Target ships Xbox One 14 days early

[HawkMan]

Microsoft made a bone headed move.  The ban better only be temporary (who knows if Microsoft updated the infrastructure to support temp bans) otherwise or they are in for a world of hurt with PR.  It's also ridiculous his unboxing video got DMCA'ed since he signed no NDA.  

 

XBL has always supported temp bans, the lifetime bans have only been EXTREMELY long temp bans. 

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

difference is, with the 360,the game has to stay loaded,you cant do anything else,you cant shut down the console. with the one, you can suspend the game, suspend the console,go watch Netflix,do Skype,etc. totally different scenario. this type of hole needs close consideration in terms of security.

 

And yet even with all those things, the only thing that matters is if the disc is present.

 

It is = indefinite suspend time.

 

It's not = suspending ends

 

 

XBL has always supported temp bans, the lifetime bans have only been EXTREMELY long temp bans. 

 

Not true. If you're banned on XBL you stay banned. Unless Microsoft made a mistake then they will reverse it. That has only happened a few times though.

 

Suspensions != bans. Suspensions are dealt out for things like profile abuse, communication abuse etc. Bans are for the "serious" crimes like theft, piracy etc.

[Sandor]

Looked up tek savvy today. Going to cancel rogers and get the 35/300 plan. The guy told me they don't have a usage tracker yet so no reason to buy unlimited.

How much is it? Only up to 150Mbit in my area so I don't get to see the price.

[spudtrooper]

Use your brain people. XB1's are serialized devices - Microsoft knows where & how this kid got it.. If it was entirely legit, they wouldn't do anything.

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

Use your brain people. XB1's are serialized devices - Microsoft knows where & how this kid got it.. If it was entirely legit, they wouldn't do anything.

 

They banned it hours ago? And it was a completely legit sale.

 

MS are cleaning up the mess now apparently.

[trooper11]

They banned it hours ago? And it was a completely legit sale.

 

MS are cleaning up the mess now apparently.

 

 

As I said in the other thread, I kind of doubt you have guys watching twitter and then banning the guy.

 

There is probably a system in place that tracks when users are connecting to xbl and since the console has not launched yet, there could be a trigger in place that trips now and that info is pushed up the chain.  Since no one is suppose to be on except for certain authorized groups, that user is banned.

 

Then, MS got word that the users getting on were in fact legit customers and have reacted by reaching out to them.

 

Why in the world this has to produce hate and anger in some places on the internet is beyond me.  There is no room for calm discussions on this stuff.  Let's just jump to a conclusion and grab our pitchforks.

 

If MS had done nothing and just flipped their nose at these users, then I see the reason to attack, but they reacted within a few hours.

[spudtrooper]

They banned it hours ago? And it was a completely legit sale.

 

MS are cleaning up the mess now apparently.

 

How do you know it was a completely legit sale? What are they cleaning up?

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

How do you know it was a completely legit sale? What are they cleaning up?

 

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

snip

 

Nobody said that lol. Although I'm sure it was very close timing when it was brought to their attention online and when the console showed up in logs. It won't be automatic because we know for a fact MS does not use those methods anymore. Plus that would be a disatser for them when it's days away from launch and you could potentially have thousands of people appearing online before they're expected.

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

How do you know it was a completely legit sale? What are they cleaning up?

 

Because unlike some, I look beyond the walls of Neowin for my info ;)

[firey]

How much is it? Only up to 150Mbit in my area so I don't get to see the price.

no, I meant 35 down,  300gb cap.  Not 300 down.  That'd be crazy.. prolly be about 130$ as 150 is 85$

[dead.cell]

Its funny to me how everyone else is angry at the ban, but the guy who got banned isn't at all. Like he knew he was taking a calculated risk. He still loves his Xbox 1 apparently.

That's because if it happened to others, they'd probably not be nearly as forgiving. Taking a calculated risk? He's not robbing a bank here...

