Deriding Dean

[OrangeSoul]

This Disillusioned right winged writer says Dean is crazy for saying something about Bush knowing about September 11th from Saudi`s before 9/11, yet I have never seen an article from him about Cheney and Rumself who said CONSISTENTLY : " We know where Saddam is hiding his WMD"

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/krauthammer1.asp

[Hiro P.]

i think you need to get over this belief that Bush administration officials are the only people that said Saddam has/had WMD, the entire planet has been saying it for the last decade.

[Fotix]

Krauthammer is thoroughly skewered here:

http://www.dailyhowler.com/

His PoS article is taken apart here

http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh120503.shtml

[Hiro P.]

wow Dean says he thinks it's the governments right to stop free press when it doesn't pander to his idealogy and the people that call him on it are insane?

you people have serious issues

[Fotix]

wow Dean says he thinks it's the governments right to stop free press when it doesn't pander to his idealogy and the people that call him on it are insane?

you people have serious issues

I don't understand why conservatives don't welcome the re-introduction of the Fairness Doctrine, considering the media is just so gosh darn liberal right now! We could use some fairness, don't you think? Never mind that the Conservatives control all 3 branches of the U.S. government at the moment, the liberal media must be put to a stop.

--------------

Back to reality, here's a clip of a section of the transcript with Dean interviewed by GE/MS media ###### Chris Matthews. Undoctored, unlike the Krauthammer did to attack a straw man.

DEAN: I would reverse in some areas.

      First of all, 11 companies in this country control 90 percent of what ordinary people are able to read and watch on their television. That?s wrong. We need to have a wide variety of opinions in every community. We don?t have that because of Michael Powell and what George Bush has tried to do to the FCC.

      MATTHEWS: Would you break up Fox?

      (LAUGHTER)

      MATTHEWS: I?m serious.

      DEAN: I?m keeping a...

      MATTHEWS: Would you break it up? Rupert Murdoch has ?The Weekly Standard.? It has got a lot of other interests. It has got ?The New York Post.? Would you break it up?

      DEAN: On ideological grounds, absolutely yes, but...

      (LAUGHTER)

      MATTHEWS: No, seriously. As a public policy, would you bring industrial policy to bear and break up these conglomerations of power?

      DEAN: I don?t want to answer whether I would break up Fox or not,

      because, obviously

      (CROSSTALK)

      MATTHEWS: Well, how about large media enterprises?

      DEAN: Let me-yes, let me get...

      (LAUGHTER)

      DEAN: The answer to that is yes.

      I would say that there is too much penetration by single corporations in media markets all over this country. We need locally-owned radio stations. There are only two or three radio stations left in the state of Vermont where you can get local news anymore. The rest of it is read and ripped from the AP.

      MATTHEWS: So what are you going to do about it? You?re going to be president of the United States, what are you going to do?

      DEAN: What I?m going to do is appoint people to the FCC that believe democracy depends on getting information from all portions of the political spectrum, not just one.

      MATTHEWS: Well, would you break up GE?

      (APPLAUSE)

      DEAN: I can?t-you...

      MATTHEWS: GE just buys Universal. Would you do something there about that? Would you stop that from happening?

      DEAN: You can?t say-you can?t ask me right now and get an answer, would I break up X corp...

      MATTHEWS: We?ve got to do it now, because now is the only chance we can ask you, because, once you are in, we have got to live with you.

      (LAUGHTER)

      DEAN: No.

      MATTHEWS: So, if you are going to do it, you have got to tell us now.

      (CROSSTALK)

      MATTHEWS: Are you going to break up the giant media enterprises in this country?

      DEAN: Yes, we?re going to break up giant media enterprises. That doesn?t mean we?re going to break up all of GE.

      What we?re going to do is say that media enterprises can?t be as big as they are today. I don?t think we actually have to break them up, which Teddy Roosevelt had to do with the leftovers from the McKinley administration.

      (CROSSTALK)

      MATTHEWS: ... regulate them.

      DEAN: You have got to say that there has to be a limit as to how-if the state has an interest, which it does, in preserving democracy, then there has to be a limitation on how deeply the media companies can penetrate every single community. To the extent of even having two or three or four outlets in a single community, that kind of information control is not compatible with democracy.

      MATTHEWS: How-how far would you go in terms of public policy?

      (APPLAUSE)

      MATTHEWS: This is not-what you describe is not laissez-faire.

      It?s not capitalism.

      DEAN: It is capitalism.

      MATTHEWS: How would you-what would you call it?

      DEAN: I am absolutely a capitalist. Capitalism is the greatest system that people have ever invented, because it takes advantage of bad traits, as well as our good traits, and turns them into productivity.

