JFK: Lone gunman or CIA conspiracy?


Who is responsible for JFK's death?  

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Drov

Bottom line is that the one shot hit Kennedy in the upper right section of his head and that bullet then proceeded into the man in front of him. As one stated before, the seat was a jump seat in front of Kennedy so it was directly in front of him yet down and to the left.

I am simply wanting to state this: Lee Harvey was the only gunmen, that has been proven by detailed computer rendered 3d graphics but whether or not Oswald was acting for himself or for someone else has yet to be proven. There are so many things that point to Oswald acting for someone else but then again, you have to take into account that nobody wanted anything to do with this man. Also, he attempted an assasination before the Kennedy one but that one has rarely been talked about.

No matter how much evidence is uncovered, people will always believe what they want!

Edited by SinFny
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danshome
Oswald was supposedly behind him...you don't have to be a genious to figure out that his head should have went forward.

Well you kinda do, because it's not actually possible for a bullet to force a head forward. Take the time to read my explanation on the last page...

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Drov

Long reply but a good one:

Using his 8-millimeter movie camera, Abraham Zapruder recorded the moments when President Kennedy was murdered. The Zapruder film is the only film that recorded the shooting from start to finish. The film itself has been cited as evidence of a conspiracy, and some have claimed it shows that Oswald was not the only gunman.

To advance the analysis of the crime Dale Myers, a computer animator who has been studying the assassination for more than 25 years, generated an exact computer simulation of the Zapruder film.

Myers created a three-dimensional computer model of the plaza, reconstructed exactly the way it was on Nov. 22, 1963, then matched the model with the Zapruder film. The result allowed him to piece together various animated viewpoints of the shooting.

Once he had a three-dimensional match, he was able to create any point of view. Not only was he able to re-create Zapruder's point of view, he could re-create the viewpoint of any eyewitness: on the sniper's nest with the gunman, or on the grassy knoll, or along the motorcade route.

"In addition to that, the accuracy of the computer model would be such that you could then plot trajectories, you could take the wounds, the positions of the figures, you could see where the firing sources were from, or not from," Myers told ABCNEWS.

Single Bullet Theory

Myers' animation has introduced a new way of investigating the Kennedy assassination ? and debunking the conspiracy theories which have flourished over the last 40 years.

Many Americans believe Kennedy and Texas Gov. John Connally were hit by different bullets from separate guns, suggesting a conspiracy of more than one gunman. Myers' simulation, however, proves they were hit from behind by the same bullet.

The animation shows, from the positions of the two men in the car, that any bullet that struck the president in the upper right back and emerged out of his throat, would have continued forward and hit Connally in the back near his right armpit ? exactly where the governor was in fact hit. In addition, the fact that both men reacted at the same time clinches it, said Myers.

"So it's not a magic bullet at all," said Myers. "It's not even a single bullet theory, in my opinion. It's a single bullet fact."

If the two men were hit from behind by the same bullet, where did it come from? Using the men's body positions and the locations of their wounds, Myers isolated the source of the shot.

"We can start with, for instance, Governor Connally's entrance wound on his back, connect that with the point of exit on the president's throat, and then take that line and project it rearward," said Myers. "What we end up with is a line that goes right back through the sniper's nest window, the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository."

Dozens of witnesses pointed to the School Book Depository, where Oswald had been working as a clerk, after hearing the shots. One witness reported seeing a gun in the sixth floor windowWho Was Behind Oswald?

After the shooting, Oswald was the only worker missing from the building. Police arrested Oswald in a nearby movie theater and took him to the Dallas police headquarters, where he was questioned by police, the FBI and the Secret Service throughout the weekend.

A 24-year-old loner, Oswald, was finally in the spotlight, which family members say he craved his entire life. He never confessed to killing the president. On Sunday, Nov. 24, while he was being transferred from police headquarters to the county jail, Oswald was fatally shot by a local club owner, Jack Ruby. 

