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Montana police officer breaks down after fatally shooting unarmed man

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Memphis    1,213

The guy was on a mega-meth dose. You of all people should know that meth heads don't respond to Tasers like normal people do, if at all. I've seen them rip the electrode out and keep fighting. With him reaching for his belt the cop has to assume the worst.

Good example

http://uproxx.com/webculture/2013/12/oregon-man-cops-masturbating-meth/

 

 

The officer had no way of knowing he was on meth and resorted to the gun first. Meth does not guarantee a taser will be ineffective by any means whatsoever, The misconception is that a taser guarantees COMPLIANCE once the taser is turned off. While on, it will guarantee compliance until turned off as long as its made proper contact. 

Not true. if you were a cop, had a family, i was the suspect or person in question, what woudl YOU do. we are keyboard lawyers here..sort of. We weren't there. if I reached inside my waistband, you would have NO clue if I had a gun or a knife. You might not make it home that night due to a mistake. Being a cop would suck because, think of all the sewage they deal with on a daily basis. they've heard all the excuses before.

 

DocM you trip me out with some funny stuff sometimes.

 

 

Lol.

 

Ive had to pull my firearm before and I carry daily. This was still murder in my opinion.

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DocM    16,881

So have I.

Another problem with a Taser is was he wearing a winter coat, especially a leather ranch coat as is so popular out west? It won't penetrate. Just like here where people wear parkas.

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Memphis    1,213

Another problem with a Taser is was he wearing a winter coat, especially a leather ranch coat as is so popular out west? It won't penetrate. Just like here where people wear parkas.

 

Again, no attempt was made, so we can conveniently never know if the officer had a chance with the taser or not because he reached for his gun before even reaching the car. The officer never had the intent of even trying the taser. If all cops responded like this to a passenger who is high in the backseat, we would have cop shootings daily. Again, I cant take you seriously DocM as in your mind, the cops are always right.

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LaP    2,353

Now that i've seen the video i can't believe the police officer is getting away with nothing.

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theyarecomingforyou    10,428

It's winter. The rear side window was most likely closed. Show me a Taser that can shoot through auto safety glass.

If you're going to make excuses at least watch the footage first. Even if we were to accept that a taser wasn't the appropriate tool, I think we can agree that a firearm wasn't either. Police officers cannot just be thugs who shoot anyone who makes them jumpy - they need to be trained to assess and defuse the situation. Getting up in people's faces, swearing and pulling a gun is not good policing - it produces a negative response.

 

The guy was on a mega-meth dose. You of all people should know that meth heads don't respond to Tasers like normal people do, if at all. I've seen them rip the electrode out and keep fighting. With him reaching for his belt the cop has to assume the worst.

The officer was extremely confrontational and aggressive, repeatedly swearing at the man and escalating the situation. He didn't see a weapon and had no reason to use lethal force. This is yet another case of a poorly trained police officer resorting to lethal force because he panicked. When you give officers the ability to use lethal force and there are no consequences for abusing that power you create a climate that incentivises the use of lethal force. Only be prosecuting officers like this can you hope to address the situation.

 

One dead druggie means the world is a better place.

I honestly don't understand how anyone could have so little empathy. Had your upbringing been different it could have easily been you in this situation. Such contempt for your fellow man is what leads to fascism, to people like Hitler.

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chrisj1968    1,417

Again, no attempt was made, so we can conveniently never know if the officer had a chance with the taser or not because he reached for his gun before even reaching the car. The officer never had the intent of even trying the taser. If all cops responded like this to a passenger who is high in the backseat, we would have cop shootings daily. Again, I cant take you seriously DocM as in your mind, the cops are always right.

 

I'd think based upon what you said, you could be right. on second thought, patrol cars are outfitted with cams and they store the data i think in the cars trunk. So someone had to edit the footage. I think they start the video recording at the moment of flashing their lights or at the stop. either way, there's a lot of footage missing

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123456789A    4,710

I prefer not to execute nonviolent criminals. The nonviolent ones can usually be reformed through hard labor on a chain gang. Violent criminals should be executed immediately though.

