Dad Calls Cops on Son to Teach Him a Lesson, Cops Shoot Son Dead

[FloatingFatMan]

Uh.  Watch the video.  It is an industrial style work truck.  It has a big block V8 engine. And a picture of a Smart Car hooked up to an RV does not mean said car can actually haul the camper.  It surely would burn the engine up in no time - and absolutely would not be able to pull it up any grade.

 

I can take a picture of my French bulldog hooked up to the Budweiser beer wagon - but that does not make her a Clydesdale.

 

Find someplace else to troll.

 

I was replying explicitly to your claim of an industrial style work truck - hence its ability to haul lawn mowers on the trailer

 

This is an erroneous claim as ANY vehicle capable of carrying a human containing an engine can tow a trailer with lawn mowers on it.  It's not exactly difficult.

[bradsday]

Completely off-topic, but this is quite interesting so thanks for the insight. One question - when you shoot out the engine block, does the car actually stop any sooner? I was just thinking that even with the engine shot out, it'd keep on rolling and you'd have to blow up the car for it to stop. 

 

The car will stop much sooner.  It may roll for a bit - but not very far.  However, that is not to say this is a fail safe approach.  It is intended to identify vehicles traveling at a high rate of speed at a distance.  This is why the machine guns used are perched on top of a humvee or some other elevated vantage point.  Another reason for using this technique is in an attempt to not cause the explosives in the vehicle to detonate.  Hitting the engine block square will stop the car without causing it to explode.  Unfortunately, many soldiers are still killed by vehicle borne improvised devices (V-IED).  In fact, V-IED and IEDs were/are the number one killer of American and Coalition soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan. 

[theyarecomingforyou]

if you take away the story leading up to it and analyze the actual incident, the kid (from the sounds of it) was endangering peoples lives, I would have shot him too.

Nobody is claiming that what the son did was right but in any other country he wouldn't have been shot. The police were completely out of line.

[bradsday]

Nobody is claiming that what the son did was right but in any other country he wouldn't have been shot. The police were completely out of line.

 

Not true - I can handily rattle off a dozen countries where he would have been shot dead.  Even within the European Union many police officers are armed and permitted to use their weapons to protect their own lives of those of the citizenry they are charged with safeguarding.  In this third and final ramming of the police vehicle - he was clearly intending to use the vehicle as a weapon to assault or murder the police officers.  At the time of this attack, the police officers had stopped and were exiting their vehicles.  The truck was pointed in the opposite direction; he could have easily fled if that would had been his intention.  Instead he chose to attack the officers with his vehicle.  The police were well within their rights to defend themselves through the use of deadly force.  It was the senseless actions of the boy that resulted in his death.

 

Watch the video.  It is a terrible story and a real tragedy, but the dashcam video is pretty telling.  The boy was simply reckless and out of control.

[theyarecomingforyou]

I don't dispute that he was putting officers lives in danger and that he needed to be stopped but I don't accept that shooting him was appropriate.

 

It's one thing to say that police in the EU are permitted to use their weapons but it's another entirely as to how they use them. Take Germany, where only 85 shots were fired over the course of an entire year - in the US they regularly fire more than that for a single incident. Take the UK, where armed men murdered a soldier in the street and then ran at police officers - they were taken down with non-lethal shots. This sort of incident just doesn't happen in other countries.

[FloatingFatMan]

Take the UK, where armed men murdered a soldier in the street and then ran at police officers - they were taken down with non-lethal shots. This sort of incident just doesn't happen in other countries.

 

To be fair, British cops are trained to disable where possible. American's are trained to shoot the largest target as most of them couldn't hit the broadside of a barn from 5 paces. :p 

[ShadowMajestic]

He tried to drive over cops, ram em, put everyone around him in danger from the moment he started fleeing.

 

No, I'm against gun violence usually. but this guy brought it all up himself.

[DocM]

But why kill when you could end it by shooting the engine? Can't run over anyone if the car isn't moving.

.40 pistols are effective as hell against living things but not so much against an engine block. That usually takes a 12 ga shotgun shooting a .50 hardened sabot round.

As soon as the kid started driving at people or cop cars the vehicle legally became a "deadly weapon" - no different than a firearm because it could kill someone. The cops had every right to stop him, whatever that took.

[theyarecomingforyou]

As soon as the kid started driving at people or cop cars the vehicle legally became a "deadly weapon" - no different than a firearm because it could kill someone. The cops had every right to stop him, whatever that took.

I don't accept that. Committing a crime does not automatically legitimise the use of deadly force. Unfortunately police in the US would rather kill suspects than accept any personal risk - it is cowardice. In any other country he would have been apprehended using non-lethal force. The number of people killed by police in the US is obscene.

