us Target asks its customers to kindly not shop while armed with guns

[xrobwx71]

What I meant is that I don't walk around in a state of fear all the time, but you are correct that it all stems from a fear of something that people take any precaution at all. I still maintain that I do not have a hero complex and I don't feel macho or something like that because I choose to carry a concealed weapon. Honestly, I don't even think about it most of the time, it's just something that I have on me along with my cell phone and wallet.

 

It's the same in America, most people aren't afraid for their safety on a constant basis. It's just that you don't know what is going to happen to you at any time in the future and some of us would rather be prepared for that then not.

You made me laugh there, thank you for that. There is a difference between a natural fear of the unknown and walking around in a constant state of fear like Theon Greyjoy.

Man, you are wasting your time. You are arguing with people who act like they are experts on psychology but probably have never cracked a book with the letters psych on it or in it  their entire life (which is probably young if you asked).

[blank]

Apologies if someone has already answered something similar but I'm too lazy to read the entire 9 pages :p

 

Can I ask why someone would want to carry a gun of this size around? I understand the cultural differences regarding owning a gun etc that us in the UK don't have, but I don't understand why people would WANT to walk around a store carrying something like that? I get annoyed just carrying shopping!

 

I don't want any of the "because I can, its my consitutional right too" type answers because I'm sorry but that's not a reason to do it. It's an excuse that allows you to do it. I COULD walk into a store with my clothes on backwards, its not illegal in anyway but I don't because there is just no need to. I will probably get this completely wrong, but I thought the whole weapons thing was about defending yourself, is America such a dangerous place that you cannot go to a store like Target without carrying a weapon? I have to admit when I spent 5 weeks in North Carolina, I did not feel unsafe at any point. At the very least, could people not just leave whatever weapon they are carryingin the car or something?

At some point someone needs to stand up and say, just because it is your legal right to do something, does not mean you have to exercise every occasion to practice that right.

for attention, and to feel special. Feel manly. Compensation.

They'll say this isnt the case, but how many of them have admitted in this topic of feeling insecure, and terrified of the world around them.

Yes, please let these paranoid people have killing machines.

[xrobwx71]

Apologies if someone has already answered something similar but I'm too lazy to read the entire 9 pages :p

 

Can I ask why someone would want to carry a gun of this size around? I understand the cultural differences regarding owning a gun etc that us in the UK don't have, but I don't understand why people would WANT to walk around a store carrying something like that? I get annoyed just carrying shopping!

 

I don't want any of the "because I can, its my consitutional right too" type answers because I'm sorry but that's not a reason to do it. It's an excuse that allows you to do it. I COULD walk into a store with my clothes on backwards, its not illegal in anyway but I don't because there is just no need to. I will probably get this completely wrong, but I thought the whole weapons thing was about defending yourself, is America such a dangerous place that you cannot go to a store like Target without carrying a weapon? I have to admit when I spent 5 weeks in North Carolina, I did not feel unsafe at any point. At the very least, could people not just leave whatever weapon they are carryingin the car or something?

At some point someone needs to stand up and say, just because it is your legal right to do something, does not mean you have to exercise every occasion to practice that right. 

It's just like with the motorcycle helmet laws in the US (Florida). Although time and time again a helmet has been shown to save lives but the law says you don't have to wear one so people do not wear one.On the other side however it is against the law to not wear a seatbelt in a car/truck/van. How backwards is that? 

[Stokkolm]

Apologies if someone has already answered something similar but I'm too lazy to read the entire 9 pages :p

 

Can I ask why someone would want to carry a gun of this size around? I understand the cultural differences regarding owning a gun etc that us in the UK don't have, but I don't understand why people would WANT to walk around a store carrying something like that? I get annoyed just carrying shopping!

 

I don't want any of the "because I can, its my consitutional right too" type answers because I'm sorry but that's not a reason to do it. It's an excuse that allows you to do it. I COULD walk into a store with my clothes on backwards, its not illegal in anyway but I don't because there is just no need to. I will probably get this completely wrong, but I thought the whole weapons thing was about defending yourself, is America such a dangerous place that you cannot go to a store like Target without carrying a weapon? I have to admit when I spent 5 weeks in North Carolina, I did not feel unsafe at any point. At the very least, could people not just leave whatever weapon they are carryingin the car or something?

