Complete Switch to *NIX and Linux: May 17, 2015


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simplezz

Diablo II keeps getting better?  I guess. I stopped playing it 10 years ago. On a side note, my Windows 3.1 installation keeps getting better all the time.  :rolleyes:

Intentionally misinterpreting what I said doesn't change the facts. The performance keeps getting better is what I meant just in case anyone reading fell for your misdirection.

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Melfster

It's very strange People use Linux to play games...I like Linux but not for games. 

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guitmz

That gets lost on a lot of people from the Windows world. They seem to think it has the performance penalties of a bog standard emulator. Which it doesn't. It implements the Win32 API so that Windows PE's run on Linux. In the case of Gaming, it converts calls from DirectX/3D to OpenGL, similar to how a game engine would support multiple library code paths. There's no performance loss per se. And in many cases, due to Linux's superior OS design & efficiency (vs Windows), the games in question actually run faster. Valve found this to be true while porting its engine to GNU/Linux.

 

In-######ing-deed.

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simplezz

How would I even get my CD's (Diablo, Diablo 2 (LOD), WarCraft 2 TOD & BTDP/BNE, Warcraft 3), (Heroes of) MIght & Magic to be read by linux (specifically WINE/POL)?

Three ways.

1. Download the installer directly from Battle.net. All you need is your cdkey. You don't actually even need a CD now. That works for Diablo II etc.

2. When you insert a cd it should be automatically mounted by your system. If not, do it manually. Then just navigate to the cd in your file manager and open the setup.exe. It should run through wine automatically.

3. Personally, I just dd'ed my CD's into ISO's, and mounted/installed them. It's faster and I could preserve them without having to redownload the images from Battle.net.

$ dd if=/dev/sr0 of=cd1.iso
$ mkdir /mnt/iso && mount cd1.iso /mnt/iso
$ wine /mnt/iso/Setup.exe
...

Can't get any easier than that. In Diablo 2's case, once you copy over a couple mpq's from the images to the local installation (as per Blizzard's instructions for local cd installations), and installed the latest update, you have a no-cd required game.

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guitmz

How would I even get my CD's (Diablo, Diablo 2 (LOD), WarCraft 2 TOD & BTDP/BNE, Warcraft 3), (Heroes of) MIght & Magic to be read by linux (specifically WINE/POL)?

 

You can be lazy and use PlayOnLinux which pretty much does everything to you. Despite that, when you install WINE, it will be able to run the EXE files inside your game discs just like windows does

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simplezz

It's very strange People use Linux to play games...I like Linux but not for games. 

Not at all. It's quite normal in fact for GNU/Linux users. Why do you think Valve ported their Steam gaming platform to it?

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guitmz

Yeah.. I'd be using my laptop to play games on linux if the freaking nvidia driver worked correctly with archlinux (works with other distros but Im an arch user).. even the freaking nouveau is not working.. its not linux fault, its my bios that is crazy and wont let me shutdown my gpus

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HeartsOfWar

Call what you want. I find Linux to be far superior for gaming, and WINE / Crossover etc is very very easy to use and everything I have thrown at it works, and works better than Windows. Linux works so well for gaming, I don't even bother with Windows (I wouldn't anyway). The main task of my (high end) desktop IS gaming. And I only use Linux to do it.

 

I've had a love-hate relationship for running linux since the late 90s, but I didn't start heavily running linux until 2002-ish? Even then, I wasn't exclusive until 2010. Oh, I still have a windows box as a backup solution, but it only gets booted maybe once every 6 months to receive updates and then it goes back into a black hole.

 

I won't say you're wrong about Linux working well for gaming, but I will argue that anyone claiming Linux beats Windows gaming (performance, graphics, issues, etc) hasn't run both games side-by-side and done an objective benchmark.

 

For example: Claiming that a windows game under WINE works better on Linux than Windows isn't necessarily an apples to apples comparison. As someone has already mentioned, WINE implements the win32 API and translates Direct3D calls to OpenGL. While this may or may not result in a performance boost, it could also result in a lack of graphics quality / fidelity that isn't readily noticeable without a side-by-side comparison. There are features that Direct3D has that OpenGL does not support. So, yes, while the game may run well / better... it doesn't mean there is a level playing field.

 

My personal experience is that gaming on Linux is much more frustrating due to driver support than anything else. It's certainly possible to game well on Linux, but nVidia and AMD do not make it easy...

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smooth_criminal1990

Intel Core i7 3770 @ stock (non-k)

GTX 970

16GB RAM

42 TB drive space, including SSD

Dell U2713H (2560 x 1440, 120% colour gamut)

Running both openSUSE point release (currently 13.2) and openSUSE Tumbleweed (rolling)

Nice.

