Rohdekill Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Firstly, even if they are not trained to do that. I don't think they would have trouble aiming it for. Secondly, the boy never shot, so the cops did have enough time to do this. Thirdly, the cops should know how to aim a gun properly, so this shouldn't be an issue. Do you have even the slightest clue just how improbable it is to intentionally strike a leg or arm with a side arm at 50+ feet?? Now, add in adrenaline to the equation!! Meanwhile, the rifle the kid had, if it were real, has deadly accuracy at over 250+ yards. Lord Method Man and adrynalyne 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildWayz Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 As others have stated before, there is NO 'other' way. Situation was a suspect with a gun who wasn't co-operating with clear instructions to put it down or deadly force will be used. Suspect disobeyed and pointed it at the cops. A taser would NOT resolve the situation, nor any other method. Someone said above "Don't bring a knife to a gun fight" - it is so true. I am not someone who believes people should carry guns, but this situation was handled with direct severity it required. If it was in the UK, I would hope it would have had the same result. Lord Method Man 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arachno 1D Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 You are basing your judgement on facts that are known after the incident 13 years old boy: as you will see in the statement I related to before the officer could not discern his age at the time Toy: the weapon cannot be classed as a toy without close inspection Just shoot: The officer did not pull up and let off a clip of ammunition he clearly gave two verbal warnings before firing at the offender who pointed the weapon in his direction In case some of you skipped page 5 of the discussion and keep repeating the same rhetoric adrynalyne 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zinomian Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 All I'm saying is that they didn't need to kill him even if he was threaten them, I believe that they could of found other ways around it as I will keep saying. Killing is wrong, the cops should have dealt with it in a different way. If that was your son you would not be happy that the cops had shot and killed him. You would have understood that they could have handled the situation better instead of panicking then shooting. Ok, i am going against what i said, but i feel i must. Killing is absolutely wrong (here is where your critical thinking and analytics fails you!), its sad to see a young person die, actually write here anything bad and sad there is about death. However, you fail to see why this particular person died. Glad you ask if i have a son, and i dont, i actually have a daughter, however, if she was ever to be in this situation, no DOUBT i will be close to death, not wanting to continue living, possibly hating life, and hatting myself for allowing my daughter to be out with this kind of gun, however, i would not place blame on the two police officers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Depicus Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 No because guns are illegal in the UK. No not quite true but lets not get into semantics. So you have no idea sitting in your nice comfy chair how it feels. Now I am not a great fan of the American culture of gun ownership, seems like willy inadequacy to me, but even if it was a six year old girl i'd have shot her if she failed to drop the gun and indeed raised it towards me. I suspect given the choice most people would, the question is do we believe that was their only option. Well you obviously believe that the US of A has no deranged psychopaths willing to kill you for no reason, I suspect otherwise. I remember the story of the two UK tourists who went on a gheto tour and were shot by a young kid didn't think people shot you for no reason. WildWayz 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildWayz Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Some people would say two verbal warns was not adequate.... but I imagine the situation was: Police saw a suspect waving a rifle about. Police pulled over, got out and shouted "POLICE. PLEASE PUT DOWN YOUR WEAPON, KEEP YOUR HANDS WHERE I CAN SEE THEM AND LAY FACE DOWN ON THE FLOOR!". Suspect disobeyed. "PUT DOWN YOUR WEAPON OR DEADLY FORCE WILL BE USED". Suspect points gun in their direction. Police open fire. The situation escalated quickly. If the kid was in shock, held the rifle with his finger off the trigger etc and looked like he would comply, but was slow, I imagine more commands would have been given by the officers. Police DON'T want to use their guns, regardless of what you may think. The psychological effect it has on people (unless they are psychotics!) is long lasting. These officers now have to live with the fact the suspect was actually 13 years old with a modified toy gun. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but unfortunately all the variables meant they had to use deadly force. No other action was permissible in that situation, which sounds like it escalated quickly. trag3dy 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrynalyne Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Some people would say two verbal warns was not adequate.... but I imagine the situation was: Police saw a suspect waving a rifle about. Police pulled over, got out and shouted "POLICE. PLEASE PUT DOWN YOUR WEAPON, KEEP YOUR HANDS WHERE I CAN SEE THEM AND LAY FACE DOWN ON THE FLOOR!". Suspect disobeyed. "PUT DOWN YOUR WEAPON OR DEADLY FORCE WILL BE USED". Suspect points gun in their direction. Police open fire. The situation escalated quickly. If the kid was in shock, held the rifle with his finger off the trigger etc and looked like he would comply, but was slow, I imagine more commands would have been given by the officers. Police DON'T want to use their guns, regardless of what you may think. The psychological effect it has on people (unless they are psychotics!) is long lasting. These officers now have to live with the fact the suspect was actually 13 years old with a modified toy gun. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but unfortunately all the variables meant they had to use deadly force. No other action was permissible in that situation, which sounds like it escalated quickly. PUT THE GUN DOWN! SERIOUSLY! NO I MEAN IT! LAST CHANCE! DON'T MAKE ME DO IT! Maybe that would have been sufficient. Of course...someone with real intent would have unloaded a number of rounds at this point into the cops. trag3dy 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LimeMaster Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Ok, i am going against what i said, but i feel i must. Killing is absolutely wrong (here is where your critical thinking and analytics fails you!), its sad to see a young person die, actually write here anything bad and sad there is about death. However, you fail to see why this particular person died. Glad you ask if i have a son, and i dont, i actually have a daughter, however, if she was ever to be in this situation, no DOUBT i will be close to death, not wanting to continue living, possibly hating life, and hatting myself for allowing my daughter to be out with this kind of gun, however, i would not place blame on the two police officers. I'm glad that you understand that killing is wrong and I know the cops were under pressure, but I just can't accept the fact that they killed the boy then discovered it was a toy gun after he'd died. If it had been a real gun then that would be a slightly different story. Although I'd still prefer that they didn't kill the person. Yes I understand that they did not know that it was a toy. I just hoped there was another way even if there was not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrynalyne Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 I'm glad that you understand that killing is wrong and I know the cops were under pressure, but I just can't accept the fact that they killed the boy then discovered it was a toy gun after he'd died. If it had been a real gun then that would be a slightly different story. Although I'd still prefer that they didn't kill the person. Yes I understand that they did not know that it was a toy. I just hoped there was another way even if there's not. So you know that there was no other way, but you cannot accept the outcome? Bro, you be one conflicted dude. Lord Method Man, trag3dy and Bryan R. 3 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dotdot Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Not going to repeat whats already been argued over, however, I will say this... When there is even a slight grey in this kind of scenario, no matter the country, culture or police service. The response is always to treat it with the respect it deserves. Just a real shame that a family will be left grieving and 2 officers no doubt, doubting there own actions for a long time to come. I actually had a friend arrested for something similar in Glasgow. Being outside a bank with a toy bb gun, is not a good idea, even when its bright orange!! He ended up with a large fine for wasting police resources. The fact it was orange only really served to stop the police aiming something black in his direction when they arrived. Didnt stop some good samaritan reporting "man with gun" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LimeMaster Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 So you know that there was no other way, but you cannot accept the outcome? Bro, you be one conflicted dude. Well I don't know that because I wasn't there, but I'll just take the word from the many people who have told me I'm wrong because I can't be bothered arguing about this anymore and since Its happened you can't exactly reverse the decisions made by the boy or the cops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildWayz Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 This is a paintball gun modified from real decommissioned AK47 parts Now, if you saw a kid with that what would you think? A paintball pistol Not even going to touch airsoft. In the UK, we have two-tone laws - so if you don't attend an authorised site 3 times in x months, you cannot buy anything other than a two tone gun. If you get your license, you can carry RIF guns which do not require bright orange tips (in the UK). They NEED bright orange tips in the UK IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Someone complained he'd been hit 7 times. Once the decision to fire is made cops (and civilian carriers) are trained to always shoot 2-3 shots in a volly (AKA double or triple tap.) If he doesn't go down immediately, repeat. If 2 officers opened fire they're going to firea minimum of 4 shots and perhaps 6 the first volly. 3 cops 6-9 rounds, and so on. If 3 cruisers responded there could have been 6 cops there. Do the math. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freak180 Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 only fair if the cop's life is taken now..js Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trag3dy Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 only fair if the cop's life is taken now..js What. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerino Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 After killing Lopez, the deputies handcuffed the boy, Really??!! Thats kind of pouring salt on a wound isnt it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Standard procedure. He's down but until pronounced dead by the coronor he's legally alive. Anyone legally alive in custody of the police has to be cuffed. It sounds silly, but depending on the jurisdiction (or state) the cops could be in trouble if they didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganX Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Really, guess it depends on the area, but I still think they should have taken a different approach as he was only 13. They should know that 13 year old boys are stubborn. Unfortunately 13 year old boys with guns kill, and you don't really have too much room for error. The toy looked too real. Admittedly I don't know details, like how long they waited before they shot, etc. I'm assuming the boy spoke English, etc. Toys that real looking should not be allowed IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganX Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 only fair if the cop's life is taken now..js smh, no. not this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LimeMaster Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Toys that real looking should not be allowed IMO. I agree! (Y) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyn6 Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 Is there a dislike or disdain button? That's too bad, i bet the boy won't do that again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+E.Worm Jimmy Subscriber¹ Posted October 26, 2013 Subscriber¹ Share Posted October 26, 2013 IIf he did not point it at them, then shooting him was overkill, but what kind of idiot does not put the toy gun down after being told so by multiple police officers.... fishy story... not sure what to think... except that many life were damaged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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