Unarmed Man Killed by Police in Ferguson, Missouri


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Wyn6

Ferguson, Missouri (CNN) -- A new witness in the police shooting of unarmed teen Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri, told CNN that Brown and the police officer tussled at the police car window, then the officer shot the teen multiple times, as Brown backed away.

 

"What I saw was when Michael and the cop were wrestling through the window," Tiffany Mitchell told CNN's Don Lemon. A shot was fired while Brown was out the window. He got free, and the officer got out of the vehicle, followed Brown and shot him, she said.

 

He raised his hands, and the officer kept firing, she said.

 

Police fired tear gas at a crowd of protesters late Wednesday for another night, as the group gathered to protest Brown's deadly shooting.

 

Officers in riot gear then marched toward the protesters near a burned out gas station, which has become the gathering point for demonstrations.

 

Police announced that they no longer considered the protest peaceful, before they fired the canisters, CNN producer Yon Pomrenze said. People fled in all directions, as the stinging clouds wafted by them.

A separate small group of over a dozen people gathered outside Ferguson's police station holding up signs and chanting protests for a fifth day.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/13/us/missouri-teen-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

 

I've seen many news topics from the mundane to the controversial posted and discussed on Neowin, often times as soon as they break. But, when I didn't see this topic posted, I waited a few days out of curiosity to see if it would. Just wondering why we're not talking about this and its aftermath.

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+Frank B.

Curiously enough I too was waiting for our American friends in particular to post this topic. Now that you've posted it I'd love to hear what they have to say about it.

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Shiranui

Surprised this wasn't posted earlier.

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Wyn6

While we don't know all the facts of the actual shooting and only have the word of witnesses versus the cop, it appears the First Amendment has been scratched out in Kabul. I mean, Ferguson.

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Dinggus

I've already heard 2 different stories besides this one.

 

1 - Cop stopped these 2, told them to put their hands up, and he shoots the victim.

 

2 - Cop stopped these 2 due to a shop lifting incident, he tries to detain the victim, victim struggles and tries grabbing for the cop's weapon.

 

3 - This one.

 

I'll wait for the real facts to come out, but as of now I think people are over reacting, and once again turning this into a racism game. Yet, when the "knock out" game was on the news, you didn't see white victims protesting covering an eye or something to protest.

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Wyn6

I've already heard 2 different stories besides this one.

 

1 - Cop stopped these 2, told them to put their hands up, and he shoots the victim.

 

2 - Cop stopped these 2 due to a shop lifting incident, he tries to detain the victim, victim struggles and tries grabbing for the cop's weapon.

 

3 - This one.

 

I'll wait for the real facts to come out, but as of now I think people are over reacting, and once again turning this into a racism game. Yet, when the "knock out" game was on the news, you didn't see white victims protesting covering an eye or something to protest.

Correct. Let us wait for what will hopefully be unadulterated facts. But, there is one common thread in the various accounts (haven't heard the first one), the victim was shot multiple times while holding his hands above his head. I think the preliminary autopsy said he was shot 9 or 10 times.  

 

Regardless, what's going on there now seems utterly insane. Especially, if you watch some of the live feeds and read the accounts of the journalists that were arrested. St. Louis county Police have completely shut down the press. They have fired tear gas directly at reporters and camera ops. People are saying that most of what's going on is not and has not been televised. Those cops have referred to the situation as a warzone. Rifles are being squarely aimed at citizens. Military personnel have been tweeting, instagramming and whatever else about how they were less geared up in an actual warzone.

 

Whether it's racial or not, who knows? But, there have been three unarmed, young, black men killed by police within the last 5 days. Michael Brown (Ferguson, MO), Ezell Ford (Los Angeles, CA), John Crawford (Dayton, OH).  

 

And, I'm not sure the "Knockout Game" is a good comparison. The victims of those attacks were of varying ethnicities, and fortunately none of them died. Not to mention, there's not a 100+ year legacy of the Knockout Game like there is for police brutality/murder against black citizens. So, a few victims of some idiot kids, chosen at random, wouldn't really accomplish anything by protesting as it's not as endemic.