On the same day the nation mourned for Kennedy as they watched his body being carried through the streets of Washington, Oswald was buried in Texas. His wife Marina, his mother and brother Robert attended the funeral. And on that same day, Ruby, under heavy guard, was transferred to the county jail.

Even though Ruby claimed he wasn't part of a conspiracy, millions of Americans believed he was. Worried about the anxious mood of the country, President Lyndon B. Johnson appointed a commission to investigate the assassination, and asked U.S. Chief Justice Earl Warren to lead it.

"The Warren Commission was created for two main reasons," said Robert Goldberg. "One was to settle the mood in the United States. But there was a second very key reason, and that was to dispel any rumors of foreign intrigue.&quotWarren Commission: He Acted Alone

During its 10-month investigation, the commission interviewed 25,000 people and collected 3,000 pieces of evidence. The panel presented an overwhelming case against Oswald.

Firearms tests showed that the bullets that hit the president could only have come from Oswald's rifle. Oswald's palm print was on the rifle stock and his fingerprints were on boxes found in the sniper's position at the book depository.

The Warren Commission found persuasive evidence that Kennedy and Connally had been hit by the same bullet. It also concluded that Oswald acted alone and there was no evidence of a conspiracy.

But when the commission published its report in September 1964, many Americans simply did not believe it. They accused the commission of rushing to judgment and covering up a conspiracy.

Warren Commission lawyer William Coleman defended the report: "I think the best proof is it's 40 years later, and nobody's come up with any statement of anybody else who did it," he told ABCNEWS.

In the 1970s, Americans' distrust of the government was fueled by the Watergate scandal and the Vietnam War. Under this kind of pressure, in 1976, the House of Representatives created a Select Committee on Assassinations to deal with the conspiracy once and for all.

"We made it our central program to see what might have changed since 1963. What had changed since 1963 are advances in science and technology," recalls G. Robert Blakey, the committee's chief counsel, who directed the investigation.

The committee reviewed all the evidence, and reaffirmed that Kennedy was shot and killed by OswaldCommunist Connection?

With tension stemming from the Cold War, there was fear in the West that Soviet leaders in Moscow were directing a worldwide Communist conspiracy aimed at destroying the free world, including the United States.

The FBI knew that Oswald was a former U.S. Marine who had lived for almost three years in the Soviet Union, and returned to America with a Russian wife. They believed he was a committed Communist. Many Americans believed that Oswald's professed admiration for Cuba's Fidel Castro ? who had established a Communist government allied with the Soviet Union just 100 miles from the United States ? was proof somehow of a Communist conspiracy.

On Sept. 9, 1963, in a widely published interview with The Associated Press, Castro threatened American leaders. "We are prepared to fight and answer in kind," he said. "The United States leaders should think that if they are aiding terrorist plans to eliminate Cuban leaders, they themselves will not be safe."

Committee investigators went to Mexico City to check on allegations that Oswald had met with Cuban agents during a visit in 1963. And in 1978, they went to Havana to interview Castro himself.

"I sat in President Castro's office and, albeit diplomatically, looked at him in his eyes and said, 'Did you kill John Kennedy?,' " said Blakey, who headed the delegation. "And he said no. And then he told me why it would have been a foolish thing for him to have done."

According to Blakey, Castro said it would have been "insanity" for him to attack Kennedy. "That would have been the most perfect pretext for the United States to invade our country, which is what I have tried to prevent for all these years," Blakey says Castro told him.

"We looked as best we could for evidence that he might have done it," Blakey went on, "and we couldn't find it. That doesn't mean he didn't do it. It just means on the basis of the evidence that I have, I don't think that he did."

The committee combed Oswald's life for links to foreign governments. It heard testimony from a KGB officer who had handled Oswald's file when he was in Russia. The officer, Yuri Nosenko, says Oswald had tried to defect when he was in Russia, and the KGB would never have sent such an obvious target for suspicion back to the United States on an assassination mission. "KGB never will go on this because it's so obvious," Nosenko told ABCNEWS. Nosenko testified to the commission after himself defecting to the United States, where he still lives under an assumed name.

