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soniqstylz

lets hope for a sequel, now that they have got the engine and artwork down, maybe they focus more extending gameplay and adding more to it.

 

Kind of torn on that -- in order to get a sequel, it's going to have to sell in numbers.  I waited until Ground Zeros was $10 because of the length, and wasn't planning on picking this up until the price dropped, and that's BEFORE I found out THERE'S BARELY ANY GODDAMNED WEREWOLVES!

 

I was promised werewolves, dammit.

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soniqstylz

In discussing The Order: 1886 amongst the team (John Linneman is working on a deeper look at the tech we'll run this weekend), one game dominated the conversation - Crytek's Ryse. Rightly lambasted for its disappointing gameplay, from a visual perspective there's clearly much in common between the Xbox One launch game and Ready at Dawn's PS4 debut.

 

Both share a similar aesthetic, built on a combination of superb art direction and an advanced, consistent, state-of-the-art rendering pipeline. Equally clear is that the emphasis on the visual component of the experience has an undesirable impact on the quality of the overall package. Ryse suffers from one-note gameplay mechanics, while The Order: 1886 tantalises with moments of brilliance but is over all too quickly, with a profoundly disappointing conclusion.

 

Fundamentally, it all comes back to the point we made in our 2014 gaming round-up - graphics are evolving at a breakneck pace, but gameplay remains rooted very much in the last generation. And perhaps what disappoints the most with The Order: 1886 is that this imbalance is actively tipping in the wrong direction - where the emphasis on the graphical glory actively seems to come at the expense of the quality of the gameplay.

 

 

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2015-the-order-1886-performance-analysis

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Polonium

Yet again, define last gen gameplay and new gen gameplay... I'm at a loss at what the difference is.

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nosense

Yet again, define last gen gameplay and new gen gameplay... I'm at a loss at what the difference is.

The wording could of been better, but i think it ment that the gameplay is "Dated\Been there,done that\Nothing new".

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trag3dy

"rooted in the last generation"? What is that even supposed to mean? Are they trying to say at some point in time people actually liked AAA titles that were short in game length, linear, and full of qtes, and reused a lot of art assets (entire rooms used over and over) with no replay value what so ever? Not to mention a blatant ending that says they're intended to make a sequel? 

 

I watched some one stream this game last night and it took them about 6 hours to beat the entire game on hard difficulty. That's just pathetic and hilarious at the same time.

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Polonium

The wording could of been better, but i think it ment that the gameplay is "Dated\Been there,done that\Nothing new".

 

So COD isn't dated/been there done that then? That seems to get good scores every year regardless of generation.

 

The review system is fundamentally broken. 

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+Audioboxer

Its a legitimate complaint to an extent, but not on face value of the actual words used. They in themselves are as stupid as saying Driveclubs racing was outdated - As we all questioned how can a circuit racer be done differently?

In a TPS game you need enthralling set pieces to mask the gameplay which will always follow some sort of hiding behind cover and shooting. I mean no reviewers criticised The Last of Us or Uncharted for outdated gameplay but that's because those games have amazing set pieces. Both of them have a ton of shooting, a lot of cover based gameplay and finally are fairly linear (again good use of set pieces give scope to backdrops and locations).

The Order seems to lack the magic touch ND put in their games but for christs sake let's give RAD another chance if they can financially support it and not wish a new IP with some promise drops dead.

Uncharted 4 will come out and show them how it is done, and if they haven't learned from the previous ND games as of yet, they'll have to from here. Another The Order game won't survive in any shape or form after Uncharted 4 if it doesn't take notice.

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nosense

So COD isn't dated/been there done that then? That seems to get good scores every year regardless of generation.

 

The review system is fundamentally broken. 

What does COD have to do with anything? It maybe the same thing year after year with some slight tweaks.  But people enjoy it and have fun with the game and provides tons of replay value, that's why it reviews so well. I don't like COD, but the review is fine for that game. Tons of people i know who play that series love it. COD excels at what it does and the order 1886 is not even in the same league as other TPS games like uncharted\gears\last of us\etc from last gen.

 

The review system is not flawed, its a opinion.

 

Let's face it, the order 1886 brought nothing new to the table, 2 plus hours of cinematics and QTE, 6-8 hours to complete, so so storyline, no replay value. It's a generic on rails third person cover shooter.

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DirtyLarry

It is literally astounding to me the amount of hate this game is receiving. It is not warranted whatsoever.