      But the essence of capitalism, which the right-wing never understands

      ? it always baffles me-is, you got to have some rules. Imagine a hockey game with no rules.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/1000254.asp

Edited December 9, 2003 by Fotix

[digipoi]

I take it Orange is starting to do some Neowin campaigning for Dean.

[Hiro P.]

"MATTHEWS: Would you break up Fox?....Would you break it up?

DEAN: On ideological grounds, absolutely yes"

i think thats all you really need to see out of Fotixs' speil, no doctoring there, can you imagine the uproar from the looney left if Bush said the New York Times needed to be broken up?

[DaBeeeenster]

I think they just might have been talking about News International, genius.

[Hiro P.]

I think they just might have been talking about News International, genius.

what the hell are you on about?

they are talking about Fox, as in the news channel run by Roger Ailes that everyone on the left has their panties in a bunch about.

[Fotix]

"MATTHEWS: Would you break up Fox?....Would you break it up?

DEAN: On ideological grounds, absolutely yes"

i think thats all you really need to see out of Fotixs' speil, no doctoring there, can you imagine the uproar from the looney left if Bush said the New York Times needed to be broken up?

He was joking. You would think the (LAUGHTER) and Matthews telling him to be serious would be a giveaway, but I guess that's lost on some.

Dean later went on to say he couldn't name a specfic conglomerate he would break up and didn't wish to do.

MATTHEWS: Well, would you break up GE?

      (APPLAUSE)

DEAN: I can?t-you...

DEAN: You can?t say-you can?t ask me right now and get an answer, would I break up X corp...

The only thing really concrete in this segment was

DEAN: What I?m going to do is appoint people to the FCC that believe democracy depends on getting information from all portions of the political spectrum, not just one.

[John S. Veteran]

I don't understand why conservatives don't welcome the re-introduction of the Fairness Doctrine, considering the media is just so gosh darn liberal right now! We could use some fairness, don't you think? Never mind that the Conservatives control all 3 branches of the U.S. government at the moment, the liberal media must be put to a stop.

The Fairness doctrine? :woot: :laugh: :laugh: :woot: :laugh: Fair to whom? Maybe it hasn't dawned on the left yet, but in a free market, the public decides what they like and dislike. A great deal of the thinking behind the 'Fairness Doctrine' was a lame attempt to force radio stations that aired Rush to grant equal time to an opposing viewpoint. This is America, not the old Soviet Union. Just wait, Gore's working on putting together his Leftist News Organization (like there aren't already enough). :rolleyes:

[Hiro P.]

He was joking. You would think the (LAUGHTER) and Matthews telling him to be serious would be a giveaway, but I guess that's lost on some.

Dean later went on to say he couldn't name a specfic conglomerate he would break up and didn't wish to do.

The only thing really concrete in this segment was

i think it's more that he "wouldn't name" instead of he "couldn't name", theres no disputing he said he would break up Fox after Matthews said "i'm serious" so it's safe to assume Dean was being serious too.

[DaBeeeenster]

what the hell are you on about?

they are talking about Fox, as in the news channel run by Roger Ailes that everyone on the left has their panties in a bunch about.

OK good. Now look up who owns Fox.

[Fotix]

The Fairness doctrine?  :woot:  :laugh:  :laugh:  :woot:  :laugh:  Fair to whom?  Maybe it hasn't dawned on the left yet, but in a free market, the public decides what they like and dislike.  A great deal of the thinking behind the 'Fairness Doctrine' was a lame attempt to force radio stations that aired Rush to grant equal time to an opposing viewpoint.  This is America, not the old Soviet Union.  Just wait, Gore's working on putting together his Leftist News Organization (like there aren't already enough).  :rolleyes:

But, I want to punish the liberal media. You complain about it all the time, and want to do zippo nada zilch null about it. Why is that? Is whining going to solve anything? Let's get some concrete anti-liberal media action going! Talk is cheap. Better yet--break up the liberal media. They've hurt Republicans so much. The party can't get anyone elected president or gain control of Congress due to the liberal propaganda that is everywhere. Damn them. Damn them to hell!

--------

OK, I'm finished on that rant.

Witness CBS/Viacom yanking the Reagan miniseries off the air because of the Republican whining. But who cares, 'cause drug junkie messiah Rush needs his radio program to run with no fairness in America.

Edited December 9, 2003 by Fotix

[Hiro P.]

OK good. Now look up who owns Fox.

no one said anything about News Int, it's plainly obvious to anyone with an IQ higher than 3 that Matthews and Dean were talking about the Fox News Channel and their right leaning bias.

