+LogicalApex MVC Posted March 25, 2014 MVC Share Posted March 25, 2014 You do know that the OEMs have the tools to unlock, re-write, sign and lock the UEFI when they need to. No OEM in their right mind would add a product key to a computer that isn't ready to go out the door. So, the OEM is standing at the register in Best Buy ready to re-write the EFI as soon as the computer sells? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DConnell Member Posted March 25, 2014 Member Share Posted March 25, 2014 So, the OEM is standing at the register in Best Buy ready to re-write the EFI as soon as the computer sells? Wouldn't the system being at Best Buy count as a sale for the OEM? Best Buy purchases the system from the OEM to resell, after all. WAQT 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srbeen Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I have bought 2 windows 8 licenses, because they came with my microsoft-discounted wal-mart bargain bin laptops. $238 for a laptop when its $139 for windows 8.1 pro... Just good timing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+LogicalApex MVC Posted March 25, 2014 MVC Share Posted March 25, 2014 Wouldn't the system being at Best Buy count as a sale for the OEM? Best Buy purchases the system from the OEM to resell, after all. Retail outlets usually return unsold and returned product to the OEM for a refund... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srbeen Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Retail outlets usually return unsold and returned product to the OEM for a refund... I thought they don't even buy them now. OEM ships to reseller who moves them and takes a % off the top. OEM can then opt to have unsold items returned or offer to discount them to move them. Pretty sure this is how Amazon and Walmart operate. +LogicalApex 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe User Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Retail outlets usually return unsold and returned product to the OEM for a refund... Which get refurbished and sold through the OEM outlets. Again, they're not sitting on huge amounts of licensed inventory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+LogicalApex MVC Posted March 25, 2014 MVC Share Posted March 25, 2014 Which get refurbished and sold through the OEM outlets. Again, they're not sitting on huge amounts of licensed inventory. Maybe... There is no guarantee that the machine manufactured will sell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe User Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 So, the OEM is standing at the register in Best Buy ready to re-write the EFI as soon as the computer sells? Yes, that's exactly what I said. :rolleyes: Maybe... There is no guarantee that the machine manufactured will sell. So, what's this huge percentage that you think is coming back and being wasted? WAQT 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAQT Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 So, what's this huge percentage that you think is coming back and being wasted? Exactly, and if there is inventory coming back to be scrapped, There must be some refund that MS offers. Windows 7 Assemble Computer Put the license certificate on the computer (into Windows) Get billed for using the license (bill them every second, day, month?.. it has to be monthly I assume... or you think MS waits until a retail sale?) Returned / scraped computers get refunded (?) Windows 8 Assemble Computer Put the license key in the BIOS Get billed (bill them every second, day, month?.. it has to be monthly I assume) --- even if you move this step to step 2, and step 2 to 3... the billing will be done before a retail sale, just as with Windows 7. Returned / scraped computers get refunded (?) So the point is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+LogicalApex MVC Posted March 25, 2014 MVC Share Posted March 25, 2014 Exactly, and if there is inventory coming back to be scrapped, There must be some refund that MS offers. Windows 7 Assemble Computer Put the license certificate on the computer (into Windows) Get billed for using the license (bill them every second, day, month?.. it has to be monthly I assume... or you think MS waits until a retail sale?) Returned / scraped computers get refunded (?) Windows 8 Assemble Computer Put the license key in the BIOS Get billed (bill them every second, day, month?.. it has to be monthly I assume) --- even if you move this step to step 2, and step 2 to 3... the billing will be done before a retail sale, just as with Windows 7. Returned / scraped computers get refunded (?) So the point is? This is getting tiring... I should probably stop posting... This is the difference... W7 or older: The OEM purchased licenses from MS in batches. They then used those licenses on machines, but were free to redistribute them if they needed to (within terms). Meaning... They could reuse a license allocated for a machine that didn't end up being sold without purchasing two licenses. W8 or later: The OEM is required to inform MS when the machine is built. The OEM can, and does, get a refund from MS for cases where they build the machine, but don't end up selling it. But MS has recorded a sale... In the retail world this is why it is important to not only look at sales, but also things that artificially inflate sales (like returns). Another important area this artificially impacts the license numbers is for Software Assurance enterprises. By attaching the license early in the manufacturing process Microsoft will have "sold" a Windows 8 license when the purchaser has already licensed Windows via Software Assurance. Allowing them to book the sale multiple times (1 at OEM, 1 at SA customer). In the W7 era the OEM could just opt out of including a CoA with the machine... My point is simply that the change creates a material difference in the way the sales number is tracked... But I need to stop trying to have a logical discussion. People on both sides of the isle only care about pushing their side... Windows 8 fans want to use everything they can to say Windows 8 is far from a failure and Windows 8 detractors want to do the opposite. I don't care either way... I don't own any stock in Microsoft and I don't care what happens to things I don't own. MorganX and snaphat (Myles Landwehr) 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAQT Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 They could reuse a license allocated for a machine that didn't end up being sold without purchasing two licenses. ^ That is the point you are trying to make, and I get it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe User Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 This is getting tiring... I should probably stop posting... This is the difference... W7 or older: The OEM purchased licenses from MS in batches. They then used those licenses on machines, but were free to redistribute them if they needed to (within terms). Meaning... They could reuse a license allocated for a machine that didn't end up being sold without purchasing two licenses. W8 or later: The OEM is required to inform MS when the machine is built. The OEM can, and does, get a refund from MS for cases where they build the machine, but don't end up selling it. But MS has recorded a sale... In the retail world this is why it is important to not only look at sales, but also things that artificially inflate sales (like returns). Again, I don't think the return number is high. Otherwise the OEMs would be posting huge losses, as would Microsoft. Neither are. Another important area this artificially impacts the license numbers is for Software Assurance enterprises. By attaching the license early in the manufacturing process Microsoft will have "sold" a Windows 8 license when the