• Sign in to Neowin Faster!

    Create an account on Neowin to contribute and support the site.

Sign in to follow this  

Now the U.S. Air Force Wants You to Believe the A-10 Is Too Old to Fight

Recommended Posts

webdev511    39

A-10 has caused most friendly fire and civilian deaths than any other plane in the US arsenal.  But I agree, this plane looks sick and is very good at it's job.

The only way you can come up with those numbers is by cherry picking, because that's what the USAF Brass did.

 

You could re-manufacture a good chunk of the A-10s in the boneyard with new wiring, new wings, updated engines, and add in FLIR to a new rev (call it an A-10D) for night time fun and games.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ryoken    1,004

 

2 star's 'treason' comments spark call for an investigation

 

A prominent lawmaker is calling for an investigation of a major general's reported comments blasting officers as treasonous if they work with Congress against Air Force plans to retire the A-10.
 
Maj. Gen. James Post, vice commander of Air Combat Command, reportedly told officers at a recent meeting of the Tactics Review Board at Nellis Air Force Base, Nevada, that they were not to speak with Congress about the service's attempt to retire the attack jet.
 
"Anyone who is passing information to Congress about A-10 capabilities is committing treason," Post is quoted by former airman and blogger Tony Carr as saying.
 
Post reportedly prefaced his comments by saying "if anyone accuses me of saying this, I will deny it," according to Carr's "John Q. Public" blog.
 
Senate Armed Services Committee chairman Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., who wants to keep the A-10 in service, has called on Air Force Secretary Deborah Lee James to investigate the reported comments, McCain spokesman Dustin Walker told Air Force Times.
 
The A-10's biggest supporter on Capitol Hill, Sen. Kelly Ayotte, R-N.H., told Air Force Times in a statement that she is "deeply disturbed" by the reported comments.
 
"U.S. law clearly states that 'No person may restrict a member of the armed forces in communicating with a member of Congress.' The Constitution defines treason as levying war against the United States in providing aid and comfort to our enemies," Ayotte said in the statement. "How could members of the armed forces exercising their lawful right to communicate with Congress be providing aid and comfort to our enemies? If the facts are on the Air Force's side regarding its efforts to prematurely divest the A-10, what does the Air Force fear?"
 
Air Combat Command said it does not have a transcript of the general's comments. However, his "use of hyperbole" was intended to prove a point, the command said in a statement.
 
"The Air Force decision on recommended actions/strategic choices for the constrained fiscal environment has been made and the service's position communicated," ACC said in a statement. "While subsequent government debate will continue at the highest levels as those recommendations and other options are evaluated, our job as airmen is to continue to execute our mission and duties

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DocM    16,544

What an asshat (the General.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ryoken    1,004

 

The Scandal of the Anti A-10 Campaign: Chickenhawk Chronicles Resume

What a spending battle over military aircraft reveals about our moral priorities
 
A week ago, my wife Deb and I were driving down Highway 85 in Arizona, toward the southern town of Ajo (which we'll soon be writing about) through the military's very active Barry Goldwater Range. Right above our car, A-10 "Warthogs" swooped back and forth over the highway in training drills. I mentioned last month that to fly a non-military plane along this route, as I had once contemplated, you have to fly right over the highway, stay within 500 feet of the road's surface level, and maintain radio contact with a military controller called Snake Eye. I didn't try it last month and am glad I didn't now, because on their mock strafing runs the Warthogs came impressively/alarmingly low. The picture above, from the Air Force, is a clearer version of what we saw as we drove.
 
But of course I'm glad to see the A-10s in action and their pilots maintaining proficiency, for reasons I laid out in my article "The Tragedy of the American Military." Let's consider the evolving fates of the A-10 and its ill-starred sibling, the F-35, for what they show about the modern military.
 
* * *
 
In my article I argued that the importance of the A-10/F-35 story had relatively little to do with the comparative virtues of either airplane

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DocM    16,544

^^ THAT would make a ton of sense, which means the idea is probably doomed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
FloatingFatMan    18,683

^^ THAT would make a ton of sense, which means the idea is probably doomed.

 

Indeed. The only "sense" the military knows, is "nonsense"! :p

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ryoken    1,004

 

Now the U.S. Air Force Wants to Replace A-10s With F-16s

An old idea?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
FloatingFatMan    18,683

Well, look on the bright side... At least you didn't scrap your current range of fighter planes in favour of ones not yet built, whilst at the same time finishing 2 brand new air craft carriers and ending up with nothing to put on the bloody things...

 

That takes a special kind of incompetence, that does!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ryoken    1,004

Good News Everyone!

 

The A-10 is now as good as saved!

 

 

Chuck Norris weighs in on A-10 debate.

 

As the Air Force tries to kill the A-10 Warthog, it may have just run up against a force it cannot defeat: Chuck Norris.
 
