Thoughts: Windows 8.1 Update 1 looks worse than ever before...

[heatlesssun]

It doesn't really work well in practice for many apps because the UI too large to display anything in useful manner when pinned like that. For example, metroradio (which is what I use to play music from Pandora).

 

EDIT: in your defense, this isn't fixable by adding Windows into the mix. Basically, throwing a Modern App into a Window isn't going to suddenly make this work better.

 

The snapping in 8.1 is much more flexible but apps had to code for the flexibility. Snapping things side-by-side is an extremely common scenario for windowed apps, Aero snap in Windows 7 bought that feature to desktop apps. It's a hidden feature but very useful.

Here's a better thought. How about it not show at all? It's bad design, no matter how you look at it.

 

And that's still an option by the way. I just don't see how it's bad design to have the main application system that's been in Windows forever to allow it to be able to navigate ALL applications, desktop or modern. I've been playing with this  escrow RTM leak since Friday and these changes just make sense. They are perfectly logical and familiar to desktop users and there's absolutely no reason not to have this option.

[+Anarkii Subscriber²]

I just wish microsoft would just hire the guy that made these concepts.
They are perfect. Pleasing to the eye, and keep a great sense of style, even have the Metro look on the desktop that actually works, and works well.
While we wont see this in 8.2, I sure as hell we hope we see it in 9.





 

[heatlesssun]

I just wish microsoft would just hire the guy that made these concepts.

 

You really think that no one at Microsoft thought of this long ago? It's pretty obvious and I would suspect that 9 will have something like this. 

[Ian S.]

I think Microsoft just needs to intice users with new innovated desktop apps and features, like Mission Control, Multiple Desktops, iBooks like application for desktop and modern ui. For instance, in Bestbuy the other day, a couple were looking to buy a Mac. They asked why a Mac? The salesperson said it has multiple desktops to unclutter your workspace, and Final Cut + iMovie to make home movies and professional ones. It is from the app store so it "has no changes of getting viruses" (which is obviously not true). But! the wife stepped up and said she has a youtube channel and makes Indian cooking shows, so therefore iMovie would be useful for her. If Microsoft creates free versions of these apps maybe even with comparable functionality to Final Cut and the adobe suite (but still being free) they would have a winner. They just need a "Home" Mode.

 

I have an idea call the suite "Live" [a play on to live in a house and to go live on stage]. It would have a triangular shaped modern house as the icon.

Call it the following:

Music/Sound editing: Stereo

Video Editing/screen recording/ movie making: Finale

Photo Editing/photo management/ screen capture: Capture

A dvd burning app would be nice.

 

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In addition to all of these Microsoft should integrate VLC (with a Modern UI) on the desktop shipped with Windows, Geogebra for graphing (like Grapher on Mac), and maybe 7zip for an integrated zipping utility (like archive utility on mac).

 

Things like these make a difference to the consumer!!

i think having the taskbar pop up is a bit problematic. I agree, so far the most suitable solution is the use the recent app switch.

But I believe they should add a scrolling ability in the App Switcher, because it causes problems when it becomes full. The ability to re-arrange it would be nice and pin an app to some location on the App switcher would be nice too.

 

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EDIT: Just thought of another thing that would be useful:

Mac's accessibility options like the slider for mouse cursor size, there are only 3 sizes on Windows, but on Mac it has plenty more. Plus the grey scale ability and inverted colors ability (currently only through magnifier) and the ability to increase and decrease contrast.

 

 

I would love a proper screen recorder, and sniping tool that works in the Modern UI (and on RT)

[+Anarkii Subscriber²]

You really think that no one at Microsoft thought of this long ago? It's pretty obvious and I would suspect that 9 will have something like this. 

With Microsofts current design team, no, I believe Microsoft haven't thought of this until they were told of its existence a few weeks back. 

Now that they do know of it, like I said, I hope they really do hire the guy that concepted those images to get it up and running for Windows 9. 

Those images are the perfect blend of both the desktop and the Metro environment working in perfect harmony, as Windows 8.1 set out to do.

If one guy can do it, why cant a team of 200 people do it? 

 

[snaphat (Myles Landwehr) Member]

The snapping in 8.1 is much more flexible but apps had to code for the flexibility. Snapping things side-by-side is an extremely common scenario for windowed apps, Aero snap in Windows 7 bought that feature to desktop apps. It's a hidden feature but very useful.

I was talking about the snapping with the ModernUI applications specifically. Normal composite desktop manager snapping works fine because the design is such that applications don't have abnormally large fonts, etc.

