Complete Switch to *NIX and Linux: May 17, 2015


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Lazy8s

Can tell you it works on Mint 17.1. I just tried it a few months ago.

He mentioned laptop, so I'm guessing optimus? Opensuse on my desktop works perfectly, but, unless NV has made some drastic fixes recently I'll avoid any laptop with optimus tech involved. I seem to remember reading about major headaches with it not long ago.

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Mindovermaster

Did it on my desktop, with a 750Ti...

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Lazy8s

GTX 760 here, various other desktop cards (all NV) in the past as well. I'm on the hunt for a laptop myself right now, but I'm going to avoid anything with switchable graphics for now. At least until it's fully useable ....here's a read on it that I stumbled across..

 

http://www.thelinuxrain.com/articles/the-state-of-nvidia-optimus-on-linux

 

On Linux, it's a tad more complicated...

Simply put, there is no actual official NVIDIA support for Optimus technology for Linux. Or at least, not completely. Until recently, there was none at all. As of 2013, NVIDIA did start to provide initial support for Optimus, but it is extremely barebones and arguably doesn't actually properly implement the Optimus features as it's meant to be.

 

 

edit:I should have said "avoiding optimus" instead of avoiding switchaeble graphics. I don't know the state of AMDs offerings....

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Mindovermaster

Ever look at System76.com? They sell laptop, desktops, servers, that work with Ubuntu. You choose your verion, 14.10 or 15.04

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Lazy8s

Ever look at System76.com? They sell laptop, desktops, servers, that work with Ubuntu. You choose your verion, 14.10 or 15.04

I haven't, but I sure will. Thanks :)

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simplezz

NVIDIA Optimus is known to be problematic. Remember Torvalds giving Nvidia the finger? I believe that was concerning Optimus. To this day, it's still a pain.

As far as getting it to work on Arch, here's what the Wiki says:

1) disabling one of the devices in BIOS, which may result in improved battery life if the NVIDIA device is disabled, but may not be available with all BIOSes and does not allow GPU switching

2) using the official Optimus support included with the proprietary NVIDIA driver, which offers the best NVIDIA performance but does not allow GPU switching and can be more buggy than the open-source driver

3) using the PRIME functionality of the open-source nouveau driver, which allows GPU switching but offers poor performance compared to the proprietary NVIDIA driver and does not currently implement any powersaving

4) using the third-party Bumblebee program to implement Optimus-like functionality, which offers GPU switching and powersaving but requires extra configuration

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/NVIDIA_Optimus

As an interesting aside, Torvald's explanation of why Linux hasn't dominated the desktop yet. Hint it's all about preinstalls.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFKxlYNfT_o

Until OEM's get serious about preinstalling Linux, its marketshare on the desktop will always be limited. I'm optimistic that OEM's will adopt Linux more in the future as Windows loses its ecosystem advantage.

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guitmz

yeah but as per my experience following the wiki and others recommendation, its still not working or partially working (works sometimes only) at least for my system

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TDT

As an interesting aside, Torvald's explanation of why Linux hasn't dominated the desktop yet. Hint it's all about preinstalls.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFKxlYNfT_o

Until OEM's get serious about preinstalling Linux, its marketshare on the desktop will always be limited. I'm optimistic that OEM's will adopt Linux more in the future as Windows loses its ecosystem advantage.

That's crap. One of the first reasons that comes to mind is that Linux, until very recently, was ugly as hell, even the Windows classic theme was better than every Linux GUI out there (and no, KDE is not better than Windows's UI and never was). How about the simple matter of the fonts? It took so many years to "discover" Droid?! It looks great (look at elementary OS), yet not even Mint uses that font as default, you have to read about it in "20 things to do after installing Mint" videos or tutorials.

 

And why some OEM should opt for Linux instead of what's best for his business? Linux comes with freedom, as its users like to say, but then again it comes with a lot of poor apps that are no way near good alternatives for  Win apps (try all you want, you can't compare GIMP with Photoshop, or Audacity with Sony's Sound Forge, etc.). It's not 100% noob friendly (tell a complete noob how to fix some Linux issue by opening the terminal and writing commands and editing files, his eyes will pop out), while in Windows, most of the time, it comes down to rebooting, installing/uninstalling drivers or some runtime files.

 

I'm not saying that Linux shouldn't be a stronger competitor on the desktop market. But as it is right now, it's good that it's not. Open source can be good, but all this fragmentation is bad. Some will say it's good that you have so many choices, but actually is not, I would rather have the devs from the most beautiful and solid distros out there join and use their brains to create THE Linux distro.

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Lazy8s

Windows classic theme made my eyes bleed :D

 

I think plain and simple resistance to change has a lot to do with it too. Look at the sheer resistance to adopting win8.1 that's out there in spite of improvements under the hood. A new start menu and it's hated and shunned.

 

I've put Ubuntu in front of some folks which is so darn simple to use, and the chief complaints were 1. It's fugly (as you said) and 2. It's different. Do not want.

 

Mac OS looks so sleek, Win 8.1/10 can look very attractive on the right devices, but Linux out of the box, not so much, plus there are the notions that Linux breaks so easily from years past....It has an uphill climb for sure.

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adrynalyne

That's crap. One of the first reasons that comes to mind is that Linux, until very recently, was ugly as hell, even the Windows classic theme was better than every Linux GUI out there (and no, KDE is not better than Windows's UI and never was). How about the simple matter of the fonts? It took so many years to "discover" Droid?! It looks great (look at elementary OS), yet not even Mint uses that font as default, you have to read about it in "20 things to do after installing Mint" videos or tutorials.

 

And why some OEM should opt for Linux instead of what's best for his business? Linux comes with freedom, as its users like to say, but then again it comes with a lot of poor apps that are no way near good alternatives for  Win apps (try all you want, you can't compare GIMP with Photoshop, or Audacity with Sony's Sound Forge, etc.). It's not 100% noob friendly (tell a complete noob how to fix some Linux issue by opening the terminal and writing commands and editing files, his eyes will pop out), while in Windows, most of the time, it comes down to rebooting, installing/uninstalling drivers or some runtime files.

 

I'm not saying that Linux shouldn't be a stronger competitor on the desktop market. But as it is right now, it's good that it's not. Open source can be good, but all this fragmentation is bad. Some will say it's good that you have so many choices, but actually is not, I would rather have the devs from the most beautiful and solid distros out there join and use their brains to create THE Linux distro.

Yup, if it was about preinstalls, Dell's Linux laptops would be flying off the shelves more than Windows.

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TDT

Windows classic theme made my eyes bleed :D

 

I think plain and simple resistance to change has a lot to do with it too. Look at the sheer resistance to adopting win8.1 that's out there in spite of improvements under the hood. A new start menu and it's hated and shunned.

 

I've put Ubuntu in front of some folks which is so darn simple to use, and the chief complaints were 1. It's fugly (as you said) and 2. It's different. Do not want.

 

Mac OS looks so sleek, Win 8.1/10 can look very attractive on the right devices, but Linux out of the box, not so much, plus there are the notions that Linux breaks so easily from years past....It has an uphill climb for sure.

Yeap. Linux breaks so easily just because it's not so easy to fix something. Sometimes trying to fix an issue leads to other issues and so on until the system becomes a complete mess. Yeah, you're protected against viruses, but who needs viruses to get their system screwed when you can do it too? :rolleyes:

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Lazy8s

Yeap. Linux breaks so easily just because it's not so easy to fix something. Sometimes trying to fix an issue leads to other issues and so on until the system becomes a complete mess. Yeah, you're protected against viruses, but who needs viruses to get their system screwed when you can do it too? :rolleyes:

I heard both camps are working hard against that pebcak malware. It affects us all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:yes::D

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HeartsOfWar

However a lot of more modern game engines have support for both OpenGL and D3D rendering. Unreal 4 and Source 2 will have it, Unity has it, and I don't know about CryEngine but I would be surprised if that doesn't have it as well. Even a lot of older games, particularly those based on older GoldSrc and Unreal versions actually render better in OpenGL mode. IDTech is exclusively OpenGL as well. Cross platform API support is actually very good these days. Linux gaming probably isn't that far behind any more.

