Andre S. Veteran Posted April 5, 2014 Veteran Share Posted April 5, 2014 Well, as I had hoped, there were some good surprises at BUILD 2014. Heard at the Windows Desktop Development: A Panel Discussion event yesterday (44:58): Let me describe a scenario. If you have a 30 inch monitor on your desktop today, would your expectation be that you run one application at a time that?s maximized, or would your expectation be that you would run multiple applications? It?s multiple applications. And then usually the next point is: if you have multiple applications, why would you want it to be constrained to a single long bar at the side of your screen? A lot of what Joe was saying about focusing on consumer scenarios, nailing touch, nailing the phone and the tablet form factors, I think it?s the natural evolution to think about desktop next. And think about how we actually take windowing to the next level. Windowing on a large screen equals overlapping windows, it equals multiple windows at multiple sizes. I think it is very much a natural evolution to say, hey, why is my app launcher going to take up my 30 inch monitor when I?m just trying to launch an app, taking me out of the context of my application? It?s just a natural evolution of the kind of thinking, once you say that we really have to nail the experience on the desktop. So basically what we're finally hearing from Microsoft after 2 years of contradictory marketing, is that the full-screen app launcher and limited multi-tasking mode introduced in Win8 were designed to provide a great experience on touch, phone and tablet form factors, but they don't make sense on a 30 inch monitor sitting on a desktop. The return of the start menu is about "nailing the experience on the desktop". ViperAFK, Ian W, +Anarkii and 20 others 23 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
123456789A Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 Wow this is great news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macoman Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 Great news also for people that still have old or new laptops that does not have touch capabilities. Elliot B. 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+virtorio MVC Posted April 5, 2014 MVC Share Posted April 5, 2014 That's more like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATLien_0 Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 Computing is ever evolving, Microsoft took a bet and gamble on Windows 8, with the hybrid approach. With the original intent, it was the desktop as an app. I think its only fair to say that Microsoft has realized, that this can't work on a true desktop environment. I'm glad to see them making the necessary adjustment, and realizing that the desktop as a whole needs attention not removal. Lord Method Man, ViperAFK, hamslammer and 1 other 4 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raa Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 It's really good to see Microsoft finally listening to the feedback. (Y) I'm just saddened it took them that long to do it. ViperAFK, dvb2000, Lord Method Man and 3 others 6 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfish Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 Well, as I had hoped, there were some good surprises at BUILD 2014. Heard at the Windows Desktop Development: A Panel Discussion event yesterday (44:58): Let me describe a scenario. If you have a 30 inch monitor on your desktop today, would your expectation be that you run one application at a time that?s maximized, or would your expectation be that you would run multiple applications? It?s multiple applications. And then usually the next point is: if you have multiple applications, why would you want it to be constrained to a single long bar at the side of your screen? A lot of what Joe was saying about focusing on consumer scenarios, nailing touch, nailing the phone and the tablet form factors, I think it?s the natural evolution to think about desktop next. And think about how we actually take windowing to the next level. Windowing on a large screen equals overlapping windows, it equals multiple windows at multiple sizes. I think it is very much a natural evolution to say, hey, why is my app launcher going to take up my 30 inch monitor when I?m just trying to launch an app, taking me out of the context of my application? It?s just a natural evolution of the kind of thinking, once you say that we really have to nail the experience on the desktop. So basically what we're finally hearing from Microsoft after 2 years of contradictory marketing, is that the full-screen app launcher and limited multi-tasking mode introduced in Win8 were designed to provide a great experience on touch, phone and tablet form factors, but they don't make sense on a 30 inch monitor sitting on a desktop. The return of the start menu is about "nailing the experience on the desktop". Nah, I don't think he's covering the Start Screen. I think he's covering other types of apps. I personally have always thought the Metro environment is too limited to replace the Desktop, and support the Desktop 100%, and think Microsoft needs to improve it instead of focusing on the full-screen environment. At the same time, I think the Start Screen is good as a full screen, and don't plan to use it as a menu when the update comes out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre S. Veteran Posted April 5, 2014 Author Veteran Share Posted April 5, 2014 Nah, I don't think he's covering the Start Screen. What do you think he means by "app launcher"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfish Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 What do you think he means by "app launcher"? I missed that, but honestly I think the Start Screen will continue to be the default in Windows. They're going to have to come up with something better than the Start Menu, at any rate. There's also a difference between a standard laptop screen and a 30" screen, which most people don't have. I think you're going to see talks about reinventing how windowing works in the OS in the future, in any case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre S. Veteran Posted April 5, 2014 Author Veteran Share Posted April 5, 2014 I think you're going to see talks about reinventing how windowing works in the OS in the future, in any case. Even after watching the desktop presentations it's not clear to me where they intend to take the desktop. On one hand they seem commited to evolving it enough so that it keeps working well on higher DPI screens, on the other they've called WPF a "mature" technology which isn't likely to see major improvements. Ian W 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfish Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 Even after watching the desktop presentations it's not clear to me where they intend to take the desktop. On one hand they seem commited to evolving it enough so that it keeps working well on higher DPI screens, on the other they've called WPF a "mature" technology which isn't likely to see major improvements. Well RT is really a better framework, I'd love to do desktop-based RT development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre S. Veteran Posted April 5, 2014 Author Veteran Share Posted April 5, 2014 Well RT is really a better framework, I'd love to do desktop-based RT development. You mean integrating RT components in a desktop app? They did mention they are considering that. I suggest you watch the talk if you're interested, I posted the link in the OP. There was a lot more "we're interested in your feedback" than hard promises, be warned though. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfish Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 You mean integrating RT components in a desktop app? They did mention they are considering that. I suggest you watch the talk if you're interested, I posted the link in the OP. There was a lot more "we're interested in your feedback" than hard promises, be warned though. :p You can already integrate some RT API into desktop app. I mean build an entire desktop app on top of RT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinetheo Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 I am very disappointed Windows 9 was not introduced. Decebalvs Rex, dvb2000 and +Anarkii 3 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Method Man Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 This is just great. I feel like I've woken up from a bad dream over the past 2 years. dvb2000 and LaP 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvb2000 Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 It's really good to see Microsoft finally listening to the feedback. (Y) I'm just saddened it took them that long to do it. And a shame they aren't admitting their past failures, saying "the Desktop is the next step" is pathetic. The desktop was already there and they tried to kill it (to their own detriment). Raa and Ian W 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenwizard88 Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 I am very disappointed Windows 9 was not introduced. From what I understand, 8.1 was a "major" update, and the update that brings back the start menu is just "a future windows update", meaning it might be 8.1 update 3, or 9. I don't think Microsoft has any internal difference between what goes into 8.1 update 3 or Windows 9, it's all marketing.... All marketing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfish Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 And a shame they aren't admitting their past failures, saying "the Desktop is the next step" is pathetic. The desktop was already there and they tried to kill it (to their own detriment). Why do you believe they tried to kill it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisj1968 Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 Well, as I had hoped, there were some good surprises at BUILD 2014. Heard at the Windows Desktop Development: A Panel Discussion event yesterday (44:58): Let me describe a scenario. If you have a 30 inch monitor on your desktop today, would your expectation be that you run one application at a time that?s maximized, or would your expectation be that you would run multiple applications? It?s multiple applications. And then usually the next point is: if you have multiple applications, why would you want it to be constrained to a single long bar at the side of your screen? A lot of what Joe was saying about focusing on consumer scenarios, nailing touch, nailing the phone and the tablet form factors, I think it?s the natural evolution to think about desktop next. And think about how we actually take windowing to the next level. Windowing on a large screen equals overlapping windows, it equals multiple windows at multiple sizes. I think it is very much a natural evolution to say, hey, why is my app launcher going to take up my 30 inch monitor when I?m just trying to launch an app, taking me out of the context of my application? It?s just a natural evolution of the kind of thinking, once you say that we really have to nail the experience on the desktop. So basically what we're finally hearing from Microsoft after 2 years of contradictory marketing, is that the full-screen app launcher and limited multi-tasking mode introduced in Win8 were designed to provide a great experience on touch, phone and tablet form factors, but they don't make sense on a 30 inch monitor sitting on a desktop. The return of the start menu is about "nailing the experience on the desktop". what? is the OS going backwards? multitasking intro'd with Win8? with all the multicore systems today? yikes.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Anarkii Subscriber² Posted April 5, 2014 Subscriber² Share Posted April 5, 2014 The desktop should of been the first step, considering 90% of people who own a Windows licence use it on the desktop. +Warwagon 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torolol Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 which steps of the Infamous Microsoft E.E.E plan is the desktop right now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raid0 Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 Now Ballmer you see the mistakes you did in the last 2 years :P dvb2000 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COKid Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 I would like to publicly thank Microsoft for Windows 8. It forced me to take another look at Linux. Now, six months into using Debian, I haven't looked back. Again, thank you and best of luck in the future. Sincerely, Former Customer dvb2000, +Anarkii, ditoax and 2 others 5 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krome Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 I am quitting game on Windows now so maybe it's a good time to head to the *nix also. If there's a DirectX engine in the *nix OS, I think you probably going to see a very sharp rise in *nix adoption. I would like to publicly thank Microsoft for Windows 8. It forced me to take another look at Linux. Now, six months into using Debian, I haven't looked back.Again, thank you and best of luck in the future.Sincerely,Former Customer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decebalvs Rex Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 Microsoft had the chance to do something right with their next OS considering that Windows 7 is a solid platform to hold on the following years. Why not write and develop for a few years and launch something complete rather than give us small pieces of pie and 300 mb updates? The last OS wich widened my eyelids was Vista, there was really new tech , new science and REALLY new BIG features... it was worth the wait. Ian W 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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