Xbox One Live Down - What would've happened with previous DRM Restrictions?


Recommended Posts

Either way the system is coming back for those that buy digitally. So we'll see, for the 10 friend/family sharing to work, they need online checks. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

http://support.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-one/system/learn-about-power-modes

 

Official support power guide says when powered off the PSU is turned off which means the internet connection is not active hence why it doesn't download updates. In stand-by (Instant-On) it is still connected to the internet and can download updates but I wasn't discussing stand-by mode 

When the console is completely off (disconnected from the outlet), it waits 24-hours after it turns on again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The intention is to use connected standby or instant on, if you choose to use the complete power of option AND you weren't on it while live went down then it would have caused an issue. Instant on also updates your games and console in the background as well as being faster to turn 'on'.

 

So it wouldn't have been an issue for most, and if it was an issue for you then its because of a choice you made.

 

The low lower state uses minimal power, I'd say if left on for a year we're talking the same power to make a few cups of coffee.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So you think if it had the DRM it would only have stand-by mode and no power-off mode like now?

 

The number of people who turn off standby mode has to be insanely small...

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

i almost hate to respond to this hypothetical thread but I just wanted to say I mean seriously even if someone had their xbox offline somehow for more than 24 hours what do you think the chances are that they wanted to log in right in that 1 hour span of time xblive was down if they had already been off for 24hrs?  How many times has xblive been down for more than 1 hour? Like once back in 2007 and it was only some people and not everyone.  

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting idea for a thread.

 

Bring up an outage in order to expose something that never existed.

 

You guys can argue what ifs all day if you like, but what matters is that the drm does not exist and the outage didn't result in serious issues.

 

What might have happened with drm is hard to say since it was never implemented or completely explained.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

i almost hate to respond to this hypothetical thread but I just wanted to say I mean seriously even if someone had their xbox offline somehow for more than 24 hours what do you think the chances are that they wanted to log in right in that 1 hour span of time xblive was down if they had already been off for 24hrs?  How many times has xblive been down for more than 1 hour? Like once back in 2007 and it was only some people and not everyone.  

 

Service was down for about 4 hrs actually. Its been down at least 4 times since the start of the year. The one the other day and also these ones:

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2014/03/11/microsoft-xbox-live-outages-not-a-titanfall-issue/

http://www.joystiq.com/2014/03/25/xbox-live-services-currently-limited-on-xbox-one-xbox-360/

http://www.slashgear.com/titanfall-down-xbox-live-compute-outage-live-02327403/

http://www.wpcentral.com/xbox-live-service-outage-social-services

 

I'm sure a quick google search would find a few more, but you can look that up yourself if your really interested.

 

Interesting idea for a thread.

 

Bring up an outage in order to expose something that never existed.

 

You guys can argue what ifs all day if you like, but what matters is that the drm does not exist and the outage didn't result in serious issues.

 

What might have happened with drm is hard to say since it was never implemented or completely explained.

 

 

Actually DRM still exist to a certain extent, all Digitally downloaded games on the Xbox One need to ring home to make sure you own a copy of that game after some time.

 

 

Xbox One DRM check crashes live Killer Instinct tournament

http://www.vg247.com/2013/12/18/xbox-one-drm-check-crasheslive-killer-instinct-tournament/

 

But that wasn't my point, DRM was going to have various issues that would have affected your gameplay that is outside of your control like SImCity for example that was my point.

As you can see from the post in this thread a few people wanted and still want the DRM (It could actually come back if enough support goes behind it) but it was because just about everyone was against it that they removed it in the first place.. don't people who want the DRM restriction to return find it odd that a large majority of people were against it?

 

You can call people who wanted it gone dumb or misinformed or whatever you like till your blue in the face but Neowin is the only place I've seen were people actually wanted it and don't get ridiculed when they bring it up. Even in the petitions they had going to return DRM most petition signers were trolls 

 

examples:

 

Jason Mounce WHITBY, CANADA 10 months ago    Liked 64
Microsoft, I'll never buy your consoles so I'll help your deluded fanbase so there will be less a chance to see your zombie-fanbase over on Sony's demographic.
 
