Linus Reviews HTC One M8 for Windows


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siah1214
According to that article it was removed because it didn't display ads and allowed users to download videos, both of which are against the T&C. I'd be surprised if it wasn't removed. Given how popular YouTube is Microsoft should have done everything in its power to work around Google's demands, as Apple has done.

Microsoft actually did remove the ability to download and the ability to skirt around content restrictions.  Google wasn't happy with that and basically said that they had to write the app in HTML5 (unlike the Youtube apps on Android and iOS) and forced them to take it down again. 

You can research it yourself, there's a lot of articles out there (including on Neowin) about the whole fiasco.  Sorry, Google was being a jerk here, no matter how you try to write it off that's the only legitimate explanation. They were and are anticompetitive when it comes to Windows Phone (they at one point blocked WP7 and 8 users from accessing maps.google.com, allegedly because they don't support webkit, even though they'd worked fine before) 

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ATLien_0

I'll agree on Google services. While I am perfectly happy with the current Google support the average consumer isn't nor do they know its mostly Google's fault. They will just blame Microsoft for lack of support, as well as other apps. 

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+warwagon

The funny thing is a lot of the apps people want are made by developers other than the company who's service they want to use. Because the company doesn't care enough to write an app for WP, so someone else has to do it for them.

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Dashel

Terrible review by your average Google-monkey, what a whiney douche.  Lets sweep the cloud issue under the rug and ignore how much better it integrates with a superior cloud (he pushed that under the rug early) to ###### and moan about what a n00b he is?  This is everything that is wrong with your average phone store 'advisor'.

 

The MS cloud is the advantage and their edge.  Your cloud should dictate your device not vice versa.  And once you have a better cloud, the need for 20 apps to do the same things is not only inefficient, it makes the fight over apps even more laughable to begin with.

 

At least he does highlight why the notification center is still a boneheaded idea for WP. 

 

An enthusiast phone? lol?

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Stokkolm

They have an almost 1:1 business model copy of iOS, but they are failing because they lack the historical advantage of iOS. Windows Phone offers a decent alternative to iOS users except they have to counter the reality that users have invested heavily in iOS content and they haven't convinced developers to target their platform first. They also locked the platform so much that they are almost always behind on trends. Like the restrictions mentioned in the video that prevent wearables for properly targeting Windows Phone if they wanted to at present, for instance. There was also the missing Bluetooth LE support that prevented things like the FitBit from coming out with Windows Phone support at the same time as iOS (I think this has been added now).

The review is about an HTC phone that runs Microsoft's OS, how can you say they have a 1:1 business model with Apple?

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+LogicalApex

The review is about an HTC phone that runs Microsoft's OS, how can you say they have a 1:1 business model with Apple?

I said "almost 1:1"... The only major departure from Apple with Windows Phone though is the inclusion of other OEMs besides MS. Although, with the dominance that Nokia/Microsoft has over Windows Phone sales I'm almost convinced that any third party Windows Phones are due to MS subsidizing them (for instance, MS may have given HTC a break on its "Android Licensing Fee" if they shipped the phone being discussed here).

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tsupersonic

Everyone keeps saying WP is severely lacking, but no one lists what? I get the apps are lacking. That's a real and serious problem for WP. But what about the OS is lacking? Is it lacking anything anyone actually cares about? If you have all the apps you personally want, is it "lacking"?

 

I know I'm a minority, but I prefer WP to the others. I use it because I like it most. The UI is super clean, easy to use, but powerful enough to customize to my own workflow. Its the goldilocks between the iPhone and Android. Like many users, I'm not really interested in Snapchat or Yo, or whatever the latest app we all install this week. I use my phone to communicate with people, SMS, calls, social stuff, twitter, FB, etc, banking and a few select apps. For the sake of the platform, yes, they need LOTS more developer support and something may come along at some point that I may wish I could have, but for now, I have what I need and I like that I can chose the phone UI I like best.

 

I have seen numerous articles lately where reviewers express that they love the UI of WP and its a real pleasure to use, but they cant recommend it, or cant use it themselves because its missing apps. That tells me there is something compelling about WP, but its just missing that one thing - apps. That may or may not be an issue for everyone. Its not for me, its not for my parents, its not for my inlaws, who got Android phones and haven't installed one single app in the six months since they got them.

My main reasons for not using WP, basic functionality like repeat message notifications are missing. On Android, I can replace the stock messaging app with something like GoSMS that gives me multitude of features and customizations.

 

Customizations in general are limited on WP, making folders on what is an otherwise cluttered "start" screen is a really inefficient way of viewing information. On Android, you can make your homescreenS (yes, plural), any way you want with widgets that provide actual information/content without delving into a specific app.

 

On Android, if the OS is lacking something, you have actual first party apps or even an excellent third party app selection. The so called "fart apps" are there are on every platform, but what is scary is that consumers on WP will fall for the "scam" apps that they think are official apps. People want apps, and you guys are thinking about app selection from an enthusiast perspective. That ultimately is the bottom line, because you can have the best phone hardware but without good software, you're not getting anywhere. 

 

I used to love the WP UI, but at a quick glance, Android gives you far more information and is just more efficient, imo.  

 

Also, don't pin me as a fanboy or hater. All these fanboy wars are just flat out stupid. Why someone pledges their allegiance to a specific company is beyond me. Look at how emotional people are in this thread, calling Linus names... I made all these points above for Android, yet, but I don't use an Android phone anymore. I want Windows Phone to succeed and be a true competitor, but MS has a long way to go, and many challenges to overcome.

 

Final points, no one is wrong - everyone has their needs on what a platform should/shouldn't do, hence why everyone uses different phones. Most importantly, at the end of the day, it's just a phone OS, and life is way too short to be arguing about which OS/product is better, so enjoy what you use!

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BajiRav

WP users: go and try an Android M8 before commenting (note UI completely customizable).

How is that even remotely relevant? :laugh:

 

 

I said "almost 1:1"... The only major departure from Apple with Windows Phone though is the inclusion of other OEMs besides MS. Although, with the dominance that Nokia/Microsoft has over Windows Phone sales I'm almost convinced that any third party Windows Phones are due to MS subsidizing them (for instance, MS may have given HTC a break on its "Android Licensing Fee" if they shipped the phone being discussed here).

Windows Phone is now priced at $0. HTC pays more to Microsoft for M8's Android variant.

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vcfan

Windows Phone has virtually no edge over Android or iOS platforms.

you guys keep grouping ios with android when criticizing windows phone. iPhone is soon about to be neighbors with windows phone in the sub 10% marketshare category. almost there, just need less than 2% and they are there.

but just off the top of my head, some edge windows phone posseses over android

runs faster and smoother

is more secure

has better battery life

is cheaper for OEMs

updates bypassing carriers

universal apps

has a phone called yezz billy

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George P

Being able to replace the stock apps is something I expect fully, I mean right now there's different "browsers" on WP, sure they all use the same IE11 engine in WP8.x BUT the UI is different and the feature sets are different.  Look at UC Browser for example.   You can also switch to using a different calendar app as well, there are alternatives to that to.  Really the only thing you can't not use is the sms/mms app and the phone dialer.  Those two things can't be changed, but people who want to switch the default SMS app and use something else, yeah, that's as niche and minor as you can get at this point.  Do people still use SMS that much?   I mean you have all the other social and IM apps on there, FB, whatsapp and so on.   SMS is dead or close to it, otherwise the carriers wouldn't be giving out so much free SMS as part of their plans.  :P

 

As far as some other little things missing in the OS, with uservoice doing it's thing and MS speeding up updating of WP, I expect lots of the little things to make their way in there soon.   Expect update 2 to hit preview next month or early November I'd say.

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simplezz

This is why Windows Phone fails. What's funny is all the fanboys saying it has reached feature parity with Android/iOS :laugh:

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simplezz

Microsoft actually did remove the ability to download and the ability to skirt around content restrictions.

Only after releasing it and being threatened with legal consequences. Microsoft knew when it was writing the app that it broke the Youtube T&C, yet it went ahead with it anyway. MS thinks it deserves special treatment like we're back in the 90's and it still dominates the computing world. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but we're not, and it doesn't. MS needs to abide by the terms and conditions of third party services or not produce an app at all.

Google wasn't happy with that and basically said that they had to write the app in HTML5 (unlike the Youtube apps on Android and iOS) and forced them to take it down again.

HTML5 is the standard third party API for Youtube. Any app that doesn't use it is breaking the terms and conditions of the service.

Google can use any API's it wants because it owns the service and app on Android and iOS. Microsoft can't and must use the same third party API as everyone else.

You can research it yourself, there's a lot of articles out there (including on Neowin) about the whole fiasco.  Sorry, Google was being a jerk here, no matter how you try to write it off that's the only legitimate explanation.

No, MS was being a "jerk" because of its sense of entitlement and the expectation of special treatment in a world it no longer dominates. It's about time Microsoft got knocked down a peg or two :D

They were and are anticompetitive when it comes to Windows Phone (they at one point blocked WP7 and 8 users from accessing maps.google.com, allegedly because they don't support webkit, even though they'd worked fine before)

They blocked IE because it isn't standards compliant. In fact, Microsoft even changed the agent string so it now impersonates webkit browsers like Chromium, even though it doesn't fully support HTML5 properly. IE has always lagged behind other browsers.
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theyarecomingforyou

Terrible review by your average Google-monkey, what a whiney douche.

You do realise he uses an iPhone, right? Plus there's no need for the personal attack - it doesn't do anything to support your position.

 

The MS cloud is the advantage and their edge.  Your cloud should dictate your device not vice versa.  And once you have a better cloud, the need for 20 apps to do the same things is not only inefficient, it makes the fight over apps even more laughable to begin with.

If the cloud is an advantage then Microsoft needs to communicate that, as I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Google and Apple have the cloud too and I'm unaware of anything that Windows Phone's cloud implementation does better than the competition, certainly not anything that would shift devices.
 

Everyone keeps saying WP is severely lacking, but no one lists what? I get the apps are lacking. That's a real and serious problem for WP. But what about the OS is lacking? Is it lacking anything anyone actually cares about? If you have all the apps you personally want, is it "lacking"?

You need to look at it the other way. What does Windows Phone do better than the competition? Its app store isn't better; its developer support isn't better; its feature support isn't better; its hardware isn't better. Plus, he points out in the review the apps that are missing.

 

Consumers are already invested in iOS or Android - they've bought apps, they've synchronised all their contacts, they've got used to the interface, etc. In order to move to Windows Phone it needs to be obviously better than the competition and that's simply not the case, something supported by Windows Phone's small and declining market share.

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Pas

all i can say is i've owned quite a few iphones in the past and my current lumia 1520 is the best phone i've ever had. i refuse to use any android device. people out there who degrade windows phones obviously have never used one for longer than a few hours. i admit using the os requires a bit of a learning curve but after a couple of days it's great. granted, the number of apps is lower than there is for ios and droid but how many weather and calculator apps do i need? every single app or game i used on my iphones i now have the same app or equivalent on my 1520.

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ctebah

you guys keep grouping ios with android when criticizing windows phone. iPhone is soon about to be neighbors with windows phone in the sub 10% marketshare category. almost there, just need less than 2% and they are there.

but just off the top of my head, some edge windows phone posseses over android

runs faster and smoother

is more secure

has better battery life

is cheaper for OEMs

updates bypassing carriers

universal apps

has a phone called yezz billy

 

 

Yes but WP has to triple its current base for it to be anywhere close.  Not happening any time soon.

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Dot Matrix

Only after releasing it and being threatened with legal consequences. Microsoft knew when it was writing the app that it broke the Youtube T&C, yet it went ahead with it anyway. MS thinks it deserves special treatment like we're back in the 90's and it still dominates the computing world. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but we're not, and it doesn't. MS needs to abide by the terms and conditions of third party services or not produce an app at all.

HTML5 is the standard third party API for Youtube. Any app that doesn't use it is breaking the terms and conditions of the service.

Google can use any API's it wants because it owns the service and app on Android and iOS. Microsoft can't and must use the same third party API as everyone else.

No, MS was being a "jerk" because of its sense of entitlement and the expectation of special treatment in a world it no longer dominates. It's about time Microsoft got knocked down a peg or two :D

They blocked IE because it isn't standards compliant. In fact, Microsoft even changed the agent string so it now impersonates webkit browsers like Chromium, even though it doesn't fully support HTML5 properly. IE has always lagged behind other browsers.

IE is standards compliant. Where have you been?

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HawkMan

holy crap.  this review highlight all that is wrong with WP

 

i love windows.... but they just did not create an appealing OS for phone.  

was it their fault, or the fact they were too late, and too sucky, so no developer support...

 

does not matter.  actually, i am kidding... MS messed up big. unfortunately..  

i was thinking of buying WP for the longest time.  but it was just never appealing overall.

 

 

i WOULD LOVE TO LOVE WP.   but overall, it still does not provide what i expect of it (not just apps... OS functionality)

 

I've moved from Android to WP and my GF uses iPhone. There is no needed basic functionality needed in WP that other mobile OS' have.  The only complaint is the lack of apps. but if that was a real argument then iOS would be the only choice anyway since the majority of apps I would be interested in are only on iOS or better on iOS anyway.  As for OS fucntionality I find it has better or as good as the other two. 