Yes, it is not doing anything new at all from a gameplay standpoint, but the QTE's are nowhere near as bad as they are made out to be (I expected 5-10 minute long sequences, instead they are brief 15 second ones seamlessly woven into the gameplay) and the actually shooting itself very much reminds me of Spec Ops: The Line, which I really enjoyed, but I actually think it is better. The guns all have their own individual weight and are pretty damn satisfying. The game is no doubt a gorgeous shooting gallery.

 

And at the end of the day I believe that is the true purpose of The Order. To showcase the amazing visuals. It is easily the best looking console game, and as someone who has been gaming now on the PC for 15 years, I have no issue saying the engine itself is one of the best engines from a graphical standpoint ever made. I truly hope they let other developers use it, as seeing this engine in action on the PC would truly be amazing. It is seriously one of the best engines overall on any platform. Screenshots do not do it justice. In motion it is so damn good.

 

The amount of hate this game is getting, even from the gaming media, just is a huge reminder to myself as to why the past few years I find myself not wanting to associate with the gaming community at all. Something has changed since I first started participating in gaming forums 13 years ago. Everyone is so damn fickle and cynical. It really is unfortunate. People get worked up over the silliest things and treat the whole medium so damn seriously. No one seems to remember or care about the fact games are meant to be enjoyed while playing. Not analyzed.

 

I could not recommend to everyone that the game is worth $60. That is just not the truth. It was worth it to me, and there are going to be others it will be worth it as well. I can say everyone should at the very least rent it and/or wait until it is on sale.

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+Audioboxer

It is literally astounding to me the amount of hate this game is receiving. It is not warranted whatsoever.

Yes, it is not doing anything new at all from a gameplay standpoint, but the QTE's are nowhere near as bad as they are made out to be (I expected 5-10 minute long sequences, instead they are brief 15 second ones seamlessly woven into the gameplay) and the actually shooting itself very much reminds me of Spec Ops: The Line, which I really enjoyed, but I actually think it is better. The guns all have their own individual weight and are pretty damn satisfying. The game is no doubt a gorgeous shooting gallery.

 

And at the end of the day I believe that is the true purpose of The Order. To showcase the amazing visuals. It is easily the best looking console game, and as someone who has been gaming now on the PC for 15 years, I have no issue saying the engine itself is one of the best engines from a graphical standpoint ever made. I truly hope they let other developers use it, as seeing this engine in action on the PC would truly be amazing. It is seriously one of the best engines overall on any platform. Screenshots do not do it justice. In motion it is so damn good.

 

The amount of hate this game is getting, even from the gaming media, just is a huge reminder to myself as to why the past few years I find myself not wanting to associate with the gaming community at all. Something has changed since I first started participating in gaming forums 13 years ago. Everyone is so damn fickle and cynical. It really is unfortunate. People get worked up over the silliest things and treat the whole medium so damn seriously. No one seems to remember or care about the fact games are meant to be enjoyed while playing. Not analyzed.

 

I could not recommend to everyone that the game is worth $60. That is just not the truth. It was worth it to me, and there are going to be others it will be worth it as well. I can say everyone should at the very least rent it and/or wait until it is on sale.

 

Thanks Larry!

 

I will pick it up myself when it's cheaper in the UK to experience the graphics/engine alone. As someone who used to be an avid PC gamer and get excited when I got a new graphics card and played the same games over but even prettier, I do unashamedly have a soft spot for being wowed visually. It's never something I've put so high on a pedestal it's above story or gameplay, but it is pleasing to the eye when something looks beautiful (whether its raw technology or an artistic masterpiece). As time has gone on and budgets changed priority as I've gotten older it's become easier to be swept away on the console ship of buy a box, not need to touch it for years, but still experience great visuals.

 

It seems it would be good to see the studio do a sequel now that all the groundwork has been laid and they can take constructive criticism on board to focus on other elements than the engine/graphics. It is quite clear a massive focus has gone into the graphics to try and ride their claims of cinematic, probably at the expense of gameplay/length/story, but it doesn't seem like a terrible first outing for a studio who has been making PSP games prior to this. I mean I did see some reviews at 1/5, it just doesn't seem that fundamentally broken to merit that kind of score - And I am saying that as someone who hasn't played the game, but a score that dire really should be awarded to really poor and/or broken games.

