) is it necessary to do? no

2) is it painful? I bet (but i imagine a baby feels pain too during the labour but we don't seem to be crying for C-Section only births)

3) is it beneficial? yes

4) any downside? none

 

Rewind time: would i choose to have it done? yes, I am glad my parents had it done.

3) like how? Seems more like a cultural thing, or even worse an esthetical trend (like not having pubic hair was the norm a few years back). In Europe it is rare (except for religious reasons), in the USA it's very common. But beneficial? No, nothing seems to point to that

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
FlintyV

 

 

Rewind time: would i choose to have it done? yes, I am glad my parents had it done.

 

Why?

Link to post
Share on other sites
FloatingFatMan

I am conflicted on this. I am done as well as my son. Religion had nothing to do with it. Of course for myself, I didn't choose but happy it was done. I also chose for my son since it seems logical to have it done.

 

Flip side: I also see how some would see this as mutilation, although it isn't intended to be. I have typed many lines but only backspaced since i don't know how to put it into words.

 

I guess it comes down to this:

 

1) is it necessary to do? no

2) is it painful? I bet (but i imagine a baby feels pain too during the labour but we don't seem to be crying for C-Section only births)

3) is it beneficial? yes

4) any downside? none

 

Rewind time: would i choose to have it done? yes, I am glad my parents had it done.

 

3.  Actually, the benefits are -very- limited, and generally meaningless in the western world.

4.  There are -great- downsides, actually. The most important one being a loss of sensitivity for the male, and reduced pleasure for the woman.

 

You have a foreskin for a REASON. Leave it where it's meant to be.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
theyarecomingforyou

I am conflicted on this. I am done as well as my son. Religion had nothing to do with it. Of course for myself, I didn't choose but happy it was done. I also chose for my son since it seems logical to have it done.

 

Flip side: I also see how some would see this as mutilation, although it isn't intended to be. I have typed many lines but only backspaced since i don't know how to put it into words.

 

I guess it comes down to this:

 

1) is it necessary to do? no

2) is it painful? I bet (but i imagine a baby feels pain too during the labour but we don't seem to be crying for C-Section only births)

3) is it beneficial? yes

4) any downside? none

 

Rewind time: would i choose to have it done? yes, I am glad my parents had it done.

You might be happy with it but it shouldn't have been forced upon you and you shouldn't have forced it upon your child. I mean, what if the trend was cutting off the eyelids of your child so they could see better? Or cutting off their ears because it prevented a build-up of earwax? Circumcision is only tolerated because it has a long tradition but looking at it objectively it is wrong for parents to impose it upon their children without their informed consent.

 

As I said, I have no problem with the procedure itself and can see why people would have it done but it should only be done by individuals old enough to make an informed decision for themselves. I also think if people had to wait until they were 13 or 16 to have it done that the percentage of people circumcised would drop dramatically.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Rippleman

3) like how? Seems more like a cultural thing, or even worse an esthetical trend (like not having pubic hair was the norm a few years back). In Europe it is rare (except for religious reasons), in the USA it's very common. But beneficial? No, nothing seems to point to that

 

 

Why?

 

 

3.  Actually, the benefits are -very- limited, and generally meaningless in the western world.

4.  There are -great- downsides, actually. The most important one being a loss of sensitivity for the male, and reduced pleasure for the woman.

 

You have a foreskin for a REASON. Leave it where it's meant to be.

 

You might be happy with it but it shouldn't have been forced upon you and you shouldn't have forced it upon your child. I mean, what if the trend was cutting off the eyelids of your child so they could see better? Or cutting off their ears because it prevented a build-up of earwax? Circumcision is only tolerated because it has a long tradition but looking at it objectively it is wrong for parents to impose it upon their children without their informed consent.

 

As I said, I have no problem with the procedure itself and can see why people would have it done but it should only be done by individuals old enough to make an informed decision for themselves. I also think if people had to wait until they were 13 or 16 to have it done that the percentage of people circumcised would drop dramatically.

 

 I have had a lot of friends with children and while their boys were growing from baby to say about 5, all of the mom's and dads always said they dealt with infection a lot with boys who were uncircumcised vs none. This still is same today with friends that have little ones. 

