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Montana police officer breaks down after fatally shooting unarmed man

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ctebah    3,389

 

Only in the US. In Germany or the UK you rarely ever hear of a police officer shooting someone dead, let alone if they're unarmed. We have to be clear that this is an issue with US policing, not something that is universal.

 

In most of the civilized world cops don't simply shoot people who refuse to comply.  There's a huge difference between not listening to the police officer and pulling a gun.  This can be attributed to letting everyone own guns as people will start using them on the police.  

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theyarecomingforyou    10,428

You know what else happens with 99.9% of people who deal with cops in the US? They do what the cop tells them and don't get shot by them. It's kind of interesting how that works huh?

So because most people aren't shot dead there isn't a problem? Right.  :rolleyes:

 

Doing good things doesnt make you a good person or wipe clean what you have done. And I said it is assuming a lot at this point if that guy who was killed would have gotten clean or not.   I can say what if after what if, but his life ended with him being not a good person.  And there is a difference between taking meth, and being so high on it all the time that you built up a big resistance to it.

And doing bad things doesn't make you a bad person. You have to look at the actions of a person as a whole. You claimed he wasn't a good person and your only evidence of that was his use of meth, yet I pointed out plenty of other meth users who aren't considered bad people.

 

The likelihood is that if this had occurred in any other developed nation this man would still be alive. That to me suggests there is an underlying problem that needs to be addressed.

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Unobscured Vision    2,691

 

The trouble with that is some times they don't work. Especially when people are on certain drugs. It just makes them angry. Or the reverse can happen, and then the non-lethal ends up killing the person because of the drugs they're taking have damaged their body in certain ways. Then the cop is sued for wrongful death of everything he owns.

 

Sadly, that tends to be the case. The area of Michigan I live in is rife with street drugs of all types, and the section of town I live in (mainly due to financial reasons, since we can't afford to move away) is pretty bad during the warmer seasons, so I hear about a lot of this kind of thing. I really have no patience for those who make poor choices -- they know what those substances do to them, what addiction does to the families and friends, etc.

 

I'm a recovering addict myself (18 years clean). Sometimes I go visit a friend who lives in the really messed up (drugs-wise) area that we call "Crack Manor" (the locals will know the place I'm talking about). He's not an addict himself, but the place is subsidized housing and he can afford it. I go there and it brings it all back, after all this time -- no matter how much I like to fool myself, thinking that "I don't relate to that mindset anymore" or "I don't remember what it's like to be THAT far gone", I see those people and the smell of the building hits my nose, and it's 1995 all over again.

 

So please understand, everyone -- it's not that I'm unsympathetic to addiction ... it's that I relate too much to it. The fella that got gunned down could have been me. Or one of you. And the Police Officer at the heart of this story? He felt like stir-fried crap for it.

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+trag3dy    4,194

So because most people aren't shot dead there isn't a problem? Right.  :rolleyes:

 

And doing bad things doesn't make you a bad person. You have to look at the actions of a person as a whole. You claimed he wasn't a good person and your only evidence of that was his use of meth, yet I pointed out plenty of other meth users who aren't considered bad people.

 

The likelihood is that if this had occurred in any other developed nation this man would still be alive. That to me suggests there is an underlying problem that needs to be addressed.

 

Yeah, the problem is people thinking they don't have to do what police tell them to and then acting like they are victims when they're confronted with the results of the choices they make. Which in this case and all the others recently is resisting arrest and getting shot/killed.

 

But yeah, I hear what you're saying. Totally the police officers fault those people chose to resist arrest or not comply in one way or another.

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chrisj1968    1,417

There are always going to be good officers and bad officers. Some are out right jackboot thugs. But everywhere in life there are good apples and bad.

 

I've also concluded alot of police are simply revenue generating personnel.

 

But this officer reinforces that some are still good guys

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theyarecomingforyou    10,428

Yeah, the problem is people thinking they don't have to do what police tell them to and then acting like they are victims when they're confronted with the results of the choices they make.

One should be able to defy the police with out being shot dead. Police are people and people make mistakes and/or abuse their power, which is why the use of force should be an absolute last resort - as we have seen time and time again that isn't the case in US policing. It was only the other day that we heard that police officers are going to be charged for the murder of a homeless guy and when you see the footage it's truly shocking. Without body cams it would have been just another murder chalked up as self-defence. Every police officer carrying a gun should have a camera.