At some point someone needs to stand up and say, just because it is your legal right to do something, does not mean you have to exercise every occasion to practice that right. 

There is absolutely no need to carry a rifle around anywhere other than the woods when you're hunting. These people are just doing it because they want to make a spectacle out of it, I will admit that. And frankly, what they're doing is causing more harm than good for those of us who actually care about advancing our rights. I just hate when people use something like this as an excuse to say that nobody needs walk around with any guns ever. If I want to carry my Glock 19 in my IWB (inside-the-waistband) holster where nobody ever notices it....ever, then I should be able to do that regardless of anyone else's feelings on the issue.

[xrobwx71]

There is absolutely no need to carry a rifle around anywhere other than the woods when you're hunting. These people are just doing it because they want to make a spectacle out of it, I will admit that. And frankly, what they're doing is causing more harm than good for those of us who actually care about advancing our rights. I just hate when people use something like this as an excuse to say that nobody needs walk around with any guns ever. If I want to carry my Glock 19 in my IWB (inside-the-waistband) holster where nobody ever notices it....ever, then I should be able to do that regardless of anyone else's feelings on the issue.

Be careful, the armchair psychiatrists will start passing out valid mental diagnosis and prognosis again.

[FloatingFatMan]

There is absolutely no need to carry a rifle around anywhere other than the woods when you're hunting. These people are just doing it because they want to make a spectacle out of it, I will admit that. And frankly, what they're doing is causing more harm than good for those of us who actually care about advancing our rights. I just hate when people use something like this as an excuse to say that nobody needs walk around with any guns ever. If I want to carry my Glock 19 in my IWB (inside-the-waistband) holster where nobody ever notices it....ever, then I should be able to do that regardless of anyone else's feelings on the issue.

 

There's rather a lot of difference between an unobtrusive side-arm kept in a holster, and a brainless ###### brandishing a pump action shotgun and a loaded AR-15 in the middle of the street.

[Stokkolm]

There's rather a lot of difference between an unobtrusive side-arm kept in a holster, and a brainless ###### brandishing a pump action shotgun and a loaded AR-15 in the middle of the street.

That was pretty much the point of my post.

[nekkidtruth]

Be careful, the armchair psychiatrists will start passing out valid mental diagnosis and prognosis again.

 

Someone has to be the voice of reason.  It might as well be us "armchair psychiatrists".  Let me ask a serious question or two...(Ah screw it, make it multiple questions)

 

How many massacres have been prevented due to someone carrying a gun, compared to the number of massacres caused by guns?

 

How many times has someone carrying prevented a child from death, compared to the number of child deaths caused by guns?

 

How many rapes never happened because someone was carrying, compared to the number of rapes at gunpoint?

 

How many bank robberies have been thwarted because a civilian was carrying, compared to the number of robberies at gun point?

 

I could go on...

[xrobwx71]

Someone has to be the voice of reason.  It might as well be us "armchair psychiatrists".  Let me ask a serious question or two...(Ah screw it, make it multiple questions)

 

How many massacres have been prevented due to someone carrying a gun, compared to the number of massacres caused by guns?

 

How many times has someone carrying prevented a child from death, compared to the number of child deaths caused by guns?

 

How many rapes never happened because someone was carrying, compared to the number of rapes at gunpoint?

 

How many bank robberies have been thwarted because a civilian was carrying, compared to the number of robberies at gun point?

 

I could go on...

 

 I have some questions for you. Had one of the teachers had a firearm at Newtown, could that massacre been averted?

If we didn't have all these "gun free" zones then perhaps the numbers you ask for above might be closer?

Have you noticed that a lot of these instances you mention happen in Gun free zones or cities? No you probably haven't because you ignore what you don't choose to feel or believe in. You think you opinion is the only one that is correct or matters. That being said, I'm sure your a nice enough person and I don't feel any ill will toward you in the least. I just find it funny that people on the internet give out diagnosis on subjects they have no training or expertise in. Even a real, Doctor with many years of training could not and would not diagnose over the internet in a forum conversation.

[nekkidtruth]

 I have some questions for you. Had one of the teachers had a firearm at Newtown, could that massacre been averted?

If we didn't have all these "gun free" zones then perhaps the numbers you ask for above might be closer?