 

Also can be a problem later in life as you get older and have to pee. Since when you age, you get more of an "innie" and when you have foreskin, it just makes it impossible to pee without making a mess. I have many friends in senior citizens healthcare and they deal with this many times daily.

 

You also have less chance to catch an std. If you don't wash right away after being with a girl, if she was infected with something, this "something" stays on your little buddy a lot easier if you have your foreskin to catch and hide body fluids in the folds. 

 

I don't know about the sensitivity part since i can't judge now. But i experience no pleasure sensation loss, the act "ends" when i want it to :) About the girl, can't say about that either but I can say this. Over here, girls are somewhat grossed out but an uncircumcised penis, not that its a good looking organ, but its even more ugly when it's not cut.

 

About the eyelids and ears, I personally feel this isn't a trend. Each thing you mentioned has life altering effect that change the way you live life.

 

As a side note: I EXTREMELY DISAGREE (and if i known someone who did it, i know i would try to stop it by almost any means possible) with female circumcision, That is pure and utterly wrong in every sense.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

oh ya, and finally the last and biggest reason of all: According to certain traditions, you are forever barred from the Kingdom of Heaven.   

 

(just kidding on that last one, you all know i am atheist!)

Link to post
Share on other sites
theyarecomingforyou

 I have had a lot of friends with children and while their boys were growing from baby to say about 5, all of the mom's and dads always said they dealt with infection a lot with boys who were uncircumcised vs none. This still is same today with friends that have little ones. 

So should we cut off kids ears because they get ear infections? I have never had an infection as a result of having a foreskin, like many?if not most?others.

 

Also can be a problem later in life as you get older and have to pee. Since when you age, you get more of an "innie" and when you have foreskin, it just makes it impossible to pee without making a mess. I have many friends in senior citizens healthcare and they deal with this many times daily.

You pull back the foreskin when peeing. It's not rocket science.  :rolleyes:

 

You also have less chance to catch an std. If you don't wash right away after being with a girl, if she was infected with something, this "something" stays on your little buddy a lot easier if you have your foreskin to catch and hide body fluids in the folds. 

Great, and if they're old enough to have sex they're old enough to decide whether to have a circumcision.

 

I don't know about the sensitivity part since i can't judge now. But i experience no pleasure sensation loss, the act "ends" when i want it to

No, but it's something that has been widely observed amongst those who have had circumcisions later in life. It stands to reason that if a sensitive part of your body is constantly exposed to contact that the sensitivity will decrease.

 

As a side note: I EXTREMELY DISAGREE (and if i known someone who did it, i know i would try to stop it by almost any means possible) with female circumcision, That is pure and utterly wrong in every sense.

As is male circumcision. It isn't as severe but it is still an unacceptable practice when imposed on children without consent.

 

About the girl, can't say about that either but I can say this. Over here, girls are somewhat grossed out but an uncircumcised penis, not that its a good looking organ, but its even more ugly when it's not cut.

That's a cultural thing, as in North America is it more common for people to be circumcised than not. Here most men aren't circumcised so it's not a factor. And again, if people are old enough to be having sex and are worried about it then they can decide to have a circumcision. That point is completely irrelevant.

 

About the eyelids and ears, I personally feel this isn't a trend. Each thing you mentioned has life altering effect that change the way you live life.

But the thing is it really isn't that different and even if such practices were common it would still be wrong to impose them upon young children.

 

The issue is the lack of consent, which is something you haven't addressed. Circumcision might be the greatest thing ever but it's still for the individual to choose and nothing you have said has convinced me otherwise.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
compl3x

Exaggerative language at its finest to force an agenda.