 

I'm not blaming the individual police officer, I'm blaming the entire institution and political climate. Policing in the US is extremely confrontational and we've seen time and time again that police officers provoke the situation, knowing that they have firearms to fall back on. We've seen police officers shoot kids within seconds of attending a incident, not even giving the child a chance to respond and with no attempt to ascertain the situation. For too many people in the US this isn't a major story, it's become an 'in other news...' story.

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+Fulcrum    202

You can watch a dashboard cam video and determine who is a good guy? Well, I guess that makes the dead guy a bad guy then. How I ######ing miss those days.

 

All I see is a police tailing a car, pulling him over into a secluded area, rushing to the passenger door, opening it, pointing a flashlight, exchanging some words and then shooting.

 

I seem to be unique here, but I do not think a police should cry after supposedly doing their job. Do not think it's admirable, cute, whatever. It actually, screams red herring to me, is this guy emotionally fit to be an officer? He might be a good guy, but I think he belongs behind a desk.

 

I really don't like how the police just found himself opening the door, do people know their rights? Obviously not. Lock you doors, creek your window, hands on the steering wheel and respond to the officer's requests.

 

All these videos prove, is that police trample as many rights as you don't know you have. And if they kill you, it's your own fault.

 

This is a faceless society we live in, where we disparage those who cannot defend themselves, and celebrate those who get away with whatever they can.

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Circaflex    3,640

You can watch a dashboard cam video and determine who is a good guy? Well, I guess that makes the dead guy a bad guy then. How I ######ing miss those days.

 

All I see is a police tailing a car, pulling him over into a secluded area, rushing to the passenger door, opening it, pointing a flashlight, exchanging some words and then shooting.

 

I seem to be unique here, but I do not think a police should cry after supposedly doing their job. Do not think it's admirable, cute, whatever. It actually, screams red herring to me, is this guy emotionally fit to be an officer? He might be a good guy, but I think he belongs behind a desk.

 

I really don't like how the police just found himself opening the door, do people know their rights? Obviously not. Lock you doors, creek your window, hands on the steering wheel and respond to the officer's requests.

 

All these videos prove, is that police trample as many rights as you don't know you have. And if they kill you, it's your own fault.

 

This is a faceless society we live in, where we disparage those who cannot defend themselves, and celebrate those who get away with whatever they can.

I agree, especially because this is the second time he has shot and killed someone.

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RichardK    173

There should be rules of engagement for police officers.  Do not shoot unless fired upon.  Enough with the police thinking they have the right to shoot anyone for any reason.  This person was in a vehicle, all the officer had to do was walk away, if they didn't feel safe (and then walk on home and find another job).

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HawkMan    5,232

So you think the only cops fit to be "street" cops are those that are certifiably psychopathic and have no reaction to killing another human being ? 

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Rohdekill    781

It should not matter at all if he was a good person or not. The only thing that matters is what happened when he was shot.

Then the parents should shut up whether their child led a good life or not and reporters should never include it in their articles.  

 

Just once I'd like to hear parents state the truth about their kids AND their lack of parenting skills that led him/her to become this way.

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XerXis    259

So the cop never saw a gun or any weapon at all and still shot him three times. There must be a problem in the US. Either the cops are very badly trained or the people are very dangerous and even a routine traffic stop leads to shootings. Whatever the case, you guys should really deal with it. 

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theyarecomingforyou    10,428

After watching the footage of the incident it only supports what I initially suspected, which is that this is yet another case of extremely confrontational policing where excessive force was used. I don't see how anyone can watch the footage and claim that they think such conduct is appropriate. This is yet another case that has been swept under the rug, with the officer not facing any charges.

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Circaflex    3,640

So the cop never saw a gun or any weapon at all and still shot him three times. There must be a problem in the US. Either the cops are very badly trained or the people are very dangerous and even a routine traffic stop leads to shootings. Whatever the case, you guys should really deal with it. 

That is what happens when you hire un-educated thugs. Give em a badge and all of a sudden they are above everyone else, invincible even.

After watching the footage of the incident it only supports what I initially suspected, which is that this is yet another case of extremely confrontational policing where excessive force was used. I don't see how anyone can watch the footage and claim that they think such conduct is appropriate. This is yet another case that has been swept under the rug, with the officer not facing any charges.

 

Exactly, if you watch the dash footage it paints a completely different story than the sobbing youtube video. Why was he crying again? This isn't his first shooting.

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theyarecomingforyou    10,428

Exactly, if you watch the dash footage it paints a completely different story than the sobbing youtube video. Why was he crying again? This isn't his first shooting.

