Florida dad beats man he found allegedly raping his son

[theyarecomingforyou]

The public attitude towards pedophiles is akin to that of serial killers - aggressive.

When serial killer Richard Ramirez (California's Night Stalker) was ID'ed and photo published he was recognized, pursued by a crowd and damn near killed - beaten over the head with a metal bar.

Indeed - it's incredibly sad. :no: We've had a similar thing in the UK where people suspected of being paedophiles have been assaulted and killed, even though they were completely innocent. It is outrageous in this day and age for people to take justice into their own hands, especially in cases where they have no connection to the incident. Some people operate on such a primal level it's a wonder they've functioned in society as long as they have.

[domboy]

No, but two wrongs don't make a right.

 

Indeed, when this guy abuses another child it still won't be right. Best to make sure he only commits this wrong once.

 

Doesn't work, they still abuse them by hand, sex toy, orally or whatever.. It's the organ between their ears, not their legs.

 

I'm definitively no expert on the subject, but it is my understanding that castration reduces sexual desire, so perhaps it might actually be a viable solution depending on the actual motivation. Article on the subject:

 

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=93947

 

 

Well, there are people at least trying to think of ways to help them, like this BBC article.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-28353238

 

Though that pic gives me the major creeps!

 

While providing an outlet for the desire, wouldn't it just re-enforce the desire or behavior? To play the devil's advocate for a moment... are pedophiles born that way? If so, maybe we should give them a robot. That robot does look creepy though. But then again, if it looked more like a real child it might be even more disturbing (think along the lines of the child robot in the movie AI). It's strange to think some societies in the past have condoned sexual relationships between children and adults. Probably not rape though.

 

Back more on topic, I'm sure I would have done the same thing this dad did, and I'm glad the law enforcement that responded to the scene had the good sense to not charge the dad with anything. I never know... seems the victims and their defenders get persecuted in court more often than not these days.

[Guest]

No, but two wrongs don't make a right.

 

That I agree.

 

I guess we'd disagree here about whether just ending those bad people is right or wrong. Honestly, I don't see anything wrong in simply erasing someone who raped or killed someone else intentionally / willingly. In my opinion, these people do not deserve to be part of humanity after their acts.

[Zidane]

Indeed - it's incredibly sad. :no: We've had a similar thing in the UK where people suspected of being paedophiles have been assaulted and killed, even though they were completely innocent. It is outrageous in this day and age for people to take justice into their own hands, especially in cases where they have no connection to the incident. Some people operate on such a primal level it's a wonder they've functioned in society as long as they have.

I've watched posts from you the last few months and I have to say that your rhetoric is getting more and more intense.

 

We get it, you hate violence. You dream of a society where no one has guns, justice is dealt purely by the courts, and criminals get rehabilitation that works. A utopia so to speak.

 

...but as I said, its just a dream. Reality is humans are and shall always be a violent race, justice will be handed out to a criminal (especially a rapist) on impulse, we will continue to innovate more effective ways to kill each other, and criminals will almost always not turn their life around:the definition of a career criminal. This is the difference between a dream and reality.

 

Do some prisoners defy the norm and become productive members of societies? Absolutely. Problem is we aren't comparing apples to apples here. Child rapists are born with the desire within their genetic code. At best, they can learn to supress it but it will ALWAYS be there (based on present day science). It is incredibly sad they were handed this fate but even worse that a child has to endure the molestation. Humans are naturally protective of our young and innocent and, to be frank, the guy in this case is incredibly lucky to be alive.

 

You commented to the effect that he wasn't showing restraint and/or a level head. In turn I argue that he showed incredible restraint and kept his wits about him. The man could have very well killed him and had seen not a day in court.

[theyarecomingforyou]

I've watched posts from you the last few months and I have to say that your rhetoric is getting more and more intense.

 

We get it, you hate violence. You dream of a society where no one has guns, justice is dealt purely by the courts, and criminals get rehabilitation that works. A utopia so to speak.