 

Last time I tried was with a 2.4GHz Q6600 CPU and an 8800GT for graphics, probably why I was getting about 10fps in Left4Dead!

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Beyond Godlike

I've had a love-hate relationship for running linux since the late 90s, but I didn't start heavily running linux until 2002-ish? Even then, I wasn't exclusive until 2010. Oh, I still have a windows box as a backup solution, but it only gets booted maybe once every 6 months to receive updates and then it goes back into a black hole.

 

I won't say you're wrong about Linux working well for gaming, but I will argue that anyone claiming Linux beats Windows gaming (performance, graphics, issues, etc) hasn't run both games side-by-side and done an objective benchmark.

 

For example: Claiming that a windows game under WINE works better on Linux than Windows isn't necessarily an apples to apples comparison. As someone has already mentioned, WINE implements the win32 API and translates Direct3D calls to OpenGL. While this may or may not result in a performance boost, it could also result in a lack of graphics quality / fidelity that isn't readily noticeable without a side-by-side comparison. There are features that Direct3D has that OpenGL does not support. So, yes, while the game may run well / better... it doesn't mean there is a level playing field.

 

My personal experience is that gaming on Linux is much more frustrating due to driver support than anything else. It's certainly possible to game well on Linux, but nVidia and AMD do not make it easy...

 

 

^This.  People who are insisting gaming on linux is superior are just trying to convince themselves that a lie is true.  The whole experience is inferior, and sure, maybe OLD games run fine, but I didn't buy a gaming rig to run diablo 2. 

 

Entertaining thread though. 

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Crimson Rain

Call what you want. I find Linux to be far superior for gaming, and WINE / Crossover etc is very very easy to use and everything I have thrown at it works, and works better than Windows. Linux works so well for gaming, I don't even bother with Windows (I wouldn't anyway). The main task of my (high end) desktop IS gaming. And I only use Linux to do it.

Yeah, Linux is so good Steam's Linux market share is going down every month. Now it is at 0.88%. Great OS for gaming! Year of the Linux is here. Time to throw party.

 

Source.

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vmlinuz

Yeah, Linux is so good Steam's Linux market share is going down every month. Now it is at 0.88%. Great OS for gaming! Year of the Linux is here.

I don't care about anyone else

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Melfster

Not at all. It's quite normal in fact for GNU/Linux users. Why do you think Valve ported their Steam gaming platform to it?

 

Because they want to diversify away from Microsoft.  But I don't think Steam gaming is going to take off anytime soon.   I do think there will be a larger uptake of PC gaming in general in the next couple years.  

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HeartsOfWar

^This.  People who are insisting gaming on linux is superior are just trying to convince themselves that a lie is true.  The whole experience is inferior, and sure, maybe OLD games run fine, but I didn't buy a gaming rig to run diablo 2. 

 

Entertaining thread though. 

 

I think claiming the whole experience on Linux as inferior is pretty baseless. It's certainly not as intuitive as Windows / Mac, but I have no doubt that Linux can make a very capable gaming rig that excels in some areas that Windows just couldn't compete and vice versa.

 

Rubbish. I've done the benchmarks myself. I also know how to get the most out of Linux by tweaking it and tuning it to the nth degree (custom high performance patches etc). I also play new games on Linux, not just old. Anyway, there are so many idiot Winbois in this thread, it boggles my mind, so I won't be coming back to this thread, not even to read it. I bid good day you, and may your arrogance and ignorance be some day cured.

 

I won't say I don't believe you, because I work every day hacking on the linux kernel myself; however, I will say that you have made some very large claims that casts a very large shadow of doubt.

 

- maintaining custom kernel patches that increase performance; where are these patches? If you love and embrace Linux as you claim, why haven't they been pushed up stream? If they have, please share with us so credit can be given its due.

 

- Having 6k games that run on Linux. This isn't outside the realm of possibilities, especially someone that has been on the platform since the 90s, like you and I; however, there is a huge difference between having / running 6k triple A titles that are graphics intense and 6k indie / non-major published games like s/angband, etc. It would be quite easy for you to dump a list of titles...

 

- Diablo 2 may very well run better on Linux w/ WINE than it does current Windows but it's likely due to the fact that MS has made a lot of changes to their recent releases that WINE simply can't support; keep in mind that Diablo 2 came out 15 years ago and that is before Windows XP. Secondly, WINE is functionally more closer to XP than Windows Vista API compliant but even then this is 2, almost 3 major releases behind. It didn't get basic 64-bit support until 2009, it got basic WoW64 support in 2010, and It just finished DirectX 10 support less than a year ago. Meanwhile, MS is already about to push out DirectX 12 with their 3rd major OS since Vista. The reason WINE runs D2 better is because WINE by its nature is stuck in the past. This does not herald Linux as a better gaming rig; it's simply a sign of the times that older games need more care and can't necessarily be run on the latest releases.