 

In this case the meth user should have been sentenced to 10 years of hard labor.

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DocM    16,881

I prefer not to execute nonviolent criminals. The nonviolent ones can usually be reformed through hard labor

>

According to the National Institute of Justice the recidivism rates for non-violent offenders is higher.

Property crimes: 82.1%

Drug offenders: 76.9%

Violent offenders: 71.3%

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MorganX    1,044

The officer had no way of knowing he was on meth and resorted to the gun first. Meth does not guarantee a taser will be ineffective by any means whatsoever, The misconception is that a taser guarantees COMPLIANCE once the taser is turned off. While on, it will guarantee compliance until turned off as long as its made proper contact. 

 

Ive had to pull my firearm before and I carry daily. This was still murder in my opinion.

 

Being on Meth does and should guarantee you give the officer the benefit of the doubt until evidence shows otherwise. Before I say more I'd better go learn the details of the shooting.

 

Just say nope to dope, and do snitch on drug dealers.

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Memphis    1,213

Being on Meth does and should guarantee you give the officer the benefit of the doubt until evidence shows otherwise. Before I say more I'd better go learn the details of the shooting.

 

Just say nope to dope, and do snitch on drug dealers.

 

 

No it doesn't, unlike most here, I get to deal with people on meth on a daily basis. We get them for detox all the time on my floor. Even had a few leave the floor to "have a cigg" a day or so before discharge, only to come back high on meth. Meth is a helluva drug, but it doesnt make you invincible, We assigned 5 foot 4 woman without guns to do 1 on 1 watching of meth patients on detox and if they get crazy we call a code grey and security arrives sure, but we've never needed a gun yet.

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123456789A    4,710

According to the National Institute of Justice the recidivism rates for non-violent offenders is higher.

Property crimes: 82.1%

Drug offenders: 76.9%

Violent offenders: 71.3%

 

Is there a breakdown of the nonviolent offenders who have had to serve on a chain gang? Imagine if all the nonviolent offenders were forced to manufacture iPhones instead of just lounging around all day. I'm sure they would not repeat offend.

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MorganX    1,044

No it doesn't, unlike most here, I get to deal with people on meth on a daily basis. We get them for detox all the time on my floor. Even had a few leave the floor to "have a cigg" a day or so before discharge, only to come back high on meth. Meth is a helluva drug, but it doesnt make you invincible, We assigned 5 foot 4 woman without guns to do 1 on 1 watching of meth patients on detox and if they get crazy we call a code grey and security arrives sure, but we've never needed a gun yet.

 

I don't disagree with any of that. But if you're high on meth and behave in such a way, and put yourself in a life situation that, gets you killed by a police officer, I will give that officer the benefit of the doubt until I here evidence to the contrary. I won't in that situation, give the benefit of the doubt to the individual on meth. Keep in mind, I don't know the details, which I will read later, just the result.

Is there a breakdown of the nonviolent offenders who have had to serve on a chain gang? Imagine if all the nonviolent offenders were forced to manufacture iPhones instead of just lounging around all day. I'm sure they would not repeat offend.

 

roflmao. excellent question.

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Jim K    15,701

No it doesn't, unlike most here, I get to deal with people on meth on a daily basis. We get them for detox all the time on my floor. Even had a few leave the floor to "have a cigg" a day or so before discharge, only to come back high on meth. Meth is a helluva drug, but it doesnt make you invincible, We assigned 5 foot 4 woman without guns to do 1 on 1 watching of meth patients on detox and if they get crazy we call a code grey and security arrives sure, but we've never needed a gun yet.

 

Your scenario is completely irrelevant when compared to the cops.

 

Feel bad for the druggy and the cop...but the druggy chose his way of life and ultimately paid for.  If anything, this should teach people to obey what the cops say.  Don't argue/fight/assault/etc a cop and you won't get popped.  I mean, if the guy was calmly following orders and the cop shot him...then sure...the cop should be punished.  However, as soon as you act in a threatening manner (i.e. if you're reaching for something under your belt)...all bets are off.  Cops live and die by split second decisions...and they do a job I couldn't imagine doing.    Cop pulls me over...I'm following all their instructions.  

