Why is the PS4 outselling the Xbox One? Microsoft weighs in

[Houtei]

 

I thought that was the case.

 

 

 

These are the other regions:

 

? Argentina

? Belgium

? Chile

? Colombia

? Czech Republic

? Denmark

? Finland

? Greece

? Hungary

? India

? Israel

? Japan

? Korea

? Netherlands

? Norway

? Poland

? Portugal

? Russia

? Saudi Arabia

? Singapore

? Slovakia

? South Africa

? Sweden

? Switzerland

? Turkey

? UAE

 

 

The Scandinavian markets might offer a boost. The Japanese don't really go for the Xboxes, despite being a big gaming market. I'm not really familiar with the gaming habits of the Middle-East or East/Central Euro countries. Pricing in S. America are prohibitively high, apparently.

 

I'd wager that if any of these were huge markets they would have been included in the initial release date.

 

korea is a major gaming market like top 5 in the world for how much they spend on games.  Also people forget xbox is coming to china which is 3rd in the world for how much it spends on gaming to US and Japan.  Several of those spend close to a billion a year on games so they def add a lot.

[compl3x]

korea is a major gaming market like top 5 in the world for how much they spend on games. 

 

 

PC. I know gaming there is a sport but my impression that is in the PC realm, not consoles. Happily corrected.

[GotBored]

korea is a major gaming market like top 5 in the world for how much they spend on games.  Also people forget xbox is coming to china which is 3rd in the world for how much it spends on gaming to US and Japan.  Several of those spend close to a billion a year on games so they def add a lot.

 

PS4 hasn't released in China yet either and also consoles have been banned from sale in China for 14 years, they lifted the ban in January this year but neither console has yet released there.

 

PC. I know gaming there is a sport but my impression that is in the PC realm, not consoles. Happily corrected.

 

Yes, South Korea is known as the PC gaming motherland. But when the PS4 released there it sold out and sales have been fairly good since but sales numbers are tiny compared to the major markets,

[trooper11]

Yes, South Korea is known as the PC gaming motherland. But when the PS4 released there it sold out and sales have been fairly good since but sales numbers are tiny compared to the major markets,

apparently, import sales of the X1 in those regions were doing well too, but I don't think there has been any official numbers.

[neoadorable]

That was more a little sarcasm on my front - Obviously the higher ups at MS decided to launch in the countries they would be forecasted to sell the most. The remaining countries won't suddenly substantially increase the gap towards the PS4, at least not to the point of parity some people seem to be thinking. The main issue as well anyway is that even sales from these countries may now be "damaged" as the PS4 launched in them and will have somewhat of a foothold. It's been since last November, and MS still haven't released. I think most people thought a few months for the initial rush, maybe 6 months tops...

 

The tier this and tier that comments from MS last year were definitely out of place, and indeed made many people feel like they are from small and unimportant places.

 

The release schedule for X1 has been a joke, with many 360 strongholds overlooked for unknown reasons. However, to MS' credit they basically said go ahead and import and are even supporting importers. They have also lifted most regional restrictions to enable this. Now that in Sept X1 is launching pretty much everywhere, i expect some of those regional restrictions to come back...

 

I really don't care if X1 sells more than PS4, i have both and use X1 more, but that's because i'm slightly biased towards Xbox and also because right now there's just more to play on X1 for me. This will change Tue when i get Wolfenstein on PS4 :devil:

 

And there is quite a lot of ignorance around here. Without naming names, many people that i suspect have never been to East Asia are simply quoting the usual "Xbox doesn't sell in Asia, it's all PC there" nonsense. Xbox 360 has reached parity with PS3 in most Asian markets, Asia is NOT the same as Japan. I've lived years in mainland China, HK, Singapore, and Taiwan and all of these places have an Xbox scene that rivals that of my native US. This made the lack of formal X1 release perplexing...but surprisingly most people are OK with the upcoming Sept release and it seems most is forgiven.

 

I really do hate it when people talk about stuff they really don't know anything about.

[GotBored]

apparently, import sales of the X1 in those regions were doing well too, but I don't think there has been any official numbers.

 

Those sales would've been counted in whichever country they were exported from as it hasn't been officially released in those regions they would have had to bought them from a retailer like Amazon US and then shipped over. These sales would have been counted as US sales.

