zdnet: How to extend XP forever and stay secure

[Max Norris]

Actually going with Linux will make the problems go away.

Sort of. A lot of the complaints here are focused around people just liking XP better, "it works so I don't want to upgrade", and "the new one sucks so I won't upgrade". Just for the sake of argument, picking Ubuntu as it's one of the most popular distros.. say you're a happy Ubuntu 10.04 user because you like Gnome 2. Upgrade to the new one? Not if you hate Unity and/or despise Gnome 3 with a passion. Switch to a different distro entirely? But you don't want to switch, you like Ubuntu 10.04 and it still works.. I'll just disconnect from the internet and still use it. Switch to a different distro using Mate? That's no better than slapping a start menu replacement on Windows 8, lipstick on a pig, it's still not the same. My ATI video card became legacy and the open source drivers don't run ____ well, and the proprietary drivers don't work with the later versions of X, so I won't upgrade. Sounds silly in the Linux world.. but this is the exact same coutner-argumetns people are giving to people who tell you to upgrade away from XP. There is no magic bullet if people don't want to change.

Not that I agree with it mind you.. I'd rather them switch to anything else as long as it's getting updates versus putting their fingers in their ears and pretending the problem doesn't affect them.

[primexx]

But, as was brought up earlier, doing that raises more problems.

such as making it practically useless :P

 

although I suppose in the isolated case where it's driving some special purpose machine in a closed system that might actually be a real solution.

[mak123]

using XP better try some linux OS..... now a days more user friendly.....

[simplezz]

A lot of the complaints here are focused around people just liking XP better, "it works so I don't want to upgrade", and "the new one sucks so I won't upgrade".

I can understand that. Like I said, I wouldn't force anyone to give up XP. Linux is a good alternative if someone does want to upgrade because either their computer can't run new versions of Windows, the cost of buying a Windows licence is too high for them, or they just don't like the newer versions and want to try something more familiar.

 

Just for the sake of argument, picking Ubuntu as it's one of the most popular distros.. say you're a happy Ubuntu 10.04 user because you like Gnome 2. Upgrade to the new one? Not if you hate Unity and/or despise Gnome 3 with a passion. Switch to a different distro entirely? But you don't want to switch, you like Ubuntu 10.04 and it still works..

The obvious choice is to switch to something like Mint which offers a MATE version. But assuming they want to keep Ubuntu and do an upgrade, it's possible to install MATE and run it instead of Unity afterwards.

 

I'll just disconnect from the internet and still use it. Switch to a different distro using Mate? That's no better than slapping a start menu replacement on Windows 8, lipstick on a pig, it's still not the same.

Well, MATE technically is Gnome 2 so it is the same. I've used it myself and it's very good for people who are comfortable with Gnome2.

 

My ATI video card became legacy and the open source drivers don't run ____ well, and the proprietary drivers don't work with the later versions of X, so I won't upgrade.

The FOSS drivers for older ATI/AMD cards work fine. In fact I've now switched to the FOSS driver myself for my r9 270. They guarantee compatibility with new Xorg and kernel versions. I also find that the performance improves over time.

 

Sounds silly in the Linux world.. but this is the exact same coutner-argumetns people are giving to people who tell you to upgrade away from XP. There is no magic bullet if people don't want to change.

I'm not suggesting that people change if they don't want to. I've got an XP/Xubuntu dual boot machine which has been happily working for years, and will continue for the foreseeable future. So I'm in no position to tell people to upgrade or change OS from XP. What I will say though is that if someone wants to upgrade away from XP for whatever reason, Linux is a good alternative because 1. It's free, and 2. There are a number of lightweight distros and DE's to choose from, many of which have a similar experience to XP, unlike Windows 8.

 

Not that I agree with it mind you.. I'd rather them switch to anything else as long as it's getting updates versus putting their fingers in their ears and pretending the problem doesn't affect them.

To be honest, I don't see any problems with staying with XP. If someone wants to upgrade that's a different situation, and I'll always recommend Linux because of its security, cost (free), choice of experience, and rich FOSS application ecosystem.

[cork1958]

Yay! :woot:

 

I know a few cheapskate people who might like this.

 

I even offered to upgrade my oldest brothers computer to Windows 7 for free but he wants nothing to do with that. His wife has Windows 7 on her laptop and he says he can't stand it! He's an old dog that can't stand learning new tricks!! :cry:

[Max Norris]

The obvious choice is to switch to something like Mint which offers a MATE version. But assuming they want to keep Ubuntu and do an upgrade, it's possible to install MATE and run it instead of Unity afterwards.