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DirtyLarry

It seems it would be good to see the studio do a sequel now that all the groundwork has been laid and they can take constructive criticism on board to focus on other elements than the engine/graphics. It is quite clear a massive focus has gone into the graphics to try and ride their claims of cinematic, probably at the expense of gameplay/length/story, but it doesn't seem like a terrible first outing for a studio who has been making PSP games prior to this. I mean I did see some reviews at 1/5, it just doesn't seem that fundamentally broken to merit that kind of score - And I am saying that as someone who hasn't played the game, but a score that dire really should be awarded to really poor and/or broken games.

It is nowhere, nowhere, near a 1/5. That is what I am just finding astounding. It is like the gaming media is actually being harder on it because the visuals are so good. That if you have these good of visuals, they need to have the best gameplay ever known to man as well, or else the game is a complete failure. That is truly unfortunate.

 

And I no doubt like good visuals as well. Even though I am very adamant about gameplay > graphics every day of the week, hell, I like pretty graphics. I truly do. And just wow. Wow. And I will say this right now as well. I think the black bars were a brilliant design decision. Wether it was for technical reasons or truly for the "cinematic" look, I personally love it. Does really create a beautiful overall composition. And truth is with the lights out on my 55" HDTV, I cannot even tell they are not filling up the whole screen. They just look like amazing graphics but with a wider movie like perspective that is not normal. It is an awesome approach and truly does make it have a very filmic quality. I am also that person that always, never even questions it, buys the Widescreen version of movies as well. Has always been the aspect ratio I think produces more artistic visuals.

 

You know thinking about it some more, I think the fact they are a PSP developer really does shed some light on things overall. The gameplay is simpler. Smaller in size. The type of gameplay that seems big on a handheld, but once it is on a console, seems simpler. This does show. Like one of the more annoying things is you can pick up items and look at them. Just look at them. Some of them you can flip them over. But that is literally it. It seems so unnecessary. But it is that type of filler stuff you find on a handheld game. It is like they wanted to do more, but did not quite know how or did not have the time to do so. Could be either or. I think if they were to employ a few more people with nothing but PC and console experience, and bring them together with what is clearly a team that has a whole lot of potential, they could really deliver a potentially classic of a sequel.

 

The other thing I can say is I am not a cut scene guy. Really usually do not even pay attention to them, so the fact the cutscenes are not skippable is unfortunate. But I actually liked them in this game since it is such a looker. And they made them really mean a whole lot to the story. I really, truly do not mind the cut scenes, and I would totally admit if they did bother me. For some reason they do not.

 

But the hate is simply just not warranted. The gun play is really solid. Really solid. I personally have always been a fan of the get in cover, pop out, get back in cover and line up your shot, then pop back out with a headshot gunplay that the game is. It is a classic approach. There's also some great weapons. Charging up the Arc Cannon and just frying someones head off in one shot if you get it. Yeah, that is some satisfying ######.  :shiftyninja:

 

I know I am near the end of the game since I happened to read some of the breakdowns earlier in the week (although I am on a particularly stubborn area I keep dying in), and I looked pretty much in every corner as well, and I am nearing between 7 and 8 hours spent. That is on the low end hours wise yes, and the exact reason why I cannot recommend the game to everyone at full price. If it was twice as long it would be an easy recommendation, but then I also feel it would have no doubt dragged.

 

Ultimately I think them making it shorter in length since it is simpler in gameplay was a very wise decision. Seems to be one that ###### a lot of people off as well LOL But it was a wise decision. In fact I think it no doubt has helped in my personal enjoyment of the game.

 

I actually am very confident time is going to be kind to The Order 1886. I think a lot of people are avoiding it now based on ###### reviews. I also know out of those people they still know how good it looks, so have an interest. So once the game drops in price, and / or people borrow their friends copies and/or it comes to PS+, more people will get to play the game for themselves. I NO DOUBT believe once that happens, people are going to sit there and say the same thing I am saying right now. The game did not deserve all the hate.

 

It will however also be that game that the constantly cynical among the community will always point to. Yes it is short. Yes, it has cutscenes. Yes, it even has black bars. For some people those reasons will be all they need to point to the game sucking. That is their opinion and they are entitled to it. Even if they are dead wrong, they are entitled to be.  :rofl:

 

A gorgeous shooting gallery. I said it earlier and I believe I will keep saying it. I personally believe that is really the best description for the game.

