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NASA Orion crew exploration vehicle (updates)

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bguy_1986    354
On 4/1/2019 at 10:08 PM, DocM said:

NASA Admin. Bridenstine talking about Falcon Heavy + Orion, Falcon Heavy + ICPS + Orion, etc. Plays at 29m 54s.

 

 

 

Are they still ignoring Starship?  lol

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DocM    16,438
3 hours ago, bguy_1986 said:

Are they still ignoring Starship?  lol

Yes, for now. Once Starship stats high altitude tests that gets a LOT harder.

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IsItPluggedIn    1,684

Hey Guys,

 

What functionality does the Orion provide over Dragon/Starliner?

 

I know dragon is half the weight, I just dont know what the Orion does that is worth the extra weight.

 

 

 

 

If they used dragon and the ESA service module, would the falcon heavy have enough thrust, with the extra 10% with the block 5.

 

 

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DocM    16,438
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, IsItPluggedIn said:

Hey Guys,

 

What functionality does the Orion provide over Dragon/Starliner?

 

A full service module (propulsion, consumables stores, more batteries etc.) Not that SpaceX couldn't build one on a pallet to fit inside the Trunk and add lines to the Dragon Claw umbilical. That and some high density polyethylene radiation shielding. Yes, HDPE is a rather good shield. Extra points if you add about 5% elemental boron to shield neutrons.

 

Essentially enough to take the mission life with a crew from a few days to Orion's 21.1 days

 

Quote

 

I know dragon is half the weight, I just dont know what the Orion does that is worth the extra weight.

 

Mission life with a crew aboard and a bit more radiation shielding. See above.

 

Quote

If they used dragon and the ESA service module, would the falcon heavy have enough thrust, with the extra 10% with the block 5.

 

FH could launch a Crew Dragon and crew on a lunar free return trajectory, a loop-around, and not have mission life issues. Maybe add some HDPE for shielding, but it's not that heavy.  This would have been the Grey Moon mission which was replaced by #blueMoon using Starship.

 

Add the aforementioned service module pallet to the Trunk and who needs Orion - or SLS? (but that's politically incorrect in Florida, Alabama, Colorado or Chicago [Boeing's home base])

Edited by DocM
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Unobscured Vision    2,658

All of the above, which SpaceX won't need to bother with at all since Starship is able to carry 100 people + a modest 100 metric tonnes of cargo to Mars ... so figure another 50 metric tonnes of mass saved for the moon (since they won't have to carry all of the extra consumables for the long Martian mission).

 

More than doable for a Lunar mission on Starship. That's why Crew Dragon won't need to do it. It's a mission slated for Starship; in fact, already paid for. One of the first ones will be doing a once-around.

 

Orion is not needed in any context. At the time it was ordered, yes. Now, no.

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DocM    16,438

Crew/Cargo Dragon may end up being used for the Gateway station under CLPS etc., But Starship would be insane for that mission.

 

First, it's several times larger than the Gateway, making the optics look bad for NASA. 

 

Second, who would be docked to who? Again, way too large for the mission.

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bguy_1986    354
Posted (edited)
On 4/4/2019 at 8:27 AM, bguy_1986 said:

Are they still ignoring Starship?  lol

On 4/4/2019 at 12:12 PM, DocM said:

Yes, for now. Once Starship stats high altitude tests that gets a LOT harder.

NASA has finally acknowledged Starship!  lol

 

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DocM    16,438
Posted (edited)

Potential mission managers and line engineers see the handwriting on the wall long before upper management suits, and with the pics & hops at Boca Chica Twitter has cranked up the volume to 11.

Edited by DocM
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DocM    16,438

 

The Office of Management and Budget is prepping a budget amendment for submission to Congress  - appropriations for "Moon 2024."

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DocM    16,438

 

Commercial rocket = Falcon Heavy

 

AA = Associate Administrator, Human Exploration and Operations Mission Directorate - aka HEOMD

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IsItPluggedIn    1,684

Wasnt the issue that Orion was too heavy for FH/DIVH to send direct, it would need to dock with a second stage in orbit and the Orion doesnt have the ability to do the docking?

 

Do we have any more information about how they would get around the issue, are they bringing the docking functionality forward?

 

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DocM    16,438
2 hours ago, IsItPluggedIn said:

Wasnt the issue that Orion was too heavy for FH/DIVH to send direct, it would need to dock with a second stage in orbit and the Orion doesnt have the ability to do the docking?

 

Dock in orbit with an SLS ICPS upper stage, separately launched.

 

AKA: Distributed Launch

 

Quote

 

Do we have any more information about how they would get around the issue, are they bringing the docking functionality forward?

 

NASA Admin. Bridenstine said flat out the only vehicle-side docking system the US has with a flight history is SpaceX's version of the International Docking Adapter, so ICPS would need to use "IDA-X" to dock with Orion.  "IDA-X" is also simpler and cheaper than Boeing's unit.

 

Boeing developed IDA, it is used on ISS and Orion, and SpaceX's version has docked with it (Crew Dragon DM-1).

Edited by DocM

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