I simply oppose the US system of vengeance as justice. In Europe there are open prisons where murderers and rapists are free to mingle and exist peacefully alongside other prisoners, where they live quality lives and don't pose a threat to society. The reoffending rate is substantially lower and prisoners are given respect and helped to become productive members of society. I recognise that paedophiles and rapists may be unable to control their behaviour but I want a solution that protects society whilst allowing them a quality life.

 

I see the function of the criminal justice system as protecting society from dangerous individuals, rather than simply punishing people. The reality with most rapists and paedophiles is that they were themselves abused and have lived troubled lives (poverty, abuse, gang violence, drugs, poor education, etc) - punishing them for the failings of society is simply wrong, in my eyes. It is the job of a society to care for all members, not to simply sweep them under the rug when they fall out of line.

[DocM]

I'm glad you're not in charge of the justice system. Let's just build a campfire, sit down with them to talk about it and sing Kumbaya.

I wonder if those who decry what this man did to the pedophile would shake their heads at some 4 legged critter getting whacked or killed by a lioness protecting her cub? After all, to humanists we're all just animals, right? Hmmmm....

[Zidane]

I simply oppose the US system of vengeance as justice. In Europe there are open prisons where murderers and rapists are free to mingle and exist peacefully alongside other prisoners, where they live quality lives and don't pose a threat to society. The reoffending rate is substantially lower and prisoners are given respect and helped to become productive members of society. I recognise that paedophiles and rapists may be unable to control their behaviour but I want a solution that protects society whilst allowing them a quality life.

 

I see the function of the criminal justice system as protecting society from dangerous individuals, rather than simply punishing people. The reality with most rapists and paedophiles is that they were themselves abused and have lived troubled lives (poverty, abuse, gang violence, drugs, poor education, etc) - punishing them for the failings of society is simply wrong, in my eyes. It is the job of a society to care for all members, not to simply sweep them under the rug when they fall out of line.

I can respect your views but I won't respect pushing an "Anti-USA" agenda just because you can make it fit the situation. It is natural for HUMANS to seek vengeance against agressors, not those 50 states across the pond. Please stop promoting all your arguments with "The US does this wrong but here in the UK we do it right". It makes you look exceptionally biased and undermines the points you try to make.

[FloatingFatMan]

I can respect your views but I won't respect pushing an "Anti-USA" agenda just because you can make it fit the situation. It is natural for HUMANS to seek vengeance against agressors, not those 50 states across the pond. Please stop promoting all your arguments with "The US does this wrong but here in the UK we do it right". It makes you look exceptionally biased and undermines the points you try to make.

 

Just to counter that a bit.  Here in the UK, we do NOT do it right all the time, or even a lot of the time.  Dangerous murderers are NOT let to wander around in open prisons generally, except where they're near the end of their sentence, and recently there have even been a few escapes of these dangerous people because we were too lenient on them.

 

Generally, I think trying to rehabilitate is always better then punishment alone because eventually, those criminals will be released at the end of their sentence.  It would be foolish in the extreme to not at least try to make them safe.

[theyarecomingforyou]

I can respect your views but I won't respect pushing an "Anti-USA" agenda just because you can make it fit the situation. It is natural for HUMANS to seek vengeance against agressors, not those 50 states across the pond. Please stop promoting all your arguments with "The US does this wrong but here in the UK we do it right". It makes you look exceptionally biased and undermines the points you try to make.

Just to counter that a bit.  Here in the UK, we do NOT do it right all the time, or even a lot of the time.  Dangerous murderers are NOT let to wander around in open prisons generally, except where they're near the end of their sentence, and recently there have even been a few escapes of these dangerous people because we were too lenient on them.

 

Generally, I think trying to rehabilitate is always better then punishment alone because eventually, those criminals will be released at the end of their sentence.  It would be foolish in the extreme to not at least try to make them safe.

