• Sign in to Neowin Faster!

    Create an account on Neowin to contribute and support the site.

Sign in to follow this  

Windows 8.x is Microsoft's second fastest selling OS ever

Recommended Posts

+LogicalApex    1,747

So? same thing happened with Windows 7.

 

I am pretty sure my Dell system bought near launch of Windows Vista had this bios SLIC stuff.

Read more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BIOS#SLIC

 

This stuff is not new for Windows 8.

No, that is the older system. In that model the OEM basically inserted some arbitrary code into the BIOS that the OEM copy of Windows could use (along with the OEM signing cert) to verify the copy was OEM licensed. The OEM put the same code in every single machine so there was no activation at manufacturing time...

 

The new system is very different. The OEM must request a unique key for each machine running Windows 8 during the manufacturing process. This key is then injected into the BIOS of the machine and is unique to that specific computer. So an OEM needs to license Windows as soon as they build the machine... OEMs don't sell every machine they build... I'm sure MS offers them credits and refunds, among other things, for unsold machines, but this will artificially push up the sales numbers (as they aren't disclosing how often they have given refunds or credits for unsold machines).

 

This change is why a reinstall of Windows 8 onto a computer that shipped with Windows 8 doesn't require a CD Key to be entered. It is also the reason why Windows 8 computers are the first Windows computers to ship without a CD Key on the device via a sticker. It has already been infused into the BIOS.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
aviator189    46

Given the fact that the numbers of computers and people in the world have increased, we need a bit of fair comparison please.

so?

doesn't change the point the OP made.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sandor    436

But Windows 8 is a fail!

And the PC market is dying!

 

etc.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
theyarecomingforyou    10,427

You can hate all you want, but MSFT has no plans to back away from the Metro UI, so can't we just get over it already? 

And yet Microsoft did exactly that with Windows 8.1 (the reintroduction of the Start Button) and Windows 8.1 U1 (right-click context menus on the Start Screen; Metro apps appearing on the taskbar; desktop machines no longer default to Metro apps). Desktop users have responded poorly to Metro and Microsoft has had to change tack.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
vcfan    2,339

Changes to the way Microsoft licenses Windows to OEMs pushes this number up artificially...

No it doesn't. OEMs still order a predetermined amount of keys,get sent a COA or genuine label,then get billed for it. Done, license is sold. Microsoft generating the unique per PC key happens after the purchase is made.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
+LogicalApex    1,747

No it doesn't. OEMs still order a predetermined amount of keys,get sent a COA or genuine label,then get billed for it. Done, license is sold. Microsoft generating the unique per PC key happens after the purchase is made.

Uh... Yes it does... Microsoft is now told about every machine manufactured by an OEM... This was never the case before.

 

Also, Microsoft does NOT generate the key after the product is made... The key is embedded into the BIOS... How can they do this after a sale???

 

http://www.myce.com/news/exclusive-windows-8-contains-new-product-activation-method-62879/

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_8-windows_install/do-i-need-product-key-to-reinstall-windows-8/0bd0bee3-2617-4f82-bad4-872b923d186f

 

But I'll stop doing your research for you now...

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
vcfan    2,339

Uh... Yes it does... Microsoft is now told about every machine manufactured by an OEM... This was never the case before.

 

Also, Microsoft does NOT generate the key after the product is made... The key is embedded into the BIOS... How can they do this after a sale???

 

http://www.myce.com/news/exclusive-windows-8-contains-new-product-activation-method-62879/

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_8-windows_install/do-i-need-product-key-to-reinstall-windows-8/0bd0bee3-2617-4f82-bad4-872b923d186f

 

But I'll stop doing your research for you now...

 

look at the image.

step 1. oem orders keys,gets billed

step 2. ms delivers keys

 

thats what i said. oem orders keys,gets invoiced, and only then microsoft delivers the keys. its the same process as the old method,except there is no per pc key,but in step 2, oems attach the genuine label instead of the COA.

 

oa3-process.jpg

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
duddit2    194

Millions more PC exist now than say 5 years ago, i think you have to take this in to account when looking at the numbers.

PC sales have been on a  massive decline last few years with home users aligning more with mobile (tablets, phones etc.).