 

 

Like let's not make irreversible medical decision for another human while they can't consent? What a horrible agenda.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
Rippleman

I can see someone of you are STRONGLY on one side of the fence here, all i can possibly suggest is... Its just a tiny bit of skin that gets removed and provides a lifetime of benefits (in my eyes any ways but i KNOW i could be wrong and biased).  Different culture resulting in different view. But in the end, I would still go to the bar with you all uncut monsters for a beer. :)

Link to post
Share on other sites
theyarecomingforyou

I can see someone of you are STRONGLY on one side of the fence here, all i can possibly suggest is... Its just a tiny bit of skin that gets removed and provides a lifetime of benefits (in my eyes any ways but i KNOW i could be wrong and biased).  Different culture resulting in different view. But in the end, I would still go to the bar with you all uncut monsters for a beer. :)

Yeah, I certainly have strong opinions on the matter but that wouldn't stop me from associating with someone who believes differently. :)

Link to post
Share on other sites
Gladiatorus

Israel condemns Council of Europe resolution

 

Oh, poor babies (EU), Israel is complaining... :cry:

Link to post
Share on other sites
compl3x

Different culture resulting in different view. 

 

Keep in mind female circumcision is also a part of some cultures. It might sound arrogant to judge another cultures practices, but I'll risk it this case.

 

 

 But in the end, I would still go to the bar with you all uncut monsters for a beer. :)

 

 

:laugh:

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Rippleman

Keep in mind female circumcision is also a part of some cultures. It might sound arrogant to judge another cultures practices, but I'll risk it this case.

i too feel that its 100% despicable since it permanently hurts a woman for life. there is the culture thing, but this is 100% negative and for the wrong reasons culture or not. I would try to stop anyone attempting this to a female.

Link to post
Share on other sites
FloatingFatMan

I can see someone of you are STRONGLY on one side of the fence here, all i can possibly suggest is... Its just a tiny bit of skin that gets removed and provides a lifetime of benefits (in my eyes any ways but i KNOW i could be wrong and biased).  Different culture resulting in different view. But in the end, I would still go to the bar with you all uncut monsters for a beer. :)

 

Do yourself a favour, watch this:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TY5g4fFhxWA

 

It's an episode of Penn & Teller's Bullsh** show, where they cover the whole issue of circumcision.

 

Please note: Episode is NOT SAFE FOR WORK! Which is why I didn't embed it.

 

Once you've watched it, go read up on the issues they raise, then decide if you still agree with it.  Pay special attention to videos of it being done to babies and note the complete lack of any pain relief. It's just cut & scream.  :omg:

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By zikalify
      Germany could subsidise internet satellite receiver dishes for customers
      by Paul Hill



      Germany could help citizens in rural areas to buy receiver dishes for internet satellite services like Starlink, according to a report in Reuters. As things stand, the government is still fleshing out the details of a voucher scheme that would help customers get their homes kitted out with receiver dishes or any other technical equipment they need.

      While the German government is looking to subsidise the technical equipment, it has said that customers in the rural areas of the country will still have to pay the monthly fee that’s part of their contract with the internet provider. Receiving internet connectivity from space does not come cheap, SpaceX’s Starlink, for example, costs €99 per month.

      The subsidy that the government is looking into could save customers around $499. A Starlink kit includes a terminal to connect to the satellite network, a Wi-Fi router, and a mounting tripod. While quite expensive, the government has probably found that this is the cheapest option to connect people in remote areas.

      In the UK, the government is spending £5 billion to upgrade rural broadband connections to gigabit speeds by 2025. The government is paying the bill because it doesn’t make economic sense for broadband providers to pay money to lay down the infrastructure just for the relatively few customers the hardware would serve. By subsidising the costs of satellite broadband, the German government is trying to meet similar ends as the UK government.

    • By Usman Khan Lodhi
      Nearly 1,000 Apple employees call for company to support Palestinians
      by Usman Khan Lodhi



      Roughly 1,000 Apple employees have signed an internal letter imploring Tim Cook, the firm's CEO, to publicly condemn violence against Palestinians. The authors, who belong to the Apple Muslim Association (AMA), want the Cupertino firm to recognize that "millions of Palestinian people currently suffer under an illegal occupation."

      The current violence in Israel and Gaza started after the Jerusalem District Court ordered six Palestinian families to leave their homes in the Sheikh Jarrah neighborhood on May 2 to make way for Jewish settlers. After 11 days of Israel's deadly bombing campaign in Gaza, at least 232 Palestinians, including 65 children, have been killed. 12 Israeli people, including two children, were killed by Hamas' missiles.