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DocM

In incidents like this one of the first victims is the truth. Hopefully a prowl car, security or ATM cam has footage. After that, forensics. Sadly, most every study shows that eyewitness testimony isn't always very reliable.

Until something solid is documented and witness interviews are reviewed for contradictions or parallels everyone needs to chill, but with the Sharptons of the world already circling that's probably not going to happen.

One report on our news said people were coming in from surrounding communities to loot, not protest. Blood vampires.

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theyarecomingforyou

If the officer followed him and shot him while he had his arms above his head and posed no threat then that's murder.

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Lord Method Man

Correct. Let us wait for what will hopefully be unadulterated facts.

 

Heed your own advice. There's no need for this discussion at this point since very little is known. Let investigators do their jobs.

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macrosslover

If the officer followed him and shot him while he had his arms above his head and posed no threat then that's murder.

standard training in law enforcement is if somebody grabs your gun, you shoot them period.  They can turn around, whatever, you still shoot them, because they made it a deadly force situation when they made their intentions by grabbing your gun.  Now obviously in this case, if that happened and the officer shot him the first time I'd say he was right.  However if the eyewitnesses are to be believed and the victim ran away, gave up some distance away, who knows exactly how far but let's say a significant distance from the officer, then it would extremely hard to prove that you still needed to shoot him in that instance.

 

That training is mostly meant for close quarters combat.  Even if that person doesn't have a gun, if you are in a close quarters fight and he grabs your gun you can articulate killing him dead if you can reach your gun.  From what I've heard the stories released so far don't seem like they favor the police officer's version.  The victim's friend admitted that after the officer told them to get out of the street (walking down the middle of the street) they didn't because they were close to their house.  The friend alleges the officer drove back down, almost hitting the victim and then when he opened the door, he opened it against the victim which caused the door to slam back, which made him think the guy was fighting.

 

Whatever happens I can guarantee you that the community is not going to be happy with the outcome, regardless of what it ends up being.  The problem with a story like this is the police let the public and the media fuel the fire and raise tensions, instead of fully explaining their side.  They likely could say we have video footage proving our officer was right or they could say we have evidence proving the officer lied.  Either one would calm some of the tensions.

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Hurmoth

Curiously enough I too was waiting for our American friends in particular to post this topic. Now that you've posted it I'd love to hear what they have to say about it.

I'm not sure what there is to say.

 

A community made up of 70% black, while the police department is 90% white. The odds are it was a white cop, shooting an unarmed black teenager. That sort of says it all.

 

Then add on the fact they won't name the cop, although if it was a white citizen who shot a black citizen, the name would be all over the front page, says they're protecting their own. They are violating the rights of the people and the press: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2014/08/13/washington-post-reporter-arrested-in-ferguson/

 

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http://boingboing.net/2014/08/14/video-of-ferguson-police-gassi.html

http://boingboing.net/2014/08/13/ferguson-protesters-hold-peac.html

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Salgoth

I'm not sure what there is to say.

 

A community made up of 70% black, while the police department is 90% white. The odds are it was a white cop, shooting an unarmed black teenager. That sort of says it all.

 

Then add on the fact they won't name the cop, although if it was a white citizen who shot a black citizen, the name would be all over the front page, says they're protecting their own. They are violating the rights of the people and the press: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2014/08/13/washington-post-reporter-arrested-in-ferguson/

 

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http://boingboing.net/2014/08/14/video-of-ferguson-police-gassi.html

http://boingboing.net/2014/08/13/ferguson-protesters-hold-peac.html

 

No, actually they only cleared the lower airspace for law enforcement.  News crews can still film above 3000' and that's no big deal for their cameras.  No news here.

