guns;accidents Girl, 9, kills Arizona shooting instructor with Uzi in accident

[ctebah]

Why?  They go through the same training as anyone else and most are responsible like most adults are.  An Uzi is to extreme and should not have happened.

 

Seriously?  There are numerious things that kids lack in.  They don't have the physical strenght to handle something like this, the knowledge to know how dangerous this is, and here's the IMPORTANT part: they don't have the MENTAL capacity to deal if something goes wrong.

 

Driving cars, shooting guns, smoking, drinking....just a few of many things that kids are NOT meant to do.

[techbeck]

Seriously?  There are numerious things that kids lack in.  They don't have the physical strenght to handle something like this, the knowledge to know how dangerous this is, and here's the IMPORTANT part: they don't have the MENTAL capacity to deal if something goes wrong.

 

Again, I dont agree with an Uzi but there are weapon that are not that heavy or difficult to handle.  Kinds younger than 9yrs old have gotten a hold of their parents guns and shot someone.  And I would rather have my kid know how to handle a weapon, know and understand what it can do, then come upon it one day and decide to play cops and robbers with his friends.  Kids are more than capable understanding what a gun is and what it can do.  The only issue here is that the instructor let her handle a fully automatic weapon, which cost him his life and was his mistake.  Not whether or not kids should be handling other types of weapons.  You want to debate guns rights and usage, there is a dedicated thread for that.

 

Edit:  And each kid is different.  Some shouldn't handle guns are all.  Just like some adults.  But like adults, kids can be and are just as responsible and should go through the same training.

[ctebah]

Again, I dont agree with an Uzi but there are weapon that are not that heavy or difficult to handle.  Kinds younger than 9yrs old have gotten a hold of their parents guns and shot someone.  And I would rather have my kid know how to handle a weapon, know and understand what it can do, then come upon it one day and decide to play cops and robbers with his friends.  Kids are more than capable understanding what a gun is and what it can do.  The only issue here is that the instructor let her handle a fully automatic weapon, which cost him his life and was his mistake.  Not whether or not kids should be handling other types of weapons.  You want to debate guns rights and usage, there is a dedicated thread for that.

 

No they are not.  You cannot generalize kids this way, it's what makes them kids.  They are unpredictable in their actions and emotions.  We can teach them numerious things but not being an adult is what will determine how they act in the end.  Yes, we have all seen kids that can handle guns and cars and farm equipment but that's nowhere near the majority of kids.  Kids should not be allowed near any weapons, the only thing that they should be taught is that weapons are BAD.  You can find stories of veteran cops and military personel having accidents with weapons yet we are supposed to believe that kids can be trained to handle weapons?  That's ridiculous. 

[techbeck]

No they are not.  You cannot generalize kids this way, it's what makes them kids.  They are unpredictable in their actions and emotions.  We can teach them numerious things but not being an adult is what will determine how they act in the end.  Yes, we have all seen kids that can handle guns and cars and farm equipment but that's nowhere near the majority of kids.  Kids should not be allowed near any weapons, the only thing that they should be taught is that weapons are BAD.  You can find stories of veteran cops and military personel having accidents with weapons yet we are supposed to believe that kids can be trained to handle weapons?  That's ridiculous. 

 

Obvious you have no experience with kids handling guns or know any kids that do. Thats cool, but not the case for a lot of others out there.  Anyway, I made my point. You have your opinion, cool.  I am just going by what I have seen and experienced.

[trag3dy]

No they are not.  You cannot generalize kids this way, it's what makes them kids.  They are unpredictable in their actions and emotions.  We can teach them numerious things but not being an adult is what will determine how they act in the end.  Yes, we have all seen kids that can handle guns and cars and farm equipment but that's nowhere near the majority of kids.  Kids should not be allowed near any weapons, the only thing that they should be taught is that weapons are BAD.  You can find stories of veteran cops and military personel having accidents with weapons yet we are supposed to believe that kids can be trained to handle weapons?  That's ridiculous. 

 

Yes they are. As a child I was around guns a lot. So has every child in my family. Guess what. None of us ever killed anyone. The people around us taught us how to respect guns and as a child we understood.

 

Kids shoot guns every day in America. You rarely ever hear about them killing people. The only reason this one is news is because the dumbass "instructor" thought the girl could handle something she couldn't.

 

Please note I'm not saying all kids could or should be able to handle an Uzi. I wouldn't even feel comfortable shooting one as an adult as they are hard to control for the fully trained.  .22 caliber rifle for example, which is what we started out shooting as kids, has very little kickback and what she should have been shooting.

[ctebah]

Obvious you have no experience with kids handling guns or know any kids that do. Thats cool, but not the case for a lot of others out there.  Anyway, I made my point. You have your opinion, cool.  I am just going by what I have seen and experienced.

 

I do, and it's maybe, just maybe, why I said this:

 

 

Yes, we have all seen kids that can handle guns and cars and farm equipment but that's nowhere near the majority of kids.