While I think the US justice system is particularly egregious in its use of punitive punishment?and I won't apologise for pointing that out?FloatingFatMan is right to point out that the UK has a long, long way to go. Here we rely too much on punishment and hand out jail sentences even when they're counterproductive - for instance, evidence has shown that people jailed for less than a year are far more likely to reoffend than those sentenced to community service. Too often long prison sentences are given because that's what the public expects, rather than because it's what is best for society. Prisons in the UK do little to rehabilitate people back into society.

 

I'm embarrassed by the UK criminal justice system and would like to see us move more towards the progressive Scandinavian model. Too often politicians in the UK try to look tough on crime by implementing petty restrictions, like early bed times for youth offenders. Such initiatives are ideologically driven rather than evidence-based and usually create more problems than they solve. I think Richard Branson is a great one to look at for his work with the criminal justice system, as his employment programmes in prisons have led to a dramatic reduction in the reoffending rate by empowering prisoners to take control over their future (it's covered in one of his books, I believe it's 'Screw Business As Usual') - he has also called for the decriminalisation of drugs, which is something desperately needed here and which Portugal has demonstrated works.

 

It is natural for HUMANS to seek vengeance against agressors, not those 50 states across the pond.

It's natural for humans to defecate in the woods but that doesn't mean we should be doing that in a civilised society. Being 'natural' doesn't make it right. Emotions are natural but they should be controlled.

[Tews]

 

... Generally, I think trying to rehabilitate is always better then punishment ...

 

How bout we send them to your neighborhood, and then you can tell us how well your rehabilitation programs are working out.. :rolleyes:

[DocM]

Career criminals, and sexual predators qualify, seldom reform, we see it here all the time.

There's a recent case here where a drug dealer was discharged from a Re-Entry Center (prepares them for release; life skills, sets them up etc.)

First thing he did was execute a 2 year old girl in front of her father. Why? To make the father suffer before he tried to kill him.

A lot of folks just can't be fixed.

[FloatingFatMan]

How bout we send them to your neighborhood, and then you can tell us how well your rehabilitation programs are working out.. :rolleyes:

 

Rehabilitating != letting them roam around free to do what they want. Don't be so obtuse.

 

Also, when quoting someone, do not misrepresent their words.

 

I said:

 

Generally, I think trying to rehabilitate is always better then punishment alone because eventually, those criminals will be released at the end of their sentence.  It would be foolish in the extreme to not at least try to make them safe.

Career criminals, and sexual predators qualify, seldom reform, we see it here all the time.

There's a recent case here where a drug dealer was discharged from a Re-Entry Center (prepares them for release; life skills, sets them up etc.)

First thing he did was execute a 2 year old girl in front of her father. Why? To make the father suffer before he tried to kill him.

A lot of folks just can't be fixed.

 

And if he'd been helped before he became that hardened, perhaps he might not have actually done that...

[Rippleman]

After all, to humanists we're all just animals, right? Hmmmm....

 

Species value same species more then outside species.... sorry, you are wrong on that one.

[robertwnielsen]

The world isn't full of unicorns farting rainbows and blowing kisses, no matter how much you want it to be.

 

I'm sure you think they should have sat down, sipped on some tea and discussed why he did that to his son to work on an amicable solution.

 

Don't forget singing Kum Ba Ya. People like that always sing Kum Ba Ya, while sipping on tea and discussing the issue. :)

[theyarecomingforyou]

Career criminals, and sexual predators qualify, seldom reform, we see it here all the time.

There's a recent case here where a drug dealer was discharged from a Re-Entry Center (prepares them for release; life skills, sets them up etc.)