      The members of AMA, which is an official employee group, stated that they were encouraged to write the internal letter due to Apple's failure in putting out a statement condemning violence against Palestinians. They wrote:

      Additionally, the employees made the following request to Apple:

      The letter was sent on Monday, and Cook hasn't formally responded yet.

      Source: The Verge

    • By zikalify
      Sky re-brands NOW TV and introduces NOW Membership
      by Paul Hill



      Sky has announced that it’s re-branding NOW TV with a new name and look. From now on, the service will simply be called NOW and NOW Passes have been replaced by NOW Membership which begins at £3.99 per month, just like Passes. According to Sky, the new and less convoluted name aims to reflect the simplicity of the service.

      Sky’s NOW service offers several NOW Membership offers refined for what you want to watch, they include Entertainment, Cinema, Sports, Kids, and hayu. Each of the Membership options can be enhanced with a £3 Boost each month which enables streaming across three devices at the same time in full 1080p HD and Dolby Digital 5.1 Surround Sound.

      Commenting on the re-branding, Marina Storti, Managing Director at NOW, said:

      The re-branding will begin in the UK before being adapted and rolled out in Italy, Ireland, and Germany. In the UK, the re-branding has already gone live on the NOW website.

    • By zikalify
      Snap: Gen Z set to drive post-pandemic recovery with tech
      by Paul Hill



      Snap Inc, the firm behind Snapchat, has been working with Oxford Economics to see how Generation Z will drive the post-pandemic recovery by leveraging their skills in the digital economy. The firm said that the current narrative around Gen Z suggests that the members of the cohort face a future of uncertainty, but its report actually found that members have a case for being optimistic about the future.

      Unlike any generation before it, Gen Z has grown up with technology having been born between 1997 and 2012 and is, therefore, more comfortable with its use than previous generations. According to the research, these digital skills will help Gen Z become the “dominant force” in the workplace. In Australia, France, Germany, the Netherlands, the United Kingdom, and the United States - the nations that were looked at in this study - there will be 87 million workers from Gen Z by 2030, three times more than today.

      With the coronavirus accelerating the shift to home working, it will be more important that employees have digital skills. With Gen Z growing up around technology, they’re more likely to have these skills. According to the report, Gen Z is more likely to have skills such as agility, curiosity, creativity, critical thinking, and problem-solving which will be in demand in tomorrow’s job market.

      With their success in the workplace, they also become one of the main drivers of consumer spending which forecasts suggesting they’ll spend $3.1 trillion in the aforementioned markets in the year 2030.

      As we’ve seen in previous years, smartphones became more easily adopted by the youngest adult generations before being adopted by those in older age groups. Snap says that augmented reality will be similar and that Gen Z will be the generation that begins adopting the technology first. It said by 2023, the AR market is expected to increased four-fold and will transform healthcare, education, architecture, entertainment, and manufacturing fields. Snap said jobs in AR are becoming more popular and tend to favour Gen Z.

      If you’d like to read the full 50-page report, you can download it now in English, French, German, and Dutch.

    • By zikalify
      Deutsche Telekom and Ericsson run tests to green sites
      by Paul Hill



      The mobile solutions provider, Ericsson, has announced that it’s working with Deutsche Telekom to power mobile sites using renewable solar energy. The companies are conducting their tests at a Deutsche Telekom mobile site in Dittenheim, a village about 100 miles north of Munich, in a bid to show that mobile phone sites can be powered using an independent energy supply backed by solar power.

      To power the Dittenheim site, the two firms built small solar modules that took up an area of 12 metres-squared. Ericsson has provided the Ericsson Power System that is being used to manage maximum power point tracking and voltage conversion. Based on testing carried out during the latter half of 2020, the two companies showed that solar energy was capable of powering two-thirds of the energy needs of the site.

      Commenting on the project, Leif Heitzer, Senior Vice President Technology Guidance & Economics at Deutsche Telekom, said:

      Projects such as these will be critical for Deutsche Telekom as it moves forward to meet its carbon obligations under the Paris Agreement which aims to limit global warming to below 2 degrees Celsius. Ericsson also said that it’s a strong supporter of the Sustainable Development Goals which promote, among other things, renewable energy, decent work and economic growth, and innovation and infrastructure - all of which apply to the experiment in Dittenheim.