[techbeck]

I do, and it's maybe, just maybe, why I said this:

 

Must not have been a good experience then.  Either way, I am done arguing this.  Just another thread to scrutinize Americans and to make cracks at them. 

[ctebah]

 

Kids shoot guns every day in America. You rarely ever hear about them killing people. The only reason this one is news is because the dumbass "instructor" thought the girl could handle something she couldn't.

 

No, you certainly don't, but you hear about things like these:

 

 

Bullying victims are sneaking hundreds of thousands of firearms, knives and clubs into U.S. high schools, according to a chilling new analysis that carries the eerie echoes of one recent mass school assault and two potential near misses.

 

Recently there have been more reports like these.  A kid can be trained to use a gun but they lack the judgement and the morality to know when to use it and how it can hurt them or those around them. 

 

I was around weapons since I was a kid, it's a custom in Balkan countries to fire weapons on New Years eve.  I was firing Ak 47's before I had my first girlfriend.  But to argue that kids should be around weapons or trained how to use them is a silly argument.  We should be protecting children from things that kill us, not training them how to use it properly. 

 

There is one thing you can't argue against, and its if you teach a kid NEVER to be near weapons, they will ALWAYS have a smaller chance of hurting someone than kids that are trained how to handle weapons.

[trag3dy]

No, you certainly don't, but you hear about things like these:

 

 

Recently there have been more reports like these.  A kid can be trained to use a gun but they lack the judgement and the morality to know when to use it and how it can hurt them or those around them. 

 

I was around weapons since I was a kid, it's a custom in Balkan countries to fire weapons on New Years eve.  I was firing Ak 47's before I had my first girlfriend.  But to argue that kids should be around weapons or trained how to use them is a silly argument.  We should be protecting children from things that kill us, not training them how to use it properly. 

 

There is one thing you can't argue against, and its if you teach a kid NEVER to be near weapons, they will ALWAYS have a smaller chance of hurting someone than kids that are trained how to handle weapons.

 

You seem to be confused. Saying kids can be trained to use and respect firearms is not the same as saying kids should be allowed free access to firearms.

 

There's nothing wrong with kids shooting guns when they are closely supervised by adults. Giving them access to guns whenever they feel like it is a completely different story. 

 

I'll just reiterate that this idiot giving the girl a fully loaded and fully automatic Uzi was not one of those regular situations I'm talking about. This is an extreme example where lots of questions need to asked.

[Xilo]

Why in the hell was the instructor letting a 9 year old girl handle a freaking Uzi?

 

Darwin Award winner of the year right here folks!

[ctebah]

You seem to be confused. Saying kids can be trained to use and respect firearms is not the same as saying kids should be allowed free access to firearms.

 

There's nothing wrong with kids shooting guns when they are closely supervised by adults. Giving them access to guns whenever they feel like it is a completely different story. 

 

I'll just reiterate that this idiot giving the girl a fully loaded and fully automatic Uzi was not one of those regular situations I'm talking about. This is an extreme example where lots of questions need to asked.

 

That's what I'm saying, this is a perfect example of when things go bad.  Yes, some kids can be taught how to handle and fire weapons, but there will always be scenarios when things go bad.  That's why I brought up the example of veteran police officers and military personel beig involved in accidents. 

 

Accidents will always happen, no matter how responsible the adults may be.  And there will be situations when kids shoot either one another or their parents.  My main argument rests with the fact that kids cannot deal with the mental responsibility of such accidents.  They simple can't. 

 

I'm a perfect driver, never had an accident or a speeding ticket but if one day there was an accident and someone died, I could deal with it mentaly.  Now put a kid in my place, where they are perfect driver, never been in accidents, and then one day the accidentaly strike and kill someone.  They would be mentaly destroyed, unable to cope with situations we adults can.  That's the big difference. 

 

I would rather no kid ever handle weapons until they are old enough, rather than teach them how to handle them and hope no accidents ever happen.

[trag3dy]

Kids are a lot more resilient than you give them credit for.

[dead.cell]

Instructor..... giving girl a 9 year old Uzi, am I reading this right?

 

Don't mean to be rude, but it seems like life sorted itself out. :ermm:

[Rohdekill]

Other than common sense.

 

Do they vote?

Do they drive?

Do they operate site machinery?

 

No, all common sense.  But weapons, sure go right ahead.  IT'S OUR RIGHTS! #Whatever

 

Sure, have your little nonsense gun laws, I'm not even gonna go down the same tired argument... But come on, giving a kid a deadly (case in point) weapon is ridiculous.  Make an age limit as per other common sense laws.

You mean other than the hundreds of thousands of kids who DROVE farm machinery and OPERATED complex farm machinery throughout generations, right?  Oh...those same kids also hunted with weapons.

