us The stigma of being an atheist in the US

[mudslag]

What are you trying to say by posting pictures of the dead who have been killed by religious fanatics?

Officially atheistic countries like the Soviet Union, Communist China and others have done their share of murdering the innocent.

I think we can all agree that evil is found among christians as it is among atheists.

When we look at those kinds of images, what we are seeing is plain old human nature at its lowest.

 

But your pictures serve to illustrate my original point.

Mention god or religion and atheists immediately feel the need to declare how terrible believers can behave.

 

But, I've enjoyed being part of this discussion, so thanks for the visuals anyway.

 

 

Those countries you listed, who have their share of blood on their hands, didnt do it out of the lack of a belief in a god. That's a huge leap from the point Javik was making. Those countries aren't officially atheistic countries either, being against religion does not equate being against the idea of a god. FYI, those countries you listed are full of religious people of many religions. 

[+Red King Subscriber²]

For many Americans, it is normal - if not religiously justified - to discriminate against Atheists.

As after all, by religious faith, those of unfaith are inherently immoral heretics.

Want to get kicked out of your house? Fired? Never have access to any public office? Say that you are an Atheist.

Not difficult to understand.

US is so religious that there is a "Debate" on the validity of vaccines, global warming, and evolution.

:/

[Memphis]

Shockingly worrying isn't it?

 

Saying you're an Atheist in the EU doesn't even usually get a raised eyebrow.

 

THANK GOD (see what i did there?) :p

 

Can someone from the US (preferably an atheist) clarify how bad it really is? Would be good to hear from real people rather than biased media outlets for once.

 

 

If your in a big city no one cares. If your in a small town or the south, don't tell anyone it could very well keep from from getting work or entering several social circles.

[darkrats]

Seriously, you thought I might be unaware that countries have mixture of various kinds of people?

I was trying to show that religion isn't the only source of evil in the world, that we're all guilty of that kind of behaviour.

 

But because I seem to be saying that atheism just might be the same as religion, in some ways,

your response was to show that I'm too uneducated to realize that those countries are "full of religious people"?

[Gerowen]

As an atheist, i'm sick of the new hardcore atheist movement.

Can't we just know we're right and be done with it? :p

Not when there are religious people making the laws we have to live by and saying things like, "Global warming isn't a threat because God promised Noah".  We need more atheist people to get vocal and political and weed out some of these lunatics who believe a magic man in the sky will save them from their own greed and poor decision making skills.

 

Source for quote: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/postpartisan/2010/11/in_the_gops_house_god_wont_all.html

[sanctified Veteran]

The stigma of being an atheist in the us? You guys have it easy, try to be an atheist in a super-conservative country like Mexico. I've been expelled once because of my anti-theist views, got in several fist fights that I did not start and constantly harassed as a young.

[COKid]

The stigma of being an atheist in the us? You guys have it easy, try to be an atheist in a super-conservative country like Mexico. I've been expelled once because of my anti-theist views, got in several fist fights that I did not start and constantly harassed as a young.

You make a great point. The Roman Catholic Church is quite powerful in Central and South America.

 

I'm not going to inject myself too much into this conversation, but it is quite interesting to me none the less. I'm an agnostic and the in-laws aren't crazy about it, but otherwise, I haven't had many issues with being open on the topic.

[mudslag]

Seriously, you thought I might be unaware that countries have mixture of various kinds of people?

I was trying to show that religion isn't the only source of evil in the world, that we're all guilty of that kind of behaviour.

 

But because I seem to be saying that atheism just might be the same as religion, in some ways,

your response was to show that I'm too uneducated to realize that those countries are "full of religious people"?

 

 

 

Whether or not there are other evils in the world wasnt the point of the post you quoted. You tried to make a direct connection to states that dont hold official religious views as some how being equally evil based on atheism to those who kill in the name of religion. Your connection isn't even remotely close to the same. Your silly connection is akin to saying bowling and golf are the same because they both involve a rolling ball to a specific point, it's just silly.