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techbeck

I love how whenever a white person shoots a black person, it is racism and violence normally is the result.  Then you have Jessie Jackson making statements and holding rally's.  It is never a mistake or an accident, it is racism.  And when a white person gets shot/injured...all you hear is crickets.  Racism happens with every race. I  have been in Mexico with my sister who speaks Spanish fluently and you would be surprised what they say about Americans.  Depending on where you are at in the world, you can and will be the subject of racism.  This case however has nothing to do with racism.  Just an excuse for a bunch of ######ing morons who have no idea to act and be human to loot, steal, and make a situation even worse than what it was.  The people who are looting are worse than the cop that shot the kid.  And speaking of the cop, his name should not be released as all it will do is fuel these people, and give them more excuses, to do violence.

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+Eternal Tempest

The news about the protests, two reporters arrest in a McDonalds for not "leaving fast enough" (and released when the chief of police was informed of what happened) been undercurrent of information on Reddit past few days.

I was wonder when main stream was going to stop ignoring it. 

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Hurmoth

No, actually they only cleared the lower airspace for law enforcement.  News crews can still film above 3000' and that's no big deal for their cameras.  No news here.

You're clearly missing the point. :rolleyes: 

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macrosslover

You're clearly missing the point. :rolleyes:

they requested they shut down the air space because they said their police helicopter was being shot at.  They didn't request to shut it down just for the hell of it.

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Hurmoth

they requested they shut down the air space because they said their police helicopter was being shot at.  They didn't request to shut it down just for the hell of it.

So they claim. They also claim that Brown assaulted the police officer and pushed him into the car, which contradicts eyewitness accounts. I trust the cops like I trust a hungry lion not to eat me.

 

I would like to point out that the police also said no helicopters were hit, so there's absolutely no proof to their claims that they were "shot at." How convenient. I guess whatever a cop says must be gospel, right?

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Dashel

They have lost over two dozen cars, been shot at, had rocks and Molotov's thrown at them.  Can't also forget the riots and looting on the first night that prompted such steps.  Then again, I don't think sending paramilitary units using broad tactics like tear gas and dogs into residential areas under threat of martial law is wise.  Two cops almost got shot last night sneaking through a resident's backyard.

 

I disagree with the need to release the cop's name.  The FBI being on the case should be sufficient, so I think Anonymous is once again showing they can't use their power intelligently.

 

Its getting hot in the Lou.  Lets be clear though, this isn't just about just this shooting, but a long line of racist behavior by the pigs.  Silent suffering can only last so long, don't mistake it for peace.

 

 

A riot can be many things.

It can be an act of communal madness, reflecting the emotional imbecility of those who believe the best way to express joy at their ball team's win is to overturn a car.

It can be an act of opportunism, a chance, under cover of darkness, influence of chaos, suspension of order, to smash and grab and run away, arms heavy with loot.

And it can be an act of outcry, a scream of inchoate rage.

That's what happened this week in Ferguson, Missouri. The people screamed.

To believe that this carnage -- the windows smashed, the buildings torched, the tear gas wafting -- is all about the killing of Michael Brown is to miss the point.

 

http://www.mercurynews.com/opinion/ci_26336297/leonard-pitts-jr-meaning-missouri-riots

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Ironman273

So they claim. They also claim that Brown assaulted the police officer and pushed him into the car, which contradicts eyewitness accounts. I trust the cops like I trust a hungry lion not to eat me.

 

I would like to point out that the police also said no helicopters were hit, so there's absolutely no proof to their claims that they were "shot at." How convenient. I guess whatever a cop says must be gospel, right?

You're playing a game of he-said-she-said.  You've obviously picked a side and want to stick to it.

 

Frankly it seems like there are extremely biased witnesses, which I wouldn't believe, against cops who are known to protect their own, which I wouldn't believe.   There needs to be some credible evidence as to the events that happened.  I've seen way too many criminals being made into "innocent bystanders" when shot and way too many cops who've lost their head made into "officers doing their job"

 

On the flip side the riots that have started are ridiculous.  Hurting the businesses in the area just because.  It's a mob mentality that they are taking advantage of plain and simple.  It's never a case of "I'm so upset about what happened that I just have to break this window and take this TV home."