 

The problem here is the use of a heavy hand. The "shoot first, ask questions later" tactic has never been popular. That's why our laws even go on about "innocent until proven guilty" for the most part. With that in mind, it would only be logical to assume that, regardless of what this individual may think, it has an effect on what everyone else see and think. Microsoft has started on a path of good PR finally, and they certainly don't need little bumps like this slowing them down.

 

After this far into 2013, they should understand the power of social media, how outlets like Reddit behave, and what to expect from the actions they take.

 

Please note that I'm not trying to take a dig at Microsoft either. I want them to succeed, which is why I'm going to facepalm every time they shoot themselves in the foot. :/

[trooper11]

Nobody said that lol. Although I'm sure it was very close timing when it was brought to their attention online and when the console showed up in logs. It won't be automatic because we know for a fact MS does not use those methods anymore. Plus that would be a disatser for them when it's days away from launch and you could potentially have thousands of people appearing online before they're expected.

 

Um, yes people have said that.  Like you mentioned, I look for things beyond the walls of Neowin.  I'm not talking about you.

 

Hey, if you know how the banning system with the X1 works, then cool.  I don't.  I just assumed they would know whenever a user connects to xbl and then they would have a policy in place that any unauthorized connection before launch would be banned.  They wouldn't use twitter as a method to track unauthorized users.

 

So are you saying that what I just laid out is not possible?

 

Then they get wind of the fact that legit users were banned and then they investigate it to make sure its legit.  They find out Target has sent out consoles early and reach out to the users.

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

Um, yes people have said that.  Like you mentioned, I look for things beyond the walls of Neowin.  I'm not talking about you.

 

Hey, if you know how the banning system with the X1 works, then cool.  I don't.  I just assumed they would know whenever a user connects to xbl and then they would have a policy in place that any unauthorized connection before launch would be banned.  They wouldn't use twitter as a method to track unauthorized users.

 

So are you saying that what I just laid out is not possible?

 

Then they get wind of the fact that legit users were banned and then they investigate it to make sure its legit.  They find out Target has sent out consoles early and reach out to the users.

 

I thought you were talking about Neowin members, so my mistake. I'm sure some people are stupid enough to believe that is how it was detected.

 

I don't know how X1 bans work, but I do know a lot about the ban system on 360. I don't imagine there are many who know the X1 system outside of Microsoft at this stage.

 

They won't use an automatic ban procedure unless they have reversed there stance on it. They stopped using those techniques for the 360 because it produced false positives and banned thousands of people a few years ago. They were forced to then reverse those bans and compensate the owners. It wasn't the first time either, but since then they stopped using the software which caused the incident.

 

Someone else mentioned it, I believe it was BajiRav, they use whitelists which allow you access to XBL for things like beta testing. Those types of methods are still employed, but obviously this was a manual banning as he was able to connect it in the first place. If they had a whitelist he wouldn't have got as far as he did.

[trooper11]

That's because if it happened to others, they'd probably not be nearly as forgiving. Taking a calculated risk? He's not robbing a bank here...

 

The problem here is the use of a heavy hand. The "shoot first, ask questions later" tactic has never been popular. That's why our laws even go on about "innocent until proven guilty" for the most part. With that in mind, it would only be logical to assume that, regardless of what this individual may think, it has an effect on what everyone else see and think. Microsoft has started on a path of good PR finally, and they certainly don't need little bumps like this slowing them down.

 

After this far into 2013, they should understand the power of social media, how outlets like Reddit behave, and what to expect from the actions they take.

 

Please note that I'm not trying to take a dig at Microsoft either. I want them to succeed, which is why I'm going to facepalm every time they shoot themselves in the foot. :/

 

So they ban a guy and then reach out to him once they know the facts, I can think of much more heavy handed tactics.  They reached out to him literally hours after the ban.

 

I get trying to hold MS accountable and all, but there is a real temptation to overreact in some circles on the internet. 