 

I agree that as time moves on, we are seeing game engines support OpenGL and Linux more. This is great news that will hopefully give Linux a fighting chance; however, game engine support is unfotunately just one piece of the pie. The biggest hurdle has always been proprietary driver / OSS driver support and performance. Obviously the best performance is going to be using Nvidia's blob, but you aren't going to get any support. Nouveau will get you the best support, but you won't get the best performance. Right now, these two are so polar opposites, it makes the experience damn near unbearable for a large majority of people that are trying to learn linux.

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HeartsOfWar

That's crap. One of the first reasons that comes to mind is that Linux, until very recently, was ugly as hell, even the Windows classic theme was better than every Linux GUI out there (and no, KDE is not better than Windows's UI and never was). How about the simple matter of the fonts? It took so many years to "discover" Droid?! It looks great (look at elementary OS), yet not even Mint uses that font as default, you have to read about it in "20 things to do after installing Mint" videos or tutorials.

 

And why some OEM should opt for Linux instead of what's best for his business? Linux comes with freedom, as its users like to say, but then again it comes with a lot of poor apps that are no way near good alternatives for  Win apps (try all you want, you can't compare GIMP with Photoshop, or Audacity with Sony's Sound Forge, etc.). It's not 100% noob friendly (tell a complete noob how to fix some Linux issue by opening the terminal and writing commands and editing files, his eyes will pop out), while in Windows, most of the time, it comes down to rebooting, installing/uninstalling drivers or some runtime files.

 

I'm not saying that Linux shouldn't be a stronger competitor on the desktop market. But as it is right now, it's good that it's not. Open source can be good, but all this fragmentation is bad. Some will say it's good that you have so many choices, but actually is not, I would rather have the devs from the most beautiful and solid distros out there join and use their brains to create THE Linux distro.

 

You do realize that Android is essentially just another distribution of Linux (fair amount of customization / changes) and it's dominating the cell-phone market. Babies are growing up on Android phones / Apple iOS more than they are Windows. My point is to show that Linux is capable of providing a complete friendly experience... it just depends on the devs and theit perceived target audience.

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Gotenks98

Its definitely not pre-installs. They will have to dumb it down significantly more before its what I would call user friendly. They need to create a distro that moves 99% of the command prompts power back to the UI instead of making everything so command driven. As far as looks go I think Zorin OS and Elementary OS probably look the best. I do agree on the if it breaks thing. Its a nightmare to fix.

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TDT

You do realize that Android is essentially just another distribution of Linux (fair amount of customization / changes) and it's dominating the cell-phone market. Babies are growing up on Android phones / Apple iOS more than they are Windows. My point is to show that Linux is capable of providing a complete friendly experience... it just depends on the devs and theit perceived target audience.

Really? Then tell me, how many cell phones need their users to type terminal commands or edit files or whatever, in order to fix an issue? You can't compare the desktop with phones. It's like apples and oranges. It doesn't matter if the mobile OS is based on Linux, it's not the same thing as using Linux on your desktop.

 

"Linux is capable of providing a complete friendly experience" - well, by this logic Windows is also capable of providing a complete friendly mobile experience too, right?

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Mindovermaster

x64 or ARM, it is based off of Linux's kernel. They probably disabled the terminal, except when you set it to factory settings, upgrade, or brick it.

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Max Norris

You can't compare the desktop with phones. It's like apples and oranges. It doesn't matter if the mobile OS is based on Linux, it's not the same thing as using Linux on your desktop.