Please restrict 'me' and 'my' fellow Xbox players, we love bending over and taking it up the *** with DRM, an overpriced webcam that can spy on me and the ability to be shafted turns me on. This is why I want restrictions to come back because your visions of the future surely are what humanity strives to achieve - just as Loki said in The Avengers, we humans love to bow and be enslaved! So, why not start off with Xbox One being the leap into that direction?

 

Diadre Erdaid S?O PAULO, BRAZIL 10 months ago    Liked 54
Just signed... This one is for you Sony <3!

 

Damian Talaga MITCHAM, UNITED KINGDOM 10 months ago    Liked 43
its important to me, that way all the retard will stay on xbox one, leaving ps4 with only pure games not tards

 

 

Retards Annon STUPIDPEOPLE, CA 10 months ago    Liked 38
I'll support this for the endless waves of stupid people to enjoy being screwed over by Microsoft.

 

Donald Myers BAKERSFIELD, CA 10 months ago    Liked 33
Because I seriously want to see Microsoft never make another video game console ever again if their fans are such tools.

 

Lexington Steele LOS ANGELES, CA 10 months ago    Liked 25
I am signing this because i am getting a ps4 so basically i do not care

 

 

Larry Brannon MADRID, SPAIN 10 months ago    Liked 16
I love the Xbox <3 Restricting people is the future I mean just look at the dictatorship in Zimbabwe. Zimbabwe is the most futuristic country in the world due to restrictions.

 

 

These are some of the most upvoted comments on the largest DRM return petition I've seen with 25k vites. (I'm guessing at-least 50% were troll votes)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

...

Actually DRM still exist to a certain extent, all Digitally downloaded games on the Xbox One need to ring home to make sure you own a copy of that game after some time.

...

Which is unchanged from the 360 actually, if you lose network access you've got 10 minutes to get it back or it boots you to the dashboard.

Somehow, people never really had an issue with that though.

Speaking of Sim City, one of the lies Maxis said was that it needed constant connection to their servers (They lied and said computers weren't powerful enough to handle the game), it had a similar 10 minute timeout as well though (Which was patched out by modders fairly quickly)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Which is unchanged from the 360 actually, if you lose network access you've got 10 minutes to get it back or it boots you to the dashboard.

Somehow, people never really had an issue with that though.

Speaking of Sim City, one of the lies Maxis said was that it needed constant connection to their servers (They lied and said computers weren't powerful enough to handle the game), it had a similar 10 minute timeout as well though (Which was patched out by modders fairly quickly)

 

I am going to guess that people with unstable internet connections would probably not buy digital and therefore wouldn't have the issue, good that they have a choice of physical and digital copies and not need to do online check-in's periodically for everything right?

 

SimCity was supposed to use the 'cloud' 

 

http://www.simcity.com/en_US/blog/article/The-Benefits-of-Live-Service

 

Which is why it was supposed to be always online, also these modders who patched out the timeout are considered hackers/crackers. Its the reason why DRM exists to try stop people from cracking their game which allows people to copy and distribute it for free. While at the same time inconveniencing normal users who paid for the product. (But the always online / cloud / DRM didn't really stop the hackers/crackers and all it did was create problems for paying customers)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Which is unchanged from the 360 actually, if you lose network access you've got 10 minutes to get it back or it boots you to the dashboard.

Somehow, people never really had an issue with that though.

Speaking of Sim City, one of the lies Maxis said was that it needed constant connection to their servers (They lied and said computers weren't powerful enough to handle the game), it had a similar 10 minute timeout as well though (Which was patched out by modders fairly quickly)

 

If you download a digital game on the Xbox 360 you can play the game offline indefinitely on the console that purchased it, you do not have to check in with the Xbox servers every 10 minutes.

 

However if you have purchased a game, then want to play that game on a different console, the Xbox Live profile which purchased the game has to be signed in on that console, otherwise the game can't be played as the console has no licence for it.