The special congressional committee spent two years on its investigation, and near the end was preparing a report saying that the Warren Commission was right: Oswald had been the sole assassin, and no one had conspired with him ? not the CIA, the FBI, the Soviets or the Cubans. But a team of scientists surprised the committee with evidence that appeared to prove a consAcoustic Evidenceidence

Scientists produced a sound recording of the assassination ? overlooked for almost 15 years ? that had been recorded at police headquarters in Dallas from a microphone thought to have belonged to a motorcycle officer who was riding in the motorcade. The recording was noisy, with static, but the scientists said that with special equipment they could identify four gunshots.

To the House committee, this came as a huge shock. Four shots were one more than Oswald had time to fire. "That meant there were two shooters in the plaza," said Blakey, "two shooters in the plaza equal a conspiracy." But by synchronizing seven amateur films including the Zapruder film, Myers found that at the time of the first shot, the motorcycle was on Houston Street, about 170 feet from the position predicted by acoustic scientists, thus disproving the acoustiMob Hit?b>Mob Hit?

Another conspiracy theory links Oswald's killer, Ruby, to the mafia, and suggests that the mafia had conspired to kill Kennedy. "I see Jack Ruby's assassination of Lee Harvey Oswald as a mob hit," Blakey told ABCNEWS.

Attorney General Robert Kennedy, the president's brother, had been leading a major offensive by the federal government against organized crime at the time of the assassination. In April 1961, Carlos Marcello, the mafia boss of New Orleans, was seized and deported to Guatemala. According to Blakey, Marcello became so angry at the Kennedy administration that he conspired to kill the president. Blakey believed Marcello recruited Oswald to shoot the president, and Ruby to make sure that Oswald never talked.

"The theory is Ruby is taking out Oswald so Oswald can't say anything," said Ralph Salerno, who was hired by Blakey to be the committee's mob expert. "Somebody has to take out Ruby so he can't say anything. And then somebody has to take out the guy who took Ruby out. It becomes an unending dilemma so it doesn't work quite that way."

Salerno reviewed, for the committee, the electronic surveillances that the FBI had on organized crime figures all over the country, and there was no indication at all of the involvement in Kennedy's aIn the Mind of Oswald of Oswald

Forty years later, there has not been a single piece of credible evidence to prove a conspiracy.

Robert Dallek, author of An Unfinished Life: John F. Kennedy, says it's inconceivable that a conspiracy could have been kept secret for four decades "given a society like ours, which is so open in so many ways and so porous."

"I know that millions and millions of people in this country believe that there was a conspiracy because, I think, it's very difficult for them to accept the idea that someone as inconsequential as Oswald could have killed someone as consequential as Kennedy," said Dallek.

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whipper25

where'd you get that sinfny? i wanna see that 3d representation

nevermind..found the site..kinda sucks you have to pay for it..i understand it took months of hard work to put it together..but ya know, it could pretty much help in finally putting the matter to rest....i think it would be a great service to the people of the united states, of the world, to release that information for free..but oh well, money is money..

Edited by whipper25
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-=SD=-
To the House committee, this came as a huge shock. Four shots were one more than Oswald had time to fire. "That meant there were two shooters in the plaza," said Blakey, "two shooters in the plaza equal a conspiracy." But by synchronizing seven amateur films including the Zapruder film, Myers found that at the time of the first shot, the motorcycle was on Houston Street, about 170 feet from the position predicted by acoustic scientists, thus disproving the acoustic evidence.

I don't really get that point, maybe you won't be able to hear it but if you record 4 shots you record 4 shots, how was it disproved?

Anyway, I think he didn't do it and unless I can hop in a time machine to witness this shooting, nothing will change my mind about it.