[AnotherITguy]

So, I have been watching this cross fire for a few hours and figured i'd jump in, with one disclosure before I go further....

 

I am a Catholic, two, I believe everyone has a right to believe what they want, whether that includes the belief of an all powerful creator or not. Now to that we have that out of the way, to my point..

 

I. If you look at atheist nations such as Cuba, where they took out all forms of religious statues and the government blatantly used them for target practice, which was later followed by religious repression, the stigma thing goes both ways.

 

II. Tolerance means that whether or not you believe in an all powerful creator or not, you tolerate the person's next to you and their belief, and not try to shove down their throats what you believe in.

 

III. Both sides of the coin are guilty of giving the other a hard time. More recently the Atheist community going on a rampage by essentially saying all catholic statues, crosses or other religious signage from just the catholic or Christian faith "hurts their feelings".

 

IV. We forget that religious belief in this country is being destroyed piece by piece, by not just atheists but with people with an agenda, such as abortion, the unpleasant practice of killing a life, just because and i'm quoting our beloved nancy Pelosi here "An employer has no business in a woman's body"

 

Looking forward to the responses lads.

[darkrats]

I think I'm done with this exchange.

The topic is rarely debated with reason or rationality.

 

We know when the first post is made, that no one's going to be changing their mind about religion or atheism.

But I find it interesting to see how long it takes for things to get bogged down, and we begin repeating ourselves.

Same points, using different words, with some name calling added to the debate when we start to get frustrated.

 

I always appreciate the Neowin Forums.

[mudslag]

I. If you look at atheist nations such as Cuba, where they took out all forms of religious statues and the government blatantly used them for target practice, which was later followed by religious repression, the stigma thing goes both ways.

 

 

The reality is it can be said about any other country that's also run by religious rule. The middle east is the prime example of the exact same thing from the other side of the very coin.

 

 

 

III. Both sides of the coin are guilty of giving the other a hard time. More recently the Atheist community going on a rampage by essentially saying all catholic statues, crosses or other religious signage from just the catholic or Christian faith "hurts their feelings".

 

To be fair, majority of those complaints revolve around religious icons on public lands paid for by public dollars. Which creates a valid argument. It isnt about hurt feelings as much as about the influence that religion holds on our society. You and I both know there would be an equal outcry if public dollars were used to create and display an atheist symbol placed on public lands. 

 

 

 

 

IV. We forget that religious belief in this country is being destroyed piece by piece, by not just atheists but with people with an agenda, such as abortion, the unpleasant practice of killing a life, just because and i'm quoting our beloved nancy Pelosi here "An employer has no business in a woman's body"

 

 

Sorry but that's nonsense. Don't want an abortion, then dont get one but the reality is it's not related to religion itself. They are two separate issues that just happen to be taken up as a cause by religious people. It also has nothing to do with religion loosing ground with followers. Pelosi is right, would you really want someone telling you what you can or can't do with your own body?

[+Red King Subscriber²]

So, I have been watching this cross fire for a few hours and figured i'd jump in, with one disclosure before I go further....

 

I am a Catholic, two, I believe everyone has a right to believe what they want, whether that includes the belief of an all powerful creator or not. Now to that we have that out of the way, to my point..

 

I. If you look at atheist nations such as Cuba, where they took out all forms of religious statues and the government blatantly used them for target practice, which was later followed by religious repression, the stigma thing goes both ways.

 

II. Tolerance means that whether or not you believe in an all powerful creator or not, you tolerate the person's next to you and their belief, and not try to shove down their throats what you believe in.

 

III. Both sides of the coin are guilty of giving the other a hard time. More recently the Atheist community going on a rampage by essentially saying all catholic statues, crosses or other religious signage from just the catholic or Christian faith "hurts their feelings".