 

You can however transfer the licence for that game to a new console for example every 4 months, allowing you to play offline indefinitely on that new console, however the licence is then revoked from the console that purchased it.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

old system: you move...you won't have internet/tv for a few days so you decide to play some games...oops...no can do since you've got no internet...hope you've got a PS4 or an older system because the XbOne is a brick...

 

(while i do see the advantages of the old system, like not needing to put your discs in after the initial install...there were definitely numerous factors that either sucked out right or that just weren't explained very well)

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

how often do you move ? and how often do you move without internet being ready by the time you move in ?

 

it's amazing the lengths people went and still go to to find unlikely and rare scenarios against the old system.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Which is why it was supposed to be always online, also these modders who patched out the timeout are considered hackers/crackers. Its the reason why DRM exists to try stop people from cracking their game which allows people to copy and distribute it for free. While at the same time inconveniencing normal users who paid for the product. (But the always online / cloud / DRM didn't really stop the hackers/crackers and all it did was create problems for paying customers)

 

And you assume that after such a failed attempt, others would try to simulate the same thing? Honestly, even if we are beating a dead horse here is seems people are still willing to go to great lengths to try and paint any and ALL kinds of DRM as evil. Yet conveniently ignore something like Steam because it's "not the same thing".

And fact is, in order to play anything offline with steam you have to first be online to verify the game. And I've had several games which require Steam to run that aren't even Valve games (R.U.S.E. for example).

The reality is, this is where the gaming industry is going. If done right the DRM will be unnoticeable and to assume that any other implementation than Valves will be an utter inconvenience that's not worth the risk is just mind boggling. I'm tired of double standards. One company can do it, but no one else can because it's just "wrong".

The excuse that it's to fight piracy hasn't been used by game publishers/developers for a while now. Most often it's to include other features that require the cloud in some form. Sim City is the worst example, which doesn't help your point at all. We can point out bad implementations of anything all day long. Should game companies stop hyping games because of stuff like BRINK which completely and utterly fell short? Should Microsoft have cancelled XBL plans because Halo 2's multiplayer was such a disaster for a long period of time?

Failure and poor performance are not justification to eliminate a practice from the industry. Far from it. It means they just need to rethink it's implementation. And everyone's assumptions before, during and after Microsoft discussed their always on connection people did nothing but compare it to the worst possible scenario and assume it would be disaster.

Well, congratulations you got what you wanted. They gave up on it. So stop kicking them for something they LISTENED to you all about, even though the gaming community blew it high and away past what it probably would have been.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

how often do you move ? and how often do you move without internet being ready by the time you move in ?

 

it's amazing the lengths people went and still go to to find unlikely and rare scenarios against the old system.

 

Come on man, some people move a lot. So they can't enjoy gaming? And what about storms? Power's back on, internet still down. Not allowed to take solace in gaming? For the near future every device must have an offline mode, and 24 hours was simply not enough.

 

It's also not hypothetical as some may think - the key takeaway for me is that XBL is having a lot of issues recently, with frequent service outages. Last month it was the sales system that caused purchases to glitch and vanish, then over the weekend i get a "can't sign in" thing. No panic, figured it was a system thing, but should not happen. Granted it didn't take that long to fix.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't see people moving several times a year to locations without internet ready.  or even yearly.

 

and storms usually don't last more than 24 hours. 

 

and yes it's hypothetical, all these glitches have been very short, they're talking hypothetical 24h+ outages. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

old system: you move...you won't have internet/tv for a few days so you decide to play some games...oops...no can do since you've got no internet...hope you've got a PS4 or an older system because the XbOne is a brick...

 

(while i do see the advantages of the old system, like not needing to put your discs in after the initial install...there were definitely numerous factors that either sucked out right or that just weren't explained very well)

If I remember right, PS4 has a similar DRM system in place for digital games. So PS4 games would die the exact same death as X1.

 

Javascript is not enabled or refresh the page to view.