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noir
I don't really get that point, maybe you won't be able to hear it but if you record 4 shots you record 4 shots, how was it disproved?

The recording was extremly low quality with lots of noise, Myers concluded that for the recording to be valid the motorcycle cop had to be in the pink spot, but after tracking the cops movement he saw that it wasn't

post-92-1070900915.jpg

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-=SD=-

I see, thanks for the pic too ;)

I suppose I'm forgetting about the quality of those recorders back then.

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danshome
The recording was extremly low quality with lots of noise, Myers concluded that for the recording to be valid the motorcycle cop had to be in the pink spot, but after tracking the cops movement he saw that it wasn't

Actually, it was the acoustics experts themselves that said in their testimony that their evidence was only valid if the cop was at that exact position. They were told by the police force that he was, but Myers proved that he couldn't have been.

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noir
Actually, it was the acoustics experts themselves that said in their testimony that their evidence was only valid if the cop was at that exact position. They were told by the police force that he was, but Myers proved that he couldn't have been.

Yeah sorry, you're right, Myers did not examine the audio or anything like that he just showed that the recording cop was not in the pink spot.

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nutternutin

Could be wrong, but it seems that everyone saying Oswald did it are wrong, simply because he never admited it and he never made it to trial. Therefore, the case is technically UNSOLVED.

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danshome

I think because the Warren Commission was a judicial review, it may count as solved. But fair point. Either way - I claim nothing other than that all the evidence points towards a shooter in the Book Depository (which everyone seems to be more than happy to admit was Oswald) and not a shred of evidence points anywhere else.

If I was trying to defend a conspiracy theory, I'd probably attack that as the only bit of evidence that can't be proved conclusively - that Oswald wasn't the shooter in the book depository. Nobody saw him take the shot(s), so it is only a supposition supported by forensic evidence - every other part of the shooting can be proven scientifically in one manner or another. Of course, the balance of probability says that it was Oswald and there's still no reason to doubt that and not a shred of contradictory evidence to say that there is anything wrong with the forensics. So as the evidence stands, Oswald is the shooter.

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SimplyPotatoes

you people need to watch tv more, dave chapell already said the answer to this during one of his shows..it was a magic bullet, magic has existed forever...

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ANova

The assassination was carried out with cooperation between the CIA and various oil tycoons. The mob was also rumoured to be in on it.

The magic bullet theory is full of bs and has been proven to be impossible many times. Oswald was their scapegoat. The fact that he was killed before even getting a chance to go to court screams foul play.

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danshome

Possibly. But that line of argument only works if you don't know who killed Oswald. Think about it this way - Oswald is hired by some group that dislike Kennedy (for argument's sake, let's say it's the Mob). The Mob decide that they don't want Oswald talking afterwards, so they get Jack Ruby to kill him before he can give them away...

Problem #1 - by not killing Oswald as soon as he's taken the shots, the Mob have given the Police time to catch and interrogate Oswald. Already there's the potential for him to talk.

But perhaps they've made this decision well after the fact - Oswald's been caught and only now do they decide he's a liability. So enter Ruby. Ruby shoots Oswald. Ruby is caught on the spot.

Problem #2 - what is there to stop Ruby talking?

Answer - nothing. It's a non-sensical move, since you have a) left yourself just as open as before to interrogation and b) opened up the possibility of an accomplice/conspiracy.

You've got to figure that such an unprofessional hit has got to be one amateur on his own and not the work of a professional because there are a whole world of other options infinitely less risky and that actually have the desired effect, rather than just leaving another person to interrogate...

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Ayepecks

From everything I've seen on it, even ones where they don't even mention conspiracy theories, it seems that it wasn't Oswald at all.

If you haven't seen "The Men Who Killed Kennedy" on the History Channel, you really need to.

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dior_addict
If you fire a bullet into a head, ignoring all the extraneous things such as involuntary body movement and the like, the head will move TOWARDS the bullet not away from it.