 

And there is quite a lot of ignorance around here. Without naming names, many people that i suspect have never been to East Asia are simply quoting the usual "Xbox doesn't sell in Asia, it's all PC there" nonsense. Xbox 360 has reached parity with PS3 in most Asian markets, Asia is NOT the same as Japan. I've lived years in mainland China, HK, Singapore, and Taiwan and all of these places have an Xbox scene that rivals that of my native US. This made the lack of formal X1 release perplexing...but surprisingly most people are OK with the upcoming Sept release and it seems most is forgiven.

 

I really do hate it when people talk about stuff they really don't know anything about.

 

Firstly Japan is a part of Asia, so not sure how its not the same as Asia. Secondly China, Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, India, Afghanistan, Iraq, South Korea, Maldives, Singapore, Qatar, UAE and Vietnam these are places I've visited and even lived in for a short periods of time. I don't remember Xbox being big or popular, I'd even be partially surprised if people even knew what an xbox was in most of these places.

 

Back to China, with the console ban that was around since before the Xbox 360 was released and only was just lifted this January how does the Chinese Xbox scene rival that of the US one?

[trooper11]

Those sales would've been counted in whichever country they were exported from as it hasn't been officially released in those regions they would have had to bought them from a retailer like Amazon US and then shipped over. These sales would have been counted as US sales.

Yep, my point is that it shows there is demand in those regions which could be a good sign when it finally launches there.

[BajiRav]

Firstly Japan is a part of Asia, so not sure how its not the same as Asia. Secondly China, Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, India, Afghanistan, Iraq, South Korea, Maldives, Singapore, Qatar, UAE and Vietnam these are places I've visited and even lived in for a short periods of time. I don't remember Xbox being big or popular, I'd even be partially surprised if people even knew what an xbox was in most of these places.

 

Back to China, with the console ban that was around since before the Xbox 360 was released and only was just lifted this January how does the Chinese Xbox scene rival that of the US one?

 

People know about Xbox and Playstation in India, they are just freaking expensive to own and play.

[jasondefaoite]

<snip>

 

The release schedule for X1 has been a joke, with many 360 strongholds overlooked for unknown reasons.

 

<snip>

 

Without naming names, many people that i suspect have never been to East Asia are simply quoting the usual "Xbox doesn't sell in Asia, it's all PC there" nonsense. Xbox 360 has reached parity with PS3 in most Asian markets, Asia is NOT the same as Japan. I've lived years in mainland China, HK, Singapore, and Taiwan and all of these places have an Xbox scene that rivals that of my native US. This made the lack of formal X1 release perplexing...but surprisingly most people are OK with the upcoming Sept release and it seems most is forgiven.

 

I suspect the release schedule for X1 was like the way it was because of the Kinect. The voice recognition part specifically, which would need to be localised for each market. This would take time. The ditching of Kinect will help both with the cost but also reduce the work needed to make the X1 ready for that market.

 

I live in Singapore, and while there is a very vibrant console scene here, the market itself is pretty small. The PS4 is out here, and the X1 in September. I've never owned a PS, and had all Sega's before the original xbox followed by the 360. I'll probably wait till Xmas 2014 before I purchase another console, but in all honesty I'm leaning PS4. Will wait to see how many of the X1 features got canned for the Singapore market before I decide. 

[neoadorable]

I suspect the release schedule for X1 was like the way it was because of the Kinect. The voice recognition part specifically, which would need to be localised for each market. This would take time. The ditching of Kinect will help both with the cost but also reduce the work needed to make the X1 ready for that market.

 

I live in Singapore, and while there is a very vibrant console scene here, the market itself is pretty small. The PS4 is out here, and the X1 in September. I've never owned a PS, and had all Sega's before the original xbox followed by the 360. I'll probably wait till Xmas 2014 before I purchase another console, but in all honesty I'm leaning PS4. Will wait to see how many of the X1 features got canned for the Singapore market before I decide. 

 

It didn't seem like a small scene when i was lining up at Funan with like 2,000 people for Halo Reach of all things, i'm sure you remember that :D

 

The release schedule for X1 must have had reasons MS thought were legit, but it was insulting nonetheless. There was no need to wait nearly a year for so many important markets. More effort could have gone into localization, and i find it especially odd that games like Ryse and Forza 5 were already localized for places they won't even launch at until Sept. That means they were ready at least a year ago.