 

The decline started before windows 8 was released and was more a factor of the iPad revolution (yeah I know, but it had a massive effect), so you need to take this into account also. Unless of course you can show sales figures of PC's year on year that can be compared directly to windows OEM and upgrade sales, if the number of PC's sold per year is more then its right what you are saying, I just don't think it will be.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
+LogicalApex    1,747

 

look at the image.

step 1. oem orders keys,gets billed

step 2. ms delivers keys

 

thats what i said. oem orders keys,gets invoiced, and only then microsoft delivers the keys. its the same process as the old method,except there is no per pc key,but in step 2, oems attach the genuine label instead of the COA.

 

oa3-process.jpg

The difference isn't in how the OEM is billed... The difference is in how the keys are sold... Microsoft is tying the key to the computer at manufacturing time. They end up recording a sale as soon as the computer is manufactured. The billing is adjusted to reflect a more stable reality for the OEM.

 

The point of my post you quoted was reflecting this... You can't compare Windows 7 sales numbers, at least for OEMs, to Windows 8 number due to the "sale" occurring earlier in the lifecycle than it did previously. We would need to know, for certain, if MS is counting "net" sales (sales of shipped and sold OEM machines) or just "gross" (number of licenses that were stamped into machine BIOSes).

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PGHammer    1,666

PC sales have been on a  massive decline last few years with home users aligning more with mobile (tablets, phones etc.).

 

The decline started before windows 8 was released and was more a factor of the iPad revolution (yeah I know, but it had a massive effect), so you need to take this into account also. Unless of course you can show sales figures of PC's year on year that can be compared directly to windows OEM and upgrade sales, if the number of PC's sold per year is more then its right what you are saying, I just don't think it will be.

Exactly - in fact, the decline in PC sales started almost immediately after Windows 7's launch (with desktop-formfactor PCs hit the hardest, followed by netbooks, with other portables impacted last).  Notice that - other than netbooks, which got whacked for poor performance AND poor battery life, especially compared to tablets and iPads - the impact dropped as the hardware became more portable. (Portable sales are basically what has kept Dell afloat.)

 

What will be REAL interesting is comparisons of Windows 8 upgrade sales vs. OEM sales - that, at least to me, is the real measure of an operating system's success in the teeth of a poor economy.  (It is also one number we don't have - even for the base Windows 8 SKUs.)

 

Mobility, mobility, mobility.  I'm not saying that the desktop formfactor is dead - and neither is Microsoft, let alone most of their OEMs (Toshiba and Panasonic notwithstanding); however, exactly how relevant are desktops in terms of the consumer these days?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
vcfan    2,339

The difference isn't in how the OEM is billed... The difference is in how the keys are sold... Microsoft is tying the key to the computer at manufacturing time. They end up recording a sale as soon as the computer is manufactured. The billing is adjusted to reflect a more stable reality for the OEM.

is that made up? in the activation process model, nowhere does it claim this. it clearly shows a sale is made before manufacturing,and before receiving build reports. In fact,it shows the build reports are used to activate the copy of windows by the consumer, effectively being used as a security measure.

 

The point of my post you quoted was reflecting this... You can't compare Windows 7 sales numbers, at least for OEMs, to Windows 8 number due to the "sale" occurring earlier in the lifecycle than it did previously. We would need to know, for certain, if MS is counting "net" sales (sales of shipped and sold OEM machines) or just "gross" (number of licenses that were stamped into machine BIOSes).

they are counting sales to oems, as in step one, just as they have always done with windows 7.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Joe User    497

No, that is the older system. In that model the OEM basically inserted some arbitrary code into the BIOS that the OEM copy of Windows could use (along with the OEM signing cert) to verify the copy was OEM licensed. The OEM put the same code in every single machine so there was no activation at manufacturing time...

 

The new system is very different. The OEM must request a unique key for each machine running Windows 8 during the manufacturing process. This key is then injected into the BIOS of the machine and is unique to that specific computer. So an OEM needs to license Windows as soon as they build the machine... OEMs don't sell every machine they build... I'm sure MS offers them credits and refunds, among other things, for unsold machines, but this will artificially push up the sales numbers (as they aren't disclosing how often they have given refunds or credits for unsold machines).

