+E.Worm Jimmy Subscriber¹ Posted June 28, 2015 Subscriber¹ Share Posted June 28, 2015 opps... so private american company, everyone was hoping is the new space messiah, is as prone to failure as others. who would have thought....... anyways, snide remarks aside, i just hope the space station will get the supplies soon! it's not brain surgery..... it's rocket science.... so many failures.... how we ever gonna escape this planet... natocccp 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted June 28, 2015 Author Share Posted June 28, 2015 Interesting: Shotwell (paraphrased); S1 was successful until 139 sec. Collecting data, don't expect an issue with S1. It was a ressure issue in the second stage. Dragon telemetry continued (!!) Will fix it and return to flight. No safety issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloatingFatMan Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 opps... so private american company is as prone to failure as others. who would have thought....... anyways, snide remarks aside, i just hope the space station will get the supplies soon! so many failures.... how we ever gonna escape this planet... it's not brain surgery..... it's rocket science. 1 launch incident in 19 launches, that's a far better safety record than Ruscosmos (and better than NASA, too). The 2 landing incidents they had are not that important in the grand scheme of things. They don't affect launch and are more SpaceX testing brand new technology to enable stage reuse. Failures in that is to be expected. Oh, and contrary to popular opinion, rocket science is actually really really complicated! Jim K 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ks8877 Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Dragon probably could parachute to safe water landing... if it was programmed for case like this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted June 28, 2015 Author Share Posted June 28, 2015 Probably, but it wasn't. Progress flies in a week, HTV is prepping for later this summer and an Enhanced Cygnus (longer) flies in December on Atlas V. Cargo will be reshuffled. With all the cameras and sensors on F9 they'll find the problem and SpaceX likely returns to flight sooner than later. natocccp 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draggendrop Veteran Posted June 28, 2015 Veteran Share Posted June 28, 2015 opps... so private american company, everyone was hoping is the new space messiah, is as prone to failure as others. who would have thought....... anyways, snide remarks aside, i just hope the space station will get the supplies soon! it's not brain surgery..... it's rocket science.... so many failures.... how we ever gonna escape this planet... SpaceX is the next and coming space corporation......and if you actually followed the industry, you would realize every launch is extremely technical and dangerous.........DO NOT MAKE ASSUMPTIONS.........you know where that will lead....and the ISS is stocked well and no issues.....those in the business actually plan for these events.......your snide remarks are not appreciated in a time of a troubling and serious event. Please refrain till further news available from the proper authorities.....have a nice day......Draggendrop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malenfant Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Counter-intuitive S2 overpressure event. One way of putting it. It's going to be interesting to see how they handle this and move foward. How quickly. So... helium problem or space-based laser? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloatingFatMan Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Counter-intuitive S2 overpressure event. One way of putting it. It's going to be interesting to see how they handle this and move foward. How quickly. So... helium problem or space-based laser? Well, seeing as an explosion is an "overpressure event", and "counter-intuitive" means something unexpected. Why couldn't they just say "It exploded unexpectedly?" Honestly, I do wish these buggers would learn to speak human. I'm a geek and therefore understand a lot of it, but have some pity for the normal folks! natocccp 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+E.Worm Jimmy Subscriber¹ Posted June 28, 2015 Subscriber¹ Share Posted June 28, 2015 and if you actually followed the industry, you would realize every launch is extremely technical and dangerous....... you don't need to "follow the industry" to realize how complicated rocket science is. as i mentioned... anyway, i am all for them to find the cause and fix it. the more reliable space flight providers we have, the better for the human kind your snide remarks are not appreciated in a time of a troubling and serious event i had to listen to snide remarks at previous troubling and serious events of russian rocket failures. issue? natocccp 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted June 28, 2015 Author Share Posted June 28, 2015 > i have to listen to snide remarks at previous troubling and serious events of russian rocket failures. issue? Russia has suffered numerous failures of multiple launchers for at least 5 years, and they've admitted they have systemic problems. Moreover, several of these have been similar problems which have not been corrected in spite of being documented, in at least one case over a decade ago. The single point failures US launchers have experienced were in one case caused by a Russian engine (Antares) and in the other (F9) undetermined. In both cases corrections were/will be made. In many of their events Russia has Band-Aid'ed their way to reflight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tompkin Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 I'm way off topic on this post but normally don't post in the Science forum. Saw where SpaceX rocket exploded shortly after takeoff. Thanks. natocccp 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draggendrop Veteran Posted June 28, 2015 Veteran Share Posted June 28, 2015 you don't need to "follow the industry" to realize how complicated rocket science is. as i mentioned... anyway, i am all for them to find the cause and fix it. the more reliable space flight providers we have, the better for the human kind i have to listen to snide remarks at previous troubling and serious events of russian rocket failures. issue? So do a few of us....every tragedy generally has a culprit...and most of us feel bad for all space related accidents...especially for those who put massive amounts of their life's work into it. Some causes are "sometimes" more predictable than others......This one was quite astounding and caught everyone (millions of followers, a lot of which are SpaceX fans such as myself) off guard........I was offended in this case by the snide remark and did not appreciate this in the early phase of this investigation....So yes...I do have an issue! Jim K 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted June 28, 2015 Author Share Posted June 28, 2015 I'm way off topic on this post but normally don't post in the Science forum. Saw where SpaceX rocket exploded shortly after takeoff. Thanks. The upper stage suffered a