 

IV. We forget that religious belief in this country is being destroyed piece by piece, by not just atheists but with people with an agenda, such as abortion, the unpleasant practice of killing a life, just because and i'm quoting our beloved nancy Pelosi here "An employer has no business in a woman's body"

 

Looking forward to the responses lads.

I. You can't fix stupid people, they will find their opium. Russia is a perfect example, from Communist propaganda supposedly atheist hell hole to highly religious propaganda homophobic hell hole.

II. Tolerating another person's belief is the equivalent of being enslaved by it. The proper response is to stand up against it or watch your rights / freedoms diminish.

III. It is called fighting for rights actually. You don't see it that way because you approve of politicians, judges, etc. openly discriminate against non-Christians..

IV. Which means you don't actually tolerate pro-choice people at all (contradictory to II) and do not want pro-choice people to have rights that you are not willing to invoke.

[Shiranui]

being atheist in US are actually very lucky compared being an atheist in predominates Muslim countries.

atheists in US should have been grateful for where they are.

That's a pretty sad indictment of the state of the US in 2014.

[+Frank B. Subscriber²]

It's ridiculous how many in this thread are trying to distract from the core issue: Atheists being discriminated against in large parts of the US. Yes, we know the Soviet Union did horrible things against believers. In the past.

Discrimination of atheists in the US happens now.

Oh, and: AnotherITGuy: I paid for an abortion. The 15-year-old daughter of a friend of mine became pregnant; her mother asked me for help because her husband would have divorced the mother on the spot had he known. I didn't hesitate, I helped out immediately.

Does that make me a good or a horrible person? I'm curious.

[FloatingFatMan]

Oh, and: AnotherITGuy: I paid for an abortion. The 15-year-old daughter of a friend of mine became pregnant; her mother asked me for help because her husband would have divorced the mother on the spot had he known. I didn't hesitate, I helped out immediately.

Does that make me a good or a horrible person? I'm curious.

 

In my books, that makes you a good friend. :)

 

Though, really?  Leaving the pregnant daughter's MOM!?  How is it her fault!?!  Sounds like that father has some issues! :p

[+Frank B. Subscriber²]

In my books, that makes you a good friend. :)

 

Though, really?  Leaving the pregnant daughter's MOM!?  How is it her fault!?!  Sounds like that father has some issues! :p

The father is rather religious. Since he's working out of state on a regular basis he thinks it's her responsibility to watch over the kids. So.. teenage pregnancy/abortion are a no-no, and the mother's fault for having let it come that far.

 

Doesn't make sense at all to me, but what do I know.

[HardyRexion]

So, I have been watching this cross fire for a few hours and figured i'd jump in, with one disclosure before I go further....

 

I am a Catholic, two, I believe everyone has a right to believe what they want, whether that includes the belief of an all powerful creator or not. Now to that we have that out of the way, to my point..

 

I. If you look at atheist nations such as Cuba, where they took out all forms of religious statues and the government blatantly used them for target practice, which was later followed by religious repression, the stigma thing goes both ways.

 

II. Tolerance means that whether or not you believe in an all powerful creator or not, you tolerate the person's next to you and their belief, and not try to shove down their throats what you believe in.

 

III. Both sides of the coin are guilty of giving the other a hard time. More recently the Atheist community going on a rampage by essentially saying all catholic statues, crosses or other religious signage from just the catholic or Christian faith "hurts their feelings".

 

IV. We forget that religious belief in this country is being destroyed piece by piece, by not just atheists but with people with an agenda, such as abortion, the unpleasant practice of killing a life, just because and i'm quoting our beloved nancy Pelosi here "An employer has no business in a woman's body"

 

Looking forward to the responses lads.

Agreed except for the first part of point IV.

 

Anything we believe in that can be destroyed with facts, SHOULD be, including religion.

 

The argument of abortion is way off topic. Supporters of both sides of that argument are among ALL faiths and belief systems. Moral stances aren't exclusive to one's religion. Those who believe that without religion we have no morals are so blinded it's scary.

