us Judge Effectively Decriminalizes Polygamy in Utah

[FloatingFatMan]

The RFRA only codified what is in the Constitution, and since it takes 3/4 of the states to amend the Constitution it isn't changing soon. It's only been amended 27 times in 227 years, and one was a repeal. The 27th amendment took 202 years for enough states to ratify it.

Not only that, but with the Free Exercise Clause being part of the Bill of Rights (first 10 amendments) there is a much, much higher resistance to changing it.

 

I'm not saying it will be changed, merely that the current state of affairs is such that religious groups are not treated equally under the law, and that's unfair to everyone else.

 

What makes religions so special that they deserve preferential treatment?

[DocM]

I'm not saying it will be changed, merely that the current state of affairs is such that religious groups are not treated equally under the law, and that's unfair to everyone else.

What makes religions so special that they deserve preferential treatment?

The Colonies were largely founded by people who came here for religious liberty, largely because of persecution by you Europeans, and the US founding documents reflect that.

The Mennonites came here because they were being exterminated. Others were persecuted in other ways or driven out. Even today persecuted religious people like the Assyrian/Chaldean/Syriacs and Copts come here for refuge. The Copts are largely in NY, NJ, Florida and California, but are in most states. Michigan has a large Assyrian/Chaldean/Syriac community.

[MikeChipshop Member]

Imagine the monthlies... :s

At least they'd synchronize... right? ;)

[DocM]

At least they'd synchronize... right? ;)

Don't remind me. Imagine having a wife, daughter and daughter in law under the roof for a couple of years and all of them having PMS at once :whistle:

[MorganX]

I'm not saying it will be changed, merely that the current state of affairs is such that religious groups are not treated equally under the law, and that's unfair to everyone else.

 

What makes religions so special that they deserve preferential treatment?

 

All religions are treated equally under the law. Including atheism. I'm not pro polygamy, but the recourse here is to expose polygamy as a sexual and social arrangement and "not" a religious practice. The problems aren't our laws or religious protections, but rather the definition of the practice of polygamy.

[FloatingFatMan]

^ Clarification: Atheism is not a religion.

[Lamp0]

^ Clarification: Atheism is not a religion.

 

No special treatment for you then.

[FloatingFatMan]

No special treatment for you then.

 

Ever thought that maybe that's why religions getting special treatment annoys me so much? Why should loonies who believe in invisible sky fairies get special treatment? Especially when, as far as I'm concerned, they should just be getting treatment... In a mental hospital.

[MorganX]

^ Clarification: Atheism is not a religion.

 

Atheism is the belief that there are no deities.

 

Religion:

• A religion is an organized collection of beliefs, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to an order of existence.
• a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies

Therefore, atheism is a religion. Atheist try to squirm around this by saying Atheism is not a belief that there is not god or deity, it is a lack of belief in one. They "believe" in the lack of belief of a god or deity. It is a religion as far as I'm concerned.

[FloatingFatMan]

Atheism is the belief that there are no deities.

 

Religion:

• A religion is an organized collection of beliefs, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to an order of existence.
• a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies

Therefore, atheism is a religion. Atheist try to squirm around this by saying Atheism is not a belief that there is not god or deity, it is a lack of belief in one. They "believe" in the lack of belief of a god or deity. It is a religion as far as I'm concerned.

 

Y'know, I really get sick of explaining this...

 

Here we go again.

 

Atheism is a lack of belief in god, it is NOT, and never has been, a belief in the non-existence of god.

 

The two are NOT the same, so no, there is no squirming.

 

Atheism is no more a religion than NOT collecting stamps is a hobby.  No amount of self-delusion on your part will alter that in any way, shape or form.

[epk]

Just reflecting the science, and the societal influences polygamy has if it becomes widespread. This study isn't the only one showing similar results.

http://dx.doi.org/10.1098/rstb.2011.0290

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/01/120124093142.htm

 

I'm guessing people who live alone have even less intra-household problems! :D

 

Just because it happened doesn't mean it is right, correct? Do you mean to tell me everyone in the Bible is a perfect example of what God wants? Check out Numbers 31:17-18, Moses in response to polygamy with slaves felt a need to purify the Israelites, probably not the way God would have done it, but it shows the deep respect needed for one man and one women in marriage. So yes, the problem with polygamy is it is only for pleasure, not a true loving relationship. 

 

It happens many times in the bible, and not just with common people but ones in power as well. If it was that bad, God could've said something. Not like he kept back on other topics :)

[Stoffel]

Y'know, I really get sick of explaining this...

 

Here we go again.

 

Atheism is a lack of belief in god, it is NOT, and never has been, a belief in the non-existence of god.

 

The two are NOT the same, so no, there is no squirming.

 

Atheism is no more a religion than NOT collecting stamps is a hobby.  No amount of self-delusion on your part will alter that in any way, shape or form.

 

HAHAHAHA

 

What are your hobbies? NOT collection stamps!

 

This made my day.

 

I do agree with what you say though

[taim]

HAHAHAHA

 

What are your hobbies? NOT collection stamps!

 

This made my day.

 

I do agree with what you say though

Best hobby ever is not collecting stamps, so much free time.

[DocM]

Y'know, I really get sick of explaining this...

Here we go again.

Atheism is a lack of belief in god, it is NOT, and never has been, a belief in the non-existence of god.

The two are NOT the same, so no, there is no squirming.

Sounds more like a definition of agnostic, not atheist.

Atheism is no more a religion than NOT collecting stamps is a hobby. No amount of self-delusion on your part will alter that in any way, shape or form.

And here is where many atheists, while professing not acting like a religion, exhibitt evangelism and treat believers the way some radical religions treat apostates. Doesn't really help make your case.

A few items from Pew Research Center's FactTank on US atheists, agnostics etc.