Think about it simply - the point at which the bullet impacts the skull is extremely small. To physically move the head, the force of impact would have to be enormous and in transferring the kinetic energy from the bullet to the head, the bullet would lose a large part of its forward momentum. Put simply, bullets aren't designed to do this - they're designed to penetrate.

Most types of rifle bullets are designed to penetrate directly through the body and exit the other side (not all - some bullets are designed to "explode" inside the body, but they have a very distinctive - and messy - effect). When a bullet is shot through the head and comes out the other side, it is still moving at a fairly high velocity and transmits almost no energy to the skull (as above). On the other hand, it DOES "pull" brain matter with it, which is forced out as a jet from the exit wound. This jet can force the head to move and, because it comes from the exit wound, the head will move towards the bullet, not away from it.

Of course there are a number of factors that effect things - involuntary body movement from the distruction of nerve tissue, break-up of the cranium, etc. However in the abscence of mitigating factors, the head should move towards the bullet - the opposite of the normal assumption.

If you're particularly bored, happen to have a rifle a large quantity of melons and some packing tape, give it a go yourself. Wrap the melons in tape (to hold them together and create a "skull"), stand them a reasonable distance away and try and shoot them. They will, almost without exception, move towards the gun. For a great demonstration of this, check out Penn And Teller's "Playing With Food" book (great fun!). It is considered bad taste to have a second melon in a pink pillbox hat. :D

Well written. I understand now. :)

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mattmatik

Someone explain to me, then, why the Secret Service agents jogging on both sides of the presidential car were suddenly told to stop running with the car right before it made the turn? It's clear as day on video, the one Agent throws his hands in the air in disgust and confusion.

Also, within hours of the shooting, how did the authorities come to the conclusion it was Oswald? You have got to be kidding me. If that is how our judicial system works, guilty until proven innocent, then screw it, I'm moving to Canada.

And last but not least, explain to me the picture of Kennedy's autopsy photo and the hole in his neck. You say Oswald hit the back of the head, forcing his head BACKWARD, then the bullet went down and hit Connelly. WHY IS KENNEDY's HEAD NOT SPLIT OPEN? And where the hell did the hole in the neck come from?

It all goes back to my point: even if Oswald DID shoot the gun, many other people were involved in a cover-up. And all it takes is for one other person to take part in it to be considered a conspiracy. But, still, there's no way in my mind that he did this all on his own accord.

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mattmatik

Oh yeah, forgot to add:

The only reason the cops even WENT to the theater that day was because they got a call from a theater manager complaining of a man causing a raucus. If that manager had never called the cops, they never would have found Oswald in that theater.

I think what everyone forgets is not the shooting itself, or the method by which it happened, but everything else surrounding the event. As seen in my previous post, there are numerous inconsistencies to say "It was Oswald." A lawyer's only need in court is to prove doubt.

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whipper25

i think jfkfiles.com and reading the secrets of a homocide (with the 3d graphics) is a good and thorough read about the events of the shooting and the proof of a lone gunman..it will explain the 3 shots, the 'magic bullet' theory, and the corresponging wounds

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danshome
Also, within hours of the shooting, how did the authorities come to the conclusion it was Oswald? You have got to be kidding me. If that is how our judicial system works, guilty until proven innocent, then screw it, I'm moving to Canada.

And last but not least, explain to me the picture of Kennedy's autopsy photo and the hole in his neck. You say Oswald hit the back of the head, forcing his head BACKWARD, then the bullet went down and hit Connelly. WHY IS KENNEDY's HEAD NOT SPLIT OPEN? And where the hell did the hole in the neck come from?

Well, for one, he was the only member of staff that was suspiciously missing! You investigate the suspicious people first, not hte ones wondering around aimlessly. And when the forensics turn out to agree, you've got the right guy.