purchaser has already licensed Windows via Software Assurance. Allowing them to book the sale multiple times (1 at OEM, 1 at SA customer). In the W7 era the OEM could just opt out of including a CoA with the machine... Most OEM's offer a SKU without Windows to the public, and they offer them to corporate clients in larger quantities. Those models are usually the same as the Windows model, but they come with Linux or another OS, and no product key in the SLIC. If corporations are buying pre-licensed machines it's because they got a bulk deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Order_66 Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Regardless of the endless fanboy semantics trying to somehow turn windows 8.x into some sort of success, it's just not going to happen. Windows 8.x barely crept past Vista in terms of adoption rates and has gained next to ZERO in marketshare so far this year and doesn't even hold a candle to 7 or XP and at the rate it's going it will never even come close. The writing has been on the wall for quite a while now folks, best just to accept the inevitable and move on instead of wasting time with endless semantics and hate-filled swill trying to magically turn a failure into some sort of success, it's just not going to happen. :B: Rex 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganX Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Another important area this artificially impacts the license numbers is for Software Assurance enterprises. By attaching the license early in the manufacturing process Microsoft will have "sold" a Windows 8 license when the purchaser has already licensed Windows via Software Assurance. Allowing them to book the sale multiple times (1 at OEM, 1 at SA customer). In the W7 era the OEM could just opt out of including a CoA with the machine... This may count for more inflation than returns, lol. Whether you ever deploy or not, skip an entire version for a 3-year cycle, you renew, each seat is a sold license. New version during a contract, equal sales for new verision sans renewal. Having acknowledge that, it will continue to sell as MS improves it. It will really sell if MS actually focuses well on PC gaming and new releases are optimized for or exclusive to Windows 8.1. It's still about software and for those happy on 7, there's no compelling reason to upgrade yet. There may also a steep curve with Modern apps for some reason (just guessing due to lack of functionality and volume of high quality apps). Mint from intuit, is a great app with a great interface but has refresh issues, account login issues (for bank and investment accounts) and has limited functionality. But the UI and functionality that's there is excellent and there's no reason it should be missing functionality (like adding new budget categories, have to go to the web for that). It's just little things. It could be time or lack of financial incentive to invest in fully functional Modern apps. Just don't know. Anyway, we're just getting 7 fully rolled out, when I sit in front of a Windows 7 desktop for some reason, it seems as dated as sitting at XP after becoming accustomed to 7. MS just needs to keep improving it. dr_crabman 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolbunny1234 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 My first thought is the curiosity of which how large win xp was when first released Jan 2006 and onwards, as you said the numbers being difficult to find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OpelCorsaC2001 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 People forget that almost no one was using XP during it's first years. They pretend like everyone went to XP in 2001. Most people jumped on the XP bandwagon for SP2 around 2004-2005. In 2001-2003 almost everyone was still using Windows 98 or 2000. 2005-2007 were the XP peak days. Gosh, no wonder I never liked it that was a pretty stupid era. XP made me hate computers and I'm glad it's going out. :) Currently running Vista/Win 8.1 and I'm glad. 98 and Vista sre the only obsolete versions I miss from the past. I like Windows 8.1 more than 7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe User Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 So, the OEM is standing at the register in Best Buy ready to re-write the EFI as soon as the computer sells? Thank you for proving my point completely. No, they're not, the exact same way they weren't standing at the register with COA's for XP, Vista or Windows 7. Swapping a generic SLIC key for a specific one doesn't change the sales figures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
game_over Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 These numbers seem pointless... people don't buy Windows, they buy a computer that has Windows on it. 90% of people don't have a choice. Computers aren't sold without an OS in generic retails stores (PC World etc..), and even if they were it's not like consumers have a choice unless they want to learn how to use Linux. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasd- Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 So Windows 8/8.1 sold less at 30$ during months that Windows 7 at +300$, WOW. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganX Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Windows 8 is about to sell a whole lot more. If you haven't checked out the Asus Vivo Tab Note 8 with wacomm stylus for ~400 w/64GB, you should. What the first Windows tablets should have been. MS may win this after all. Hooked on Alpha Jax! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaP Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 So you have this idea that OEMs bought 100 million copies of Windows 8, only to store them away and not sell anything...and then continued to purchase Windows 8 licenses over a period of several months, until they doubled the number of licenses in their inventory? I think this is implausible. Companies do it. All the computers in the cie i'm working for right now have a Windows 8 license but all of them are running 7 and will keep running 7 for a long long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaP Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Well it was a nice try to show how 8 compares to previous versions, but as you can see, people are ready to pounce on you and explain why its futile. I guess someone else needs to come up with numbers we can compare without being shot down. Or maybe that is impossible. It's not really possible. There's too much companies having the last license of windows for all of their computers and running a previous version of windows on them. It has always been this way and will always be. I would love to know how many Vista license were sold and never used. This is in the millions no doubt about it. I've seen so much Vista licensed computers in companies running windows xp. And now i see a lot having Windows 8 license but running Windows 7. Most companies upgraded from xp to 7 directly. Lot will upgrade from 7 to another version over 8 probably. Windows 8 would require too much training right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhangm Supervisor Posted March 28, 2014 Supervisor Share Posted March 28, 2014 Companies do it. All the computers in the cie i'm working for right now have a Windows 8 license but all of them are running 7 and will keep running 7 for a long long time. This is not unusual. IT is extremely conservative with respect to end-user exposed hardware, and all things considered, this attitude is forgivable given the inertia of acclimated users, and their budgetary constraints (in regards to equipment rollover and staffing). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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