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Thoughts: Windows 8.1 Update 1 looks worse than ever before...

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MorganX    1,046

Disagree. I think the Metro Switcher should be dropped altogether and everything should appear on the taskbar, which is optimised for touch. We've already seen Microsoft accept that the taskbar is better suited for the desktop, with Metro apps now appearing there.

 

The Metro Switcher is incredibly inefficient - each app is massive, the number of apps is limited, the location of apps changes, etc. I'm not saying that taskbar couldn't be improved to better accommodate the needs of both mouse and keyboard users and touch users but it is certainly the better foundation.

 

I actually miss Flip 3D though I understand not many used it and it was better with a mouse that you could program the wheel click to launch Flip 3D. The taskbar is superior for switching. One thing that makes the App Bar better if a  mouse built for it. The Logitech touch zone mouse is excellent with it, as is MS' Sculpt mouse with the Windows touch thumb button. I guess the fact that you need special hardware could indicate it's out of place, but even for taskbar you need a mouse, though it's much simpler.

 

All-in-all the App bar is poorly suited for desktop computing regardless of the pointing device. Good news is, MS is going to allow Modern apps on the taskbar. Problem solved. The app bar does work quite well on tablets which is what it was designed for.

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BajiRav    2,119

Disagree. I think the Metro Switcher should be dropped altogether and everything should appear on the taskbar, which is optimised for touch. We've already seen Microsoft accept that the taskbar is better suited for the desktop, with Metro apps now appearing there.

The Metro Switcher is incredibly inefficient - each app is massive, the number of apps is limited, the location of apps changes, etc. I'm not saying that taskbar couldn't be improved to better accommodate the needs of both mouse and keyboard users and touch users but it is certainly the better foundation.

imagine holding a tablet in two hands, taskbar is next to useless. Metro switcher works wonders.
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Eric    1,512

Apparently it isn't just you and the Verge as these stats show that people must like Windows 8 and its modern concept:

 

11tjR4W.png

Look at the poll on our front page. Windows 8/8.1 installs outnumber Windows 7 by more than 2-to-1. Either some members are being disingenuous or just masochistic.

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snaphat (Myles Landwehr)    414
 

Hold your horses! The chart is relevant to this thread as it shows that this update probably would be better suited for Windows 9 because not everyone hates the modern interface.

That website shouldn't be used as evidence for anything, it even says that its own results are questionable and not be taken seriously  :laugh:

 

Look at the poll on our front page. Windows 8/8.1 installs outnumber Windows 7 by more than 2-to-1. Either some members are being disingenuous or just masochistic.

That's not really surprising since Win8/8.1 comes pre-installed on new computers and neowin is Windows enthusiast website in many respects. That being said, am I a masochist if I just run Windows 8 for the backend improvements over 7 and generally dislike the Modern UI?

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+LimeMaster    14,432

That website shouldn't be used as evidence for anything, it even says that its own results are questionable and not be taken seriously  :laugh:

Well.. like Eric mentioned, there are other stats that show this as well.  It's not just the one I posted. :)

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snaphat (Myles Landwehr)    414

Well.. like Eric mentioned, there are other stats that show this as well.  It's not just the one I posted. :)

He mentioned the front page poll (My main OS is...) which doesn't say anything about whether people like the Modern UI interface or not. You can't use such metrics to gauge general public reaction. For one, the poll has nothing to do with whether people like the Modern UI and in general people will use an OS even if they they think part of it is lackluster (I do). For two, Win8 is distributed on new computers and this is a Windows enthusiast website -- both of these things are going to skew poll results.

 

If we want some sort of consensus on Neowin with whether people like/dislike the modern UI, we'd need a poll that specifically polls that.

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+LimeMaster    14,432

He mentioned the front page poll (My main OS is...) which doesn't say anything about whether people like the Modern UI interface or not. You can't use such metrics to gauge general public reaction. For one, the poll has nothing to do with whether people like the Modern UI and in general people will use an OS even if they they think part of it is lackluster (I do). For two, Win8 is distributed on new computers and this is a Windows enthusiast website -- both of these things are going to skew poll results.

 

If we want some sort of consensus on Neowin with whether people like/dislike the modern UI, we'd need a poll that specifically polls that.

A big part of Windows 8 is the modern Ul, so it sort-of does as those who hate it tend to stick to Windows 7. Also, the majority of people on Neowin know how to change the OS, so it doesn't really matter what's pre-installed on the new computer. :) Plus no-one actually likes the crapware on the OEM installations.

