vcfan Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 What he is accused of is beyond awful. With that said, we have laws for a reason. You cannot take justice into your own hands. you allow the law to take away your dignity and self respect? DConnell 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macoman Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 you allow the law to take away your dignity and self respect? I think some people here in Neowin, will do... Me, nah, I will go ballistic. vcfan 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memphis Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 My view on this rests on when the damage was done. If it was in the initial encounter I can justify it and say that my rage might have lead to this mans death, if it was after the cops where interviewing him, then anyone who justifies it is crazy. To me, it is sad when it seems like all anyone knows about justice is from the last time they sat down and watched Boondock Saints. DConnell 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwaysonacoffebreak Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I havent read the whole 6 pages of comments so I have to ask...are you sure he actually did rape her? You know how easy it is for a woman these days to call out rape just the spite of things? Maybe she got caught cheating and that was her way out? +E.Worm Jimmy 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theyarecomingforyou Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 The very a same could be said for the statements you make. Your constant and very obvious reminders of what is right/wrong with peoples actions/statements and yet the inability to admit that you yourself may engage in less than noble behavior. I freely admit that sometimes my behaviour falls short of my own standards. However, I don't go around defending such behaviour. Using physicality to break up a rape-in-progress is understandable; violently assaulting someone while being interviewed by police is not. Further, it hasn't even been established that this was rape - if it wasn't then that shines a whole new light on matters. The boyfriend walked in to see his uncle having sex with his girlfriend and there is no implication that the uncle was being violent towards the woman. The woman was drunk at the time and she may have decided to have sex she wouldn't have had when sober, changing her story when she was caught. When the narrative shifts from 'heroic boyfriend rescues girlfriend from rapist' to 'spurned lover violently assaults rival' the right and wrong of the situation alters dramatically - then the alleged rapist becomes the victim and the violent boyfriend the criminal. The only crime we know that took place for certain was the boyfriend's violent assault on his uncle. Such behaviour is not tolerated by society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memphis Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I havent read the whole 6 pages of comments so I have to ask...are you sure he actually did rape her? You know how easy it is for a woman these days to call out rape just the spite of things? Maybe she got caught cheating and that was her way out? Seen this very thing happen before. Of course the excuse didn't get any traction because it was so obviously consensual, but the fact that it was attempted at all was shocking. Rape is an interesting crime to me because in some ways it seems like its taken more seriously than murder. Over the years when I read am article about someone murdering someone, the comments don't seem to contain woodchipper references etc even if the murder was fairly violent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloatingFatMan Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Stop being ridiculous. It's patently obvious I'm not advocating doing nothing. There's a difference between intervening and beating someone to a pulp. Until faced with that situation, you cannot possible predict how you react. I can tell you one thing, you do not think about anything at the time; you just act. My view on this rests on when the damage was done. If it was in the initial encounter I can justify it and say that my rage might have lead to this mans death, if it was after the cops where interviewing him, then anyone who justifies it is crazy. To me, it is sad when it seems like all anyone knows about justice is from the last time they sat down and watched Boondock Saints. Well, in general I agree; but for the boyfriend, it's possible that's literally just when he found out about it, so he would be full of rage at the time. But yes, if it were some time after he found out about it, it stops becoming rage and turns into a pre-meditated act of revenge. Something no one should condone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theyarecomingforyou Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Seen this very thing happen before. Of course the excuse didn't get any traction because it was so obviously consensual, but the fact that it was attempted at all was shocking. Rape is an interesting crime to me because in some ways it seems like its taken more seriously than murder. Over the years when I read am article about someone murdering someone, the comments don't seem to contain woodchipper references etc even if the murder was fairly violent. Exactly. Rape has become more than it is, much in the same way that paedophilia has - even the accusation of it can destroy lives and innocent people have been murdered as a result. People become so enraged by such crimes that they behave in an abhorrent manner that defies logic. Rape is also an extremely difficult crime to prove, as it nearly always comes down to one person's word against another's. Things become a lot more complicated when alcohol is involved and simply requiring that people abstain from sex whilst drunk isn't practical or realistic. It's easy to claim rape in the sober light of day but that doesn't necessarily reflect the reality of the moment. Everyone should be in complete agreement that such violence is unacceptable, even if one can empathise with it. No-one should be advocating such violence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+LogicalApex MVC Posted January 5, 2015 MVC Share