You're missing the part of "I don't want something that works like it", because you can easily tweak 8 to work like XP too, never mind some things that rely on Gnome 2 may or may not work with it.

 

The FOSS drivers for older ATI/AMD cards work fine. In fact I've now switched to the FOSS driver myself for my r9 270. They guarantee compatibility with new Xorg and kernel versions. I also find that the performance improves over time.

Improving, but benchmarks still say they've got a fair way to go to catch up. If you're just doing "regular" software, sure, they're plenty fast enough for that. High performance gaming still shows the legacy Catalyst driver (usually) still has a good lead against the open source version. Does the open source drivers even support OpenGL 4 yet? Last I checked it was still stuck in 3.x, but it's been a while since I've had cause to look.

 

To be honest, I don't see any problems with staying with XP.

The same reason why you wouldn't stay with Ubuntu 8.04 or Debian Etch. You're just asking for serious trouble with unpatched security vulnerabilities. Doesn't have to be random things you download either.. could be any number of system services that get exploited.

 

many of which have a similar experience to XP, unlike Windows 8.

Unless you take a few moments to tweak it and add a couple free open source programs into the lineup and it's very similar to XP, and has much better compatibility in the process. Just saying.

[Aergan]

been running 5 years straight with no UAC... NEVER a problem aside from small malware in temp folders, and this even WITH surfing porn, movie sites, warez sites, key gens, cracks, etc etc...sorry to disappoint you. I don't use windows app store, I was wrong there.

 

That's like saying "I've never worn a condom, but I've never contracted an STD or got someone pregnant"

[Rippleman]

That's like saying "I've never worn a condom, but I've never contracted an STD or got someone pregnant"

not really, because that would be based 100% on chance. I was showing, with proven past results, that UAC is unneeded in most cases.

 

using your analogy, i would say its like, "why wear on condom, if its my wife, shes on the pill, has a UID, and i am fixed?" After enough precautions, any additional effort is a waste.

[sinetheo]

The fact it looks like Vista gives these users sweaty hands as they think it's the same and will fight tooth and nail not to change.

 

 

My dad thought win 7 was Vista

Yay! :woot:

 

I know a few cheapskate people who might like this.

 

I even offered to upgrade my oldest brothers computer to Windows 7 for free but he wants nothing to do with that. His wife has Windows 7 on her laptop and he says he can't stand it! He's an old dog that can't stand learning new tricks!! :cry:

[SoCalRox]

This article is the true definition of "luddite"

I'm amused that a user named "Dot Matrix" with an avatar of Clippy is complaining about old tech.  :D

[Dot Matrix]

not really, because that would be based 100% on chance. I was showing, with proven past results, that UAC is unneeded in most cases.

 

using your analogy, i would say its like, "why wear on condom, if its my wife, shes on the pill, has a UID, and i am fixed?" After enough precautions, any additional effort is a waste.

UAC is just one of many layers in the security blanket in Windows Vista, 7, and 8. You're still looking at many others protecting you, that XP still doesn't have.

[Rippleman]

UAC is just one of many layers in the security blanket in Windows Vista, 7, and 8. You're still looking at many others protecting you, that XP still doesn't have.

all that I am saying is I know most anyone can use XP and be safe... as long as they have someone set it up for them correctly. Do I use XP? no. DO I suggest people should move on to something else? yes. But its not the end of the world if you continue to use it. if you like it, keep using it.  How does THEIR choice of OS affect me? That's right, it doesn't. Just the same way that you love metro, doesn't affect me one bit. Also my dislike for metro doesn't affect you. Why people get so worked up about what OS other people use is beyond my comprehension.

[Noir Angel]

Not always for nothing. Just like any OS, it'll eventually demand new hardware to keep it going.

 

Apart from the rather unmissable fact that unlike Microsoft there's no dictation as to what hardware Linux gets used on. It can be easily forked and trimmed down to make a lightweight distribution that will run nicely on older hardware. There are a couple of nice DE's that are far more user friendly than the lightweight stuff used to be.

[LimeMaster]

Wow, this thread is big! :o

 

The article is meant for people who want to make the most of their machines. They don't care about upgrading because their computer does everything they need it to. So, why do some people here care that some users are not upgrading considering It doesn't really affect any of us as far as I know?