 

As for the poll, you can create one if you like.

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+warwagon    9,563

He mentioned the front page poll (My main OS is...) which doesn't say anything about whether people like the Modern UI interface or not. You can't use such metrics to gauge general public reaction. For one, the poll has nothing to do with whether people like the Modern UI and in general people will use an OS even if they they think part of it is lackluster (I do). For two, Win8 is distributed on new computers and this is a Windows enthusiast website -- both of these things are going to skew poll results.

 

If we want some sort of consensus on Neowin with whether people like/dislike the modern UI, we'd need a poll that specifically polls that.

 

Correct.. lets look at his poll intsead

 

ugp8.jpg

 

http://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1135456-do-you-want-the-start-menu-in-windows-8/

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+Andre S.    1,891

Look at the poll on our front page. Windows 8/8.1 installs outnumber Windows 7 by more than 2-to-1. Either some members are being disingenuous or just masochistic.

For a community that literally revolves around new versions of Windows, that's rather underwhelming.

The reality out there is that Windows 8 has almost a unanimously bad reputation.

 

Update: we've also noticed that on desktop PCs without a touchscreen, pictures open by default in the Windows Photo Viewer, while audio files open by default in Windows Media Player. Pictures used to open in the Metro-style Photos app, and audio files used to open in the Metro-style Music app. On machines with a touchscreen, content opens in the Metro-style apps. http://www.theverge.com/2014/2/7/5390024/windows-8-1-update-1-boot-to-desktop-ui-changes

Now that's great news. I've been saying that desktop apps should be the default for opening files from the desktop since Windows 8 came out.
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snaphat (Myles Landwehr)    414

A big part of Windows 8 is the modern Ul, so it sort-of does as those who hate it tend to stick to Windows 7. Also, the majority of people on Neowin know how to change the OS, so it doesn't really matter what's pre-installed on the new computer. :) Plus no-one actually likes the crapware on the OEM installations.

 

As for the poll, you can create one if you like.

Pre-installs do matter because the general populous typically leaves what comes pre-installed their computer. Sure, a lot of people on this forum do know how to change the OS, but does that mean they will? And it does that mean those who are answering the poll know how? We don't have the data to make a conclusion about either of those things. Warwagon has a slightly better poll that is linked in this thread now. However, again, you can't take a Windows enthusiast website forum poll, and make conclusions about the general populous because we are likely to see skew. I'm not making a claim here for or against the general populous liking/dislking the Modern interface, I'm just calling for sanity in the evidence used for claims (which is kind of something I do here often in threads :laugh: )

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+Brandon Live    232

It does look stupid, but the solution is simple: Metro apps should not be fullscreen and should respect metrics of the taskbar. Metro apps appear to have more flexibility regarding screen size, proportions and layout than control-ridden Win32, so I assume it'd be an easy fix.

For one, that would really mess with the AppBar / address bar, and swipe-from-bottom gestures... And would be weird for apps meant to be full-screen. Full-screen apps and games have covered the taskbar for ages. There's really nothing wrong with this. Looks like they're just trying out a way to make it more easily accessible without interfering with the full-screen/immersiveness of the app.

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+LimeMaster    14,432

Pre-installs do matter because the general populous typically leaves what comes pre-installed their computer. Sure, a lot of people on this forum do know how to change the OS, but does that mean they will? And it does that mean those who are answering the poll know how? We don't have the data to make a conclusion about either of those things. Warwagon has a slightly better poll that is linked in this thread now. However, again, you can't take a Windows enthusiast website forum poll, and make conclusions about the general populous because we are likely to see skew. I'm not making a claim here for or against the general populous liking/dislking the Modern interface, I'm just calling for sanity in the evidence used for claims (which is kind of something I do here often in threads :laugh: )

You must to be a member to answer the poll so I assume they do. Also, how's warwagon's poll any better? Remember the modern Ul is not just the start screen. It's used for full screen apps and various other things like the charms bar. I guess, but then isn't that poll that I posted first aimed more towards the consumers?

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snaphat (Myles Landwehr)    414

You must to be a member to answer the poll so I assume they do. Also, how's warwagon's poll any better? Remember the modern Ul is not just the start screen. It's used for full screen apps and various other things like the charms bar. I guess, but then isn't that poll that I posted first aimed more towards the consumers?

Warwagon's poll was less general (it referred to some aspect of the ModernUI). Note that I didn't say it was good poll because It doesn't actually pose the question I mentioned :-p.