Have you noticed that a lot of these instances you mention happen in Gun free zones or cities? No you probably haven't because you ignore what you don't choose to feel or believe in. You think you opinion is the only one that is correct or matters. That being said, I'm sure your a nice enough person and I don't feel any ill will toward you in the least. I just find it funny that people on the internet give out diagnosis on subjects they have no training or expertise in. Even a real, Doctor with many years of training could not and would not diagnose over the internet in a forum conversation.

 

So you're not going to answer the questions?

 

Regardless, these "gun free zones" exist around the world yet, there doesn't seem to be such an incredibly high amount of issues as in the U.S.  Why is that?  Or are you going to dodge this question as well?

 

I don't choose to ignore anything.  I choose to live in reality, not some made up video game in my mind where by some miracle I'm going to save the day because I'm carrying a gun to the grocery store or to the bank or to the movie theater.

[xrobwx71]

So you're not going to answer the questions?

 

Regardless, these "gun free zones" exist around the world yet, there doesn't seem to be such an incredibly high amount of issues as in the U.S.  Why is that?  Or are you going to dodge this question as well?

 

I don't choose to ignore anything.  I choose to live in reality, not some made up video game in my mind where by some miracle I'm going to save the day because I'm carrying a gun to the grocery store or to the bank or to the movie theater.

There you go again making assumptions about people you know absolutely nothing about. Man you are the greatest!

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=719546098076742

[HawkMan]

 I have some questions for you. Had one of the teachers had a firearm at Newtown, could that massacre been averted?

 

probably not. it's more likely the teacher would have panicked and injured other children. But the most likely scenario, the teacher unlike the shooters isn't prepared and ready to shoot people. while the teacher tries to aim and muster up the courage to fire, the shooters simply pull the trigger and shoot. then they have an extra gun. 

 

Arming teachers and having lots of guns in untrained and unprepared people without the mindset to shoot and kill other people isn't a magic bullet.

 

heck even when they are trained it isn't, look at military base shootings. 

[HawkMan]

 

There you go again making assumptions about people you know absolutely nothing about. Man you are the greatest!

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=719546098076742

 

 

One situation that worked out. and lets ignore all the ones where so called heroes lead to their own and others death. had this been hardened experienced criminals instead of wannabe touch guy kids this would have unfolded a lot differently, and old man very likely wouldn't haven't been the only death. never mind the fact that old man fired his gun towards and past other patrons. in other words, had it been a cop he would have lost his badge and gun for that. 

[hagjohn]

Even the police, who are trained to fire weapons, hit innocent people. Imagine some Joe the "Plumber" idiot with no training. Yeah, I feel safer already...   :s

[hagjohn]

Gay people don't kill people by wanting to get married! These gun nuts have a much higher chance at killing somebody

 

Themselves, most of the time, or their kids shoot themselves or someone else because they didn't lock up the gun properly.

Depends on where you are. In the near rural suburbs and rural areas seeing someone with a rifle, shotgun or wearing an openly visible sidearm wouldn't even raise an eyebrow - especially during hunting season. You run into town for lunch or whatever and no one cares.

As for concealed carry, done right no one notices either. If stores don't have the conviction to put up a firearms free zone sign don't make an issue of it as that'll just attract the demonstrators. Or maybe that's what they want so they can make a political issue of it?

 

Lived in a rural area almost all my life. You see people with guns in their vehicles but never in a store or restaurant, that I've ever seen.

[nekkidtruth]

 

There you go again making assumptions about people you know absolutely nothing about. Man you are the greatest!

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=719546098076742

 

 

No assumptions.  Reality my friend.  I can't decide which is worse, the fact that you once again ignored/dodged my question again (although not surprised), or the fact that you tried to pass of a video from 2012 of an alleged "massacre" attempt that looked like nothing more than a robbery attempt.  Massacre...give me a break.  Is this all you have?

[Wyn6]

 I have some questions for you. Had one of the teachers had a firearm at Newtown, could that massacre been averted?

If we didn't have all these "gun free" zones then perhaps the numbers you ask for above might be closer?

Have you noticed that a lot of these instances you mention happen in Gun free zones or cities? No you probably haven't because you ignore what you don't choose to feel or believe in. You think you opinion is the only one that is correct or matters. That being said, I'm sure your a nice enough person and I don't feel any ill will toward you in the least. I just find it funny that people on the internet give out diagnosis on subjects they have no training or expertise in. Even a real, Doctor with many years of training could not and would not diagnose over the internet in a forum conversation.