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soniqstylz

A gorgeous shooting gallery. I said it earlier and I believe I will keep saying it. I personally believe that is really the best description for the game.

 

That Sony is selling for $60.

 

That's the problem.  If the price was dropped before launch to $40, it would be less of an issue.  Telltale games last longer than this.  Maybe it should've been a Vita game.

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+Asmodai

That Sony is selling for $60.

 

That's the problem.  If the price was dropped before launch to $40, it would be less of an issue.  Telltale games last longer than this.  Maybe it should've been a Vita game.

For me it's a $3 Redbox rental but it IS a "rental" and not a "skip it". With zero replay value and no multiplayer there is no reason (for me) to buy the game at any price (well unless they had it for like $10.) I'll rent it, (hopefully) enjoy the story and graphics, finish it in a day on the weekend... maybe two so that puts it a $6 total rental. It's totally worth a $6 rental to me... that's like going to a movie entertainment prices.

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Lamp0

They just look like amazing graphics but with a wider movie like perspective that is not normal. It is an awesome approach and truly does make it have a very filmic quality. I am also that person that always, never even questions it, buys the Widescreen version of movies as well. Has always been the aspect ratio I think produces more artistic visuals.

 

I have to call this BS on this. But don't get me wrong, I don't dislike widescreen but I don't think it makes sense to consider it inherently more artistic a format.

 

Also interesting to here your thoughts on the game, I definatly want to play it, even it's just for the graphics & overall visual design, clearly the team put alot of work into that aspect of it.

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elenarie

I don't quite get this MJ? I agree with your argument that The Order could have done with pricing a bit lower than RRP but any time a PC argument is brought into console discussion it is usually unfair. A graphics card that can run 4K at 60FPS will cost you near enough the cost of a PS4 (

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compl3x

That Sony is selling for $60.

 

That's the problem.  If the price was dropped before launch to $40, it would be less of an issue.  Telltale games last longer than this.  Maybe it should've been a Vita game.

 

$40? Keep dropping, bruh.

 

PS4 is for the players, that shouldn't mean we're supposed to pay a premium for games that are more tech-demos than games.

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Polonium

They are not excuses? Some people have bought and enjoyed the game. It's called an opinion.

 

Not everybody will enjoy it, and not everybody will be willing to pay the asking the price but they are all just opinions, not excuses. The developers set out to make this sort of game and from that angle, they have achieved it. Just because the media have decided to rip it a new one doesn't mean people are giving excuses.

 

The answer is simple here, if it's not your sort of game, don't buy it. If it is your sort of game, buy it. One thing is clear, too many people with no intention of buying it ever are all enjoying being negative. 

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compl3x

They are not excuses? Some people have bought and enjoyed the game. It's called an opinion.

 

Not everybody will enjoy it, and not everybody will be willing to pay the asking the price but they are all just opinions, not excuses. The developers set out to make this sort of game and from that angle, they have achieved it. Just because the media have decided to rip it a new one doesn't mean people are giving excuses.

 

The answer is simple here, if it's not your sort of game, don't buy it. If it is your sort of game, buy it. One thing is clear, too many people with no intention of buying it ever are all enjoying being negative. 

 

 

You're right. It is about opinion. Negative opinions are equally as valid as positive ones.

 

So far the opinion about this title has not been favourable beyond its presentation. It seems that it focuses on showing off the technical capabilities of the system but offers a short and all too familiar gaming experience.

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Polonium

You're right. It is about opinion. Negative opinions are equally as valid as positive ones.

 

So far the opinion about this title has not been favourable beyond its presentation. It seems that it focuses on showing off the technical capabilities of the system but offers a short and all too familiar gaming experience.

 

Indeed - but then I'm not ignoring the negative opinions, or positive for that matter. I was simply replying to the 'this game has too many excuses' comment.

 

The game developers set out to make this game from the start, if we are all being honest we knew that but as per usual the gaming media and gamers themselves like to hype things up beyond to all sorts of silly levels. 

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citan

Hm, I have to admit I really dig the atmosphere in this game, I'm still holding off my decision to buy a PS4 at the moment, maybe a Slim version will appear or something. But I definetely will get this :)

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+Audioboxer

Hm, I have to admit I really dig the atmosphere in this game, I'm still holding off my decision to buy a PS4 at the moment, maybe a Slim version will appear or something. But I definetely will get this :)

 

Your best bet would be sales in the summer/winter. I doubt we'll see a slim version until late 2016. Maybe some revised internals on a newer model (chip shrinkage), but I don't think the physical appearance will change for a while due to it already being quite small.