 

What poll are you referring to specifically (in green)? If you mean the website that rates search terms for whether they are positive/negative, that's not a poll (among the various other issues with doing that type of thing).

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+LimeMaster    14,432

Warwagon's poll was less general (it referred to some aspect of the ModernUI). Note that I didn't say it was good poll because It doesn't actually pose the question I mentioned :-p.

 

What poll are you referring to specifically (in green)? If you mean the website that rates search terms for whether they are positive/negative, that's not a poll (among the various other issues with doing that type of thing).

The key word "some aspects". I still don't think it's any better from the website I used, in fact I'd say that the rating system from the one I used seems to be fairly accurate:

http://i.imgur.com/CdEMwrN.png

 

But yeah, you'll probably need to create that poll that you keep talking about to settle this. :laugh:

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ccoltmanm    128

These just become full screen programs, and not apps. Ugh.

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+warwagon    9,563

Warwagon's poll was less general (it referred to some aspect of the ModernUI). Note that I didn't say it was good poll because It doesn't actually pose the question I mentioned :-p.

 

What poll are you referring to specifically (in green)? If you mean the website that rates search terms for whether they are positive/negative, that's not a poll (among the various other issues with doing that type of thing).

 

A poll has been created http://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1199773-do-you-like-windows-8-81s-modern-ui/

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snaphat (Myles Landwehr)    414

The key word "some aspects". I still don't think it's any better from the website I used, in fact I'd say that its rating system seems to be fairly accurate:

http://i.imgur.com/CdEMwrN.png

 

But yeah, you'll probably need to create that poll that you keep talking about to settle this. :laugh:

Read the disclaimer and how it works pages for the whatdoestheinternetthink think website. There are obvious issues: for example: how do you accurately measure positivity vs negativity using sentence structure, how do you guarantee that the results that come from the queries represent what you think they represent, how do you guarantee that you are even using the right queries to capture the desired information, how do you account for disparity in discussion or reporting of negativity vs positivity, how do measure the accuracy/reliability/precision of an undisclosed unvetted algorithm, etc. Even aggregations of simple review ratings have to be done in a very specific way to avoid skew and accuracy issues. A have a loaded question: would you'd trust the election of officials based on this website's algorithm? I wouldn't  :laugh:

 

I'm not creating a poll because it is going to suffer from some of the issues I've mentioned in my previous posts. I can't well rely on results that sample neowin and then try to extrapolate those as an accurate representation of the general consensus on the Modern UI. I would just be being hypocritical and misleading if I did that. The best I could do is try for a Neowin specific conclusion.

 

But as I already said, I don't care to "settle" or prove this either way, my only purpose here was to dispel the flawed use of polls and other things that were being used to draw the conclusions noted in this thread.

 

EDIT all: warwagon created a poll, but let's be sure to consider it in an appropriate context.

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+warwagon    9,563

There will probably be a box with a check mark called "Always Put taskbar on ontop of Modern apps." right next to the "Taskbar always on top box"

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Dot Matrix    7,047

There will probably be a box with a check mark called "Always Put taskbar on ontop of Modern apps." right next to the "Taskbar always on top box"

 

Because that'll work real well. (N)

post-420821-0-24286700-1391916593.jpg

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+warwagon    9,563

Because that'll work real well. (N)

attachicon.gifwin81update1prertm3_1020_verge_super_wide.jpg

 

1) This is a leak

2) They obviously won't release it looking like that

3) I'm sure they will give you a way to turn it off so the taskbar is not ontop of modern apps.

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mastercoms    434

I am using Windows 8.1 Update 1, and the taskbar autohides.... It feels great for me.

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Chris123NT    361

I am using Windows 8.1 Update 1, and the taskbar autohides.... It feels great for me.

This, it doesn't get in the way, and it only shows if you absolutely want it to.

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+warwagon    9,563

Its going to make me laugh if people who hate this trigger the taskbar as much as charms bar haters trigger the charms bar by accident.

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mastercoms    434

I love it so much I changed the taskbar to auto hide in the desktop, but it does get in the way sometimes when I click on the ... in metro apps. Also, they fixed the charms bar thing. If you just have your mouse in the corner, it will wait a bit more than 2 seconds to show the charms or the window manager, unless you do the move your mouse down gesture.

Its going to make me laugh if people who hate this trigger the taskbar as much as charms bar haters trigger the charms bar by accident.

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