- Perhaps, it COULD have been prevented. But, perhaps it would have ended like the armed citizen in Vegas who was shot to death by Amanda Miller as he attempted to stop Jerad Miller. This sort of outcome is just as likely, if not more so, as some teacher being a hero by shooting and killing the gunman.

 

- There is no definitive correlation between gun free zones and mass shootings.

 

- Which instances happened in gun free zones? Okay... school shootings. What other ones? Of the five most recent mass shootings (3 or more dead), which have occurred in gun free zones?

 

Look... I'm a gun enthusiast. I really am. But, these same old, tired, illogical arguments from gun enthusiasts and/or nuts, fail on so many levels. I know. I used to make the exact same arguments. I went to a gun show here in Fort Worth about two weeks ago. I haven't been to a gun show in awhile. But, my wife got tickets off of Groupon of all places. She thought, since I was looking for another gun for my mom, it would be cool to go and see what the various dealers and sellers had. I didn't buy any guns, by the way. But, I did buy some really good jerky products.

 

Anyway, walking through the aisles and checking out the various assorted tables and booths, I have to admit, that some of these people scared me. There was a lot of far right propaganda, pandering to the Obama haters, and NRA'ing that you hear on these very boards. I'm not saying anything's inherently wrong with those things, unless taken to extremes of course. But, I can honestly say, these are people I wouldn't want to be around while they're in possession of firearms.

 

Even as a gun enthusiast, it's hard for me to fall in line with and/or share the same values, for lack of a better word, as some of these people. Note I said, some. As an aside, a woman was accidentally shot by a dealer at a gun show not too long ago.

 

What I'm saying is, I can't sit here and see what's happening in this country and vehemently defend gun rights like some of you. I refuse to make the "gun legislation/restriction doesn't work," argument. Or, go along with the, arm college students and teachers and everybody, school of thought. I cannot in good conscience shout down solid ideas that have a strong chance of making our country a safer place to live. In all honesty, it makes no sense at all what some of you are saying and have said before.

 

You balk at any and everything that is aimed at tempering your "right" to purchase and own as many firearms, as many high capacity mags, and as much ammo as the factories can produce. This includes, better checks on the mentally ill, a national gun registry, more stringent training and testing for those seeking to own firearms, storage laws, licensing firearm owners along with concealed carry holders, renewal of said licenses, insurance and so on.

 

In truth, I'm for any and all of those things and more if need be. Will this be something that will be immediately effective? No. This is something that is long term effective. To see the effects of this type of legislation would take years. Decades, maybe. But, in end, does it make our country a safer place? If the answer is even a maybe, it should be done. Most, if not all, non-firearms related businesses banning guns on their premises, is a start.

 

Edit: Just thought of something ironic. You can't even carry open or concealed into a gun show. At least not in the great gun state of Texas. Damn, I should've take a picture of that sign.

[Shiranui]

Maybe Target should consider changing their name (and logo)...

[Rippleman]

 I have some questions for you. 

why not answer the questions?

[Torolol]

nah, even The White House do not want their area became a 'gun-free zone'.

 

 

 

?Those same politicians and their families are currently under the protection of armed Secret Service agents.

If Gun Free Zones are sufficient protection for our children,

then Gun Free Zones should be good enough for politicians.?

 

perhaps those Powers-That-Be who insist placing gun free zones around the school or other areas, knew too well that the same measures can't ensure their family safety.

[BottleTop]

I'm in S.E. Arizona. We see guns everyday, everywhere you go. I feel safer than I do in the cities where I know only bad guys have guns. In the city of Tombstone, for example, there are way more people carrying than not. NO GUN CRIME. More people are killed by drunk drivers in the U.S. than by guns. Maybe we should leave our cars at home... :D

[Vykranth]

- Perhaps, it COULD have been prevented. But, perhaps it would have ended like the armed citizen in Vegas who was shot to death by Amanda Miller as he attempted to stop Jerad Miller. This sort of outcome is just as likely, if not more so, as some teacher being a hero by shooting and killing the gunman.

 

- There is no definitive correlation between gun free zones and mass shootings.

 

- Which instances happened in gun free zones? Okay... school shootings. What other ones? Of the five most recent mass shootings (3 or more dead), which have occurred in gun free zones?