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Hurmoth

They have lost over two dozen cars, been shot at, had rocks and Molotov's thrown at them.  Can't also forget the riots and looting on the first night that prompted such steps.  Then again, I don't think sending paramilitary units using broad tactics like tear gas and dogs into residential areas under threat of martial law is wise.  Two cops almost got shot last night sneaking through a resident's backyard.

 

I disagree with the need to release the cop's name.  The FBI being on the case should be sufficient, so I think Anonymous is once again showing they can't use their power intelligently.

 

Its getting hot in the Lou.  Lets be clear though, this isn't just about just this shooting, but a long line of racist behavior by the pigs.  Silent suffering can only last so long, don't mistake it for peace.

If a white civilian had shot a black teenager (Trayvon Martin comes to mind) and the cops refused to release their name, would you feel the same?

 

 

The cops have lost control because they weren't transparent to begin with.

 

You're playing a game of he-said-she-said.  You've obviously picked a side and want to stick to it.

 

Frankly it seems like there are extremely biased witnesses, which I wouldn't believe, against cops who are known to protect their own, which I wouldn't believe.   There needs to be some credible evidence as to the events that happened.  I've seen way too many criminals being made into "innocent bystanders" when shot and way too many cops who've lost their head made into "officers doing their job"

 

On the flip side the riots that have started are ridiculous.  Hurting the businesses in the area just because.  It's a mob mentality that they are taking advantage of plain and simple.  It's never a case of "I'm so upset about what happened that I just have to break this window and take this TV home."

Transparency. I automatically side against the cops when they refuse to be transparent. Cops should be held to a higher standard and when they refuse to be transparent, bring in militarized police force, violate the rights of peaceful protestors and the press, it drives a wedge further between the police and civilians and encourages the behavior of violence to get answers.

 

I do NOT support looting. But I do support those who are demanding answers, even if it comes at the price of destroying police vehicles and police property.

 

"People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people." -V

 

"There are of course those who do not want us to speak. I suspect even now, orders are being shouted into telephones, and men with guns will soon be on their way. Why? Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission." -V

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Dashel

If a white civilian had shot a black teenager (Trayvon Martin comes to mind) and the cops refused to release their name, would you feel the same?

I wouldn't, as civilians are a different matter.  It has already been shown that there may be a clear systemic problem in that police department, so I would judge the entire unit more than the cop who pulled the trigger.  This isn't just about one shooting.  Even if he went crazy, as it appears he did out of rage from being assaulted, he's still acting on behalf of the state with apparently a standing order to harass black men.  (Don't you love that drug war)

 

A civilian like Martin was clearly told he isn't one of those people.

 

I do agree more transparency was needed here, just not necessarily the naming of the cop. (More damning that he so quickly 1) left the scene 2) didn't initially call for an ambulance etc).

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Dot Matrix

Anon is a bunch of 12 year old idiots.

 

 

If a white civilian had shot a black teenager (Trayvon Martin comes to mind) and the cops refused to release their name, would you feel the same?

Zimmerman wasn't a cop. The police have been doing their own internal investigation. For his safety, yes, they'll withhold the name.

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Wyn6

Heed your own advice. There's no need for this discussion at this point since very little is known. Let investigators do their jobs.

You're right. We should refrain from ever discussing any topic ever until all the facts are in. Because, we also know that ALL the facts always come out in every case. So, that's it, folks. Discussion's over. Everybody go home. ;)

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Wyn6

I can only agree with about 10% of what he said. He talks about change, but offers no suggestions on how to change. Change how, sir? What is it that Blacks need to change in this Utopia of ours? Then he throws out blanket statements, and racist similes likening Blacks to apes and monkeys? Please.

 

His "epic rant", as you put it, shows his ignorance. It shows that he lacks a certain fundamental understanding of the world we live in. This is an individual that needs to educate himself, badly.

 

TL;DR Yeah, right.

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