Posted January 5, 2015 Uhhhh... so do you ask ? get her to sign a waiver ? indemnity clause ? stopwatch ? You have never gone out to a bar and picked up a girl ? Ever hear of heat of the moment ? Spontenaity ? No offense but you make it sound like a job interview - not sex. LOL _______________ As far as theyarecomingforyou's comment about the extent of the beating - you realize that is completely relative. What you view as violent, a primal animalistic beastly encounter - someone else might think he deserves much worse - who is to say who is right ? I have never gone to a bar and picked up a girl nor have I ever had a one night stand or anything along those lines. I also don't drink and I don't visit parties... I am overly concerned with issues like this so I don't put myself at risk, literally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T3X4S Posted January 5, 2015 Author Share Posted January 5, 2015 I have never gone to a bar and picked up a girl nor have I ever had a one night stand or anything along those lines. I also don't drink and I don't visit parties... I am overly concerned with issues like this so I don't put myself at risk, literally. Well thats just it - Im sending you an airplane ticket, we are going out bar-hopping in North Dallas - you wont be able to resist once you see Texas women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Ahhh....party boating in Texas! Boats, beer & babes....and no doubt as to everyone's end goal. What a summer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+E.Worm Jimmy Subscriber¹ Posted January 5, 2015 Subscriber¹ Share Posted January 5, 2015 This is why I never have, and never will, have any sexual relations with a girl who has consumed any drugs, including alcohol, within 24 hours of our potential sexual encounter. If she were to state that she didn't consent I wouldn't have a defense. Alcohol, and any other drug, that prevents her from consenting would make me a rapist, by default. I wouldn't risk that scenario, period. I have never gone to a bar and picked up a girl nor have I ever had a one night stand or anything along those lines. I also don't drink and I don't visit parties... I am overly concerned with issues like this so I don't put myself at risk, literally. I believe you said you are happily married too? So what you personally do is irrelevant, since you don't need to go meet girls for sex. Yeah, this think is terrible, but I have gotten more laid then I can remember when very drunk in bars and clubs. Taking that away from me would have limited my sex option increadibly. Even with a new prospective girlfriend (and not just one night stand) a bottle of wine or two, really gets things going. Huge difference between a few drinks and getting trashed. I will not risk touching a girl I don't know well, if she is trashed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madd-hatter Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 What he is accused of is beyond awful. With that said, we have laws for a reason. You cannot take justice into your own hands. Sure you can, we see it here. I fully support the boyfriend, but am disappointed that he didn't finish the job. DConnell 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+E.Worm Jimmy Subscriber¹ Posted January 5, 2015 Subscriber¹ Share Posted January 5, 2015 I wouldn't have let him out the door. He would be dead. Blabber about morals all you want. He'd still be dead. and you would spend quality time in jail without a chance to find out if it was the girl who seduced your drunk uncle (who's only mistake was lack of self control and weakness for alcohol) not something that he deserved DEATH over... instead of dumping the cheating slut you would KILL A RELATIVE. T3X4S 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madd-hatter Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 and you would spend quality time in jail without a chance to find out if it was the girl who seduced your drunk uncle (who's only mistake was lack of self control and weakness for alcohol) not something that he deserved DEATH over... instead of dumping the cheating slut you would KILL A RELATIVE. IDK what your talking about. My response is to the OP. I do not have access to the source site. Apparently you have much more detail on the story or the OP is selective info. These damn threads... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joswin Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 He did what anyone would have done. Good on him, the guy deserved everything he got. Not sure what the debate is, the law is supposed to protect people but often ends up protecting the criminals. In such a clear case, anything short of murder is acceptable force tbh. Even then, if all you had was a gun and were not physically able to get the guy off without risking it..... wouldn't you use it? Even if I ended up in jail I'd be comforted by the fact that (a) I saved someone I cared about and (b) probably his next victim when he got out of prison and went on to rape again. DConnell 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rippleman Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 He did what anyone would have done. Good on him, the guy deserved everything he got. Not sure what the debate is, the law is supposed to protect people but often ends up protecting the criminals. In such a clear case, anything short of murder is acceptable force tbh. Even then, if all you had was a gun and were not physically able to get the guy off without risking it..... wouldn't you use it? Even if I ended up in jail I'd be comforted by the fact that (a) I saved someone I cared about and (b) probably his next victim when he got out of prison and went on to rape again. The debate was about whether it was violence was justified dependent on if it was rape or not rape. If it was consensual, then the violence obviously it was wrong and it was just a jealous rage with assault. No one can no this yet (may never know). He said/she said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joswin Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Ok makes sense. If he wasn't attacking his girlfriend (and was just some guy she picked up) then that's totally different of course. I would assume you'd kinda know though, she'd likely have been fighting him off etc? So. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DConnell Member Posted January 5, 2015 Member Share Posted January 5, 2015 Two wrongs don't make a right. Violently assaulting someone isn't justice, it's vengeance. Decent people don't stoop to the level of common criminals. It's harder to do the right thing but that's what people of high moral calibre need to do. Read the story. The "assault" you're arguing against occurred while this piece of fecal matter was raping the girlfriend. That's not assault, that's defense! Was he supposed to politely ask the rapist to stop? What would you have done in the boyfriend's position? The only criticism I have for the "attacker" is that he didn't kill the guy and do humanity a favor. A close friend of mine was raped, so I have tolerance for that particular crime, and no sympathy in this case for the piece of filth that got beat up. Edit: Even if the girlfriend was actually cheating as some have suggested, the guy had no way of knowing that. In that case, she was in the wrong, but the boyfriend was completely justified in his actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theyarecomingforyou Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Read the story. The "assault" you're arguing against occurred while this piece of fecal matter was raping the girlfriend. Don't tell me to read the story when you patently haven't done so yourself! A suspected rapist was severely beaten by his nephew while being arrested by police. William Mattson, 52, was being interviewed by detectives at the property in Conway, South Carolina, when his alleged victim's boyfriend - also his nephew - attacked. Source: Daily Mail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DConnell Member Posted January 5, 2015 Member Share Posted January 5, 2015 Don't tell me to read the story when you patently haven't done so yourself! Source: Daily Mail That's different, and not what the initial post stated. I stand corrected. If the guy was in custody, then the boyfriend's action were wrong, but understandable. But as the story was initially presented? In that situation, completely justified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DConnell Member Posted January 5, 2015 Member Share Posted January 5, 2015 Stop being ridiculous. It's patently obvious I'm not advocating doing nothing. There's a difference between intervening and beating someone to a pulp. I don't agree. If someone is harming or even threatening someone I care about, I will use whatever force is needed to stop them, up to and including lethal. If the attacker runs or clearly surrenders, fine. If not, I'm not letting up until he stops moving. And only after I know the victim is safe will I care in the least if the attacker is unconscious or dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DConnell Member Posted January 5, 2015 Member Share Posted January 5, 2015 IDK what your talking about. My response is to the OP. I do not have access to the source site. Apparently you have much more detail on the story or the OP is selective info. These damn threads... Yeah, apparently there's been a revision to the story, which isn't reflected in the initial post. The original version presents a much more reasonable circumstance for the boyfriend's actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theyarecomingforyou Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 That's different, and not what the initial post stated. I stand corrected. If the guy was in custody, then the boyfriend's action were wrong, but understandable. The link is actually in the OP. It seems a lot of people just chose to ignore it. Whether that article is accurate or what the extent of the injuries were from the initial assault we don't know, though based on the article I linked to it seems most of the injuries occurred during the arrest. I don't agree. If someone is harming or even threatening someone I care about, I will use whatever force is needed to stop them, up to and including lethal. If the attacker runs or clearly surrenders, fine. If not, I'm not letting up until he stops moving. And only after I know the victim is safe will I care in the least if the attacker is unconscious or dead. There is no implication that the alleged rape was violent. Further, the rape hasn't been proven - she knew the man and was drunk at the time, so I'm naturally sceptical of her story. When you frame it like that we're talking about a violent man assaulting someone because his lover cheated on him - that is not acceptable and dramatically changes the narrative. My point is that the situation is not as black and white as people like to maintain. That's why all violence should be frowned upon. As for your other point - lethal force should only ever be used in life-or-death situations. It concerns me that you're so willing to kill someone in the heat of the moment without full awareness of the situation. It also concerns me that even in non-life-or-death situations you would attack anyone until they stop moving. Is society where you live really so violent that you have to be willing to cripple or kill someone at a moment's notice? It's human instinct to protect yourself and loved ones, to do what it takes to keep them safe. However, it seems your violence is premeditated - that you've planned your response to be violent knowing it will be considered acceptable in the eyes of the law. That to me is troubling. I find such a mentality utterly abhorrent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T3X4S Posted January 5, 2015 Author Share Posted January 5, 2015 IDK what your talking about. My response is to the OP. I do not have access to the source site. Apparently you have much more detail on the story or the OP is selective info. These damn threads... Maybe you should try reading the info provided, and not just skim over the initial post I'll shorten it up for you - People were drinking, women got careless, boyfriend got jealous, uncle went back to scene of crime to explain to cops what happened & the jealous boyfriend (his nephew) went nuts on him. This is far from clear cut, and far from over. DConnell 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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