[trooper11]

 

Someone else mentioned it, I believe it was BajiRav, they use whitelists which allow you access to XBL for things like beta testing. Those types of methods are still employed, but obviously this was a manual banning as he was able to connect it the first place. If they had a whitelist he wouldn't have got as far as he did.

 

Could it be that they have a whitelist and that since they do not auto ban, any users that are not confirmed for that whitelist are then banned when someone reviews the list of users?

 

That was my point about maybe they have a policy in place until launch that tells the admins of xbl to ban users that are not on the whitelist.

 

So this guy does not check out and is banned.  As the ban was reviewed, they got wind of the fact that he was a legit user and that Target had leaked systems early and reached out to him to resolve it.

 

For me it comes down to cutting through the bs cloud that tries to form on the internet and find out how this stuff works.  You know how this stuff works, so your not going to accept the bs.

[spenser.d]

That's because if it happened to others, they'd probably not be nearly as forgiving. Taking a calculated risk? He's not robbing a bank here...

 

The problem here is the use of a heavy hand. The "shoot first, ask questions later" tactic has never been popular. That's why our laws even go on about "innocent until proven guilty" for the most part. With that in mind, it would only be logical to assume that, regardless of what this individual may think, it has an effect on what everyone else see and think. Microsoft has started on a path of good PR finally, and they certainly don't need little bumps like this slowing them down.

 

After this far into 2013, they should understand the power of social media, how outlets like Reddit behave, and what to expect from the actions they take.

 

Please note that I'm not trying to take a dig at Microsoft either. I want them to succeed, which is why I'm going to facepalm every time they shoot themselves in the foot. :/

True. I mean it could've been automatic, or it could've been manual and heavy-handed, but look at it from their perspective in that case. All some intern at Microsoft would see is that someone has logged on to Xbox Live from an Xbox One and that their console wasn't approved to do so. They don't really have any way of knowing that Target shipped a box early as opposed to, say, theft or some other illicit means of getting ahold of a console early. Maybe they should give them the benefit of the doubt first, but at least they didn't drag their feet after the fact to look into it.

They certainly don't need bad PR, but if we learned anything from last gen, you can start off at launch poorly and still do just fine :p

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

Could it be that they have a whitelist and that since they do not auto ban, any users that are not confirmed for that whitelist are then banned when someone reviews the list of users?

 

That was my point about maybe they have a policy in place until launch that tells the admins of xbl to ban users that are not on the whitelist.

 

So this guy does not check out and is banned.  As the ban was reviewed, they got wind of the fact that he was a legit user and that Target had leaked systems early and reached out to him to resolve it.

 

For me it comes down to cutting through the bs cloud that tries to form on the internet and find out how this stuff works.  You know how this stuff works, so your not going to accept the bs.

 

The whitelists use console serial numbers. So if you're not on the list, it doesn't let you connect at all. You'll just get an error message when you try to connect.

 

Seeing as Microsoft have let employees etc take the console home to test for the last 2 months or so, they will all be on that list. Including the kid last month who did his own little unboxing / short videos. IIRC it was his parents who were the owners of the X1 and he wasn't banned because it was probably on MS list of beta testers.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

The whitelists use console serial numbers. So if you're not on the list, it doesn't let you connect at all. You'll just get an error message when you try to connect.

 

Seeing as Microsoft have let employees etc take the console home to test for the last 2 months or so, they will all be on that list. Including the kid last month who did his own little unboxing / short videos. IIRC it was his parents who were the owners of the X1 and he wasn't banned because it was probably on MS list of beta testers.

 

Cool, didn't know how that story ended. Seemed strange at the time.

[dead.cell]

True. I mean it could've been automatic, or it could've been manual and heavy-handed, but look at it from their perspective in that case. All some intern at Microsoft would see is that someone has logged on to Xbox Live from an Xbox One and that their console wasn't approved to do so. They don't really have any way of knowing that Target shipped a box early as opposed to, say, theft or some other illicit means of getting ahold of a console early. Maybe they should give them the benefit of the doubt first, but at least they didn't drag their feet after the fact to look into it.