 

It really isn't that hard...

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TMYW    61

People are always quick to judge the actions of others under the pretenses that they know all the facts surrounding the actions. This is the definition of prejudice! We always hear minority groups screaming and yelling that white America is prejudice against them or that cops are prejudice against them and while I will not argue that there are some parts of society that are prejudice against minorities, I have personally found it very rare that minorities not be prejudice against me. I can't tell you how many times I have been held accountable in someones mind for something my ancestors may or may not have done. I digress, it is just interesting to me to see what happens when someone is open to see the other side of things how much their opinions change. Here's a great example of a "Black Lives Matter" protester who is invited by the police to a force training exercise - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qE7DtMtymyU

 

Prejudice = noun

Prejudiced = adjective

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TMYW    61

I think its stupid that ppl go crazy and militant to try make these ppl into victims.  Michael Brown isnt a victim, meth heads arent victims, and as much as I dislike cops, no one is marching/rioting for them.

 

If you are undeservingly killed, you ARE a victim. Forget the fact that he was on meth. Change it to drunk off his ass. Or going into diabetic hypoglycemia. Are you going to say that he's deserving of getting shot and killed then? Your view is completely skewed simply because we have such draconian policies of enforcing victimless crimes. What exactly did this meth head do to you for you to place such a low value on this man's life?

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Memphis    1,213

Your scenario is completely irrelevant when compared to the cops.

 

Feel bad for the druggy and the cop...but the druggy chose his way of life and ultimately paid for.  If anything, this should teach people to obey what the cops say.  Don't argue/fight/assault/etc a cop and you won't get popped.  I mean, if the guy was calmly following orders and the cop shot him...then sure...the cop should be punished.  However, as soon as you act in a threatening manner (i.e. if you're reaching for something under your belt)...all bets are off.  Cops live and die by split second decisions...and they do a job I couldn't imagine doing.    Cop pulls me over...I'm following all their instructions.  

 

It really isn't that hard...

 

I have zero empathy for the victims lifestyle, but that doesn't excuse the cop of murder.

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techbeck    7,387

Guy should have listened to the cop.  In the end, that is really what triggered/escalated things.  You reach for your side, pocket, waste band...bad things can and will happen.  And there have been numour stories over the years where cops showed patience only to get themselves killed as well.  But hey, I guess that is what they signed up for and goes with the job.  Not to mention that considering what has been happening with cops/shootings, people would listen a little more to cops.  Police are even getting ambushed and murdered themseves.

 

And all the video shows is the shoulders/upper part of the guy who was shot.  You dont see what the guy in the car is doing Cannot assume and think things if you were not there.  Body cams will help but it wont be long before people will start claiming the footage was edited/altered.   And here is what meth does to you and played a big part.  Maybe if the guy wasnt high as a kite, he would have understood the commands better.

 

Problems with police?  Sure, big problems but not ever cop is bad.  What happened in NYC with the choke hold, cops fault.  There are cases where it is clearly one sides fault but, just cannot see enough to know for sure.   If this had gone to trial, no way he would have been convicted either.

 

Meth Harm

SHORT-TERM EFFECTS

  • Loss of appetite
  • Increased heart rate, blood pressure, body temperature
  • Dilation of pupils
  • Disturbed sleep patterns
  • Nausea
  • Bizarre, erratic, sometimes violent behavior
  • Hallucinations, hyperexcitability, irritability
  • Panic and psychosis
  • Convulsions, seizures and death from high doses

LONG-TERM EFFECTS

  • Permanent damage to blood vessels of heart and brain, high blood pressure leading to heart attacks, strokes and death
  • Liver, kidney and lung damage
  • Destruction of tissues in nose if sniffed
  • Respiratory (breathing) problems if smoked
  • Infectious diseases and abscesses if injected
  • Malnutrition, weight loss
  • Severe tooth decay
  • Disorientation, apathy, confused exhaustion
  • Strong psychological dependence
  • Psychosis
  • Depression
  • Damage to the brain similar to Alzheimer

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Noir Angel    4,277

The parents comments  "he was a good person"  "they didnt have to do that to them"     Well, if you have a criminal record, parents did something wrong.  If you high on meth, parents did something wrong.  This is not a good person, period.