Punishing the perpetrator doesn't help them, nor does it address the root causes; it just sweeps the issue under the rug. Being a drug dealer and murderer isn't genetic - people aren't born that way. Society has failed these people on numerous occasions to result in that behaviour. Simply locking them away for the rest of their lives isn't right, though obviously nor is letting them back into society when they pose a risk. Society has an obligation to these people, just as it has an obligation to the victims and potential victims. As I mentioned earlier, the Norwegian system is certainly worth considering - it allows these people to live relatively normal lives while protecting the general public.

 

Don't forget singing Kum Ba Ya. People like that always sing Kum Ba Ya, while sipping on tea and discussing the issue. :)

All this 'unicorns' and 'kumbaya' nonsense is getting really tedious. There are alternatives to stringing these people up from the nearest lamppost.

[adrynalyne]

 

 

All this 'unicorns' and 'kumbaya' nonsense is getting really tedious. There are alternatives to stringing these people up from the nearest lamppost.

Truth hurts huh? 

[DocM]

Yup. The woodchipper.

[theyarecomingforyou]

Truth hurts huh? 

If your idea of 'truth' involves unicorns then I really don't know what to say.  :|

[DocM]

Like it or not, some folks are born with defects in their prefrontal cortex that predispose them to be this way. This can be genetic, and impacts impulse control etc.

Combined with environmental factors, perhaps a minor head injury or sometimes nothing at all, this can begin the cascade leading to psychopathy.

You can't prevent or anticipate most of these factors, you can only deal with the aftermath; lock them away so they cannot do it again. That or put them down.

[adrynalyne]

If your idea of 'truth' involves unicorns then I really don't know what to say.  :|

Your truth, not mine.

[adrynalyne]

Punishing the perpetrator doesn't help them, nor does it address the root causes<snip>

 

 

 

It doesn't help to punish them for raping or molesting children, so lets just sit down for a cup of tea and talk it out.

 

"Mr. Child Rapist sir, why did you backdoor my son?"  

 

"What could I have done for you to prevent this?  Given you more hugs?"

 

"Are you comfortable sir?  Can I refresh your tea?"

 

"No, no, we won't punish you.  Lets talk about this and learn from our situation to avoid it next time."

[theyarecomingforyou]

Like it or not, some folks are born with defects in their prefrontal cortex that predispose them to be this way. This can be genetic.

Combined with environmental factors, perhaps a minor head injury or sometimes nothing at all, this can begin the cascade leading to psychopathy.

You can't prevent or anticipate most of these factors, you can only deal with the aftermath; lock them away so they cannot do it again. That or put them down.

Being a drug dealer is a learned behaviour, whilst murder is an extreme abhorrent behaviour. Certainly genetics can play a factor but most psychopaths function perfectly normally in society - social factors are usually to blame. It's wrong to simply lock people away or execute them because society doesn't know what to do with them, especially when they have been failed by society. Society has an obligation to these people as much as the victims / potential victims.

 

This isn't about hippy justice, this is about using an evidence based approach to balance the rights of the individual with that of society at large. If there is a better form of justice that prison, and I'm not saying there is in all circumstances, then we should take advantage of it.

[robertwnielsen]

Like it or not, some folks are born with defects in their prefrontal cortex that predispose them to be this way. This can be genetic, and impacts impulse control etc.

Combined with environmental factors, perhaps a minor head injury or sometimes nothing at all, this can begin the cascade leading to psychopathy.

You can't prevent or anticipate most of these factors, you can only deal with the aftermath; lock them away so they cannot do it again. That or put them down.

 

Jim Carrey said it best (as Riddler in Batman Forever)

"Has anybody ever told you you have a SERIOUS IMPULSE CONTROL PROBLEM??"

[Memphis]

If this had been an 18 year old hot girl having relations with this 11 year old boy, instead of calls to kill the perp, many would be asking were these girls were when they were younger and posting the south park meme "nice!".  

[DocM]

Wrong. Punishing sexually predatory behavior cuts both ways. Look at the news.

Taking a more aggressive approach towards a male perp is more a recognition of the greater threat they pose if they try to escape.