Space and Time Debate


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When you are in space free-floating, away from the Earths orbit, does time differenciate from the time on Earth. For example: Monkey A is in space, does his day go by any slower than Monkey B's day on Earth.

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Ok I need more opinions because my friend thinks that If I have a timer in space, that timer id going to move slower than the timer on Earth. He is stuck on this man-made thing that we call time. What I am trying to say is three hours is three hours no matter where you are in the universe.

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Time has a direct relation with gravity. In therorie anyhow. This is the reason why you would never actualy reach the center of a black hole, because as gravity gets 'heavier' and 'hevier', time travels slower and slower, so in therorie if you could look out of a black hole you could see everything that would ever happen in the world, but first it would go so fast that you woulnt be able to watch it, B. you would be crushed a long time ago, and 3) you cant realy see out of a black hole because light gets sucked into it.

Three hours is not three hours no matter where you are. This also brings up the question about what time it too, is it just a figment of our imagine? What if time were a constant, defined in every aspect, you could easly travel back in time, but you would have to follow the exact same path you did. Fate i guess. It goes in very well with the modern theroie of the creation of the universe that was dispached a while ago by hawken (?) that the univers is expanding and will contract, bringing time backwards with it. If time were constant, any human varables would be taken out of the equation because in reality there would be no human varables, that in fact we are just a sumnation of attoms in a system so complex we think we are seintient.

Space(mass) time contium they call it.

They actualy did this with the space shuttle, took a clock up to compair with real time, and the clocks were in fact off. You dont actualy experince time any difrently, it just passes difrent relitive to other people. Everything is relitive.

I realise that there are gross spelling errors in this post and im WAY too lazy to even try and fix them.

Edited by lostspyder
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as Homie said, unless the space monkey is traveling at a significant speed (i.e. near the speed of light) there won't be any difference in the time they measure, there may be a difference tho because the earth monkey is moving (since he's on the earth, then he's moving at the speed of the earth) relative to the other monkey, but it won't be a significant difference, i.e. tenths of a second.

it's Hawking, btw, and they also did a different experiment, on top of a very tall building and at ocean level, and again, the clocks were off by a few tenths of a second, this is because, the speed closer to the earth center is less than that of the top of the building (farther from the center of the earth)

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it is not velocity that is a factor so much as acceleration. if they are both at constant velocities, I. E. neither is experiencing any sort of acceleration, then the time differentials should be the same - but if one experiences a greater acceleration than the other, then there should be an impact.

however, another key point is that the impact with small differences in acceleration is going o be so small that it would be immeasurable in our lifetimes. So, in order to have a *measurable* difference on the effect of time, the difference in acceleration would have to be quite large.

But, not necessarily the speed of light - lower differences would be sufficient.

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I dont understand how a clock can actually create a difference based on distance from the earth. No matter what, the clock is still measuring earth time. I also dont understand how the amount of gravity induced can have an effect on time :/ . someone plz explain

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I dont understand how a clock can actually create a difference based on distance from the earth.  No matter what, the clock is still measuring earth time. I also dont understand how the amount of gravity induced can have an effect on time :/ .  someone plz explain

Look at how wind is made, a difrence in tempature between two points. Everything isnt so isolated and individual as we once had imagined. It is belived that all the forces, ALL the forces, strong nuclear, weak nuclear, electromagnetic, and ect are all related. The grand unification therories, or GUTs for short. How much do you realy know about gravity? How much do you seriously know about gravity and time? practicly nothing in the scheme of things, a spec of sand on the shore. Why is it so dificult to imagine theat they have a direct relation between each other? A clock doesnt measure time relitive to the earth, it measures time relitive to itself. Look how a clock even works, most clocks use a cristal that virbrates milions of time per second at a constant rate, and we mearly count thoes vibrations and use them as a unit of time. The actual meaning of a second is like the amount of time it takes for a certin isotope to vibrate a cirtan amound of time. Look at the way lgiht bends around black holes, thats how we know where a blackj hole is. The light bends around the hole, creating a halo of light around the hole, and we know there isnt a giant circle star out there (fairly certin of it anyhooo). If light is affected by gravity, why woulnt time be? Gravity is MUCH MUCH more then the thing that makes us fall off of our bikes and gives us skined knees.

Study physics the rest of your life, and you might be able to grasp the concept, if your lucky.

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The was the famous experiment they did in the early 80's with the Concorde. They took two atomic clocks, perfectly in sync, then put one on a Concorde headed for NYC. When it got there, it was a fraction (a really small fraction, that is) of a second behind the one that had stayed on ground.

But if you had a timer floating in space, it'd register the same as one on earth.

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Look at how wind is made, a difrence in tempature between two points. Everything isnt so isolated and individual as we once had imagined. It is belived that all the forces, ALL the forces, strong nuclear, weak nuclear, electromagnetic, and ect are all related. The grand unification therories, or GUTs for short. How much do you realy know about gravity? How much do you seriously know about gravity and time? practicly nothing in the scheme of things, a spec of sand on the shore. Why is it so dificult to imagine theat they have a direct relation between each other? A clock doesnt measure time relitive to the earth, it measures time relitive to itself. Look how a clock even works, most clocks use a cristal that virbrates milions of time per second at a constant rate, and we mearly count thoes vibrations and use them as a unit of time. The actual meaning of a second is like the amount of time it takes for a certin isotope to vibrate a cirtan amound of time. Look at the way lgiht bends around black holes, thats how we know where a blackj hole is. The light bends around the hole, creating a halo of light around the hole, and we know there isnt a giant circle star out there (fairly certin of it anyhooo). If light is affected by gravity, why woulnt time be? Gravity is MUCH MUCH more then the thing that makes us fall off of our bikes and gives us skined knees.

Study physics the rest of your life, and you might be able to grasp the concept, if your lucky.

well put. So you're saying that the frequency changes based on the gravity in a watch. The watch moves slower due to forces placed upon it. In essence, i'm willing to bet that some scientific experimentation could yield a solution to aging or even possibly stop it. Say for example, you lived on pluto. The gravity is differnt, and the distance from the sun makes the planet rotate slower, would this slow/speed up the aging process?

if im not right, dont bother explianing anymore b/c i dont understand it :/

Edited by kaptain chump
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I'm getting messed up with all of this time stuff, I need the answer in something tangible I can understand. Forget the clocks. You have the two monkeys, one in space, one on earth. Does their hair and fingernails grow at the same rate?

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IMO, time is completely different from light. These experiments with the clocks in space or on a Concorde mess with the internal workings of the clock. Perhaps the isotope vibration is affected by gravity or by acceleration? The difference is that time is a CONCEPT. We use physical means to grasp the concept of time, and these physical means can be altered by other physical forces. The concept of time remains constant. Light can be altered by external forces, but time can't. I don't think that the monkey's nails or hair would grow any faster than one on Earth simpy because a clock sitting next to them reads a different amount of elapsed time than the one next to the monkey on Earth. Can we really believe that the change is in time rather than in the clock's presentation of time? Would it take me longer to count to 100 in space than it would on Earth?

So, to answer the original question: no, time does not differ. Our mechanical representations of time differ in their reports of the passing of time.

Don't take my word for it, though, because even though I just took Physics in college, I am by no means an expert.

Edited by jkinzer
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The was the famous experiment they did in the early 80's with the Concorde. They took two atomic clocks, perfectly in sync, then put one on a Concorde headed for NYC. When it got there, it was a fraction (a really small fraction, that is) of a second behind the one that had stayed on ground.

But if you had a timer floating in space, it'd register the same as one on earth.

no it wouldnt, the clock on earth is affected verys trongly by teh force of earths gravity, it is also rotating along with the earth, speed and gravity the two things that affect time dialation. the clock on earth would be going faster because the clock in space is not affected as stongly by gravity as the clock on earth, and it isnt completing revolutions of teh earth

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I'm getting messed up with all of this time stuff, I need the answer in something tangible I can understand. Forget the clocks. You have the two monkeys, one in space, one on earth. Does their hair and fingernails grow at the same rate?

To put is simply as posible, each ape would notice there fingernails growing at a normal rate, each would NOTICE there fingernails growing at the same rate, but after a year has passed for YOU the two apes would not have the same length of fingernails, and if they both had a set life span of lets say 2 years, one will die allot sooner then the other. If the apes took measuments of there fingernails after they notice a year go by for them and you compiared the two measurments, they would be the same length. Time is a matter of preception. It passes at the same exact rate for each individual (theroreticaly anyhow) but difrently relitive to others. Lets take a guy running down a train thats going 25mph. He can run 5mph. To someone siting in the train, he is going 5mph. To someone watching from the roadside, he is going 30mph, and to the car thats going 30mph beside and in the same direction as the train, he is not moving at all.It all a matter of preception.

Heres another example to clairfy, you send a clock up into space with joe and you stay here on earth with another clock, and after the sun has rotated around the earth once you both compair your clocks, they will be difrent. Im not exactly shure which would be faster and so on, but it does happen because of gravity, that much im positive about.

Also time is not a concept, if it were a concept, it would possible if not probable for soemone to exist outside of time, because they never chose to acknolage this concept. Look at single celled organisms, do they experince 'time', of corse they do, but could they posibley ever have the vaugest notion that an hour has passed, hell no. Time is the fourth deminsion, and is VERY tangable, and if you chose to say no, you best have some damn good evidence, because your going agains the greatist minds that this earth has seen. Ever hear of the fourth deminsion? Its time. Theres also a few other dimensions too, they have something to do with traviling along a spiral in an atom i think, but i dont know egnouf to talk about thoes. Everything in this world is logical, and can be sumerised by an equation (the complexity would dwarf anything weve ever seen, but nontheless tangable). Who knows gravity and time might be the exact same thing.

Edited by lostspyder
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Ack why does everything have to be so complex? Like many people said earlier, time is a man made way to relate passing. So with that in hand, Monkey A and Monkey B will have the same rates of energy production in their mitocondria, hair growth, etc. I just can not accept that being away from earth will make me age sloer etc. I don't understand the black hole theory, but who knows.

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as the theory says, it's all relative. what losspyder says is correct, they each would notice the same, however to an observer outside of the "ape system" there would be a difference and one would die sooner.

T=To / sqrt(1-v?/c?)

this is special relativity, time is different on two objects (in this case the apes) when they are moving at different speeds. So the time for one ape is different than the time for the other ape, but each ape will have their "own time" so nothing will seem to be different since they each are on a different frame of reference.

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