Knight' Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 Despite Linux's shortfalls though Starman, you have to admit that the speed at which Linux evolves is rapid. In 5 years time I could well see Linux being a very VERY good operating system. Perhaps on a par with Mac OS X UI and Windows ease of use. Perhaps I'm being far too ambitious here, but given the increasing amount of companies investing heavily into Linux's development (a la IBM) I could well see it happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sav Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 You're right about it, some GUI is still young and looks what they have achieve, I'm quite impress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 I'd be more impressed if they got the PnP to work better, and THEN work on the UI. I just don't see a FOCUS in the Linux community. Yes, they have come a long way, but so do a lot of groups. Considering how many developers are working on Linux, it can go either way. On one hand you'd think things would go faster with the number of people working on it. On the other hand, as I said before, there's no real incentive except to **** on MS, and maybe after a while the dream fades and so you can't really get a steady core group of people to work on the different pieces of the OS like MS or Apple can. To be honest, I think that MS needs Apple and Linux or else they'd become a monopoly. I wouldn't be surprised if their business model is to INTENTIONALLY screw up for that very reason. Ever think about that? I'm convinced that someone somewhere in Redmond says "look, if we don't make a few mistakes, people won't look for alternatives with the same hardware". Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight' Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 To be honest, I think that MS needs Apple and Linux or else they'd become a monopoly. I wouldn't be surprised if their business model is to INTENTIONALLY screw up for that very reason. Ever think about that? I'm convinced that someone somewhere in Redmond says "look, if we don't make a few mistakes, people won't look for alternatives with the same hardware". I won't dwell on this for long, but Microsoft IS a monopoly. And because of this they know they can afford to make mistakes. And it's only because of Linux, sorry but Apple doesn't even register anymore here, Microsoft is actually starting to care what its customers think. For example, Microsoft recently took a survey asking Linux users, of course, why they are using Linux instead of Microsoft products. And about your first point, well, that's a higly generalised statement there. There is ample drive from Red Hat developers whom are pushing a more server based OS rather than an all inclusive desktop/server release. Look at the drive for the 2.6 Kernel, even Linus himself helped code it! The drive is there, and I have no doubt that Linux is not just some dream or fad that you make it out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 Maybe I misspoke. I'm talking about developer "turnover". You know, you get some guy who's hell-bent on beating MS into the ground so he starts working on Linux, but over time he might realize that either he's not getting paid, he's not getting as much back as he's putting in, maybe he bought a Mac :). That's the dream I was referring to. Macs register. If they didn't, MS wouldn't have a Mac developer group. Apart from the cost of hardware, I can't believe that Linux users wouldn't see OS X as OS Nirvana. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threetonesun Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 I just don't see a FOCUS in the Linux community. Yes, they have come a long way, but so do a lot of groups. Considering how many developers are working on Linux, it can go either way. On one hand you'd think things would go faster with the number of people working on it. On the other hand, as I said before, there's no real incentive except to **** on MS, and maybe after a while the dream fades and so you can't really get a steady core group of people to work on the different pieces of the OS like MS or Apple can. The focus is where ever the money is. Linux doesn't bring in enough cash to make it a contender. Look at Apple. There's an alternative OS to Windows, but it makes money. And it's doing decently well as a company. On the other hand, when you have Linux split up amongst all the distros, there's no real market to be had. Especially when your system comes from not dedicated programers, but contributions. So the Linux companies think they can make money through support, and the OS can take care of itself. But without the hardware + software companies making products for the OS, the support for the total package falls mostly in the hands of the distributor, who can't handle it. Granted, it's come a long way. But it's always been a step behind Microsoft and Apple. And while looking at Linux in a closed system it appears that it's make leaps and strides, looking at it in the marketplace, it's still far behind. A lot of you are saying Linux can take off in the next few years. Well, if in those next few years Linux can't get some of its very basic issues down, Apple and Microsoft will leave it even further behind than it is already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sav Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 and THEN work on the UI You mean at the programming level and I'm pretty sure you've not test the latest KDE 3.2Beta2, please, your statement is base on what you've seen on RH 8.0 (as you referd youself), that was back then, you should look again. But if you're speaking about the UI, well can you tell me why some of the VS for Windows is a rip off of Distro GUI base on Linux. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Douglas Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 USB/Firewire PnP works perfectly in linux /me switches USB mouses There is lots of insentive to program for linux, fame, glory, looks good on your resume; not everyone is obsessed about money as you. You don't think 95% is a monopoly? Trust me, MS doesn't sabotage their own projects, they are too rapped up in winning. The linux 2.6 kernel is way ahead of the latest NT kernel in security, speed and multi-tasking, big name like eWeek are already comparing 2.6 to Longhorn (a project already released verus a project years from being complete). As games like Doom 3 are leading the way in Linux gaming, the hardware companies will focus more of their staff on developing linux drivers ( ;) ) which in turn will make linux a viable gaming platform. Right now, linux isn't the perfect desktop platform for everyone (especially gamers and beginners) but as programs like GNOME, X Server (true transparency, DRI integration, alpha blending) and OpenOffice mature, linux will become a viable alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight' Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 Perhaps you may be right. But you?re forgetting that Linux isn't just a hobbyists OS anymore. Ten, fifteen years ago, then yeah you?re right. But now big businesses are starting to fund these projects because they see that in the future Linux could benefit them immensely, developers are getting paid, and companies like Red Hat are making enough money to stay profitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Douglas Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 Granted, it's come a long way. But it's always been a step behind Microsoft and Apple. And while looking at Linux in a closed system it appears that it's make leaps and strides, looking at it in the marketplace, it's still far behind. A lot of you are saying Linux can take off in the next few years. Well, if in those next few years Linux can't get some of its very basic issues down, Apple and Microsoft will leave it even further behind than it is already. Always was behind? It wasn't until maybe 2001 that linux was considered at all for the desktop. What you have to understand is that for years, linux was developed solely for the server Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight' Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 I look forward to reading more replies in the morning folks, good night :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sav Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 (edited) If the Linux Kernel along with all the distribution flavor out there Suck as hell like you've said earlier, why does Microsoft itself see it is there BIGGEST treat (and that statement come from Ballmer and Gates, and note here they didn't mention Apple but the Linux Kernel (with Distro of course)) Edit: Ho, I forgot to said that the statement was made back in january 10th, 2001, what about today with the release of Kernel 2.6? Edited December 24, 2003 by Savagearth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threetonesun Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 Always was behind? It wasn't until maybe 2001 that linux was considered at all for the desktop. What you have to understand is that for years, linux was developed solely for the server True, although I think at the heart of the matter Linux is really being developed to cover all the bases. Hence you get distros which are incedibly small, live CDs, server only distros, and ones that focus mainly on the desktop. But even when Linux was mainly a server OS, it was behind Windows, sheerly because at that point there was no economic basis for the OS. When Red Hat finally went public, Linux start to look viable to corporations, which is where the big money is. It's becoming more so now, but remember, to truly inflitrate the corporate world, you have to have not only the backbone covered, but also all the desktops, and that requires a lot of support which, IMO, a divided Linux world cannot yet provide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MxxCon Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 (edited) On the other hand, as I said before, there's no real incentive except to **** on MS, and maybe after a while the dream fades and so you can't really get a steady core group of people to work on the different pieces of the OS like MS or Apple can...... Maybe I misspoke. I'm talking about developer "turnover". You know, you get some guy who's hell-bent on beating MS into the ground so he starts working on Linux, but over time he might realize that either he's not getting paid, he's not getting as much back as he's putting in, maybe he bought a Mac :). yet again you prove to the world that you are god dammed greedy f-uck who doesn't know **** about linux. i can list you people who became BILLIONAIRES(i'm sure you never heard of that word) and millionaires from working with linux. you don't know **** if you think that linux is a one small one page document that somebody "hell-bent on beating MS into the ground so he starts working on Linux". nobody starts "writing linux" you dumb ****. if you can code, you can make money on any os, windows, mac, linux, cpm. you are pretty retarded if you think that just becuase somebody code for windows or apple they automaticly getting paid :no: once again YOU DON'T KNOW **** ABOUT LINUX SO STAY THE **** OUT LINUX RELATED THREADS threetonesun, how about you get your facts strait and learn that more than 50% of servers are linux? and it was so for the last 5+ years. go look at netcraft and other sites that keep track of stats Edited December 24, 2003 by MxxCon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 You know, you have some serious anger management issues. nobody starts "writing linux" you dumb ****. Oh, so the code writes itself? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MxxCon Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 there is no such thing as "linux" singular entity. so only somebody as clueless as you would say "writing linux" or "making linux" or whatever else you said. if by that "linux" statment above you mean linux kernel, then once again you have no ****ing idea about how it's being developed, you have no idea who's working on it, how many people are working on it or how it's managed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 Note that I said "working on Linux", not "writing Linux" as YOU screwed it up to be. I guess you also think that nobody calls drivers "modules". :rolleyes: Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MxxCon Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 no i don't, and don't you dare to put words into my mouth if i never said them. why don't you just go back to writing your 2 UNIX books and making those crappy icons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 Wow. It's obvious you're backpedaling by using a technicality as a basis for your argument. Be a man, admit you're wrong, and move on. This is a thread about gaming. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MxxCon Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 wrong about what? you are the clueless moron that spread blatant lies about linux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threetonesun Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 threetonesun, how about you get your facts strait and learn that more than 50% of servers are linux? and it was so for the last 5+ years. go look at netcraft and other sites that keep track of stats When did I ever say Linux wasn't popular on servers? And ... gee, 5 years ago. When did Redhat first go public? 1999? So, doesn't that agree with everything I said :rolleyes: Now go find out how many a) major companies run Linux, and b) how many are using them for desktop applications. That's a much more relevant number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 There's no denying that Linux kicks ass in the server market, but this is a GAMING thread. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadeWolf324 Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 JadeWolf, It's nice to dream about that, but it'll never happen for the simple reason that it's not what Linux is about. If you want to look at alternatives on the PC that were centralized, look at BeOS and OS/2. Both failed because Windows took over. You see, here's the problem. A lot of people don't truly understand how deep this Microsoft thing goes. When I was at Merck as an intern back in the mid-80's, we had a lot of internal departments that had their own way of doing things. This department would use Word, another would use Word Perfect. One guy refused to give up Wordstar. We even had old DEC and VMS systems (I can't think of the name of the system off the top of my head, but it was a document-based system where you created a document and you got a DocID number). So what do you do? Person A's report won't work on person B's computer and Vice President C can't read either one. So...you centralize it on one platform - Windows. Over the 8 years I was there I saw a lot of Windows centralization. Now, that was just internal on word processing. Imagine what it's like to deal with this between companies and spreadsheets, presentations, etc.! That's why I think that although MS does things badly, it's a necessary evil, and I have to respect them for making things easier. Mike People like to bash MS, but imagine what it would be like if to this day we're still using 7 different word processors with proprietary file formats! Then comes Linux. Um, OK. Star Office? No...doesn't quite work right. It's GOOD, but it's not 100%. Maybe this new MS Office XML format I've been hearing about will change things, but until then, when you're running a business, you have to make sure things run smoothly. well i see what u say about person a and b and c. and this leads me to my favorite theory on microsoft in general...microsoft was at the right place at the right time. if linus torvalds was there and stole xerox's OS idea...we would ALL be using Linux, and then this thread topic would be "would u use Windows if it could play more games..." ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 You might be right :). But as they say, the winners write the history books. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Jones Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 Why the mods haven't shut your mouth yet is beyond my comprehension.. Does anybody actually remember the topic ? And Starman, you can't go on 10 pages saying that linux is not worth **** for it code stability and drivers whatever, and when someone points out that it can kick your ass as a server say : oh yeah, but this is a gaming topic uh ! You are old, oh yes. We bow down to your oldness. But you might be the less mature jerk i've ever seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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