1) when asked about their religious identity, 2.4% of American adults report they are atheists.

2) 19.6% in the US are unaffiliated with a particular religion, but 68% of these report they are theists. (Probably many go to the numerous non-denominational churches.)

3) 14% of those who call themselves atheists, and 56% of agnostics, also say they believe in God or a universal spirit. There goes the 2.4% figure.

5) 82% of atheists and agnostics report they seldom or never pray (which means at least 18% do pray.)

Sounds like you guys have some apostates in the ranks to hunt down.

[Ian S.]

While Atheism in itself is a lack of belief in God, sacred texts, religious acts of kindness, the people who believe in Atheism must have faith in order to believe there is no God. As I understand, when you believe that something is true, you put hope and trust in that idea, correct?

[mudslag]

While Atheism in itself is a lack of belief in God, sacred texts, religious acts of kindness, the people who believe in Atheism must have faith in order to believe there is no God. As I understand, when you believe that something is true, you put hope and trust in that idea, correct?

 

 

Atheism is the lack of belief in a god, period. Sacred text and the behavior of the religious has nothing do with atheism, beliefs or lack there of. Do you have faith there isn't a flying pink unicorn behind you or do you just lack the belief in flying pink unicorns? I don't believe in flying pink unicorns, I don't need to put hope and trust that the belief is right. 

[Ian S.]

Atheism is the lack of belief in a god, period. Sacred text and the behavior of the religious has nothing do with atheism, beliefs or lack there of. Do you have faith there isn't a flying pink unicorn behind you or do you just lack the belief in flying pink unicorns? I don't believe in flying pink unicorns, I don't need to put hope and trust that the belief is right. 

I do trust that when I turn around there will be no flying pink unicorn in the house. However, keeping an open mind (unlike most Atheiststhat don't want to hear anything any religious person has to say) that if there was a unicorn behind me I would have to revise my faith in what I believed to be true. 

[mudslag]

I do trust that when I turn around there will be no flying pink unicorn in the house. However, keeping an open mind (unlike most Atheiststhat don't want to hear anything any religious person has to say) that if there was a unicorn behind me I would have to revise my faith in what I believed to be true. 

 

 

Do you believe that there are flying pink unicorns? As for revising faith/belief, Im more then open to examining evidence of a god, if and when there ever is any. Just like a flying pink unicorn, there is a complete lack of evidence to even begin that process. 

 

As for the statement in bold, Id like to see what evidence you have to support that claim. As an atheist, Im more then open to hear anything you or any other believer has to say. 

[compl3x]

Sounds more like a definition of agnostic, not atheist.

 

 

No. That's not even close to the definition of agnostic. Agnosticism deals with knowledge. You can be an agnostic theist: You can't know god exists, but you believe one or more does. If you're a gnostic theist, you claim to know and believe one or more exists. If you are an agnostic atheist, you can't know there is no god, but hold no belief there is one. If you were a gnostic atheist you'd claim to know there is no god.

 

Agnostic has unfortunately been altered to mean "kind of unsure, hasn't definitely decided either way, sitting on the fence" - it's none of those things.

 

 

And here is where many atheists, while professing not acting like a religion, exhibitt evangelism and treat believers the way some radical religions treat apostates. Doesn't really help make your case.

 

Do you honestly have any idea what religious zealots do to apostates? Shunning, ostracise, imprisonment, beatings, executions. Religious folk seem to think having to deal with atheism at all is like the thousands of years of persecution and mistreatment religious folk have applied to the non-religious. Not even remotely comparable.

 

As far as evangelising goes: I've never experienced an atheist trying to convert me, knocking on my door, subverting or manipulating the government for favourable treatment simply because they were an atheist, etc. Nor have I as an atheist ever done those things.

 

Everyone who engages in this discussion does so because they want to. Trust me, theologians worldwide are loving the resurgence of atheism. No one gave them the time of day before, now they are enjoying a level of attention they'd never thought possible. 

 

 

 

3) 14% of those who call themselves atheists, and 56% of agnostics, also say they believe in God or a universal spirit. 

 

 

Then they don't understand the definitions. People calling themselves agnostic probably use it in the sense I explained above. Honestly, ask most people to define agnosticism and they won't be able to. Most people think it is "undecided" or "not sure". It isn't.

 

 

 

There goes the 2.4% figure. 

 

Why it's important for you to prove there are no atheists is strange and, frankly, pretty insulting. I don't understand theistic thinking but I don't doubt people believe in the things they say they do.

[compl3x]

(unlike most Atheists that don't want to hear anything any religious person has to say)  

 

Except:

 

A). Many atheists were once religious. Sometimes very observantly so.

 

B). Many atheists writers and thinkers have engaged with religious counterparts, sometimes for decades.

 

C). Atheists and agnostics, ... are among the highest-scoring groups on a new survey of religious knowledge, outperforming evangelical Protestants, mainline Protestants and Catholics on questions about the core teachings, history and leading figures of major world religions.

 

 

So yeah, kind of hard to defend the argument we're all turning a deaf ear to what religious folk say.

[Shiranui]

A woman should not have to share the attention of her husband.

[mudslag]

A woman should not have to share the attention of her husband.

 

 

What if they want to? 

[+hedleigh Subscriber²]

Just a quick question. Are women able to have multiple husbands or is it another one way street?

[Krome]

Now I can marry my cousins.

 

Too right, too! I don't trust anyone who hides their face. For all I know, they're making rude faces at me!

 

Several women told me they stick their tounge out at you. ;)

 

No special treatment for you then.

 

LOL too many comedian on Neowin :)

 

[compl3x]

Just a quick question. Are women able to have multiple husbands or is it another one way street?

 

One women with more than one husband is called polyandry. Polyandry, however, seems to be pretty rare.