[DaBeeeenster]

First of all, 11 companies in this country control 90 percent of what ordinary people are able to read and watch on their television. That?s wrong. We need to have a wide variety of opinions in every community. We don?t have that because of Michael Powell and what George Bush has tried to do to the FCC.

They are talking about cross channel media ownership. They are talking about News International. They may call "it" Fox, but they are talking about News International.

[Fotix]

They are talking about cross channel media ownership. They are talking about News International. They may call "it" Fox, but they are talking about News International.

You are right. FOX is what it is called in the United States, but it's owned by News Corporation.

FOX is not what would be broken up--it's News Corp that funds it and pats Ailes on the head for doing Rupert's and the Republicans' work. He's definitely Australia's worst export ever, I'll say that much at least, and I'm ashamed he's a U.S. citizen.

edit: fixed my spelling

Edited December 9, 2003 by Fotix

[DaBeeeenster]

Hehe. I think I've finally met someone who has as much distaste for Murdoch as I do! I actually got a letter published in the Guardain about him.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/letters/story/0,...,735780,00.html

Second letter down. It was in response to this story:

http://media.guardian.co.uk/city/story/0,7497,731157,00.html

Living in Sydney at the moment I have jogged passed one of his sons a couple of times on the beach. Had to fight the urge to kick sand in his face lol!

[FearMeAll]

Dean is God's gift to George Bush. I hope he wins the democratic nomination because Dean is so far to the left that he will not be able to run to the middle fast enough to get the 34% of swing voters in America. Let Dean go, let him win the nomination, it's a good thing for conservatives.

Dean's sect of people he's appealing to are the tail that's wagging the dog, a group of extreme liberals that do not make up a majority of the American public but scream loud enough that you can believe it so.

Swing voters determine every presidential election, and they always vote more moderate, and Bush will have an easier time running to middle ground than Dean.

[Dave Veteran]

Dean is God's gift to George Bush. I hope he wins the democratic nomination because Dean is so far to the left that he will not be able to run to the middle fast enough to get the 34% of swing voters in America. Let Dean go, let him win the nomination, it's a good thing for conservatives.

Dean's sect of people he's appealing to are the tail that's wagging the dog, a group of extreme liberals that do not make up a majority of the American public but scream loud enough that you can believe it so.

Swing voters determine every presidential election, and they always vote more moderate, and Bush will have an easier time running to middle ground than Dean.

Truer and sadder words have never been written about the American Democracy. That so often men of any conviction need to pander to an all too frequently unconcerned middle ground.

Just shows that lying politicians is as much our fault as the politician's, if he didn't lie he'd only be a failed politician.

[FearMeAll]

That so often men of any conviction need to pander to an all too frequently unconcerned middle ground.

Just shows that lying politicians is as much our fault as the politician's, if he didn't lie he'd only be a failed politician.

I have to agree there. I would rather Bush took a more conservative viewpoint on the healthcare issue and education bill rather than pandering to the democrats and the democratic voting sect. That entire ordeal is for the sole purpose of getting votes in '04, because these domestic bills are not coherent with conservative ideology. I give him props though for his resolve about the situation in Iraq as well as his efforts to cut taxes, as this falls in line with my right winged ideology.

Moderates abound because of apathy and ignorance. I have more respect for a person on the far left (even though I am vehemently against their stand on government and the state of man) than a moderate, because at least they have studied what they believe and hold it to the flames of debate. A lot of moderates I meet in my college atmosphere simply do not seem to care at all about the state of the nation as long as they can eek through their own lives, and they are also no fun to argue with, since if you nail them on an issue, they will just throw up their hands with an "I don't care" retort.

But perhaps moderate government would exist anyway in America if there was just a strong left wing and a strong right because these two factions would simply have to compromise on every issue in order to maintain any order. So either way leads to the same end, whether it be a running to middle for votes, or a neck and neck battle between left and right, the outcome is going to be the same in a huge republic; which is what James Madison wanted when arguing for a Republican (not in the party sense) Government in America.

[Dave Veteran]

Glad I have your support on something you fascist (Just to show I'm kidding, you get to cal me a pinko once, with out any questions asked)

[FearMeAll]

Glad I have your support on something you fascist (Just to show I'm kidding, you get to cal me a pinko once, with out any questions asked)

he he..not thaaaaaat far right. Fascism exits the realm of liberty and starts the ethnic cleansing thing and turns into something that conservatism has no bearing on. It is an unhealthy extreme of the right, and communism is the unhealthy extreme of the left. Both extremes suck monkey balls, and work together. (Hitler=socialism/nazism, Stalin=communism, Mussolini=fascism to name a few.)

ya never came across as a pinko. :laugh: