2 Years With Linux


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gohpep

I've actually been using Debian since 5-7-13 on 2 of my machines and they haven't screwed themselves up once yet just from a simple update like Ubuntu always has. Won't use that bloated POS ever again and I don't care how "user" friendly it's supposed to be or how great their forums are either.

 

Still can't go 100% Linux though as Linux just isn't my cup of tea mainly due to that command line crap also. Don't have to use it very often, but when I do, it's a total headache. How is anyone supposed to know that crap off the top of their head without searching for what the command is and thus wasting a ton of time?

 

The day they can make it so EVERYTHING has a simple UI for Linux, and not have to dig around to get mp3's, flash and other things to work out of the box, I might think about going 100% Linux, but until then, it's mainly a play thing.

I went from Debian to Fedora and today I changed to Parabola, which is Linux-Libre based on Arch Linux.

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gohpep

If the market share was reversed you would hear about Linux users downloading malicious deb files or scripts and running them. Linux is not really targeted because it's desktop market share is non existent compared to Windows.

Linux has the majority marketshare among servers, which are more valuable than client machines, which is what most Windows machines are based on. Why aren't viruses rampant on Linux? (and when a vulnerability is found, why does it not affect something as widescale as a windows virus/vulnerability)

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+Red King

I switched to Linux completely about 5 years ago, when I was finishing my bachelor's degree on colleague and starting some computational stuff/scripting for work and later for my PhD. Some friends showed me how easy it is to compile code in Linux, so I decided to try. I chose Ubuntu, because it was the hottest distro at that time. At first, it was a bit rough, lots of things were different, software was different, and there were issues with fglrx ATi/AMD drivers (not a problem these days anymore). However, the decision to switch proved to be a success, I started loving features of Linux (omg -> virtual desktops, terminal, package manager) and my productivity went up. I still left a Win7 partition for gaming exclusively, because Linux was never gaming oriented. These days, with the introduction of Steam and GOG, things are improving, but there is still a long way to go to be on pair with Windows regarding gaming.

Later we [my family] decided to homogenize our software and switch from XP/Vista machines to Linux. I organized a step-by-step plan, first open-source software (Open/LibreOffice, Thunderbird, Firefox, etc), subsequently total switch to Lubuntu 10.x about 4 years ago.This was the closest to XP feel as you can get. However, nobody was really satisfied with Lubuntu (it's not as feature rich as XP/Unity/Gnome), so I took a bold step and installed Ubuntu 11.04 with Unity desktop environment. At first, I was a bit worried, because it is really different compared to standard window-environment, but to my surprise, everyone picked up Unity almost instantly. I prepared for long introduction, but in fact wasn't really necessary. Ubuntu with Unity was a great success. Now everyone in my household is running Ubuntu 14.04 LTS (5 machines + my workstation) and everyone is happy. Not to say there is almost zero maintenance required for me ... no antivirus, windows updates, manual upgrade of browsers, office suites.... just remote connection to ssh and apt-get dist-upgrade every 6 months and reinstallation of LTS every 2 years. It really can't get any more simple than this [fore casual home environment].

I am now using Fedora 20 with GNOME3 and I really like it. It is a perfect blend of software for me, and GNOME3 proved to be a marvelous environment, *AFTER* I took a leap of faith and learned how to use desktop environment from scratch. Fundamentals are quite different to what we were used to since DOS era, but once you get a hang of it, it really is a step forward.

I went to a university and got a bachelors in Computer Science.

Then I discovered C# and Visual Studio and.. well... I looked back at how coding was taught to me in Linux.

Now I am a massive fan of Windows.

Linux has the majority marketshare among servers, which are more valuable than client machines, which is what most Windows machines are based on. Why aren't viruses rampant on Linux? (and when a vulnerability is found, why does it not affect something as widescale as a windows virus/vulnerability)

Good luck exploiting a Server '12 box.

Ok, yeah, I guess I wasn't considering those people. Most things in GNU/Linux can be done in a GUI, enough for moderately advanced users. Support forums are outdated, and I do agree GNU/Linux needs better documentation on the GUI.

I really just meant that things can be done in a GUI contrary to the Linux stereotype that everything is a CLI. Those who can learn an alternative GUI to Windows will be able to use Linux. I do agree with you that people who are a bit less experienced will have trouble adapting to the new UI.

Issue is money and time.

Linux: Problem -> Google Solution -> Some solution involving terminal

Windows: Problem -> Try all the things you know -> Google Solution

Core i5 3570K @3.4ghz (3.8 with performance p_state), 8GB GSkill 1600mhz ram, R9 270X GPU, 128 GB Vertex 4 SSD. Admittedly not the best machine, but I wouldn't call it midrange.

Core i5 3570K @4.5Ghz (never had it run @3.4 Ghz), 32 GB, NV 660, SATAIII SSD

~5 seconds to login

Motherboard is to blame on such setups. Make sure you flash UEFI with edge version.

Also your CPU is unlocked, that puppy can OC to 4.5 to 5 Ghz and 4.2 Ghz without raising voltages.

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simplezz

I went to a university and got a bachelors in Computer Science.

Then I discovered C# and Visual Studio and.. well... I looked back at how coding was taught to me in Linux.

Now I am a massive fan of Windows.

Sure sure :sleep:

Which compiler and make system did you use on Linux?

 

Good luck exploiting a Server '12 box.

Microsoft notes the following operating systems as being affected by Sandworm:

Windows Vista ? Service Pack 2, including standard and x64 versions

Windows Server 2008 ? Service Pack 2, including x32, x64 and Itanium-based versions

Windows 7 ? Service Pack 1 for x32 and x64 versions

Windows Server 2008 R2 ? Service Pack 1 for x64 and Itanium-Based versions

Windows 8 and 8.1 ? includes 32-bit and x64 versions

Windows Server 2012

Windows Server 2012 R2

http://www.rappler.com/technology/news/72071-microsoft-patches-sandworm-vulnerability

Issue is money and time.

I agree. Which is why my main OS is GNU/Linux. I don't want to waste my time updating each non-system app manually. Neither do I wish to spend hours having to fix/reinstall after a malware, virus, or rootkit infection. Nor do I want to spend my time searching the internet for drivers, software, or replacements for things like the hideous Windows Console. All in all, I find GNU/Linux saves me time and money.

 

Core i5 3570K @4.5Ghz (never had it run @3.4 Ghz)

Well that's the stock without an OC.

 

~5 seconds to login

Which isn't fully booted. And let me guess, you're using a cached kernel. Try running a real boot from grub or after a kernel update. Five seconds is a distant dream under those conditions.

 

Also your CPU is unlocked, that puppy can OC to 4.5 to 5 Ghz and 4.2 Ghz without raising voltages.

I don't want the extra heat all the time. Especially in the summer months. I only OC when I need it.
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Max Norris

Linux has the majority marketshare among servers, which are more valuable than client machines, which is what most Windows machines are based on. Why aren't viruses rampant on Linux? (and when a vulnerability is found, why does it not affect something as widescale as a windows virus/vulnerability)

Because your typical malware targets your average clueless user who doesn't know better, not servers. Just like in any OS, malware doesn't magically appear out of thin air, and since it's a server doing nothing but a couple things and nothing else.. well, it's not hard to figure that one out. You also can't compare vulnerabilities and malware either, as they're two different things.. and that gets exploited all the time on Linux servers, can't go a week without hearing about whatever server being hacked/compromised/defaced, it's a fairly common occurrence. Although of course sometimes a vulnerability does let malware execute, namely Java and/or Flash, those two are notorious for it, but certainly not limited to those two.. which also has happened on Linux servers via other entry points.

End of the day, it's market share and bad user habits, nothing more. If the roles were reversed it would still be the same end result.

Which isn't fully booted. And let me guess, you're using a cached kernel. Try running a real boot from grub or after a kernel update. Five seconds is a distant dream under those conditions.

Intentionally cripping a system to slow down its boot process isn't exactly the ideal way to make another OS look better. May as well force it to use standard VGA drivers and compare graphics performance too.
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simplezz

Intentionally cripping a system to slow down its boot process isn't exactly the ideal way to make another OS look better. May as well force it to use standard VGA drivers and compare graphics performance too.

A fair comparison of boot times requires that the two do a full boot. Something that always happens in a dual boot situation and when Windows updates its kernel.
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Max Norris

A fair comparison of boot times requires that the two do a full boot. Something that always happens in a dual boot situation and when Windows updates its kernel.

Doesn't always happen in a dual boot (I do that now just fine), and updates is hardly a daily thing.. a "long" boot is the exception, not the norm. Should be comparing day-to-day usage, not that one time where it'll be slow to prove a point.
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+Red King

Sure sure :sleep:

Which compiler and make system did you use on Linux?

 

http://www.rappler.com/technology/news/72071-microsoft-patches-sandworm-vulnerability

I agree. Which is why my main OS is GNU/Linux. I don't want to waste my time updating each non-system app manually. Neither do I wish to spend hours having to fix/reinstall after a malware, virus, or rootkit infection. Nor do I want to spend my time searching the internet for drivers, software, or replacements for things like the hideous Windows Console. All in all, I find GNU/Linux saves me time and money.

 

Well that's the stock without an OC.

 

Which isn't fully booted. And let me guess, you're using a cached kernel. Try running a real boot from grub or after a kernel update. Five seconds is a distant dream under those conditions.

 

I don't want the extra heat all the time. Especially in the summer months. I only OC when I need it.

gcc + Emacs/VIM. Found myself not being productive at all and started using WinSCP and Putty and Notepad++ in the end.

There is also a university grown scheme compiler, same thing.

It is rare for a website to take input from a user about which files to open on a system.

Also patched.

Windows XP. Stop talking about Windows XP. Windows users do not know how to search for drivers. It is not something that we do.

Also, what is wrong with Windows Power Shell?

Applications have their own updaters or update automatically if they came from Windows store.

And it IS more expensive, you have to hire someone to maintain Linux boxes or end up in a situation where people can google solutions when the box goes down.

Kernel? Grub? Those are not Windows user terms.

I think you come from a world where updates are constant and always cause slowdowns.

Windows users come from a world where updates are applied when we allow them and for the rest of the time we sleep not shut down.

You can OC a bit (4.2 Ghz) without increasing voltage. Also if your OS is decent your CPU is rarely running at full power. Offtopic, but you can also get away with decreasing the voltage a bit.

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simplezz

gcc + Emacs/VIM. Found myself not being productive at all and started using WinSCP and Putty and Notepad++ in the end.

:omg:

 

Windows users do not know how to search for drivers. It is not something that we do.

Yes it is. I had to manually download and install ethernet, wifi, and other drivers on Windows 8. All of which worked OOTB on GNU/Linux. Then there's my Audigy 2 Zs soundcard's front panel that still doesn't work on Windows 7/8, yet it's fully functional on my Arch installation.

Also, what is wrong with Windows Power Shell?

If you have to ask that question.. It's not just PS, which I might add doesn't come preinstalled. It's the crappy Windows Console UI. No tabs, mind-numbingly terrible clipboard support, lack of window resizing, and a host of other things such as no POSIX support. I only have to spend five minutes in a Windows Console before I start contemplating my own sanity.

Applications have their own updaters

That's reliable isn't it? Let's hope a program has its own update and that it works. Not to mention that you have to run each program to activate its updater. Really?

Grub? Those are not Windows user terms.

Grub is a bootloader. If someone wishes to dual boot, then it's a requirement.

I think you come from a world where updates are constant and always cause slowdowns.

You got part of it right. Arch Linux updates are available continuously seeing as it's a rolling release distro.

Windows users come from a world where updates are applied when we allow them

So like every other OS then?

and for the rest of the time we sleep not shut down.

Good for you. If I'm not using my desktop PC, I shut it down. Perhaps you're referring to laptops/tablets/phones?

Offtopic, but you can also get away with decreasing the voltage a bit.

A p_state scaling driver will do that automatically.
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+Red King

:omg:

Only use for Linux was for C and Scheme languages and only EMACS (GUI and SSH) and VIM were used.

For Java, Eclipse runs on everything.

Uhm, so yeah... played around with Visual Studio and became a massive Windows fan since.

 

Yes it is. I had to manually download and install ethernet, wifi, and other drivers on Windows 8. All of which worked OOTB on GNU/Linux. Then there's my Audigy 2 Zs soundcard's front panel that still doesn't work on Windows 7/8, yet it's fully functional on my Arch installation.

From Vista on sound and video drivers changed a lot and for the better ...so old hardware is no longer supported.

This is really good actually.

All the components in my box has fully Windows support. Shocking.

I think the least supported Windows OS is 2003/XP 64-bit for obvious reasons.

Reminds me of something - you can still run games from ten years ago on Windows 8.1 and that is just beautiful.

 

If you have to ask that question.. It's not just PS, which I might add doesn't come preinstalled. It's the crappy Windows Console UI. No tabs, mind-numbingly terrible clipboard support, lack of window resizing, and a host of other things such as no POSIX support. I only have to spend five minutes in a Windows Console before I start contemplating my own sanity.

It is pre-installed. Typed in Power Shell on start screen and it came up. Never used it though.

I never spent more than five minutes using CMD.

 

That's reliable isn't it? Let's hope a program has its own update and that it works. Not to mention that you have to run each program to activate its updater. Really?

I am pretty sure Windows store does all that.

Also, I feel conflicted about having 3rd party applications update through a central system.

I don't want to go to Windows Updates to download the latest patch for Dark Souls II or Firefox - ridiculous IMO.

 

Grub is a bootloader. If someone wishes to dual boot, then it's a requirement.

You got part of it right. Arch Linux updates are available continuously seeing as it's a rolling release distro.

So like every other OS then?

Uhuh.

 

Good for you. If I'm not using my desktop PC, I shut it down. Perhaps you're referring to laptops/tablets/phones?

Your choice. I am just invalidating your "issues" one by one.

 

A p_state scaling driver will do that automatically.

You can offset that in Motherboard menu.
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Max Norris

Yes it is. I had to manually download and install ethernet, wifi, and other drivers on Windows 8. All of which worked OOTB on GNU/Linux. Then there's my Audigy 2 Zs soundcard's front panel that still doesn't work on Windows 7/8, yet it's fully functional on my Arch installation.

Eh can't deny that one -- on my particular hardware it's typically very good about having what's needed built in (assuming we're not talking about ye olde XP) but still download the latest video drivers anyways, but *shrug* It's typically a once and done thing. I don't count setup as a plus or minus as far as an OS goes.. install it once, mirror it and never install again.. a "reinstall" takes a few minutes and you're ready to go. Not a fan of time wasted for no good reason.

 

If you have to ask that question.. It's not just PS, which I might add doesn't come preinstalled. It's the crappy Windows Console UI. No tabs, mind-numbingly terrible clipboard support, lack of window resizing, and a host of other things such as no POSIX support. I only have to spend five minutes in a Windows Console before I start contemplating my own sanity.

Yes Powershell does come pre-installed, unless you're talking XP. But yea, the default console interface does suck in any number of directions and then a few more just for extra suck value, thank God you can replace it with a number of interfaces and/or shells themselves. 10's improved it a good bit, still got a ways to go though.
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corrosive23

the about 70 updates you have to install on a fresh win7 are also a fact and i find it hard to accept in modern times that such stuff won't downloaded and installed during the installation.

Fresh install of Ubuntu 14.04 LTS  176 updates.

tlewis23@ubuntu:~$ sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
Calculating upgrade... Done
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  linux-headers-3.13.0-37 linux-headers-3.13.0-37-generic
  linux-image-3.13.0-37-generic linux-image-extra-3.13.0-37-generic
The following packages will be upgraded:
  accountsservice apport apport-gtk apt apt-transport-https apt-utils
  aptdaemon aptdaemon-data bash bsdutils cups cups-bsd cups-client cups-common
  cups-core-drivers cups-daemon cups-ppdc cups-server-common dbus dbus-x11
  evolution-data-server evolution-data-server-common
  evolution-data-server-online-accounts file firefox fonts-droid
  fonts-opensymbol gcc-4.9-base gir1.2-ebook-1.2 gir1.2-ebookcontacts-1.2
  gir1.2-edataserver-1.2 gir1.2-freedesktop gir1.2-glib-2.0 gir1.2-gtk-3.0
  gir1.2-gudev-1.0 gir1.2-javascriptcoregtk-3.0 gir1.2-webkit-3.0
  gnome-calculator irqbalance krb5-locales language-selector-common
  language-selector-gnome libaccountsservice0 libapt-inst1.5 libapt-pkg4.12
  libblkid1 libc-bin libc-dev-bin libc6 libc6-dbg libc6-dev libcamel-1.2-45
  libcups2 libcupscgi1 libcupsimage2 libcupsmime1 libcupsppdc1 libcurl3
  libcurl3-gnutls libdbus-1-3 libebackend-1.2-7 libebook-1.2-14
  libebook-contacts-1.2-0 libecal-1.2-16 libedata-book-1.2-20
  libedata-cal-1.2-23 libedataserver-1.2-18 libgail-3-0 libgcc1 libgcrypt11
  libgirepository-1.0-1 libgpgme11 libgssapi-krb5-2 libgtk-3-0 libgtk-3-bin
  libgtk-3-common libgudev-1.0-0 libgweather-3-6 libgweather-common
  libharfbuzz-icu0 libharfbuzz0b libjavascriptcoregtk-3.0-0 libk5crypto3
  libkrb5-3 libkrb5support0 liblzo2-2 libmagic1 libmount1 libnm-gtk-common
  libnm-gtk0 libnspr4 libnss3 libnss3-1d libnss3-nssdb liboxideqt-qmlplugin
  liboxideqtcore0 libpam-systemd libreoffice-avmedia-backend-gstreamer
  libreoffice-ogltrans libreoffice-pdfimport
  libreoffice-presentation-minimizer libreoffice-style-human libsmbclient
  libssl1.0.0 libsystemd-daemon0 libsystemd-journal0 libsystemd-login0
  libudev1 libunity-control-center1 libunity-core-6.0-9 libunity-gtk2-parser0
  libunity-gtk3-parser0 libuuid1 libvncserver0 libwbclient0 libwebkitgtk-3.0-0
  libwebkitgtk-3.0-common linux-firmware linux-generic linux-headers-generic
  linux-image-generic linux-libc-dev man-db mount multiarch-support net-tools
  network-manager-gnome openssl oxideqt-codecs python-aptdaemon
  python-aptdaemon.gtk3widgets python-cupshelpers python-gi python-gi-cairo
  python-gobject python-samba python3-apport python3-aptdaemon
  python3-aptdaemon.gtk3widgets python3-aptdaemon.pkcompat python3-distupgrade
  python3-gi python3-gi-cairo python3-problem-report python3-requests rsyslog
  samba-common samba-common-bin samba-libs shotwell shotwell-common smbclient
  system-config-printer-common system-config-printer-gnome
  system-config-printer-udev systemd-services ubuntu-drivers-common
  ubuntu-release-upgrader-core ubuntu-release-upgrader-gtk udev unity
  unity-control-center unity-gtk-module-common unity-gtk2-module
  unity-gtk3-module unity-services uno-libs3 ure usb-creator-common
  usb-creator-gtk util-linux uuid-runtime wpasupplicant xserver-common
  xserver-xorg-core xserver-xorg-video-intel
176 upgraded, 4 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 200 MB of archives.
After this operation, 236 MB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n]

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Gerowen

The day that I can set up Linux on a random computer, and have it work out of the box, including recognising my (any) wi-fi adapter, without opening a terminal session, and do any driver upgrading without using the terminal, is when I will think about using Linux on a daily basis.

 

As it is now, Linux remains a geek OS.

 

This is why the "Year of Linux" is just your wet dream.

 

It ain't goin' nowhere.

 

Actually, the "Year of the Linux Desktop" seems to be more of a running joke with Windows and Apple fanboys.  I have never met any serious Linux users who quote, "But THIS YEAR will be the one!" because you can't seriously look at a market where one company has over 95% of the market cornered and think you'll displace them in a single year.  99.9% of the people I've seen or heard quote the "year of the Linux desktop" thing are people who are, I guess you could say anti-Linux, because they're rarely helpful or interested in having an open discussion about the status of the current monopolized system we're forced to work within.  Even Apple, Microsoft's biggest competitor in the desktop PC market, has less than a 5% market share the last time I looked, and I have a feeling it has a lot less to do with which one is better than it does with clever marketing, government contracts, and an unwillingness of every day people to try something different when they're comfortable with what they already have.

 

On to the OP, I'm glad you've had a positive experience with Linux.  My wife and I haven't owned a Windows PC in 5 or 6 years.  The closest we've gotten is building a virtual machine once and a while to test scripts/programs.  I used Debian for a really long time and was happy with it, but there were a lot of things (Steam in particular at the time) that didn't work quite right in Debian without some tweaking, and Ubuntu seems to be getting the most 3rd party support, so I switched to Ubuntu on the desktop not only to make things easier on me, but also easier on my wife since she is a non-technical end user.

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+InsaneNutter

Linux has the majority marketshare among servers, which are more valuable than client machines, which is what most Windows machines are based on. Why aren't viruses rampant on Linux?

 

The same reason viruses are not rampant on Windows servers, servers are set-up then all they do is simply server the application. You dont have uneducated desktop users browsing the web and running anything that requires admin / root rights without even thinking about it.

 

Windows and Linux servers are exploited through vulnerabilities all the time, e.g. in PHP or through weaknesses in the application that server is running e.g. SQL injection attacks. Look at all the articles we have seen over the about the PSN been hacked and so on, a lot of these servers were running Linux... i'm sure equally a lot had Windows on too.

 

 

when a vulnerability is found, why does it not affect something as widescale as a windows virus/vulnerability

 

Are we just ignoring Shellshock then? i dont think you could get any more wide scale than that.

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+InsaneNutter

Actually, the "Year of the Linux Desktop" seems to be more of a running joke with Windows and Apple fanboys.

 

Personally i think the "Year of Linux" already happened, it might not be on the desktop, however Linux has the smartphone and tablet market thanks to Android. Likewise it could well end up owning the set-top devices, wearable technology and internet of things market too. Nothing to be sniffed at, Linux and Android in particular really shines here.

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T3X4S

Did someone say that only smart people use Linux ?   Guess Im dum    .....  < see what I did there ?


 

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simonlang

Did someone say that only smart people use Linux ?   Guess Im dum    .....  < see what I did there ?

 

 

you seem to try deliberately simplify things...... fact: the more people know about computers, os, etc. the more they tend to at least have a knowledge of not only the default installed windows (some even just call it windows and don't know if it's vista, 7 or something else!) but also of mac os x and linux. and that's just the point: once using linux many experience what the thread OP perfectly described. all the advantages and start to ask: how long could i even blindly use windows and not looking for something better?

gaming and special programs aside, most people need their system for office, mail, internet, and some picture editing. this all can be done just as well with linux as with other os, plus it's free, stable and secure.

when i started i was happy with nautilus file manager but now i discovered dolphin with it's endless options and configurability and i don't wanna use anything else anymore.

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vhane

I have a healthy amount of respect for Linux. It's been dependable and rock solid over the years. A trusty, familiar tool that I use everyday. I just haven't felt the urge to run it as a workstation OS for a long time now. 6+ years maybe? I certainly no longer have the urge to tinker with my OS. I'd rather write software than configure someone else's.

 
But Linux has been ready for the desktop for ages. It hasn't gained more marketshare simply because it doesn't come pre-installed on computers that people can buy from the shop. Most people really aren't interested in operating systems. The OS is just something that they tolerate. They just want to be able to run their apps and get stuff done. And that's fine. It doesn't make them any less intelligent than the geeks. It just means that people have different priorities.
 
Ubuntu and CentOS rule the datacentre though.
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HawkMan

Linux has the majority marketshare among servers, which are more valuable than client machines, which is what most Windows machines are based on. Why aren't viruses rampant on Linux? (and when a vulnerability is found, why does it not affect something as widescale as a windows virus/vulnerability)

 

Because servers have backups and usually it specialists, they're not worth attacking like that. When servers are attacked its not by viruses but by targeted attacks and that's where Linus servers are at the top, mostly because of apache and SQL. But also others.

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Art_X

As someone who uses both Linux and Windows, I find this Windows is better than Linux stuff so funny, NEITHER are better than the other, they do the same thing in a different way, if one does it the way you want it great, if it doesnt, then use something else, I use Windows for games and art, Linux for everything else.

 

As for bugs, people saying about shell shock should remember that MS had an unpatched bug in its OS for 17 years, stuff happens.

 

As usual threads like these seem to go off topic rather quickly

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HawkMan

Personally i think the "Year of Linux" already happened, it might not be on the desktop, however Linux has the smartphone and tablet market thanks to Android. Likewise it could well end up owning the set-top devices, wearable technology and internet of things market too. Nothing to be sniffed at, Linux and Android in particular really shines here.

 

But android isn't Linux, no one but Linux fans claim it is. At most you'll see the revs refer to it as linux based. It's no more Linux than OSX is Linux/BSD.

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gohpep

As someone who uses both Linux and Windows, I find this Windows is better than Linux stuff so funny, NEITHER are better than the other, they do the same thing in a different way, if one does it the way you want it great, if it doesnt, then use something else, I use Windows for games and art, Linux for everything else.

 

As for bugs, people saying about shell shock should remember that MS had an unpatched bug in its OS for 17 years, stuff happens.

 

As usual threads like these seem to go off topic rather quickly

I have to admit, I do like using my Windows computer for document editing, gaming, and video editing. But I love programming with Linux.

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simonlang

But android isn't Linux, no one but Linux fans claim it is. At most you'll see the revs refer to it as linux based. It's no more Linux than OSX is Linux/BSD.

 

sure android is more linux than any mac os ... you can flash any kernel, like on linux, you can flash custom roms, and so on.

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Praetor

Hi all,

 

Been using Linux/BSD/Windows/OSX/Solaris since... 1996, i guess. Early than that it was DOS and Unix all the way.

 

First of all let me start saying that every OS i've used had it's imperfections and misses, so no OS is "perfect"  - and even that is highly subjective since what is good for me it isn't for my peer. So every time i see this kind of discussion - they do exist much before Neowin even existed - it's just fanbois vs fanbois, without any scientific data, just pure speculation and FUD. Fortunately people are getting more educated so better arguments are being made. So lets start with it!

 

Using Linux 100% for me just isn't possible: there is an amount of tools (read: software) that just doesn't exist in Linux and can't even be emulated either with Wine, Crossover or whatever. Also the fact that i work with multiple OS everyday, so being limited to 1 OS isn't being productive, honestly. And because i'm not a fanboi and i tend to use as much as i can because i'm curious as the cat, i can see the pro/cons of several OS and use the pros whenever possible. But then again i don't use Windows 100% as well.

 

What i see from my clients is, while some could benefit from using Linux and going all opensource (because the software they use it doesn't matter in which OS it runs, since it's all web based), other are limited in proprietary software that doesn't have any viable alternative (either OSX or Linux). In home, however, it's a completely different story: people are moving towards OSX, since they have an iPhone and / or iPad and they want to continue to experiment the same experience with a laptop / desktop, by using OSX.

 

Claiming malware / BSOD and other naggings doesn't happen in other OS than Windows is just false: folks, if you are claiming this then i'm sorry but you must be using IT very recently: since i remember, i've seen or experienced every crap in every OS i've used, including OSX, Linux, DOS, you name it. Granted, i don't experience a BSOD in Windows since 2008-2009 (and it was faulty hardware) and being virus free depend mostly of good sense and protecting stuff (like scanning pens if you borrowed them); in last couple of years no hardware of mine had any missing driver or drive issues in Fedora (i do have an Digital Audio Workstation that only works 100% in Fedora, since the software that supports the audio card only works great in Fedora, not even in Windows) and OSX is getting more stuff every release that convinces Windows people to switch.

 

Where are we heading? I think the way we are heading is this: the OS won't matter, it's the apps that make or break the OS.

 

About the CLI: i still have to use the CLI, either in Windows (DOS prompt or powershell), OSX or Linux; the fact that only the latter one is most know for the CLI shows how little people know their OS of choice (in Windows you can do everything with the CLI, specially for servers). Still, for Linux to be more mainstream they have to take a path that Apple has taken for OSX: it's so dumbed down and it just works that every Joe can use the OS and be happy with it. Ubuntu and it's derivatives are the distros that noobs use when venturing in the Linux world and they are great, having taking leaps - i remember how was Linux 10 years ago and it's nothing like today, but it still has a long path to walk to be more accessible.

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adrynalyne

sure android is more linux than any mac os ... you can flash any kernel, like on linux, you can flash custom roms, and so on.

Not by default you cannot.  You have to root it, usually through a hardware level exploit.

 

Flashing software is not what makes Linux, Linux.  The kernel does, but we should probably realize that we aren't talking about Linux here.  We are talking about GNU/Linux, which Android most definitely is not.

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