Norris, the martial artist, action movie star and international icon of absurdly competent manliness, on Sunday posted a column on the website World Net Daily titled "Save the A-10 Thunderbolt!" In it, Norris argues that the massive firepower, reliability and ability to save troops' lives through close-air support means "the A-10's utility is needed now more than ever."
 
The Air Force says tight budgets leave it with no choice but to divest the service's 273 A-10s and save more than $4 billion over five years. The Air Force argues other aircraft such as the F-35 can get the CAS job done if the Warthog is scrapped. But critics point out the F-35 won't be able to provide CAS until 2023.
 
The argument is becoming increasingly heated in the military community. Leading lawmakers such as Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., have worked to block the Air Force's efforts to kill the plane. Troops have spoken up online about their love for the Warthog, adopting the signature "brrrrrtttt" sound of its massive 30mm cannon as something of a rallying cry. And A-10 supporters bristled earlier this year when Maj. Gen. James Post, vice commander of Air Combat Command, reportedly said that anyone telling Congress about the A-10's capabilities "is committing treason," seeing it as an effort to quash dissent.
 
Norris disputed ACC chief Gen. Herbert "Hawk" Carlisle's conclusion that the Warthog must be replaced because "those airplanes are gonna wear out."
 
"But that statement is true of every airplane in existence, and even the sun!" Norris said. "The question is: Is the fleet of A-10s ready for retirement? I just celebrated my 75th birthday, but I'm nowhere near ready to head to the scrapheap. Some things improve with age, and the A-10 has done just that, too."
 
Norris also argued upgrades to the A-10 over the last two decades should extend its life.
 
Norris noted that some online have referred to the Warthog as "the Chuck Norris of airplanes." He is selling "Save the A-10" T-shirts online, the proceeds from which will benefit his children's martial arts charity KickStart Kids.
 
The front of each shirt says "Save the A-10," with an image of the seven-chambered barrel of the A-10's gun. The back shows a drawing of the Warthog's shark-toothed nose art and cannon and says "Chuck Norris' first born son was a Warthog. He cried tears of BRRRRRRRRRRRTTTTT."

Source: http://www.airforcetimes.com/story/military/2015/03/23/chuck-norris-weighs-in-on-a-10-debate/25217877/

 

Nice to see someone else gets it.

 

Also, as is mentioned there, Props to McCain. Love him or hate him, outside of running for Prez he's always been a down-to-earth no-nonsense guy. Doing what he can to stop the Air Force from screwing over the Army and Marines.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nashy    1,661

Man, most of the west looks like they're making absolutely horrid decisions when it comes to their Air Force.  Australia is throwing all their eggs in the F35 basket.  What a joke.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ryoken    1,004

It's not a bad aircraft.. or won't be once it, you know, works.

But it is NOT suited for all roles. And it's NOT ready.

 

In fact Close Air Support is probably the worst role it's suited for. It has no armor, no redundancy, flies at high speeds (Which makes accuracy with anything other than guided weapons very poor), and when it finally will work, cannons that have almost no ammo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DocM    16,544

The general needed a swift kick in the ass after this remark. Sounds like the old goat got it.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/air-force-general-reprimanded-over-10-treason-remark-153303632.html

Air Force general reprimanded over A-10 'treason' remark

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - An Air Force major general has been formally reprimanded and removed from his job for telling a group of officers that talking to Congress in a bid to block retirement of the A-10 Warthog amounted to "treason," the Air Force said on Friday.

An investigation of remarks by Major General James Post III, who was the vice commander of Air Combat Command, found that his words to some 300 airmen at Nellis Air Force Base on Jan. 10 may have had a "chilling effect" on some of them, convincing them not to speak with lawmakers.

Representative Mac Thornberry, chairman of the House of Representatives Armed Services Committee, said the Air Force action against Post was "important and correct."

"Members of Congress must be able to receive unfiltered facts and opinions from service members...," he said in a statement. "Attempts to prevent or restrict that communication cannot be allowed."

The incident added fuel to a controversy over efforts to retire the low-flying, tank-killer aircraft, which is highly regarded by ground troops for its ability to provide close air support.

>

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DocM    16,544

The grunts will be celebrating 

 

Aviation Week....

 

Quote

U.S. Air Force To Kick Off Competition For New A-10 Wings

 

Mar 27, 2018

President Donald Trumps signature on the $1.3 trillion omnibus spending bill last week gave the U.S. Air Force the green light to move forward with re-winging the A-10 Warthog so the venerable attack aircraft can fly into the 2030s.

The fiscal 2018 appropriations act includes $103 million for the Air Force to restart production of A-10 wingsa necessary step to keep the aging fleet flying for at least the next decade. Out of a fleet of about 280 A-10s that need new wings, Boeing has re-winged about 170, but the remaining 109 aircraft are still flying with their original wings from the 1970s.