 

This change is why a reinstall of Windows 8 onto a computer that shipped with Windows 8 doesn't require a CD Key to be entered. It is also the reason why Windows 8 computers are the first Windows computers to ship without a CD Key on the device via a sticker. It has already been infused into the BIOS.

 

Adding the key to the computer takes all of a few minutes and can be done shortly before boxing, after the machine has been ordered, configured and tested.

 

OEMs sell as many machines as they can, they're not in the business of building up inventories to not sell them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
+LogicalApex    1,747

is that made up? in the activation process model, nowhere does it claim this. it clearly shows a sale is made before manufacturing,and before receiving build reports. In fact,it shows the build reports are used to activate the copy of windows by the consumer, effectively being used as a security measure.

 

they are counting sales to oems, as in step one, just as they have always done with windows 7.

Made up?... The slides show a couple of clear things... The product key is embedded into the BIOS (this is done at manufacturing)... If MS was only billing the OEM after a confirmed sale the lead time in the slides wouldn't be 45 days... Outside of direct to consumer sales there are no machines selling in under 45 days of manufacturing...

 

My point is still pretty simple to understand. Microsoft has made adjustments to when the sale to an OEM occurs. What we don't know is how this has affected their reporting of OEM sales to the market at large. I expect they are reporting the inflated numbers mainly because that is how business is generally done... You put your best foot forward...

 

There really isn't much more of a discussion to be had here. I have clearly laid out the changes to the OEM activation cycle. You're attempting to argue, as a matter of fact, that there is no material change to MS OEM reporting. I have never attempted to assert factually anything other than the current reality, MS has made changes to OEM activation. Neither of us know, with certainty, the affect these changes have had... But as I mentioned earlier, it is safe to assume they are using the inflated sales numbers to enhance their stock market position... MS doesn't want high sales numbers to appease the Windows 8 lovers on Neowin. They want to stop investors from going into full panic mode on them.

 

The real sentiment is there to show that the real sales aren't anywhere near what Microsoft expected or is happy with...

 

Windows 8 wasn't really about the Desktop anyway... It was a strong mobile play to pull Microsoft into a solid position in mobile. I think this would have actually worked if they did it with a better story, but they failed to deliver and have soured users. A real shame...

Adding the key to the computer takes all of a few minutes and can be done shortly before boxing, after the machine has been ordered, configured and tested.

 

OEMs sell as many machines as they can, they're not in the business of building up inventories to not sell them.

Uh, what? This is added to the EFI! It isn't someone adding this to a system image...

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
adrynalyne    13,139

90%?

90% of win8 users don't know how to format their computers and install 7.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
duddit2    194

90% of win8 users don't know how to format their computers and install 7.

I know how, I chose not to because its a better OS than 7 (IMO - which is all I can really talk about, that and others I know, who are happy with 8, I suppose we must all be 'wrong' then?)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
tp2215    8

I just had to contribute cause I know that I am going to get ripped apart for this. Windows 8 is great! I am not a noob and am a very experienced user. 

 

First off, if you take out the new "modern" interface, Windows 8 is insanely more powerful and the kernel etc. is much, much more improved in itself over Windows 7. With all the new features however, people will rip what they are not used to. If the flamers start actually using the system on a day to day basis instead of just look once, install windows 7 and start ripping it, they will realize that everything is really put exactly where you need it and all tied into itself.

 

I also think that the app direction is where Microsoft needed to go. They where already and in the future going to loss a HUGE market share to mobile operating systems such as Android if they did not go into this direction. There are many PC manufactures already attempting to release touch screen pc running entirely Android.

 

The only real issue that I am having is that the other major companines (look at Google) are refusing to make apps for Windows 8 whereas Microsoft is releasing apps for Android. This only causes those services not to sync with Windows 8. I can rant on and on about that but you got the point, Windows 8 aint that bad.

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
adrynalyne    13,139

I know how, I chose not to because its a better OS than 7 (IMO - which is all I can really talk about, that and others I know, who are happy with 8, I suppose we must all be 'wrong' then?)