 

It's a good time to buy a PS4 if you're interested in Bloodborne, but other than that I'd wait a few months. With MS losing Februarys NPD they've become really aggressive with bundles at $359, if it wins them back March NPD, Sony may follow suit in the coming months with a price cut and/or attractive bundles. Waiting until E3 is always a good idea as well to see what the consoles short term future looks like. I think if Sony do dedicate GDC next week to Morpheus, it MIGHT see a late 2015 release (which again may impact PS4 pricing).

 

We should also get a good idea if Uncharted 4 is going to make 2015 at E3. At GDC we might get an idea of when MGS5 is going to launch as well - It'll probably be technically superior on the PS4, and with Kojima there's always a chance to see some extra content go the way of Playstation.

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citan

Your best bet would be sales in the summer/winter. I doubt we'll see a slim version until late 2016. Maybe some revised internals on a newer model (chip shrinkage), but I don't think the physical appearance will change for a while due to it already being quite small.

 

It's a good time to buy a PS4 if you're interested in Bloodborne, but other than that I'd wait a few months. With MS losing Februarys NPD they've become really aggressive with bundles at $359, if it wins them back March NPD, Sony may follow suit in the coming months with a price cut and/or attractive bundles. Waiting until E3 is always a good idea as well to see what the consoles short term future looks like. I think if Sony do dedicate GDC next week to Morpheus, it MIGHT see a late 2015 release (which again may impact PS4 pricing).

 

We should also get a good idea if Uncharted 4 is going to make 2015 at E3. At GDC we might get an idea of when MGS5 is going to launch as well - It'll probably be technically superior on the PS4, and with Kojima there's always a chance to see some extra content go the way of Playstation.

 

Thanks, yeah that was my idea, no rush :)

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      A couple of years ago, Sony found itself in hot water with gamers criticizing it for blocking crossplay even though developers were supporting it across Microsoft and Nintendo consoles as well as PC. This began with Minecraft in 2017, but extended to Rocket League and Fortnite, among other games. The official reasoning was around the lack of curation of online communities and how the PlayStation 4 is simply a superior experience and shouldn't be compromised by other platforms. Sony faced backlash not only from Microsoft but also from a former executive who claimed that the company is only blocking crossplay for money, which is "dumb". At Neowin, we wrote in length about why Sony's strategy should be for the players instead of for the business, but it wasn't until late 2018 that the company finally caved in to public demand and enabled crossplay in Fortnite.

      Now, some confidential emails between Epic Games and Sony have confirmed that the reason that the latter was blocking crossplay primarily for financial reasons.

      An email (pictured above) - procured by The Verge - from Epic’s vice president of business development Joe Kreiner indicates what Epic Games was offering in return for Sony enabling crossplay in Fortnite. This included a Sony-branded E3 appearance, an offer to make the company "look like heroes", exclusive items for PlayStation Plus, and an extension in Sony's company-wide Unreal Engine 4 license - which was about to expire in a few months -, among other things.

      However, Sony refused to budge at all, with its senior director Gio Corsi responding that:

      It's clear that Sony didn't see a financial and business benefit in enabling crossplay at that time, despite multiple incentives being offered by Epic Games.

      While we don't know how the issues discussed in the email exchange progressed, there is another slide that may shed some more light on the matter. It indicates that crossplay partners will be forced to pay Sony a royalty to "offset the reduction in revenue" if their player base meets a certain baseline.

      Simply stated, if the percentage of PS4 gamers and the share of total revenue they bring for the game is roughly equal and the latter is above 85%, no royalties need to be paid. But if there is a month where say, 95% of the player base uses PS4 but less than 85% of the total revenue is contributed by them, the developer will have to pay royalties to Sony according to a fixed formula. You can find more details in the slide below:

      While this makes sense from a business perspective if you work at Sony, Epic Games CEO Tim Sweeney testified yesterday that Sony is the only company that demands this compensation for enabling crossplay. Other demands made by Sony also include a setting to disable all crossplay interactions, and a policy that stipulates that virtual currencies can't be transferred to and from PlayStation.

      The case between Epic Games and Apple only kicked off yesterday, and as can be seen from the court documents in this article, it includes multiple other entities as well. It's likely we'll see dirty laundry from other companies being aired as the case progresses too.