[Anibal P]

I don't accept that. Committing a crime does not automatically legitimise the use of deadly force. Unfortunately police in the US would rather kill suspects than accept any personal risk - it is cowardice. In any other country he would have been apprehended using non-lethal force. The number of people killed by police in the US is obscene.

 

We get it, you hate America and everything we stand for and love your namby pamby weak Liberal policies that allows criminals to run rampant and the people and moist police are powerless against them, a lot of us will take dead criminals and safety instead, sorry 

[KingCracker]

.40 pistols are effective as hell against living things but not so much against an engine block. That usually takes a 12 ga shotgun shooting a .50 hardened sabot round.

As soon as the kid started driving at people or cop cars the vehicle legally became a "deadly weapon" - no different than a firearm because it could kill someone. The cops had every right to stop him, whatever that took.

Might want to read this, As I mentioned before most police cars are equipped with a 12ga, you don't need no fancy sabot round, just a slug.  Keep in mind that todays engines aren't as thick as older engines.  And Chevy trucks come with an aluminum engine blocks soo.. 

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot54.htm

[Rohdekill]

Why does everyone keep referring to the victim as a "child" or "kid"?  Last time I checked, he was a 19 year old adult, legally responsible for his actions.

 

This is clearly an example of where stupid decisions on the part of the victim, escalated to a point to where police lives where endangered.  The lesson to be learned here is pull the @#$%^ over when police stop you and follow instructions.

[AJerman]

We get it, you hate America and everything we stand for and love your namby pamby weak Liberal policies that allows criminals to run rampant and the people and moist police are powerless against them, a lot of us will take dead criminals and safety instead, sorry 

Thankfully you aren't a spokesperson for our country.

[bradsday]

I don't accept that. Committing a crime does not automatically legitimise the use of deadly force. Unfortunately police in the US would rather kill suspects than accept any personal risk - it is cowardice. In any other country he would have been apprehended using non-lethal force. The number of people killed by police in the US is obscene.

 

You keep referring to "any other country" but the comparison you are trying to make is between the United States and Europe.  Anywhere in the Middle East, Africa, South America, and most of Asia, he would have been killed just as quick - if not a lot quicker.  He was attempting to use his truck as a deadly weapon - the police officers had a right to defend themselves and to protect their lives.

 

I would also argue that American police officers are anything but cowards - America, as you well know, can be a very dangerous place.  A policeman never knows what he will be faced with on any given day - for no more than a civil servant salary they put their lives on the line every day.

[daorbed9]

Car is a deadly weapon.  It's sad the parents raised a kid that stole a truck then ran from cops but they hold no responsibility.  A good kid would never have made those choices.  Why was the kid so willing to break the law?  We need to stop feeling sorry for everyone that directly makes the choice that leads to their fate.  No stolen truck the kid would be alive.  Have to stop blaming everyone else.

[bradsday]

Might want to read this, As I mentioned before most police cars are equipped with a 12ga, you don't need no fancy sabot round, just a slug.  Keep in mind that todays engines aren't as thick as older engines.  And Chevy trucks come with an aluminum engine blocks soo.. 

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot54.htm

 

And I am going to tell you that there is no guarantee that a sabot or any other slug will stop a big block V8 engine.  You could get lucky - but it would be just that, luck.  Its not just the block - but the compartment itself.  Never mind that this guy was driving like a bat out of hell the whole time - the cops never had any chance to take any shot at the vehicle to incapacitate it - regardless of the available weapons.  The driver was shot as the police were exiting their vehicles - and the perpetrator decided to use his vehicle as a deadly weapon to attack the officers. He could have easily fled at that point - but chose to attack the police.  This decision cost him his life.

[daorbed9]

I don't accept that. Committing a crime does not automatically legitimise the use of deadly force. Unfortunately police in the US would rather kill suspects than accept any personal risk - it is cowardice. In any other country he would have been apprehended using non-lethal force. The number of people killed by police in the US is obscene.

 

You do realize that suicide-by-cop is very popular here.  Quite a few of these people just want to die.

[bradsday]

And I am going to tell you that there is no guarantee that a sabot or any other slug will stop a big block V8 engine.  You could get lucky - but it would be just that, luck.  Its not just the block - but the compartment itself.  Never mind that this guy was driving like a bat out of hell the whole time - the cops never had any chance to take any shot at the vehicle to incapacitate it - regardless of the available weapons.  The driver was shot as the police were exiting their vehicles - and the perpetrator decided to use his vehicle as a deadly weapon to attack the officers. He could have easily fled at that point - but chose to attack the police.  This decision cost him his life.

 

Did you even read the article you referenced?  If you had, you would have noted that while shooting a stationary engine block without any obstruction (read: engine compartment) only some of the weapons were able to penetrate the block into the cylinders.  Since you seemed to have missed it ...