[heatlesssun]

With Microsofts current design team, no, I believe Microsoft haven't thought of this until they were told of its existence a few weeks back. 

Now that they do know of it, like I said, I hope they really do hire the guy that concepted those images to get it up and running for Windows 9. 

Those images are the perfect blend of both the desktop and the Metro environment working in perfect harmony, as Windows 8.1 set out to do.

If one guy can do it, why cant a team of 200 people do it? 

 

 

Sorry, this is just so obvious that I thought of it when I first saw Windows 8 for the first time in 2011 and I'm not a designer. People have been talking about a non-full screen Start Screen from day one including myself.

[George P Global Moderator]

That is my point. I've developed several apps that run on phones and on the PC. It's easy to share UI when the app is simple, but as soon as it gets complicated it's detrimental to at least one platform when developing the UI to run on both. It's better to split it off and focus development so it works best for a particular platform. That's at least what I've found.

No one's saying you take something big and complex and try to fit it into a smartphone, but those are the few ones. The one thing to do is just have a basic version for the phone and a more feature rich version on a tablet and so on, if that's the type of app in question. They already do this with the office apps for example. That doesn't mean you have to keep everything split and separate, lots of apps however will have no issues running fine on all 3 device types, i'd even say the majority would.

[gohpep]

In order to summon the taskbar at the bottom, you have to move your mouse to the edge, and then move it down even more, kind of like a sticky edge, so the apps works like in Windows 8.1. I'm not sure if accidentally doing that is that easy. You can't invoke the start screen app bar, since everything is in a context menu, and there isn't a customize button. If you right click in a blank space, a name groups option appears.

How does the whole process of invoking the the app bar in the Email app, or the scroll bar in the Pictures app work now?  I read that the user has to drag the mouse down a bit once hitting the bottom to get the taskbar, but what's the tolerance there?  Is it still easy to accidentally invoke the taskbar even if the user just wants to use the app bar?

 

Also, can a mouse user still invoke the app bar on the Start screen?  I mean the one with the "customize" button.

[gohpep]

It's a great solution in my opinion, if you are using desktop applications, the metro app switcher won't do. And if you're like me, you use desktop and metro apps, and this is an even better way to multi-task. The taskbar is for desktop users, who don't want to feel like Windows is divided. It's a better idea than having desktop apps in the app switcher.

Here's a better thought. How about it not show at all? It's bad design, no matter how you look at it.

[LimeMaster]

I just wish microsoft would just hire the guy that made these concepts.

They are perfect. Pleasing to the eye, and keep a great sense of style, even have the Metro look on the desktop that actually works, and works well.

While we wont see this in 8.2, I sure as hell we hope we see it in 9.

 

That looks way nicer than the current implement found in Update 1, but since it's a concept it's unlikely that it'll ever look like that as Microsoft has never used other people's concepts before. 

[+Fahim S. MVC]

That looks way nicer than the current implement found in Update 1, but since it's a concept it's unlikely that it'll ever look like that as Microsoft has never used other people's concepts before. 

 

And the users bleating today would still be bleating due to the mouse travel necessary between the Start button and the shutdown button.

[theyarecomingforyou]

I just wish microsoft would just hire the guy that made these concepts.

They are perfect. Pleasing to the eye, and keep a great sense of style, even have the Metro look on the desktop that actually works, and works well.

While we wont see this in 8.2, I sure as hell we hope we see it in 9.

I don't see how that improves things. There's simply no need to see the desktop in the background when the display area would be better used showing more apps / information. That's not to say that the Start Screen is perfect?far from it?but it's certainly an improvement on the Vista/Win7 era Start Menu, which was a usability nightmare. The only thing I would say that works about the concept is that it makes the most commonly used items easier to click on because there is less mouse travel but that could be achieved on the Start Screen by creating a bottom bias (having tiles originate from the bottom rather than the top).

 

Basically that concept would appeal to some users but annoy others - it's not a magic fix. To include it as an option would only further fragment the Windows user experience, which is already convoluted enough (especially since the addition of Metro). I'd rather see Microsoft work on improving the usability of the Start Screen / All Apps than going back to a Start Menu style approach.

[LimeMaster]

And the users bleating today would still be bleating due to the mouse travel necessary between the Start button and the shutdown button.

Maybe, but it's still just a concept so it doesn't really matter and multiple sources have said the start menu will be returning as an optional feature, which I assume will just be the Windows 7 start menu with a slightly different appearance, so the mouse travel probably won't be an issue for those users. :)

[Jarrichvdv]

That looks way nicer than the current implement found in Update 1, but since it's a concept it's unlikely that it'll ever look like that as Microsoft has never used other people's concepts before. 