 

I don't need to tell you this, but while places like Singapore, HK, and Taiwan may be smaller than the US or UK in terms of population, the gaming spend and attach rate is at least on par if not higher.

[Vigilant]

Microsoft really makes good products sometimes. The xbox one is definitely one of them.

The xbox one has been a PR disaster and the sooner they can admit that, and talk up the pros of their system the better.

Otherwise all of this looks like sound clip lip treatment.

I really like my xbox one. I actually have two of them after having a ps4 for a few months so definitely not trying to hate

[McKay]

I think overall the Xbox will be fine this gen. PS3 last gen was more expensive and had mostly worse looking games. The Fans still bought it and played it though. 

[trooper11]

Microsoft really makes good products sometimes. The xbox one is definitely one of them.

The xbox one has been a PR disaster and the sooner they can admit that, and talk up the pros of their system the better.

Otherwise all of this looks like sound clip lip treatment.

I really like my xbox one. I actually have two of them after having a ps4 for a few months so definitely not trying to hate

What do they have to do? Do they need to have a big press conference and admit just how crappy they were pr wise? Honestly, I think that does nothing for them and just bring on more negative pr.

Instead, the best medicine is to push forward and wow customers with game content and new features thanks to software updates. Forget pr spin and just focus on raw content. I think they have been doing that recently, even pushing the points that make the X1 a good console much better.

Oh and its easy to fault the high level pr, but don't forget that there is a much strong pr going on at the local levels wherever there is a Microsoft Store. At the local level, MS is doing such a better job.

[Vigilant]

What do they have to do? Do they need to have a big press conference and admit just how crappy they were pr wise? Honestly, I think that does nothing for them and just bring on more negative pr.

Instead, the best medicine is to push forward and wow customers with game content and new features thanks to software updates. Forget pr spin and just focus on raw content. I think they have been doing that recently, even pushing the points that make the X1 a good console much better.

Oh and its easy to fault the high level pr, but don't forget that there is a much strong pr going on at the local levels wherever there is a Microsoft Store. At the local level, MS is doing such a better job.

I'm not saying they need admit they did a crappy or job. Rather broadly acknowledge that they came into this ready to make gamers happy and they are taking steps along the way. An admission of mistake can be positive if done the right way and it endears the public towards them.

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

I don't know, I think MS have recovered very nicely and making all the right moves which will bring back confidence and sales to the Xbox.

 

All they really need to do in my eyes is stop with the silly comments on social media, and have their responses to the media passed by Phil maybe a few times before it's given the thumbs up :p Phil himself is fine talking to them, but his team constantly drop the ball and show them up. Not that I really think that has any influence to your average joe gamer / buyer, just the hardcore online types.

 

They're having an awesome E3 and the event hasn't even officially begun :laugh:

[Vigilant]

I don't know, I think MS have recovered very nicely and making all the right moves which will bring back confidence and sales to the Xbox.

All they really need to do in my eyes is stop with the silly comments on social media, and have their responses to the media passed by Phil maybe a few times before it's given the thumbs up :p Phil himself is fine talking to them, but his team constantly drop the ball and show them up. Not that I really think that has any influence to your average joe gamer / buyer, just the hardcore online types.

They're having an awesome E3 and the event hasn't even officially begun :laugh:

I agree, I think they've done a fine job recovering, they just need to not stop :-)

I think the three OS'es on the xbox was a bad idea that is taking away valuable resources from the games. I love my xbox one (so much so I picked up a second one a week later. A point I think worth repeating) but the ps4 really does have noticeably better graphics and performance. Bundling the Kinect and charging $100 to have it I'd say is the single biggest reason they are 2 million units (basically 50%) behind in console sales.

I know Microsoft will fix things. They just need to not I've up momentum.

[George P Global Moderator]

Well, it's too early now but it'll be interesting to see where June ends, or even more so July with the new $399 SKU out.