 

Conclusions:

1. I hate to sound repetitious, but pistols are pistols and rifles are rifles. The .44 Magnum from the Ruger Super Blackhawk made a hole, but the .357 Magnum could not do the job.

2. The shotgun slug busted the block, but did not penetrate the cylinder wall.

3. The 5.56 rounds penetrated the side of the block, but did not enter the cylinder wall.

4. The .30-06 AP round not only penetrated the side of the block, but also penetrated the cylinder wall.

5. Neither the Ball nor the Green Tip in 5.56 were able to penetrate the steel plate.

6. The .30-06 AP almost made it through the plate. That?s what it was designed to do.

7. It?s fun to shoot stuff.

[KingCracker]

And I am going to tell you that there is no guarantee that a sabot or any other slug will stop a big block V8 engine.  You could get lucky - but it would be just that, luck.  Its not just the block - but the compartment itself.  Never mind that this guy was driving like a bat out of hell the whole time - the cops never had any chance to take any shot at the vehicle to incapacitate it - regardless of the available weapons.  The driver was shot as the police were exiting their vehicles - and the perpetrator decided to use his vehicle as a deadly weapon to attack the officers. He could have easily fled at that point - but chose to attack the police.  This decision cost him his life.

How do you know he was trying to run over police officers? Running from the police doesn't automatically mean that he's trying to kill them. If you look at the dashcam footage  they're in a field of some sort the cop rams him and he drives off. You hear 6 or 7 shots off camera. How do you know that he wasn't just driving away and they shot at him? They could of called off the chase and ended it all together. 

[KingCracker]

Did you even read the article you referenced?  If you had, you would have noted that while shooting a stationary engine block without any obstruction (read: engine compartment) only some of the weapons were able to penetrate the block into the cylinders.  Since you seemed to have missed it ...

 

Conclusions:

1. I hate to sound repetitious, but pistols are pistols and rifles are rifles. The .44 Magnum from the Ruger Super Blackhawk made a hole, but the .357 Magnum could not do the job.

2. The shotgun slug busted the block, but did not penetrate the cylinder wall.

3. The 5.56 rounds penetrated the side of the block, but did not enter the cylinder wall.

4. The .30-06 AP round not only penetrated the side of the block, but also penetrated the cylinder wall.

5. Neither the Ball nor the Green Tip in 5.56 were able to penetrate the steel plate.

6. The .30-06 AP almost made it through the plate. That?s what it was designed to do.

7. It?s fun to shoot stuff.

Thats shooting at an older stronger engine block, the chevy the kid was driving has an aluminum engine block which isn't as strong. 

[bradsday]

Did you even read the article you referenced?  If you had, you would have noted that while shooting a stationary engine block without any obstruction (read: engine compartment) only some of the weapons were able to penetrate the block into the cylinders.  Since you seemed to have missed it ...

 

Conclusions:

1. I hate to sound repetitious, but pistols are pistols and rifles are rifles. The .44 Magnum from the Ruger Super Blackhawk made a hole, but the .357 Magnum could not do the job.

2. The shotgun slug busted the block, but did not penetrate the cylinder wall.

3. The 5.56 rounds penetrated the side of the block, but did not enter the cylinder wall.

4. The .30-06 AP round not only penetrated the side of the block, but also penetrated the cylinder wall.

5. Neither the Ball nor the Green Tip in 5.56 were able to penetrate the steel plate.

6. The .30-06 AP almost made it through the plate. That?s what it was designed to do.

7. It?s fun to shoot stuff.

 

For the record - .30-06 AP stands for ARMOR PIERCING.  Policeman are not equipped with armor piercing rounds in their squad cars.

[Skin]

 A) It's a child whose own parent called them to report a non-violent incident B) The victim was not an immediate threat to the police

 

What the actual ######? The poor 'child' was 17, and he rammed a cop car and refused to stop when ordered. Yeah, non-violent it really seems, and oh yeah, not a threat.

 

A criminal (cigs, stolen car, refusing to stop/eluding, attempted murder/assault of a cop, etc) was killed. Move on, folks.

[KingCracker]

For the record - .30-06 AP stands for ARMOR PIERCING.  Policeman are not equipped with armor piercing rounds in their squad cars.

Never said they were. 

[bradsday]

Thats shooting at an older stronger engine block, the chevy the kid was driving has an aluminum engine block which isn't as strong. 

 

Not true - the engine block of the newer truck is bigger and just as strong.  Also - the one in the demonstration had been sitting around on this old guy's farm for ages and had all but rusted through.

[KingCracker]

Not true - the engine block of the newer truck is bigger and just as strong.  Also - the one in the demonstration had been sitting around on this old guy's farm for ages and had all but rusted through.

Its not as strong when it comes to shooting through it but its just as strong as in holding up to wear as older cars.. Plus engines aren't just solid metal, there's different thickness's.