Click here to view the Tweet

 

 

People make a big deal about DRM and the irony is that consoles are built on top of various DRM technologies. That Blu-ray disc? full of DRM. Can't install your own software on it? DRM. Can't install your own OS on it? DRM!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If I remember right, PS4 has a similar DRM system in place for digital games. So PS4 games would die the exact same death as X1.

 

Javascript is not enabled or refresh the page to view.

Click here to view the Tweet

 

 

People make a big deal about DRM and the irony is that consoles are built on top of various DRM technologies. That Blu-ray disc? full of DRM. Can't install your own software on it? DRM. Can't install your own OS on it? DRM!

 

If you download a digital game on your PS4 you can play it offline anytime you want, it doesn't require any online checks. The PS4 has to be the primary PS4 for you account (This is automatically setup when you do your first log in I think).

 

But if you want to play PSN Games at a fiends house and log in on their PS4 you can play until your friend logs you out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't see people moving several times a year to locations without internet ready.  or even yearly.

 

and storms usually don't last more than 24 hours. 

 

and yes it's hypothetical, all these glitches have been very short, they're talking hypothetical 24h+ outages. 

 

Not to be argumentative, but ask people in parts of Arkansas and Missouri right now about how long you can go without internet when the twisters hit. It may be isolated, but it's not hypothetical, it happens. I agree a business can't accommodate everyone and shouldn't, because that is no longer a business - it becomes a charity. But they should not go out of their way to make things difficult and try to design products for unrealistic requirements. You know very well many people in the world experience power outages that last longer than a day. When internet connectivity as as robust as running water, then we can start designing electronics with no offline modes.

 

EDIT: at least as robust as running water...even that has outages sadly. There's a reason internet isn't considered a utility in most jurisdictions, the reliability isn't there yet and it's not considered a must for "peaceful habitation" or whatever the law calls living reasonably well in your home.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Put it this way, regardless of someone been for or against DRM proposed by Microsoft the consumer won in the end.

 

Why? because we have a used game market not controlled by Microsoft.

 

For example lets look at Halo 4:

 

New Digital Download: ?29.99

New Disc Copy: ?13.34

Used Disc Copy: ?3.98

 

If games had to be de authorised by Microsoft, at selected participating stores before been re sold there's is no way we would still be able to purchase a game that's a year and a half old for less than ?5.

 

We can play games offline, purchase cheap used games, plus if Microsoft really wanted to i see no reason why we couldn't have game sharing for digital downloaded games, nothing has changed to make that impossible.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Put it this way, regardless of someone been for or against DRM proposed by Microsoft the consumer won in the end.

 

Why? because we have a used game market not controlled by Microsoft.

 

For example lets look at Halo 4:

 

New Digital Download: ?29.99

New Disc Copy: ?13.34

Used Disc Copy: ?3.98

 

If games had to be de authorised by Microsoft, at selected participating stores before been re sold there's is no way we would still be able to purchase a game that's a year and a half old for less than ?5.

 

We can play games offline, purchase cheap used games, plus if Microsoft really wanted to i see no reason why we couldn't have game sharing for digital downloaded games, nothing has changed to make that impossible.

 

One of the real issues  (Y) Taking away consumer choice is a no-no.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Put it this way, regardless of someone been for or against DRM proposed by Microsoft the consumer won in the end.

 

Why? because we have a used game market not controlled by Microsoft.

 

For example lets look at Halo 4:

 

New Digital Download: ?29.99

New Disc Copy: ?13.34

Used Disc Copy: ?3.98

 

If games had to be de authorised by Microsoft, at selected participating stores before been re sold there's is no way we would still be able to purchase a game that's a year and a half old for less than ?5.

 

We can play games offline, purchase cheap used games, plus if Microsoft really wanted to i see no reason why we couldn't have game sharing for digital downloaded games, nothing has changed to make that impossible.

 

Didn't they say on several occasions that they weren't restricting the resale of games and that the decision to do so would have been entirely up to the developer/publisher. Microsoft even explicitly said that they would not restrict the resale of any 1st party title. Yet here we are beating another dead horse which was entirely fabricated by the gaming community.

