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rethink it: Be thankful Hilter was born?

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ACTIONpack    359

Like with everything in life there is a cause and effect to everything. To the biggest thing to the smallest something that happens in the past will change the present and future.

Hilter was one of them that change the world. With him millions die and millions were born. Without him most of us would not be born.

What do you think? I hero to us that are born because our grandparents OE parents live in a different place or country?

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Geoffrey B.    1,414

First off this should not be in the news section.

secondly yea, even though he did horrible things without those horrible things a lot of amazing things would not have come as quickly due to the struggle.

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+The Evil Overlord    17,025

Well, one could argue that advancements in medicine and warfare has been advanced, alongside your claim. But that statement could be applied to any major event change brought on by catastrophic events.

Would I still be UK born? Probably not, but then one could argue, what 'said person who was affected by any war' life would be, it's an unknown, for all I know I could be living as a millionaire by now if I was born in India, but then the life and family, whom I love dearly, wouldn't exist.

 

too many variables for someone like me to make any more an informed statement beyond this point.

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McKay    3,695

The World would be an entirely different place that's for sure. But you never know how things can change. Hitler not being born might have led to a world that's so much worse.

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Romero    93

"With him millions die and millions were born. Without him most of us would not be born." - First four words are obviously true, but I'm sorry I find the rest idiotic and offensive (as also topic title). It's not as if millions wouldn't have been born anyway if he hadn't been conceived, and neither do millions owe their existence to him. Whether or not the exact same millions would have been born if he wasn't there doesn't matter in the least. And to be thankful to him for the war just because it sped up some aspects of scientific research is a truly disgusting concept. No proof we wouldn't have got there eventually, or perhaps equally quickly or even quicker due to other catalysts or factors.

 

There's no point debating what ifs. Maybe we'd have been born in the same form, maybe in another, maybe not at all. Maybe someone's grandparents or parents would have migrated regardless. You can go on tossing around possibilities like you can about your own life (what if I had done X differently etc.) None of it will ever make me thankful Hitler was born, but history can never be changed. For all we know the world would be a hellhole now if he wasn't born. Perhaps a worse dictator would have won the war and be currently lording over the world.

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redfish    386

If you're going there already, then there's no reason to be thankful he was born, because whatever happened was destined to happen anyway, as that chain of cause and effect goes back to the beginning of time. That he was born was completely incidental something that was greater than him, and would have happened without him, if such a thing was possible. Hitler was just a creature of his era and his culture. History made him just as much as he made history.

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Charisma    2,388

Moved to General Discussion

 

 

I believe everything happens for a reason, and that even when something looks (and is) bad to one person or a group's perspective, it has a greater purpose in the long run. I am not sure I'd go as far as to say I am thankful for him... but I wouldn't go back in history and change anything.

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seta-san    1,065

I owe my life to Hitler. Thanks to the war my grandpa enlisted and was stationed in Nebraska where he met my grandmother

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Romero    93

I owe my life to Hitler. Thanks to the war my grandpa enlisted and was stationed in Nebraska where he met my grandmother

 

So you're actually thankful he was born because then you were? What if he wasn't and thus neither were you (in your current form at least), but it prevented the suffering and deaths of millions? Given a choice would you go back and abort him knowing you'd disappear instantly too? (Just a thought experiment.)

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+The Evil Overlord    17,025

 

So you're thankful he was born? What if he wasn't and thus neither were you (in your current form at least), but it prevented the suffering and deaths of millions? Given a choice would you go back and abort him knowing you'd disappear instantly too? (Just a thought experiment.)

Normally I would have refrained, but there's a hole in your logic, If someone born as a result of hitler, went back in time to prevent the birth of hitler, the timeline would dictate said person would not be born in the world known as is, therefore 'said person' would not be alive to go back in time to prevent hitler's birth...

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McKay    3,695

Normally I would have refrained, but there's a hole in your logic, If someone born as a result of hitler, went back in time to prevent the birth of hitler, the timeline would dictate said person would not be born in the world known as is, therefore 'said person' would not be alive to go back in time to prevent hitler's birth...

Wibbly wobbly timey wimey.... Stuff

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Romero    93

Normally I would have refrained, but there's a hole in your logic, If someone born as a result of hitler, went back in time to prevent the birth of hitler, the timeline would dictate said person would not be born in the world known as is, therefore 'said person' would not be alive to go back in time to prevent hitler's birth...

 

This is Terminator and endless Hollywood movie time travel logic buddy, just go with it. :D

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+The Evil Overlord    17,025

This is Terminator logic buddy, just go with it. :D

lol that's what I was doing.. Hence why John Connor Must live, without him, there'd be no reason for Kyle Reece to go back and stup John's mum, therefore spawning sequels with plot holes the size of planets

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seta-san    1,065

So you're actually thankful he was born because then you were? What if he wasn't and thus neither were you (in your current form at least), but it prevented the suffering and deaths of millions? Given a choice would you go back and abort him knowing you'd disappear instantly too? (Just a thought experiment.)

no. The war progressed humanity greatly in a short number of years and the atrocities at least led to many advancements in biology, chemistry, and medicine... Not to mention it helped bring about many of the first computers and set up America as a world power.