Are you asking me?  

Because I never gave an opinion either way in this thread.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
tp2215    8

Also, does anybody remember early Android builds? They sucked. It took Google years of constant improvement to get to where they are now. Got to hand it to Microsoft that they are keeping up with the upgrade packs etc. and keep on improving it.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
+xrobwx71    827

Do you really believe in this propoganda. Installing Win 8 on OEMs computer does not mean any sale. These number means nothing. It will be same as producing billions of inventory and putting it on store and then claiming You sold billion inventory. It is uselss to even care to explain further. To all those who really take these number at face value, it does no harm to live delusional.

So the OEM's get Win8 for free? I'm only asking because I'm not sure how it all works. I am not trying to start a riot. For instance, DELL builds a computer, where does the OS come from? Does Microsoft ship the OS at no cost or do they sell it to the OEM? or does MS not get paid for the license until the OEM sells the computer? Does Intel ship chips to an OEM for free? I'm confused. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
+xrobwx71    827

I just had to contribute cause I know that I am going to get ripped apart for this. Windows 8 is great! I am not a noob and am a very experienced user. 

 

First off, if you take out the new "modern" interface, Windows 8 is insanely more powerful and the kernel etc. is much, much more improved in itself over Windows 7. With all the new features however, people will rip what they are not used to. If the flamers start actually using the system on a day to day basis instead of just look once, install windows 7 and start ripping it, they will realize that everything is really put exactly where you need it and all tied into itself.

 

I also think that the app direction is where Microsoft needed to go. They where already and in the future going to loss a HUGE market share to mobile operating systems such as Android if they did not go into this direction. There are many PC manufactures already attempting to release touch screen pc running entirely Android.

 

The only real issue that I am having is that the other major companines (look at Google) are refusing to make apps for Windows 8 whereas Microsoft is releasing apps for Android. This only causes those services not to sync with Windows 8. I can rant on and on about that but you got the point, Windows 8 aint that bad.

Same here. Very fast and secure OS. I've had it running for almost 1.2 years. I game, I surf, I use Office, I use Photoshop, I convert video, burn dvd's, ect. No problems. FOR ME, it has been a very nice and very stable OS.I rarely use the modern interface. I boot to the desktop and use the ###### out of it!

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
duddit2    194

Are you asking me?  

Because I never gave an opinion either way in this thread.

saying that 90% of windows 8 users don't know how to format and install 7 is implying that you believe that this 90% of windows 8 users don't like it and if they did know how to install 7 they would, how is that not giving an opinion on windows 8?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
adrynalyne    13,139

saying that 90% of windows 8 users don't know how to format and install 7 is implying that you believe that this 90% of windows 8 users don't like it and if they did know how to install 7 they would, how is that not giving an opinion on windows 8?

You've never done tech support, have you? It has nothing to do with liking or disliking. It has to do with most people get their OS with their computer and of those, most do not know how to change it. 

 

I never said 90% dislike it, so that you think I am implying that is amusing.

 

What I did say implied there is no way 90% switched back because there is no way the 90% of buyers  know how to.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
duddit2    194

You've never done tech support, have you? It has nothing to do with liking or disliking. It has to do with most people get their OS with their computer and of those, most do not know how to change it. 

 

I never said 90% dislike it, so that you think I am implying that is amusing.

 

What I did say implied there is no way 90% switched back because there is no way the 90% of buyers  know how to.

ok misunderstanding on my part, it seemed that's what you were saying by the wording, sorry about that. I may have missed posts or something, I just went of the one single post and it came across wrong.

 

I have worked in tech support, 1st line for 2 years then 2nd line, then started my own company for the next 4 providing SMB IT support, I now work as an IT consultant on my own, so yeah I've worked in tech support.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Raa    1,583

so?

doesn't change the point the OP made.  

It helps to get perspective.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Joe User    497

 

Uh, what? This is added to the EFI! It isn't someone adding this to a system image...

 

You do know that the OEMs have the tools to unlock, re-write, sign and lock the UEFI when they need to. No OEM in their right mind would add a product key to a computer that isn't ready to go out the door.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.