And Kennedy's head is not split open, because (as I have said endlessly today), the bullet was not designed to split his head open - it's designed to pass straight through (in order to cause damage to as many targets as possible). You'd need an entirely different type of bullet to get his head to explode and nothing on earth would make it cleave open like you're imagining. If the shot comes from above and hits the top of the skull, the bullet will exit down towards the neck - it came from above, not directly behind, remember.

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noir
Also, within hours of the shooting, how did the authorities come to the conclusion it was Oswald?

Oswald also gunned down a cop shortly after, there were two squads, one looking for the cop-killer and one looking for the presidents murderer, they didn't know they searched for the same man. From the location he shot the cop they tracked him to the movie theather.

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mattmatik
Well, for one, he was the only member of staff that was suspiciously missing! You investigate the suspicious people first, not hte ones wondering around aimlessly. And when the forensics turn out to agree, you've got the right guy.

And Kennedy's head is not split open, because (as I have said endlessly today), the bullet was not designed to split his head open - it's designed to pass straight through (in order to cause damage to as many targets as possible). You'd need an entirely different type of bullet to get his head to explode and nothing on earth would make it cleave open like you're imagining. If the shot comes from above  and hits the top of the skull, the bullet will exit down towards the neck - it came from above, not directly behind, remember.

Maybe I'm just imagining then...but everytime I see the shot hit the head, especially extremely close up, I see the right side of his head just flap and seperate from the middle of his head. So, it does look as if his head split open.

And again, I can also sit here and say because Lee Harvey Oswald shot that cop, and the force was already looking for him, then they just used him because they were ****ed he shot the cop. They never did tell Oswald what they arrested him for, as you can hear and see in his numerous interviews after his arrest. I wonder if they ever even read him his rights?

And I still, I'll say it again, do not feel comfortable with Secret Service agents being called OFF a post during a freaking public exposition. So, again, Oswald didn't act alone. He may have shot the gun (I still think it was someone closer to the convoy, haha), but there's an awful lot of other people involved in this and who knew about it. Face it...Oswald the shooter or not, it was a conspiracy. Lyndon B. Johnson, J. Edgar Hoover, the Mob, various Government officials, Secret Service, NSA, FBI/CIA...and all the numerous little patsys that followed.

edit: Wouldn't you, if you were an investigator, say EVERYONE was a suspect? If you walk around aimlessly, that's suspicious to me.

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danshome
And I still, I'll say it again, do not feel comfortable with Secret Service agents being called OFF a post during a freaking public exposition. So, again, Oswald didn't act alone. He may have shot the gun (I still think it was someone closer to the convoy, haha), but there's an awful lot of other people involved in this and who knew about it. Face it...Oswald the shooter or not, it was a conspiracy. Lyndon B. Johnson, J. Edgar Hoover, the Mob, various Government officials, Secret Service, NSA, FBI/CIA...and all the numerous little patsys that followed.

edit: Wouldn't you, if you were an investigator, say EVERYONE was a suspect? If you walk around aimlessly, that's suspicious to me.

Sure - I don't blame you for not feeling comfortable. It's not a sensible thing to do. On the other hand, it IS the sort of thing that politicians like to do to show that they're still one of The People and not some high-and-mighty king. Alternatively, there may be a whole host of other explanations for having the Secret Service move away other than a conspiracy - some of which may be infinitely more plausible.

It doesn't matter really - there's absolutely no evidence (and that's ZERO evidence) to suggest that anyone else was involved. There is no evidence of a conspiracy and, apart from paranoia, no reason to assume Johnson, Hoover, the Mafia, the Secret Service or any other agency would be involved.

Slightly more to the point - why on earth would the NSA have any part of Kennedy's death. The agency is solely concerned with cryptography and electronic intelligence and doesn't even remotely concern itself with the sort of stuff that Hollywood claims. It's almost like saying the phone companies were in on it...

And yes, if I was an investigator I would be suspicious of everyone. But I'd be far more suspicious of the person that's gone missing without any explanation that of the ones I can find and ask questions to. Everyone's a suspect, but some are just far more obviously suspect than others.

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