 

Not saying you're wrong about a little girl needing to handle an automatic weapon, but you might want to rethink your statement.

[Guest]

Why the ###### do Uzis even exist? They certainly are NOT used for hunting, so there is no point for them to exist anywhere outside war places.

[trag3dy]

Why the ###### do Uzis even exist? They certainly are NOT used for hunting, so there is no point for them to exist anywhere outside war places.

 

You kind of answered your own question. As for why they thought it was a good idea to let a 9 year old girl have one fully loaded? Seems like that's the question of the hour.

 

Stupidity killed the instructor as much as the gun did.

[DocM]

Even with training it is still stupid. There is a reason why kids are not allowed to drive cars.

>

I had my farm-kid drivers license at 12 and was driving a deuce and a half (2.5 ton) truck to market etc., implements etc. almost daily during the growing season.

I hunted deer on my own (nearest hunting partner >1/2 mile away) at the same age with bow, shotgun (slugs) and high-power rifle.

Michigan allows "mentored hunters" under 10 with immediate supervision. No minimum age. I know 2 kids who took their first deer at 8.

http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-153-10363_58977---,00.html

And a 5 year old Arkansas girl took a mammoth international record (antler score) opening day 400lb deer last fall.

[spenser.d]

I had my farm-kid drivers license at 12 and was driving a deuce and a half (2.5 ton) truck to market etc., implements etc. almost daily during the growing season.

I hunted deer on my own (nearest hunting partner >1/2 mile away) at the same age with bow, shotgun (slugs) and high-power rifle.

Michigan allows "mentored hunters" under 10 with immediate supervision. No minimum age. I know 2 kids who took their first deer at 8.

http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-153-10363_58977---,00.html

And a 5 year old Arkansas girl took a mammoth international record (antler score) opening day 400lb deer last fall.

None of that makes it okay to allow kids to handle weapons.

But I guess this man's life (and every other who dies in child related gun accidents) doesn't matter as long as you get to keep using guns however you want.

[Tomo]

Why the ###### do Uzis even exist? They certainly are NOT used for hunting, so there is no point for them to exist anywhere outside war places.

Even then it's questionable.

[+InsaneNutter MVC]

So she can legally get lesson's firing a submachine gun, yet she couldn't even go in a shop and buy an "Everyone 10+" rated game / movie  :/

 

Totally messed up laws and parenting, no excuses.

[techbeck]

I had my farm-kid drivers license at 12 and was driving a deuce and a half (2.5 ton) truck to market etc., implements etc. almost daily during the growing season.

I hunted deer on my own (nearest hunting partner >1/2 mile away) at the same age with bow, shotgun (slugs) and high-power rifle.

Michigan allows "mentored hunters" under 10 with immediate supervision. No minimum age. I know 2 kids who took their first deer at 8.

http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-153-10363_58977---,00.html

And a 5 year old Arkansas girl took a mammoth international record (antler score) opening day 400lb deer last fall.

 

Yea, I don't see the problem.  I know a few kids who i would trust more handling a weapon than some adults I know.  Sounds like most of the people not understanding kids and guns are not from the US.  Lots of kids grow up around them and it is common place/second nature to them.  Now, if you were from a country that was the opposite, then I can see others point.  Then there are kids that shouldnt touch a weapon a well as adults.

[spenser.d]

Yea, I don't see the problem.  I know a few kids who i would trust more handling a weapon than some adults I know.  Sounds like most of the people not understanding kids and guns are not from the US.  Lots of kids grow up around them and it is common place/second nature to them.  Now, if you were from a country that was the opposite, then I can see others point.  Then there are kids that shouldnt touch a weapon a well as adults.

 

I'm from the US, from a state where a lot of kids do use guns early because they start hunting early and that it's been going on for so long doesn't make it okay. And anyway, those kids you trust using guns eventually turn into those adults you don't trust using guns.

 

I don't think that you get the point - it's not being that kids shouldn't use guns (though arguably there's no reason for them to), but that our gun culture in general is insane, which leads to accidents like this far more often than it leads to any sort of good outcome of said culture.

[FloatingFatMan]

I don't think that you get the point - it's not being that kids shouldn't use guns (though arguably there's no reason for them to), but that our gun culture in general is insane, which leads to accidents like this far more often than it leads to any sort of good outcome of said culture.

 

If there's one thing we non-American's DO get, it's that your gun culture is insane! :p

[Shiranui]

Oh dear, what the **** is going through peeps heads giving a 9yo kid such a weapon, even to hold, let alone loaded.

A round of bullets?

[DocM]

None of that makes it okay to allow kids to handle weapons.

But I guess this man's life (and every other who dies in child related gun accidents) doesn't matter as long as you get to keep using guns however you want.

Guess you missed the post where I called the instructor etc. stupid for allowing her to shoot a machine gun?

Properly supervised and trained, with proper type selection (absent here), there's nothing wrong with teaching proper forearms use and safety.