They blocked IE because it isn't standards compliant. In fact, Microsoft even changed the agent string so it now impersonates webkit browsers like Chromium, even though it doesn't fully support HTML5 properly. IE has always lagged behind other browsers.

 

Chrome doesn't fully support HTML5. in fact NO browser does so... oops. 

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neo158

IE is standards compliant. Where have you been?

simplezz is from an alternate 1990s where IE5 is still the dominant browser :p

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siah1214

simplezz is from an alternate 1990s where IE5 is still the dominant browser :p

Microsoft could release a free cure to ebola and cancer and simplezz would still find a reason to whinge and moan about it.  Not going to waste my time on his drivel.

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Dashel

My main reasons for not using WP, basic functionality like repeat message notifications are missing. On Android, I can replace the stock messaging app with something like GoSMS that gives me multitude of features and customizations.

 

Customizations in general are limited on WP, making folders on what is an otherwise cluttered "start" screen is a really inefficient way of viewing information. On Android, you can make your homescreenS (yes, plural), any way you want with widgets that provide actual information/content without delving into a specific app.

 

On Android, if the OS is lacking something, you have actual first party apps or even an excellent third party app selection. People want apps, and you guys are thinking about app selection from an enthusiast perspective. That ultimately is the bottom line, because you can have the best phone hardware but without good software, you're not getting anywhere. 

 

Final points, no one is wrong - everyone has their needs on what a platform should/shouldn't do, hence why everyone uses different phones. Most importantly, at the end of the day, it's just a phone OS, and life is way too short to be arguing about which OS/product is better, so enjoy what you use!

 

The customizations you are looking for are so niche that its not even worth bringing up.  Inefficient way of viewing info?  Its silly to say that then follow it up with the example of widgets/homescreens which isn't even in the same league as Metro.  Maybe if their first party apps didn't blow so badly they wouldn't have to keep paying for alternatives.  More efficient?  Not so much.

 

Look at the top 100 app list for Android right now, its a joke, just less so than the ###### they preinstall.  As is the corresponding widget list.  I find it hilarious that you guys fixate so over apps and 'customization'.

 

Please, leave the boohoo enjoy what you use BS at the door as long as you tow the notion that emphasis on app selection isn't an (very questionable use of) enthusiast perspective.

You do realise he uses an iPhone, right? Plus there's no need for the personal attack - it doesn't do anything to support your position.

 
If the cloud is an advantage then Microsoft needs to communicate that, as I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Google and Apple have the cloud too and I'm unaware of anything that Windows Phone's cloud implementation does better than the competition, certainly not anything that would shift devices.
 

You need to look at it the other way. What does Windows Phone do better than the competition? Its app store isn't better; its developer support isn't better; its feature support isn't better; its hardware isn't better. Plus, he points out in the review the apps that are missing.

 

The minute he uploaded this trash to YouTube and proclaimed himself a 'tech enthusiast' (lulz) he deserves all the personal attacks that come for such hubris.  The issue is his choice of cloud and his lack of foresight on how that works with devices not in the fiefdoms these same yahoos are content with.

 

If you can't tell the huge differences between Google and Apple's clouds, how can you possibly compare to what MS has created?  Again, the things you place importance on are molehills.  The hardware is equal or better, features are equal or better, its clearly a better enterprise device, and you just repeated 'apps' twice, which is a minor issue.  Plus it has meaningful personalization, not a need for radical customization.

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tsupersonic

The customizations you are looking for are so niche that its not even worth bringing up.  Inefficient way of viewing info?  Its silly to say that then follow it up with the example of widgets/homescreens which isn't even in the same league as Metro.  Maybe if their first party apps didn't blow so badly they wouldn't have to keep paying for alternatives.  More efficient?  Not so much.

 

Look at the top 100 app list for Android right now, its a joke, just less so than the ###### they preinstall.  As is the corresponding widget list.  I find it hilarious that you guys fixate so over apps and 'customization'.

 

Please, leave the boohoo enjoy what you use BS at the door as long as you tow the notion that emphasis on app selection isn't an (very questionable use of) enthusiast perspective.

A typical fanboy post, very defensive. You clearly don't understand that the simple fact of everyone wants something different from their smartphones and there is no platform that fits everyone needs... I use iOS, where there is no customization beyond creating folders and changing the wallpaper, similar to WP customization - locked down. On Android, you can change anything from the launcher to how the icons look to adding widgets, basically limitless customization. I see advantages to both UI sides, so this is subjective. Yes, I do find Metro/iOS to have an inefficient UI. A quick count of how many emails I have or how many messages I received is absolutely useless at a very quick glance. Having a scrollable widget that shows me the emails, and phone calls/messages is much more useful information - all this is in the notification bar also. If I don't have to go into the app, it's saving me time, therefore efficient. 