[Anibal P]

Wow, this thread is big! :o

 

The article is meant for people who want to make the most of their machines. They don't care about upgrading because their computer does everything they need it to. So, why do some people here care that some users are not upgrading considering It doesn't really affect any of us as far as I know?

 

Because using XP is never a good idea anymore, better to spend $200 and get a win 7 system than use a potentially insecure system on the net, the same people not wanting top upgrade are the same types that don't update their AVs and click on any and all adds on the net

[xWhiplash]

Wow, this thread is big! :o

 

The article is meant for people who want to make the most of their machines. They don't care about upgrading because their computer does everything they need it to. So, why do some people here care that some users are not upgrading considering It doesn't really affect any of us as far as I know?

 

Because it is not good advice.  The best advice is to upgrade if you can.  Windows 7 can run on Pentium 4 hardware, and I have even heard people running it on 512MB of ram.  XP is no longer being supported.  The correct advice to give is upgrade if you can.  If you do any sensitive computing on a device, you need a supported OS.  

[Dot Matrix]

Installing a 3rd party shell isn't going to keep you safe. At the end of the day, you're still running XP, and it's still going to have holes that will never be fixed.

[Depicus]

Installing a 3rd party shell isn't going to keep you safe. At the end of the day, you're still running XP, and it's still going to have holes that will never be fixed.

 

And using Windows 8.1 will keep you safe ? 

 

 

Just to answer my own question no it will not. No operating system covers against idiots.

[srbeen]

If you keep XP offline its super secure. If you go online and bank, well..

[Hum]

I agree. XP may be reliable, but from this point forward it sure as hell shouldn't be considered secure. 2X might go ahead and replace the shell, but that only remedies a small portion of a much bigger security problem. At the very least people should be looking to upgrade their machines to a newer version of Window (or even Linux if feasible). Sticking with XP on an internet-connected machine is asking for trouble

It has been nearly a month since support has ended.

Where are all these XP disaster stories ?

The hysteria reminds me of the Y2K bug.

Probably a ploy to boost Microsoft sales of a unwanted product ...

[seta-san]

It has been nearly a month since support has ended.

Where are all these XP disaster stories ?

The hysteria reminds me of the Y2K bug.

Probably a ploy to boost Microsoft sales of a unwanted product ...

 

actually I've been wondering about this. I'd love to see symantic or some other company that focus' on malware to release any numbers that might be elevated.

[seta-san]

It has been nearly a month since support has ended.

Where are all these XP disaster stories ?

The hysteria reminds me of the Y2K bug.

Probably a ploy to boost Microsoft sales of a unwanted product ...

which is the unwanted product? windows 7 or 8? Certainly we're not forcing vista on them.

[Noir Angel]

Because it is not good advice.  The best advice is to upgrade if you can.  Windows 7 can run on Pentium 4 hardware, and I have even heard people running it on 512MB of ram.  XP is no longer being supported.  The correct advice to give is upgrade if you can.  If you do any sensitive computing on a device, you need a supported OS.  

 

Sure it can, it is however horribly slow with 512 MB of ram, hell I don't even like using it on a gig. Lubuntu however... perfectly usable. That being said, DDR is so cheap nowadays they could easily pop another 512 in for a few bucks. Still far better than wasting money on a new system.

That said, if you have to use an XDDM driver because your IGP doesn't have WDDM driver support (and a lot of IGPs from that era don't) it's almost unusably slow. IMO the best move for old boxes really is to put lightweight Linux on them.

[LimeMaster]

Because using XP is never a good idea anymore, better to spend $200 and get a win 7 system than use a potentially insecure system on the net, the same people not wanting top upgrade are the same types that don't update their AVs and click on any and all adds on the net

Well, If that's the case then there's not much point on them upgrading because they'll still get infected.

 

Because it is not good advice.  The best advice is to upgrade if you can.  Windows 7 can run on Pentium 4 hardware, and I have even heard people running it on 512MB of ram.  XP is no longer being supported.  The correct advice to give is upgrade if you can.  If you do any sensitive computing on a device, you need a supported OS.  

While I understand your point, it still doesn't affect anyone here, which is why I don't see what all the fuss is about. If they run into any problems it's themselves that will have to deal with it, not us.

[Hum]

which is the unwanted product? windows 7 or 8? Certainly we're not forcing vista on them.

Take your pick -- millions of XP users apparently don't want other versions. ;)