I'm pretty sure we're heading to a future with windowed Metro apps.

[Kyang]

In order to summon the taskbar at the bottom, you have to move your mouse to the edge, and then move it down even more, kind of like a sticky edge, so the apps works like in Windows 8.1. I'm not sure if accidentally doing that is that easy. You can't invoke the start screen app bar, since everything is in a context menu, and there isn't a customize button. If you right click in a blank space, a name groups option appears.

 

Thank you very much for this.  I appreciate the time taken to answer.  I admit my questions are pretty nit picky.

 

If you don't mind just another couple questions, does clicking on said, "name groups" option basically do the same thing as the previous app bar's "Customize" option?  Which is to say that, does the Start screen just enter the same customize mode that the user can also Ctrl-Click on a tile to get to?

 

And if so, once in this mode, does it still work the same way as in 8.1, where the user can then let go of the Ctrl key, and it doesn't really matter if they left or right-click on a bunch of tiles to multi-select them?

 

 

 

Maybe, but it's still just a concept so it doesn't really matter and multiple sources have said the start menu will be returning as an optional feature, which I assume will just be the Windows 7 start menu with a slightly different appearance, so the mouse travel probably won't be an issue for those users. :)

 

I've been reading that it's not really the old start menu either.  And by that wording, I figured the change was more than just aesthetic.

[Jarrichvdv]

Sorry, this is just so obvious that I thought of it when I first saw Windows 8 for the first time in 2011 and I'm not a designer. People have been talking about a non-full screen Start Screen from day one including myself.

I predict windowed Metro apps in Windows 9 but with a full-screen Start menu; how it should be.

[+Anarkii Subscriber²]

I predict windowed Metro apps in Windows 9 but with a full-screen Start menu; how it should be.

Didn't Microsoft already somewhat confirm the existance of 'Start Menu/Metro Mini'?

I remember that name being tossed around a few weeks back.

[Jarrichvdv]

Didn't Microsoft already somewhat confirm the existance of 'Start Menu/Metro Mini'?

I remember that name being tossed around a few weeks back.

That'd be saddening. They should stick to their vision (sometimes) and the vision of a full screen Start menu is absolutely great. A mini Start menu just cripples every feature/advantages that the fullscreen one offers (less distraction from your current action; more customization, more info at one glance, bigger hit targets for more accuracy etc)

Anyway; if you find the source, please share. Thanks.

[LimeMaster]

I'm pretty sure we're heading to a future with windowed Metro apps.

You're right, but it won't be like the concepts posted on this thread.

[+Anarkii Subscriber²]

https://www.neowin.net/news/start-menu-rumors-are-heating-up-currently-referred-to-as-mini-start-internally

http://www.zdnet.com/what-might-a-new-windows-start-menu-look-like-7000024193/

http://www.wpcentral.com/windows-81-update-1-rumored-release-date

http://www.winbeta.org/news/mini-start-included-latest-internal-builds-windows-81-update-1

[Jarrichvdv]

You're right, but it won't be like the concepts posted on this thread.

Probably not, I was just talking about the concept of windowed apps. The design will most definitely be a lot different.

https://www.neowin.net/news/start-menu-rumors-are-heating-up-currently-referred-to-as-mini-start-internally

http://www.zdnet.com/what-might-a-new-windows-start-menu-look-like-7000024193/

http://www.wpcentral.com/windows-81-update-1-rumored-release-date

http://www.winbeta.org/news/mini-start-included-latest-internal-builds-windows-81-update-1

Thank you.

[Dot Matrix]

Maybe, but it's still just a concept so it doesn't really matter and multiple sources have said the start menu will be returning as an optional feature, which I assume will just be the Windows 7 start menu with a slightly different appearance, so the mouse travel probably won't be an issue for those users. :)

No, it's going to be a new concept, based off sources close to Ars reporter Peter Bright. There's no reason for the convoluted Windows XP era POS to come back.

[LimeMaster]

Probably not, I was just talking about the concept of windowed apps. The design will most definitely be a lot different.

Ah, OK. :)

 

No, it's going to be a new concept, based off sources close to Ars reporter Peter Bright. There's no reason for the convoluted Windows XP era POS to come back.

Wait, does that mean they are getting rid of the start screen? :huh:

[BoDEAN]

I think that regardless on what side of the fence you are on, we can all agree that Windows will never be perfect and there will always be those who will find something to complain about.  Update 1 will address a lot of issues people are having and create new ones.  So expect more updates from MS.

 

 

Well said.  I have had no issues with Windows 8.1 on my desktop at all