 

And I agree, they've made big changes that fans wanted, Phil has all the support he needs.  I don't think anyone should question this guy like they did when the news first broke about him being the new boss.    MS should really go the extra step, and I think this is still the plan just delayed but, the rumor/leak about a even cheaper media only Xbox One SKU should happen.  With the change they made to gold and freeing the media apps from the paywall, plus expanding the OneGuide to more countries, it's time to come out with a digital only media XB1.  No Kinect or with Kinect, might as well have two versions of this one to, and no BDrive, not so much about cost but to get it's size down.

 

A media only XB1 with the ability to still let you play full XB1 games (through digital download, no discs) for, say $199 w/o Kinect and $299 w/ Kinect, would be a huge move.   I think this is still going to happen but probably next year after they've finally released the XB1 in those 25 additional markets and so on.

[Vigilant]

Well, it's too early now but it'll be interesting to see where June ends, or even more so July with the new $399 SKU out.

And I agree, they've made big changes that fans wanted, Phil has all the support he needs. I don't think anyone should question this guy like they did when the news first broke about him being the new boss. MS should really go the extra step, and I think this is still the plan just delayed but, the rumor/leak about a even cheaper media only Xbox One SKU should happen. With the change they made to gold and freeing the media apps from the paywall, plus expanding the OneGuide to more countries, it's time to come out with a digital only media XB1. No Kinect or with Kinect, might as well have two versions of this one to, and no BDrive, not so much about cost but to get it's size down.

A media only XB1 with the ability to still let you play full XB1 games (through digital download, no discs) for, say $199 w/o Kinect and $299 w/ Kinect, would be a huge move. I think this is still going to happen but probably next year after they've finally released the XB1 in those 25 additional markets and so on.

I agree that they should do it. I have never even put a disk in my xbox one. But the pricing you have is very very optimistic. I wouldn't expect it to be more then $50 less then the current. These boxes aren't major profit centers to begin with. There simply isn't enough wiggle room in the margins.

[George P Global Moderator]

I agree, I think they've done a fine job recovering, they just need to not stop :-)

I think the three OS'es on the xbox was a bad idea that is taking away valuable resources from the games. I love my xbox one (so much so I picked up a second one a week later. A point I think worth repeating) but the ps4 really does have noticeably better graphics and performance. Bundling the Kinect and charging $100 to have it I'd say is the single biggest reason they are 2 million units (basically 50%) behind in console sales.

I know Microsoft will fix things. They just need to not I've up momentum.

 

I don't think the OS layout, basically hyper-V and then 2 OS's on top, is the wrong thing to do, at least a game freezing shouldn't freeze up my whole XB1, but I can't be sure about that, in theory anyway it shouldn't.

 

I think the issue is that it was rushed, blame the DRM changes as well that added to it, but it's clear that both systems were rushed to market and should've actually came out holiday 2014 IMO.   But with how quick MS is updating the XB1 software I think it'll only improve.  June update sounds like a big performance booster, people are saying Kinect is working better for them than before, and I have to bet the rest of the system has also seen a improvement. 

 

They'll clean up the OS' and by the end of this year it could be totally different than before.  I don't think it also takes away from games, it's a whole different group working on the OS and those working on games, games were always going to take 2-3 years to come out so who knows when developers started working on them.

 

Look at how many games have been delayed so far, and they're not just XB1 games, but for both systems, developers need that extra 4-6 months or more it seems.

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

Well, it's too early now but it'll be interesting to see where June ends, or even more so July with the new $399 SKU out.

 

And I agree, they've made big changes that fans wanted, Phil has all the support he needs.  I don't think anyone should question this guy like they did when the news first broke about him being the new boss.    MS should really go the extra step, and I think this is still the plan just delayed but, the rumor/leak about a even cheaper media only Xbox One SKU should happen.  With the change they made to gold and freeing the media apps from the paywall, plus expanding the OneGuide to more countries, it's time to come out with a digital only media XB1.  No Kinect or with Kinect, might as well have two versions of this one to, and no BDrive, not so much about cost but to get it's size down.

 

A media only XB1 with the ability to still let you play full XB1 games (through digital download, no discs) for, say $199 w/o Kinect and $299 w/ Kinect, would be a huge move.   I think this is still going to happen but probably next year after they've finally released the XB1 in those 25 additional markets and so on.