 

I still keep hearing this argument and my response to it will be the same... If you think taking someone's life because they were on drugs and / or had a record for minor crime is a proportional response, you're a sociopath.

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techbeck    7,387

I still keep hearing this argument and my response to it will be the same... If you think taking someone's life because they were on drugs and / or had a record for minor crime is a proportional response, you're a sociopath.

 

 

Read a little.  I made a comment/opinion about him being a good person.  Comments I made about him being shot was that if he would have listened to the cops, not been high, and not messing with his waste area (like the cop said but again, you dont see that in the vid), this would never have happened.

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techbeck    7,387

The officer had no way of knowing he was on meth and resorted to the gun first.

 

He was a heavy meth user.  You can tell by just looking at someone if they are using or not.  And by their actions/body language.  This is part of the training cops go through as well.  There are also many pics of people who they looked before getting hooked on meth, and how they look a few years later.  Looks like they had been hit with a truck, rotted teeth, scabs, needle marks...not pretty

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TMYW    61

 

Guy should have listened to the cop.  In the end, that is really what triggered/escalated things.  You reach for your side, pocket, waste band...bad things can and will happen.  And there have been numour stories over the years where cops showed patience only to get themselves killed as well.  But hey, I guess that is what they signed up for and goes with the job.  Not to mention that considering what has been happening with cops/shootings, people would listen a little more to cops.  Police are even getting ambushed and murdered themseves.

 

So we've now reached the point in which police are so frightened that just about anybody could be packing heat that if you so much as sneeze and make a sudden motion, you're likely to get your head blown off. Awesome!

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techbeck    7,387

So we've now reached the point in which police are so frightened that just about anybody could be packing heat that if you so much as sneeze and make a sudden motion, you're likely to get your head blown off. Awesome!

 

When cops are murdered and ambushed, yea I would be frightened on on edge to.  Bad for civilians, bad for cops.

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DocM    16,881

I still keep hearing this argument and my response to it will be the same... If you think taking someone's life because they were on drugs and / or had a record for minor crime is a proportional response, you're a sociopath.

That's not why he was shot. He was shot because a cop gave a valid command during a stop and instead of complying he reacted in a manner that is often threatening. Repeated commands got no response, so the cop upped the tone. Still nada.

Cops often die from people reaching into their pants or a pocket and producing a weapon, and they usually aren't readily visible before they go boom,

Also remember that this is Montana where meth labs are an epidemic that makes Breaking Bad look tame. About 33% of the men in prison are meth heads, and about 60% of the women. Until recently up to 8% of the kids were using. Its still about 2% for kids.

People on meth can go bats*** crazy violent in a heartbeat, so Montana street cops are on a hair trigger when people start acting suspicious.

That's not abuse, it's survival.

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TMYW    61

He was a heavy meth user.  You can tell by just looking at someone if they are using or not.  And by their actions/body language.

 

You're now arguing for the case that the cop should have known NOT to shoot the guy then. So why are you blaming this guy for getting shot? You're contradicting yourself big-time.

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techbeck    7,387

You're now arguing for the case that the cop should have known NOT to shoot the guy then. So why are you blaming this guy for getting shot? You're contradicting yourself big-time.

 

No, I am not.  Yes, the cop probably knew he was on meth.  But look at what meth does to people on a mental level.  Makes them violent, makes then unpredictable.  And no telling what he was reaching for, if what the cop said was true.  Just because someone knows another is on meth, doesnt make the situation easier.  Its not like, oh I know you are on meth and because of that, you dont have to follow orders and if you are reaching or something, you are no threat.  Just on meth.  The fact the guy was on meth made the situation worse.

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