 

Just because you can find a disc copy in stores for cheaper than they are online doesn't make them "price gougers". This is true in almost every instance. The only exception is Steam and the reason that's true is because they have the user base to support large sales. Yet no one will give any other digital service a chance. I could have gotten Dead Space 3 online for $5 several times on Origin, yet no one mentions that fact here. And it's still $19.99 New at Gamestop, and $14-$16 used.

 

And btw, currently I think Dead Space 3 on Origin without any sales is $19.99 as well.

But no, digital companies like Microsoft and EA are robbing us of used market pricing with digital services and preventing us from buying things used. Doesn't matter what the reality is, only matters what our perception is. If you want to be angry at anyone about pricing BS, point your fingers at Nintendo first party AAA titles, and Blizzard.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Didn't they say on several occasions that they weren't restricting the resale of games and that the decision to do so would have been entirely up to the developer/publisher. Microsoft even explicitly said that they would not restrict the resale of any 1st party title. Yet here we are beating another dead horse which was entirely fabricated by the gaming community.

 

Just because you can find a disc copy in stores for cheaper than they are online doesn't make them "price gougers". This is true in almost every instance. The only exception is Steam and the reason that's true is because they have the user base to support large sales. Yet no one will give any other digital service a chance. I could have gotten Dead Space 3 online for $5 several times on Origin, yet no one mentions that fact here. And it's still $19.99 New at Gamestop, and $14-$16 used.

 

And btw, currently I think Dead Space 3 on Origin without any sales is $19.99 as well.

But no, digital companies like Microsoft and EA are robbing us of used market pricing with digital services and preventing us from buying things used. Doesn't matter what the reality is, only matters what our perception is. If you want to be angry at anyone about pricing BS, point your fingers at Nintendo first party AAA titles, and Blizzard.

It was only that price to try to get people to get the game when it wasn't released on steam.

 

And it's not beating a dead horse, just because it was optional by developers doesn't mean ###### if it still had the possibility of being USED AT ALL. How can something be made up, if it was available as an option?

 

Removing the OPTION to get the disk for $3 instead of $20 is the whole problem!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Didn't they say on several occasions that they weren't restricting the resale of games and that the decision to do so would have been entirely up to the developer/publisher. Microsoft even explicitly said that they would not restrict the resale of any 1st party title. Yet here we are beating another dead horse which was entirely fabricated by the gaming community.

 

Just because you can find a disc copy in stores for cheaper than they are online doesn't make them "price gougers". This is true in almost every instance. The only exception is Steam and the reason that's true is because they have the user base to support large sales. Yet no one will give any other digital service a chance. I could have gotten Dead Space 3 online for $5 several times on Origin, yet no one mentions that fact here. And it's still $19.99 New at Gamestop, and $14-$16 used.

 

And btw, currently I think Dead Space 3 on Origin without any sales is $19.99 as well.

But no, digital companies like Microsoft and EA are robbing us of used market pricing with digital services and preventing us from buying things used. Doesn't matter what the reality is, only matters what our perception is. If you want to be angry at anyone about pricing BS, point your fingers at Nintendo first party AAA titles, and Blizzard.

 

I think you might be remembering things a little incorrectly, there were multiple restrictions. You also cannot create the framework on your console to support blocking and then run away and hide behind "the decision isn't ours!" - You created the ammunition for the guns.

 

Giving games to friends:

 

The company added that ?Xbox One is designed so game publishers can enable you to give your disc-based games to your friends. There are no fees charged as part of these transfers. There are two requirements: you can only give them to people who have been on your friends list for at least 30 days and each game can only be given once.?

 

 

Trading games in:

 

Microsoft also spelled out its policies on game lending, trade-ins and rentals. "In our role as a game publisher, Microsoft Studios will enable you to give your games to friends or trade in your Xbox One games at participating retailers. Third party publishers may opt in or out of supporting game resale and may set up business terms or transfer fees with retailers. Microsoft does not receive any compensation as part of this. In addition, third party publishers can enable you to give games to friends."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This topic is now closed to further replies.