decompression of its liquid oxygen tank shortly before the upper stage separated. The first stage appears to have been successful. There's speculation some cargo came loose and impacted the upper stage causing the tank failure, but there are other possible causes. SpaceX has onboard cameras and 3000 telemetry channels on Falcon 9 so the cause will be found sooner than later. Draggendrop 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draggendrop Veteran Posted June 28, 2015 Veteran Share Posted June 28, 2015 I'm way off topic on this post but normally don't post in the Science forum. Saw where SpaceX rocket exploded shortly after takeoff. Thanks. You should join us in the science forums for discussion...you are more than welcomed here...we don't bite..."usually"...today was a very sad day but we will regroup...Thanks for showing interest...Cheers.... tompkin 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tompkin Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 You should join us in the science forums for discussion...you are more than welcomed here...we don't bite..."usually"...today was a very sad day but we will regroup...Thanks for showing interest...Cheers.... Thank you Draggendrop, I really appreciate it. I will start following this forum because I've always been interested in space flight. I used to watch all the Gemeni and Apollo launches. I don't really know anything about science though and couldn't really add anything. I didn't even recognize the stated topic as pertaining to today's launch. I'm a big fan of space flight though!! Draggendrop 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bguy_1986 Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Thank you Draggendrop, I really appreciate it. I will start following this forum because I've always been interested in space flight. I used to watch all the Gemeni and Apollo launches. I don't really know anything about science though and couldn't really add anything. I didn't even recognize the stated topic as pertaining to today's launch. I'm a big fan of space flight though!! I'm in the same boat as you. Interested in space flight and I don't know jack about science. I'm just here to ask a few, probably stupid questions (which nobody ever has a problem with) and get my Space news without a bunch of scientists adding their input or discussing it. I think the NSF forums are kind of that way. I tried following (for a very short time) but felt like I can't keep up with it in my busy schedule. tompkin 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted June 28, 2015 Author Share Posted June 28, 2015 NSF threads can get pretty far into the details of things, and if you're not up on your rocket equation derivations more than a bit confusing. That said, its an amazing resource - especially Level 2 (L2) where the industry people talk in even more detail and with non-public information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unobscured Vision Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 I've been busy all day, finally was able to catch up on news and I saw *this*. I suppose that it was bound to happen sometime. Those dodgy tanks again, eh. Are they saying for sure whether it was overpressure or an actual strike from the new docking hardware that came loose and punctured the bottom of the trunk and kept going into the second stage LO2 tank? I know it's still very early in the diagnostic and event reconstruction process, but the Falcon 9 simply ... shattered like broken glass ... damn, that's difficult to watch. I've grown fond of those rockets. And was that the Dragon + Trunk activating its' LAS at the start of the event, attempting to get away? Sure looked like it to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unobscured Vision Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 Overpressure is the word coming from the data streams, including from Elon Musk himself. Wonder what caused it. My halfway-educated guess would be a Chiller System fault, up to and including an unresponsive valve either stuck open (or closed) when it needed to be the opposite. Obviously this is going to set timeframes way off now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted June 29, 2015 Author Share Posted June 29, 2015 BetaguyGZT, There was no LAS. Dragon survived and continued sending telemetry. With programming to deploy the chutes after a breakup it likely would have been recoverable. Bet that code is added next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingskippy Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 Slow motion of the RUD shows that S2 tank ruptured vertical. The failure did occur after they announced the MVac chill. If a valve, allowing for lox to begin flowing for the chill, were stuck closed then it could possibly cause an overpressure situation. However, there are multiple pressure relief valves/burst disks to prevent this exact situation. We could probably speculate for years without looking at the data. Let's just hope for a quick fix, fast return to flight, and no loss of contracts. 2015 has been a burdened year for spaceflight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malenfant Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 Perhaps elon used the word over pressure counter-intuitively. Perhaps he was referring to external pressure which caused the tank to deform and fail. Even a momentary under pressurization in the tank and the flight loads tear it apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draggendrop Veteran Posted June 29, 2015 Veteran Share Posted June 29, 2015 The internet "debate" is certainly getting heated.....along with the cursory warnings as well..... The speculation, in my opinion, is getting way overboard. Since we don't have access to "sensor data", observations can only lead to "foot in mouth" for anything past what we saw with our own eyes. I believe this event blindsided a few, myself included......very traumatic......This needs to get solved as fast as possible and get back to work....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unobscured Vision Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 Agreed. Let's wait and see what the sensor data reveals, fix the problem(s) and get back to work. SpaceX will learn from this failure and it won't bite them in the ass again. Space travel is difficult, and Murphy's Law applies. All of my well-wishes to SpaceX and Orbital both. All my hopes for speedy fixes to the problem(s) both companies currently face, and a speedy return to flight. Let's get back on the board, folks. Draggendrop 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draggendrop Veteran Posted June 29, 2015 Veteran Share Posted June 29, 2015 The one thing that caught my attention was stage one, all engines firing........with all this chaos occurring right on top........and she was still pushing away while getting the "hell" hammered out of her. That........is what I call........ "one tough stage".....then we have Dragon, still (what seemed) intact as well.....that was a "heavy weight" fight........ Unobscured Vision 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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