[Rohdekill]

Are things really so bad in the USA that people are actually afraid of saying they're atheists? Are you lot living in the middle east or something? :o

 

They're not "afraid" to say it.  They just don't want to be bombarded for an hour afterwards with people shoving their religious views into their face.  Rarely, does an atheist sit there and ramble on about their views.  If other religions would do the same, the world would be a much happier place.

[xrobwx71]

Well that sounds good given how well the gay community have done for themselves.  If it wasn't for those in your face gay pride parades (amongst other things) homosexuality would still be illegal, attacks on homosexuals would still be prevalent and gay marriage wouldn't even be up for consideration.  The gay rights movement has increased tolerance around the world and, if this article is correct, it sounds like American atheists could do a lot worse than to follow their example.

It's not the parades that made it better. It's the lawmakers that were voted into office that authored laws to protect the gay rights. I liken the gay rights parades and such to the AK-47 toting into Target and  parades of the gun rights advocates. All that did was hurt the gun right movement. No parade on any agenda has ever written or passed a law or amendment.

[FloatingFatMan]

It's not the parades that made it better. It's the lawmakers that were voted into office that authored laws to protect the gay rights. I liken the gay rights parades and such to the AK-47 toting into Target and  parades of the gun rights advocates. All that did was hurt the gun right movement. No parade on any agenda has ever written or passed a law or amendment.

 

Actually, you're wrong. The gay pride parades did one very important thing.  They let people know that a huge injustice was being done to a group of people, and caused the lawmakers to take note of the problem and start to fix it.

[xrobwx71]

Actually, you're wrong. The gay pride parades did one very important thing.  They let people know that a huge injustice was being done to a group of people, and caused the lawmakers to take note of the problem and start to fix it.

Hey, I've been wrong before.  :)

[Dashel]

Like science?

Science is a method though, not a 'belief' system.  While it may be one component, it does nothing to speak to the 'why' questions.  You can't live in ivory towers all the time.

 

Even though he was agnostic, Sagan's Cosmos is an exercise in humanism.

[Gone]

Generalize much? 

No, not really.

 

Yeah, why do people oppose religion... I mean it's not as if blind unthinking faith ever causes harm, right?

 

jonestown.jpg911_2.jpg

 

 

No, the definition of agnostic is one who thinks the existence of god is unknowable.

 

 

LOL... The religious have spent the better part of a century trying to make it all about them. You dislike the atheists because they'll no longer shut up and take your crap.

Cry much?

 

I don't give two ###### what others think, as long as I don't have to hear some dumb ass flaunt their views and call others stupid because of their own.

For many Americans, it is normal - if not religiously justified - to discriminate against Atheists.

As after all, by religious faith, those of unfaith are inherently immoral heretics.

Want to get kicked out of your house? Fired? Never have access to any public office? Say that you are an Atheist.

Not difficult to understand.

US is so religious that there is a "Debate" on the validity of vaccines, global warming, and evolution.

:/

You obviously must not watch the news. Atheist complain about the world god being anywhere, public buildings, statues, our pledge. Oh no, separation of church and state means we can't say god!!! Wahhh wahhhh!

 

Yes, never mind the fact that they are trying to build a statue of Satan somewhere.

[TPreston]

No, not really.

 

You obviously must not watch the news. Atheist complain about the world god being anywhere, public buildings, statues, our pledge. Oh no, separation of church and state means we can't say god!!! Wahhh wahhhh!

 

Yes, never mind the fact that they are trying to build a statue of Satan somewhere.

 

Americans United for Separation of Church and State isn't an atheist group :sleep:

[T3X4S]

Atheist Experience - Austin

Always insightful and most of the time downright funny.

The only thing causing harm to religion is: technology, advances as a civilization, less indoctrination.... and the fact it was a movement created IN THE BRONZE AGE !  Atheists themselves are not the reason for falling numbers in church attendance - its because people are sick of the crap that is spewed and how these supposed holy people running the church are movtivated by money more than anything else -

At least, thats my opinion