 

- Diablo 2 is not mainstream anymore and hasn't been for 13 years. It's ridiculous to claim one OS is better at gaming than any other and then use a 13 year old game as a benchmark... I don't care if you've done the benchmarks yourself and been as objective as anyone can be.

 

- As I said before, WINE translates Direct3D calls to OpenGL, so even if you were to take a triple A game and compare it on Windows v. WINE, it's not necessarily an apples to apples comparison.

 

I have no doubts that Linux could become just as good at gaming as Windows, maybe even taking the crown some day, but the unfortunate reality is that the gaming scene is not the major focus of the Linux community despite there being a massive out-cry of linux gaming support.

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guitmz

 

- Diablo 2 is not mainstream anymore and hasn't been for 13 years. It's ridiculous to claim one OS is better at gaming than any other and then use a 13 year old game as a benchmark... I don't care if you've done the benchmarks yourself and been as objective as anyone can be.

 

 

 

Diablo 3 runs WAY better on my linux than windows.. So does WoW. Higher FPS with the same GPU for example

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Haggis

Thread cleaned.

 

Lets not resort to petty name calling guys.

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Beyond Godlike

Diablo 3 runs WAY better on my linux than windows.. So does WoW. Higher FPS with the same GPU for example

 

 

I question the visual quality though.  It's weird to me that a game not meant to run natively runs faster, but everything I've read suggests openGL is less capable than DX. 

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guitmz

I question the visual quality though.  It's weird to me that a game not meant to run natively runs faster, but everything I've read suggests openGL is less capable than DX. 

 

All settings on max, game looks the same on windows and linux but the fps is higher on linux among other performance indicators like cutscene lags for instance in D3

 

it is running natively, thats the thing you guys are not understanding about WINE, it is executing the application the exact same way windows does, the same DLLs, etc etc

 

i cant say for the pros and cons about DX and OpenGL, no idea.. both seem good

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Noir Angel

Trying to game on Linux is still a very painful experience if you own AMD hardware, I long for the day that they make good Linux drivers so that I can actually seriously consider switching from Windows.

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Mindovermaster

:rolleyes:  Truth... I recently moved to a 750 Ti, from a AMD 7850, can't be happier. :)

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f0rk_b0mb

What distro and tweaks?

 

Distro: Ubuntu Gnome Edition 15.04 x64

Theme: Numix

Icons: Numix Circles

Gnome 3 Extentions: 

Open Weather: https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/750/openweather/

Activities Configurator (transparent top bar): https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/358/activities-configurator/

Wallpaper: http://wallpaperswide.com/hot_air_balloons_in_the_air-wallpapers.html

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f0rk_b0mb

Yeah, Linux is so good Steam's Linux market share is going down every month. Now it is at 0.88%. Great OS for gaming! Year of the Linux is here. Time to throw party.

 

Source.

 

So in other words if we round off to 0.90%, that means 9/10 Linux users have steam installed, given Linux has a 1% marketshare. 

 

Right? Is my math correct on this? 

 

 

Edit: Holy crap!!! 6,200 thread views.  :o

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HeartsOfWar

All settings on max, game looks the same on windows and linux but the fps is higher on linux among other performance indicators like cutscene lags for instance in D3

 

it is running natively, thats the thing you guys are not understanding about WINE, it is executing the application the exact same way windows does, the same DLLs, etc etc

 

i cant say for the pros and cons about DX and OpenGL, no idea.. both seem good

 

You are absolutely and unequivocally wrong when you say Diablo 3 or WoW is running natively via WINE; I will not go into the details, but I encourage you to peruse their FAQ and try to better understand the technology that you're using.

 

Second, it is a fact that OpenGL and DirectX differ on features, and any program run under translation from Direct3D to OpenGL will NOT look the same if a feature of Direct3D is not 1:1 available on OpenGL. Even if you are runing the two side-by-side, you may not be able to spot a difference, but it could be there.

 

Diablo 3 and WoW only make use of DirectX 9.0c... WINE fully supports this version and likely there aren't any major differences in translation; however, just because a couple games you have run faster does not mean Linux as a whole is a more competent or performance gaming system. Winning a single battle (ie. having one or two games running faster on Linux than windows) doesn't win the war.

 

I do all my gaming on Linux, but I can honestly say that Linux has a LONG way to go to dethrone Windows

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TDT

This is a pointless discussion guys. Linux, no matter how much it evolved in the last years, has a LOT to go till it will be a viable gaming platform like Windows is. Wine is a good project, but no way near anything native. I use Linux and I love it, but I don't blab about how Linux is better than Windows when gaming is concerned, because that's not the case and probably will never be. Like the person above said, if one or two games run on your Linux system, that doesn't mean Windows is bad and Linux wins. No way.

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