 

First party Android apps don't blow. Hell, developers care enough about the platform to make it even available, which is not even true for WP, which is absolutely disappointing from both third party developers and Microsoft. Why would developers create apps. for a platform that doesn't have a big market share? I'm talking about average consumers caring for all these apps. 

 

Yes, enjoy what you use. My requirements are a stable OS (which all three are), with plenty of actual apps that people want to use (right now that's not WP's strong suit). We use different products, so what? Seriously don't get so overly defensive, it's just a phone. 

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Dashel

We aren't talking about universal things everyone needs in a smartphone.  We are talking about a review that cites it as good for 'no one' simply because he feels it doesn't fit people's needs - i.e. his, ex-MS developers, or whatever gadget dorks feel is a zomgz deal breaker.

 

Everyone can be well served by WP is the message he isn't hearing because he is too busy looking for an app for that.

 

Why is going into an app such a chore for you?  Can you not multi-task between the two apps easily?  WP has rough edges here and there, but never have I thought, damn, I really don't want to take the time to open mail to read mail.

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Mr. Gibs

The funny thing is a lot of the apps people want are made by developers other than the company who's service they want to use. Because the company doesn't care enough to write an app for WP, so someone else has to do it for them.

And those apps are usually better than the developers official apps (even their iOS and Android versions)
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babyHacker

Say what you want, at least this guy used it extensively.A lot of reviewers (especially for Windows 8) use the product very little and decide they hate it.

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FloatingFatMan

I've moved from Android to WP and my GF uses iPhone. There is no needed basic functionality needed in WP that other mobile OS' have.  The only complaint is the lack of apps. but if that was a real argument then iOS would be the only choice anyway since the majority of apps I would be interested in are only on iOS or better on iOS anyway.  As for OS fucntionality I find it has better or as good as the other two. 

 

Chrome doesn't fully support HTML5. in fact NO browser does so... oops. 

 

 

Actually, there is ONE basic feature in Android that WP doesn't have, and I'm sorely missing it since I got my 930 a few weeks ago.  Individual control over Bluetooth profiles.  On Android, you can decide what profiles connect to what services on your BT devices, which meant I could disable the audio profile to my car's handfree kit and keep the headset connection.  This stops voice guidance on the satnav from interfering with my car stereo and only phone calls can cut in.

 

On WP, there's no way to do this, so every single sound the phone makes cuts out my stereo for several seconds at a time, which is extremely irritating.

 

So far though, that's the only thing I'm really missing. For everything else, there are equivalent apps, or you just don't need an app (YouTube is a case in point here. Why are people clamoring for an app when the website goes into mobile mode on IE11? It works perfectly).

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      Welcome back to the Neowin Podcast. On episode 22 - which might be our final one as Rich is leaving Neowin - we talk about the sad news that LG has officially called it quits on its mobile business, as well as the uncertain path for Windows 10 in the next few months.

      This week started with news that may have left many of us disheartened. After almost two decades in the mobile phone space, LG has decided to close down its smartphone division due to the highly competitive nature of the market. As we discuss in the episode, LG was responsible for many innovations throughout the years, even in the smartphone era, with standout devices like the LG G Flex 2, the G5, or the V10.

      Then, on Wednesday, we got a new Windows 10 build after a hiatus last week, and with it came a switch to a new development branch, co_release, signaling that Microsoft may be getting ready to wrap up development on the big Windows 10 feature update for this fall. We were expecting a big visual overhaul, x64 emulation on ARM, and potentially even support for Android apps, but it's unclear where things may be headed with this switch. The build also came with the news that Paint and Snipping Tool are going to start being updated through the Microsoft Store.

      If you'd like to catch up on the news discussed in this episode, you can use the links below:

      LG is officially shutting down its mobile phone business, but you may still get updates Retrospective: LG G Flex 2; LG G5, and LG V10 Microsoft releases Windows 10 build 21354 from the co_release branch Microsoft will update Snipping Tool and Paint through the Microsoft Store

      You can listen to the episode below, and the Neowin Podcast is available on iTunes - and apps that rely on its library - as well as Google Podcasts, Spotify, and Amazon Music. And if you want to add it to your own podcast library, you can use this RSS feed:



      Neowin.net · Episode 22 - LG gives up on phones, and what's next for Windows 10