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Romero    93

no. The war progressed humanity greatly in a short number of years and the atrocities at least led to many advancements in biology, chemistry, and medicine... Not to mention it helped bring about many of the first computers and set up America as a world power.

 

Can you be completely certain none of that would have occurred without Hitler around, maybe even quicker/better? Don't think so, so your justification makes no sense.

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McKay    3,695

Can you be completely certain none of that would have occurred without Hitler around, maybe even quicker/better? Don't think so, so your justification makes no sense.

It would have happened eventually, just slower. Wars always spur technology faster. Aircraft technology would have been slower, rockets probably would have happened later on, which means the space race would have probably happened later, the first electronic programmable computer was invented in the UK to crack German codes, that wouldn't have happened until later without the war. America might not have been as big of superpower etc. America built vast swathes of industry to supply WW2 and came out of the war fabulously wealthy. While all of their European competition was bankrupted.

I'm not thankful for any bad things that have happened in history, but we just don't know what kind of world we'd be living in without Hitler and WW2. Best to stick with the Devil we know.

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seta-san    1,065

Can you be completely certain none of that would have occurred without Hitler around, maybe even quicker/better? Don't think so, so your justification makes no sense.

ya..but in my justification.... I exist

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MorganX    1,046

no. The war progressed humanity greatly in a short number of years and the atrocities at least led to many advancements in biology, chemistry, and medicine... Not to mention it helped bring about many of the first computers and set up America as a world power.

 

America was already a world power. Even before we joined, we provided resources to Russia and GB, and while fighting in Europe, more or less alone took on the Japanese across the globe on land and sea simultaneously.

 

>> many advancements in biology, chemistry, and medicine<<

 

The Nazis were responsible for a lot of "research" and ways to commit murder on a mass scale. I'm sure the "Nazi" were responsible for that many actual "advancements" in biology, chemistry, and Medicine. Most of it was S&M and data that was later used. They did discover how long it would take to starve a person to death and how much you could work them in the mean time. Mengele discovered nothing he was just psychotic.

 

Now, engineering, missile and rocket science, they are responsible for many advancements in those areas. As cruel as it is, one of their biggest contributions may be their use of data for decision support. Thank God they did have SQL available to them. Fantastic engineers. The underground V2 Rocket factory is just an amazing feat. Of course, with enough slave labor ... And the Russian T34 out-engineered them when it counted most. British and American 3D imaging/photography allowed us to find and bomb the V1/V2 factories and launch sites, even the mobile launch sites, into irrelevancy. Often goes under the radar, but if we hadn't bombed virtually all those factories and launch sites, D-Day might have been a different story. The sheer volume of what the allies had to do to win is a testament to their intellectual superiority and the genius of German engineering (which was used for evil purposes by an evil minority).

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Gotenks98    409

Like with everything in life there is a cause and effect to everything. To the biggest thing to the smallest something that happens in the past will change the present and future.

Hilter was one of them that change the world. With him millions die and millions were born. Without him most of us would not be born.

What do you think? I hero to us that are born because our grandparents OE parents live in a different place or country?

You have no way of knowing this. Who is to say that the timeline wouldn't find a way for certain events to have to occur. It would just happen differently but the end result is the same. Some other dictator would have gotten into power or some virus would have wiped out those same people. We have no way of knowing this.

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Turk.    268

The most notorious mass killer, racist dictator, and "still" one of the "western world approved leaders". Other approved leaders Mandela, Gandhi, Gorbachev, Franco, Mussolini.

Western World nonapproved/degraded/underrated leaders include: Ataturk, Lenin, Mao, Stalin, Che, Castro, Allende, Chavez and Freshman Putin. Each of them were -for same or different reason/s- not very welcomed by the Western world.

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Romero    93

The most notorious mass killer, racist dictator, and "still" one of the "western world approved leaders". Other approved leaders Mandela, Gandhi, Gorbachev, Franco, Mussolini.

You're clubbing Mandela and Gandhi with the rest? :s

 

It would have happened eventually, just slower. Wars always spur technology faster.

Even if you consider war a necessity for accelerated scientific advancement, there's no saying we wouldn't have had other wars without Hitler around and reached the same results quicker or better. Also if there were no Hitler and no world war who knows how many brilliant people would have survived or been born who'd have made quantum leaps in various fields?

 

Bah, all completely useless conjecture anyway. I'm not thankful in the least that Hitler was born, no matter the advancements made that I'm certain would have come about nonetheless. I also don't agree with anyone who says they'd prefer the war to have happened pointing to these advancements. Those aren't in any way recompense for the millions of deaths. No justification for war, period. I think I'm gonna step out of this thread now, nothing more to discuss really.

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Turk.    268

In terms of approval by the West they were/are in the same boot, who they were/are or what they have done is/are irrelevant. both Gandhi and Mandela were approved by the British/West even if they fought against them. both left their countries half independent, and still half independent, which was/is the reason of approval.

The second group leaders were not all in the same group and same features, however in terms of western approval, they were/are grouped as similar as the leaders in the first group.

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COKid    873

Nothing to "rethink". I am not thankful.

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Rigby    1,312

It's true that he was a very horrible person, but at least he killed Hitler.

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Slarlac249    252

someone else would've come to power just as deranged.

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