Not that I'm getting on either side of this as I use both, but it's a common misconception. Linux the kernel is only a part of GNU/Linux the OS.  GNU/Linux and Android are two different operating systems, you can't say one is good just based on the success of the other. It's not just another GNU/Linux distribution. Even GNU will flat out tell you this. 

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TDT

Not that I'm getting on either side of this as I use both, but it's a common misconception. Linux the kernel is only a part of GNU/Linux the OS.  GNU/Linux and Android are two different operating systems, you can't say one is good just based on the success of the other. It's not just another GNU/Linux distribution. Even GNU will flat out tell you this. 

That it what I said. And I do know that it's just the kernel, but it's easier to write Linux instead of GNU/Linux :p

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Mindovermaster

That it what I said. And I do know that it's just the kernel, but it's easier to write Linux instead of GNU/Linux :p

 

Aren't they the same?

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HeartsOfWar

Really? Then tell me, how many cell phones need their users to type terminal commands or edit files or whatever, in order to fix an issue? You can't compare the desktop with phones. It's like apples and oranges. It doesn't matter if the mobile OS is based on Linux, it's not the same thing as using Linux on your desktop.

 

"Linux is capable of providing a complete friendly experience" - well, by this logic Windows is also capable of providing a complete friendly mobile experience too, right?

 

I wasn't comparing a phone to a desktop... I was comparing Android experience to Windows experience. 99% of the smart phone market is Linux / unix driven (Android and iOS) compared to windows. The shift has happened, and most everyone around the world is happy to run Linux or Unix.

 

You are trying to compare a phone to desktops.

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TDT

I wasn't comparing a phone to a desktop... I was comparing Android experience to Windows experience. 99% of the smart phone market is Linux / unix driven (Android and iOS) compared to windows. The shift has happened, and most everyone around the world is happy to run Linux or Unix.

 

You are trying to compare a phone to desktops.

It seems to me that you are comparing Android with the Linux desktop. Last time I checked, Linux had 1.57% of the desktop market. That's really not "most everyone around the world", is it?

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HeartsOfWar

It seems to me that you are comparing Android with the Linux desktop. Last time I checked, Linux had 1.57% of the desktop market. That's really not "most everyone around the world", is it?

 

Nope. I wasn't comparing Android to the Linux desktop. What I was doing was stating that if developers recognize their audience correctly, even Linux can succeed in the wild against Windows. It's not impossible for Linux just because it's an unforgiving OS according to most. It just takes an exceptional design vision / goal.

 

In case you haven't figured it out: 99% of the market that is Linux / Unix is the cell-phone market... not the desktop as you think. You need to read / comprehend better.

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Haggis

Yeap. Linux breaks so easily just because it's not so easy to fix something. Sometimes trying to fix an issue leads to other issues and so on until the system becomes a complete mess. Yeah, you're protected against viruses, but who needs viruses to get their system screwed when you can do it too? :rolleyes:

 

 

Not everyone has this issue lol

 

I have had linux installed for years and the only time i have reinstalled is when i wanted a clean out, same as i did with windows

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Lazy8s

Nope. I wasn't comparing Android to the Linux desktop. What I was doing was stating that if developers recognize their audience correctly, even Linux can succeed in the wild against Windows. It's not impossible for Linux just because it's an unforgiving OS according to most. It just takes an exceptional design vision / goal.

 

In case you haven't figured it out: 99% of the market that is Linux / Unix is the cell-phone market... not the desktop as you think. You need to read / comprehend better.

In all fairness Windows can be awfully intimidating and unforgiving to the uninitiated.  I'm my entire families tech support and have seen jaw dropping things as a result of a BSOD :laugh:

 

I'm simply pointing that out due to the level of polish I've seen getting back to Linux in recent weeks. Anyone using windows could just as easily use a mildy tweaked install of Ubuntu/Mint or even Opensuse. Enough so to get me to order another laptop that will be strictly Linux for home use.

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