Look... I'm a gun enthusiast. I really am. But, these same old, tired, illogical arguments from gun enthusiasts and/or nuts, fail on so many levels. I know. I used to make the exact same arguments. I went to a gun show here in Fort Worth about two weeks ago. I haven't been to a gun show in awhile. But, my wife got tickets off of Groupon of all places. She thought, since I was looking for another gun for my mom, it would be cool to go and see what the various dealers and sellers had. I didn't buy any guns, by the way. But, I did buy some really good jerky products.

 

Anyway, walking through the aisles and checking out the various assorted tables and booths, I have to admit, that some of these people scared me. There was a lot of far right propaganda, pandering to the Obama haters, and NRA'ing that you hear on these very boards. I'm not saying anything's inherently wrong with those things, unless taken to extremes of course. But, I can honestly say, these are people I wouldn't want to be around while they're in possession of firearms.

 

Even as a gun enthusiast, it's hard for me to fall in line with and/or share the same values, for lack of a better word, as some of these people. Note I said, some. As an aside, a woman was accidentally shot by a dealer at a gun show not too long ago.

 

What I'm saying is, I can't sit here and see what's happening in this country and vehemently defend gun rights like some of you. I refuse to make the "gun legislation/restriction doesn't work," argument. Or, go along with the, arm college students and teachers and everybody, school of thought. I cannot in good conscience shout down solid ideas that have a strong chance of making our country a safer place to live. In all honesty, it makes no sense at all what some of you are saying and have said before.

 

You balk at any and everything that is aimed at tempering your "right" to purchase and own as many firearms, as many high capacity mags, and as much ammo as the factories can produce. This includes, better checks on the mentally ill, a national gun registry, more stringent training and testing for those seeking to own firearms, storage laws, licensing firearm owners along with concealed carry holders, renewal of said licenses, insurance and so on.

 

In truth, I'm for any and all of those things and more if need be. Will this be something that will be immediately effective? No. This is something that is long term effective. To see the effects of this type of legislation would take years. Decades, maybe. But, in end, does it make our country a safer place? If the answer is even a maybe, it should be done. Most, if not all, non-firearms related businesses banning guns on their premises, is a start.

 

Edit: Just thought of something ironic. You can't even carry open or concealed into a gun show. At least not in the great gun state of Texas. Damn, I should've take a picture of that sign.

Such reasonableness is so rare and heartwarming.

nah, even The White House do not want their area became a 'gun-free zone'.

perhaps those Powers-That-Be who insist placing gun free zones around the school or other areas, knew too well that the same measures can't ensure their family safety.

Ronald Reagan, Gabrielle Giffords ...

Some political figures are threatened on a daily basis ... Sometimes, some idiots decide to go beyond threats.

Look at some examples: these are campaign ads

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTjkgE6OTGY

Don't you think this is really immature and just adding fuel to bonfire and that some paranoid dellusional idiot who listens to this ads would not want to go beyond words?

[Wyn6]

I'm in S.E. Arizona. We see guns everyday, everywhere you go. I feel safer than I do in the cities where I know only bad guys have guns. In the city of Tombstone, for example, there are way more people carrying than not. NO GUN CRIME. More people are killed by drunk drivers in the U.S. than by guns. Maybe we should leave our cars at home... :D

Yes. It's the "ban cars too" argument again. You're right. Automobiles kill more people than firearms in the U.S. But, there are some inherent flaws in your argument. Actually, it's not YOUR argument. This particular contention has been bandied about for as long as people have been saying we tighter restrictions and/or bans on firearms. First, a few factual differences between both cars and guns.

 

1. Cars were created and designed as a mode of transportation. Death by automobile is a byproduct of inattentiveness, speed, volume (vehicles on the road, number of people carried), proximity, happenstance, negligence, and yes, impairment due to age, alcohol, and/or narcotics. There are around 270 million registered vehicles in the U.S. Note the term "registered".

 

2. A vehicle, as a matter of course, is not purchased, or acquired (gifted, stolen) to directly inflict harm upon a living creature.

 

3. Firearms were created and designed as a weapon. Death by firearm is a byproduct of inattentiveness, inadequate or a lack of proper training, negligence, impairment due to age, happenstance, alcohol, and/or narcotics, but above all else, deliberate action (suicide, homicide). There are an estimated 300 million guns in the U.S. But, since registering firearms is currently prohibited by law, we can never truly know. 