Indeed. When you look at the aggressive, confrontational actions of the officer it paints an entirely different story. Yet this story is portraying the officer as the victim, as the one we should feel sorry for. The officer should be in jail.

 

I'm glad that people in the US are finally starting to wake up to the nature of police brutality in the US and that we're seeking widescale protests against it. When people see incidents like this they should be shocked, not indifferent or supportive.

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Rohdekill    781

There should be rules of engagement for police officers.  Do not shoot unless fired upon.  Enough with the police thinking they have the right to shoot anyone for any reason.  This person was in a vehicle, all the officer had to do was walk away, if they didn't feel safe (and then walk on home and find another job).

 

Seriously??  What good does it do anyone to allow them to only shoot after being shot at?

 

Sure, let's just allow the criminals to gather their guns, load the rounds, take careful, close up aim of your head, shoot.....and only then allow you to defend yourself....while you're brain is splattered across the sidewalk.  Sounds legit.

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DocM    16,881

So the cop never saw a gun or any weapon at all and still shot him three times. There must be a problem in the US. Either the cops are very badly trained or the people are very dangerous and even a routine traffic stop leads to shootings. Whatever the case, you guys should really deal with it.

The bold part is extremely true. Traffic stops and domestic dispute calls are just about the most dangerous things cops do.

The problem here is that the guy was fumbling around his belt, which is exactly where hoods carry their weapons - tucked into their pants.

Being in the back seat of the at the cops visibility of that area is restricted by the cars structure. If the cop waits until he sees the weapon it may well be the last thing he sees.

As to "non-lethals": show me the tear gas dispenser or Taser that could go through a closed rear side window. And by the way, there's no such thing as a non-lethal. There are less-lethals, but no non's.

As to dealing with it, the cop did. Tragic, but compliance by the guy would have prevented it.

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Nogib    961

One dead druggie means the world is a better place.  This guy shouldn't have shed one tear.

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Memphis    1,213

This was murder, plain and simple, it always shocks me when cases like this never make as much news as they should. This officer had the option of the taser.

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HawkMan    5,232

One dead druggie means the world is a better place.  This guy shouldn't have shed one tear.

 

Wow... that is the most ignorant thing I've read in a very long time...

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DocM    16,881

This was murder, plain and simple, it always shocks me when cases like this never make as much news as they should. This officer had the option of the taser.

It's winter. The rear side window was most likely closed. Show me a Taser that can shoot through auto safety glass.
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Memphis    1,213

It's winter. The rear side window was most likely closed. Show me a Taser that can shoot through auto safety glass.

 

Door was open, window was not broken during the shooting. This officer had the ability to pull his taser before the gun and use that and should have. I have stuck up for officers on other threads, but I cannot on this one.

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DocM    16,881

The guy was on a mega-meth dose. You of all people should know that meth heads don't respond to Tasers like normal people do, if at all. I've seen them rip the electrode out and keep fighting. With him reaching for his belt the cop has to assume the worst.

Good example

http://uproxx.com/webculture/2013/12/oregon-man-cops-masturbating-meth/

Meet The Oregon Meth Head Who Fought Off A Dozen Cops And Multiple Taser Zaps, All While Masturbating

>

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chrisj1968    1,417

After watching the footage of the incident it only supports what I initially suspected, which is that this is yet another case of extremely confrontational policing where excessive force was used. I don't see how anyone can watch the footage and claim that they think such conduct is appropriate. This is yet another case that has been swept under the rug, with the officer not facing any charges.

 

Not true. if you were a cop, had a family, i was the suspect or person in question, what woudl YOU do. we are keyboard lawyers here..sort of. We weren't there. if I reached inside my waistband, you would have NO clue if I had a gun or a knife. You might not make it home that night due to a mistake. Being a cop would suck because, think of all the sewage they deal with on a daily basis. they've heard all the excuses before.

 

DocM you trip me out with some funny stuff sometimes.

 

 

Meet The Oregon Meth Head Who Fought Off A Dozen Cops And Multiple Taser Zaps, All While Masturbating

 

Lol.

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ctebah    3,389

Door was open, window was not broken during the shooting. This officer had the ability to pull his taser before the gun and use that and should have. I have stuck up for officers on other threads, but I cannot on this one.

 

Me neither.  The officer can shed a million tears but it won't bring back the guy.  You know there's something wrong with a country when cops can shoot people with such a freedom and without consequences.

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