 

I've questioned him, not because I don't think he's not a good fit for the role or a good leader, but I don't like that he cancelled new IP in favour of another sequel. My biggest gripe (far and above paywalls, kinect and drm) is Microsoft's 4 crutches: Fable, Forza, Gears and Halo. All 4 of them have sequels in the work, in some cases multiple sequels, which is overkill and what has lost them support over the years. Say what you will about tastes and it being subjective, but one thing Sony has at least got is diversity. Not all of them are winners in my book but it certainly helps broaden your appeal and sell consoles. OG Xbox was mocked for being the FPS console, 360 improved that image but at the cost of flooding and in some cases blemishing their names / quality.

 

I'm not sold on Quantum Break for instance, but I applaud them for finally doing something new and fresh. More risks like that are necessary, especially when people like to mention they have financial security. You can do just as much damage cancelling new IP in favour of security as sticking to the same line up year after year.

[George P Global Moderator]

I agree that they should do it. I have never even put a disk in my xbox one. But the pricing you have is very very optimistic. I wouldn't expect it to be more then $50 less then the current. These boxes aren't major profit centers to begin with. There simply isn't enough wiggle room in the margins.

 

That's why it'd be later, maybe for Holiday 2015 when the hardware prices have dropped more and margins are better.  I think the pricing works out though, maybe I'm a bit too aggressive with the $199 but MS could be more than willing to take the hit and make it up through selling you games and apps through the XB store, remember, no disc drive so you'll only be buying through them, no retailer getting a cut like GameStop.  So they can work out the numbers and figure, we'll take the extra $100 hit or more on the hardware but then we'll sell them 2 or 3 games and have made a profit from that.

 

If not $199 then $299 w/o Kinect and no disc drive.  So then you add Kinect for extra $100 making it $399 which would be the same price as the current XB1 with disc drive but no Kinect, this is probably more realistic and doable. 

[Vigilant]

I don't think the OS layout, basically hyper-V and then 2 OS's on top, is the wrong thing to do, at least a game freezing shouldn't freeze up my whole XB1, but I can't be sure about that, in theory anyway it shouldn't.

I think the issue is that it was rushed, blame the DRM changes as well that added to it, but it's clear that both systems were rushed to market and should've actually came out holiday 2014 IMO. But with how quick MS is updating the XB1 software I think it'll only improve. June update sounds like a big performance booster, people are saying Kinect is working better for them than before, and I have to bet the rest of the system has also seen a improvement.

They'll clean up the OS' and by the end of this year it could be totally different than before. I don't think it also takes away from games, it's a whole different group working on the OS and those working on games, games were always going to take 2-3 years to come out so who knows when developers started working on them.

Look at how many games have been delayed so far, and they're not just XB1 games, but for both systems, developers need that extra 4-6 months or more it seems.

The simple problem with hyper-v and the two other OS is that hyper-v is controlling the hardware and that additional interrupt is noticeable in some areas like watching Hulu during Titanfall, or TV in general. I've setup Hyper-V in a server environment before and it's a very good free type-1 hypervisor. But in the same way I wouldn't recommend under many scenarios putting SQL server on Hyper-V I don't think putting the Xbox OS on it is ideal. Not yet at least. Hypervisors have come a long way over the past few years. In the short term it's a con not a pro. Just a for instance, Xbox OS only gets 5GB of the memory. This see,s incredibly conservative. A slimmed down versions of Windows that only performs one app at a time doesn't need 3GB. It definitely doesn't need that much just to play Netflix. But that's the way it's configured.

I know the improvements are coming. The decisions that were made were just plain bad.

[George P Global Moderator]

I've questioned him, not because I don't think he's not a good fit for the role or a good leader, but I don't like that he cancelled new IP in favour of another sequel. My biggest gripe (far and above paywalls, kinect and drm) is Microsoft's 4 crutches: Fable, Forza, Gears and Halo. All 4 of them have sequels in the work, in some cases multiple sequels, which is overkill and what has lost them support over the years. Say what you will about tastes and it being subjective, but one thing Sony has at least got is diversity. Not all of them are winners in my book but it certainly helps broaden your appeal and sell consoles. OG Xbox was mocked for being the FPS console, 360 improved that image but at the cost of flooding and in some cases blemishing their names / quality.

 

I'm not sold on Quantum Break for instance, but I applaud them for finally doing something new and fresh. More risks like that are necessary, especially when people like to mention they have financial security. You can do just as much damage cancelling new IP in favour of security as sticking to the same line up year after year.