 

4. A firearm, as a matter of course, and with few exceptions, is purchased, or acquired (gifted, stolen) to directly inflict harm upon a living creature.

 

Now, a clear picture emerges. At first glance, this looks like an in-favor of guns in the "ban cars too" argument. There's less cars than there are guns, but more people die from automobiles than cars. Guns 1. Cars 0, right? Not so fast.

 

Remember when I used the word registered? Well, that means that there are 260 to 270 million documented vehicles on the road, give or take. Vehicles are used by a vast majority of the population. They are used in close proximity to the vast majority of the population as well. This means, it's reasonable to assume that more of the population comes in contact with or near a vehicle every single day. Often times vehicles carry multiple passengers and go near cyclists, motorcyclists, pedestrians, and other cars on a very frequent basis. So, citing the reasons I stated above as to why people are killed by automobiles, it's simply a product of logic to conclude, putting it altogether, that more people will die as a result.

 

On the other hand, those 300 million guns are not being carried around by 300 million people every day, therefore not coming in contact with, or near another person every single day. And, unlike cars which carry multiple passengers, a gun owner that carries, usually only carries a single firearm. So, by that logic we can reasonably conclude that less people, overall, would be killed by firearms. That's a long-winded way of again saying, you're right. It's simple deductive reasoning.

 

However, if the same sorts of restrictions and laws that are applied to cars were also applied to firearms, I'd be willing to bet firearm deaths would go down even further. And, we can all agree that less death overall is better for everyone. And, hey... since you're so keen on comparing the two, the least we could do is apply the rules for cars to guns too, right?

 

To sum up, the car/gun argument is flawed because they were created for different tasks. One is transportation, the other is a weapon. One is considerably more restricted in who can own and/or operate it, the other is not. One is being made safer with each passing year, the other has remained stagnant in regards to safety over the years. One kills mainly due to human error, the other kills mainly due to human whim.

 

There will come a time in which cars will be inherently safer, as the technology to avoid most collisions has begun being implemented. At that point we'll see automobile deaths cut to a fraction of what they are today. Which means, if gun advocates continue to successfully lobby to maintain the status quo, the day will come that firearms related deaths will outstrip vehicle related deaths, and they will need to discover new rhetoric with which to argue their constitutional "rights".

 

Oh yeah. Tombstone? Really? There's less than 2000 people living there. Statistically speaking, the last real gun violence y'all had was at the O.K. Corral. ;)

[Skiver Veteran]

What nekkidtruth is saying is the truth. There are no rational or logical reasons in which people should be walking around in public with rifles, or shotguns. And, as someone whose favorite weapon is the AK-47, which I've owned in the past, there really aren't any logical reasons to own anything like that for the normal citizen. Are they fun to shoot? Sure. Is it a well-crafted, modern marvel of firearms that can add to a great collection? Yes, in my opinion. Do I need a 30+ round, massive instrument of death dealing? Absolutely not.

 

One of my current guns is a Glock 32 that can hold as much as 14 rounds of ammunition. Can anyone logically explain to me why I need a gun that has an ammo capacity above ten rounds? Hell, above 8. Doubtful. The fact is... I don't NEED it. And, honestly I hope I never need to use it on another person. Unfortunately, one of the classic tenets of gun owners here in the States is, "Better to have it and not need it, then to need it and not have it." And, I've always personally said that the reason I have a gun is because of the idiots out there with guns. Louie had it right. What a wonderful world, eh?   

 

Don't get me wrong, I can absolutely understand wanting an owning a gun like that. I know there is a thread in here somewhere about what guns you won/collect. I get that, but as you seem to agree this just seems to be a group of people who are more interested in exercising their rights as American citizens rather than acting like a decent huamn being.

 

I get the whole I would rather have it and not need it statement too, I use that quite a lot in life. So I would understand the side of no concealed weapons being allowed, Obviously the whole gun law is high debated and I don't want to get into that but I don't see the issue in concealed weapons as long as its done properly. Heck that probably works as a better deterrant than having something on show. 

[Lucas]

What a bunch of retarded ######. :P I hope someone shoots themselves just for the fun of it, slow death in public, that'd definitely be worth it.