They certainly don't need bad PR, but if we learned anything from last gen, you can start off at launch poorly and still do just fine :p

Agreed. As AB said, some simple notice probably would have been suffice. It's all about tact really I suppose. A notice like:

 

Thank you for your Xbox One purchase!

Unfortunately, the console has not officially launched just yet.

Check back on Friday, November 22nd when we go live!

See you then! :)

 

Also, I'm not sure I totally agree with you just yet on consoles doing fine with a poor launch... *looks at the Wii U* :ermm:

[spenser.d]

Also, I'm not sure I totally agree with you just yet on consoles doing fine with a poor launch... *looks at the Wii U*

I forget about the Wii U sometimes. Was more thinking of the PS3 :laugh:

[threetonesun]

That's craziness.. 40GB for COD Ghosts.. those kind of downloads are why a digitial only idea would never work.  If I downloaded 2 games I'd be at 70% of my usage.. that doesn't include usage from streaming netflix, etc.  I would only be able to get 1 game per month digitially. 

All of Canada is like this.. I actually have higher b/w than standard packages offer.

 

Max Payne on PC was 30GB... I know there are others that are in that range. With high resolution textures, it's not uncommon.

 

BUT, how COD Ghosts ends up being 40GB, I have no idea. The Xbox one isn't going to run at nearly the same resolution as a PC game.

[George P Global Moderator]

I think the WiiU's problem is that it hasn't done anything AFTER launch.  It's been on the market how long already?  They could've worked it out and had more games people wanted or whatnot but IMO Nintendos problem is 2 things, and not the server problems they had either.  First the Wii U to many people seemed no different than a Wii, except with a pricy huge tablet like controller.  While with the Wii people bought into the whole motion control idea, they didn't feel the need to get a Wii U.  Basically the target casual market that made the Wii a huge hit isn't the core gaming market that buys the next new thing regardless.   Second, they can't get the core gamers either, outside of the Mario and Zelda fans, honestly I think that's a market that's shrinking for them on the console side.   If it wasn't for their solid DS/3DS sales Nintendo would be in a pinch. 

[George P Global Moderator]

Max Payne on PC was 30GB... I know there are others that are in that range. With high resolution textures, it's not uncommon.

 

BUT, how COD Ghosts ends up being 40GB, I have no idea. The Xbox one isn't going to run at nearly the same resolution as a PC game.

 

It's all about using uncompressed game assets.   I don't know if any of you are bother with Star Citizen yet?  If you have then you know the simple hangar module is 3GB and it's just a hangar with your ship in it.  Also the last "patch" for it was around 1.5GB, for the same hangar.   This isn't even a full game yet but the downloads are all uncompressed.    PS3 games were no different, when you had the same exact game be between 6-12GB on the 360 or on the PC and had a BD that's 25GB or w/e on the PS3, because they don't bother to compress things, also they often just padded the disc but w/e.

 

I'm not saying CoD ghosts should be 40GB but who knows?   We'll have to wait for them to look at the BDs and see how the file break down, if they can.

[trooper11]

The whitelists use console serial numbers. So if you're not on the list, it doesn't let you connect at all. You'll just get an error message when you try to connect.

 

Seeing as Microsoft have let employees etc take the console home to test for the last 2 months or so, they will all be on that list. Including the kid last month who did his own little unboxing / short videos. IIRC it was his parents who were the owners of the X1 and he wasn't banned because it was probably on MS list of beta testers.

So it wasn't a whitelist. So maybe they simply have a list that is not part of an automatic system, but instead its managed manually before launch. As you said, there are beta testers, etc.

This console was not on any list and it was banned. The ban was reviewed once MS knew about the console leaks and legit users having them and reached out to them.

Its a happy ending right?