 

I agree that they need more new IP but I also think rebooting older IP  counts for something.  They're willing to do so, KI IMO is just the start but let's also be realistic here, every big developer has it's core IP that they're going to use to pump out more sequels and milk the fanbase, it's a sure thing.

 

I mean, Nintendo is the dead give away here, they're the Mario, Zelda, and Metroid company.   Sony has it's stuff, Uncharted, killzone, GT, and maybe one or two more.   EA is well known, Activision and so on.     I see it as this, the companies need these in order to give us new stuff, the sure things make them money which in turn makes them bet on something new.  If those new things pan out then great but I'd say most of the time they don't do well enough.

 

I think QB is going to be good, maybe it's because I'm a big Remedy fan but I loved Alan Wake and I'm betting we will get a 2nd one for the XB1 after QB but the truth is that AW had a slow start, if it was better initially then we'd be talking about AW2 right now and not QB.  In the end this is still a business and with how much game development for AAA titles keeps going up and up these sequel series trend isn't going to stop but it's one side of the coin, those are needed so we can get new things to.

[George P Global Moderator]

The simple problem with hyper-v and the two other OS is that hyper-v is controlling the hardware and that additional interrupt is noticeable in some areas like watching Hulu during Titanfall, or TV in general. I've setup Hyper-V in a server environment before and it's a very good free type-1 hypervisor. But in the same way I wouldn't recommend under many scenarios putting SQL server on Hyper-V I don't think putting the Xbox OS on it is ideal. Not yet at least. Hypervisors have come a long way over the past few years. In the short term it's a con not a pro. Just a for instance, Xbox OS only gets 5GB of the memory. This see,s incredibly conservative. A slimmed down versions of Windows that only performs one app at a time doesn't need 3GB. It definitely doesn't need that much just to play Netflix. But that's the way it's configured.

I know the improvements are coming. The decisions that were made were just plain bad.

 

I agree with that, the 3GB and other GPU reserve stuff is being conservative, and I think with the June update they've already change that around.  As they optimize things that 3GB is only going to go more down, just shows that this system wasn't done and rushed overall.    I think they can cut that down to 1GB for OS and apps, we have tablets and so on with 1-2GB that run windows and apps fine so I expect the same thing to happen here, just don't know how soon.

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

I agree that they need more new IP but I also think rebooting older IP  counts for something.  They're willing to do so, KI IMO is just the start but let's also be realistic here, every big developer has it's core IP that they're going to use to pump out more sequels and milk the fanbase, it's a sure thing.

 

I mean, Nintendo is the dead give away here, they're the Mario, Zelda, and Metroid company.   Sony has it's stuff, Uncharted, killzone, GT, and maybe one or two more.   EA is well known, Activision and so on.     I see it as this, the companies need these in order to give us new stuff, the sure things make them money which in turn makes them bet on something new.  If those new things pan out then great but I'd say most of the time they don't do well enough.

 

I think QB is going to be good, maybe it's because I'm a big Remedy fan but I loved Alan Wake and I'm betting we will get a 2nd one for the XB1 after QB but the truth is that AW had a slow start, if it was better initially then we'd be talking about AW2 right now and not QB.  In the end this is still a business and with how much game development for AAA titles keeps going up and up these sequel series trend isn't going to stop but it's one side of the coin, those are needed so we can get new things to.

 

I know you need to have your staple IPs, but the problem is they have been MS' staples since they came into this industry (besides Gears). Contrast that with what you said about Sony and they've actually lost quite a few of the old favourites in favour of new IP. Uncharted, LittleBigPlanet, inFamous, Resistance, Motorstorm etc all started life with the PS3. No more Crash Bandicoots or Spyros etc. (Those games are still around but run into the group by other publishers).

 

And as always Nintendo is the odd ball when it comes to IP. I honestly couldn't see them taking a break from Mario or the others. It would be like Disney without Mickey. What they do get right at least is put the charatcer into a lot of different genres and party games. Or at least switch it up between 3D and 2D gameplay quite often in new experiences (Galaxy vs NSMB vs Paper Mario etc.)

 

I'm not saying MS need to stop making the "big 4", but they need to supplement them more with new IP. I still need my Halo fix at the end of the day :p