But Boeing may not get to build new wings for the rest of the fleet. The Air Force plans to launch a new competition for the re-winging work, Air Force Secretary Heather Wilson told the House Armed Services Committee during a March 20 hearing. The service has already issued a draft request for proposals (RFP) and hopes to release a final solicitation by April 3, according to the draft RFP posted on the Federal Business Opportunities website.
>

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PGHammer    1,483
On 3/13/2015 at 11:58 PM, Jim K said:

 

Nope

 

Platform         Civilian Casualties per 100 Kinetic Sorties

AC-130                                0.7

 

A-10                                     1.4

 

F-15E                                   1.6

 

F-16                                     2.1

 

F-18                                     2.2

 

B-1                                       6.6

 

AV-8                                     8.4

 

 

 

 

http://www.pogo.org/our-work/articles/2015/af-hq-declassified-and-released-incomplete-data.html

 

http://www.militarytimes.com/story/military/pentagon/2015/02/10/a10-pogo-air-force-statistics-casualties-fratricide/23177501/

 

It is a shame that the AF is apparently running a "smear" campaign to remove the A-10.  I'm certain that ground troops who needed close air support greatly appreciated the capabilities of this platform...and there isn't a suitable replacement yet.

Jim K., by your numbers, the A-10 has a lower friendly-fire ratio than the far-faster F-15E.  The REAL reason the Warthog is hated by the USAF brass is because it is subsonic - in fact, it is the only subsonic-by-design combat aircraft in the USAF arsenal other than the MC series.  Despite how many lives the MC-130 Commando Solo aircraft STILL saves (despite it being a turbo-prop!) the knives have been out for it just as long as has been the case for the Warthog.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jim K    13,496
15 minutes ago, PGHammer said:

Jim K., by your numbers, the A-10 has a lower friendly-fire ratio than the far-faster F-15E.  The REAL reason the Warthog is hated by the USAF brass is because it is subsonic - in fact, it is the only subsonic-by-design combat aircraft in the USAF arsenal other than the MC series.  Despite how many lives the MC-130 Commando Solo aircraft STILL saves (despite it being a turbo-prop!) the knives have been out for it just as long as has been the case for the Warthog.

What?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mando    5,117

no please tell me its a  a joke, dont bin the flying bathtub :D 

 

 

A thing of pure beauty imo! 

 

Its subsonic for a reason, try flying under radar while popping tanks off, avoiding treetops from beyond the horizon and up close? Ask a land force what they would prefer covering their backs other than some A10s.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Zagadka    4,072

I recall being a kid during the Gulf War and falling in love with these things... even then they were trying to cancel the A-10, but the Gulf blew that plan (literally) out of the water. This demonstrates what is really needed in warfare, from a time when a stiff breeze wouldn't cause the computers to crash and render the plane useless.

 

First military porn will be remembered forever.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DocM    16,544

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PGHammer    1,483
On 5/1/2018 at 2:40 PM, Jim K said:

What?

Look at what the MC-130 does in terms of missions - and why they have NOT been able to replace it with the C-13x (such as the C-135).  It is NOT that the USAF (let alone the Reserve Components - which is where Commando Solo has wound up) hasn't wanted to replace it - it is that it can't replace that capability that is unique to that aircraft.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jim K    13,496

Ok????

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PGHammer    1,483
Just now, Jim K said:

Ok????

I am defending the MC-130 for the same reason the Hog is worth defending - as much as the USAF would wish otherwise, the needs of the missions say otherwise.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jim K    13,496
13 minutes ago, PGHammer said:

I am defending the MC-130 for the same reason the Hog is worth defending - as much as the USAF would wish otherwise, the needs of the missions say otherwise.

Ok...no idea why you're quoting me though? I said nothing about the 130 (assuming you meant to say the AC-130 ... not necessarily the MC-130. AC-130 is the gunship) ... and my post (that you quoted) from 3 years ago was a rebuttal for another member stating that the "A-10 has caused most friendly fire and civilian deaths than any other plane in the US arsenal"

 

/shrug

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PGHammer    1,483
On 5/10/2018 at 7:38 PM, Jim K said:

Ok...no idea why you're quoting me though? I said nothing about the 130 (assuming you meant to say the AC-130 ... not necessarily the MC-130. AC-130 is the gunship) ... and my post (that you quoted) from 3 years ago was a rebuttal for another member stating that the "A-10 has caused most friendly fire and civilian deaths than any other plane in the US arsenal"

 

/shrug

Thing is, both are based on that turboprop C-130 airframe; also, the MC-130 Commando Solo is - literally - Spooky's baby brother (and not just due to the airframe concurrence).  The C-135 airframe is unsuitable because it is too FAST for the missions that Spooky and Commando Solo do - the identical problem is run into by all the suggested replacements for the Warthog.  Low and slow (close-air suppport) or being able to turn a football field worth of hostiles - and what they rode in on - into bloody confetti is STILL necessary in terms of asymmetrical warfare - as unsexy and flat-out bloody and messy as it is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jim K    13,496

oooook?  I thought that was obvious?  Bringing up the C-135 ... that is an oddity (that is like bringing up the C-5, C-17)?  

 

Honestly PGHammer ... I have no idea what you're getting at.  /shrug 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.