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Edge + no extension support = failed.

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+Ryster    770

For me, I can live with Edge until extension support arrives, but only because I discovered and up to date list of ad servers I could add to the my hosts file :)

Just go here and add the list of URLs to your host file. Works like a charm and websites feel clean again, without installing third party software :)

http://2in1pcs.com/block-ads-ie-metro-apps-hosts-file-windows-rt/

Edited by Ryster

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Circaflex    3,555

Windows 10 has failed because it wasn't there waiting for me when I opened my laptop on July 29th.

Nice attempt at trolling, but you didn't look hard enough or you were misinformed. Not everyone received the upgrade via Windows Update on the 29th, some did. If you did not want to wait, and wanted it that day, you could have easily gone to microsofts website and downloaded the installer to do the upgrade.

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Boo Berry    2,264

For me, I can live with Edge until extension support arrives, but only because I discovered and up to date list of ad servers I could add to the my hosts file :)

Just go here and add the list of URLs to your host file. Works like a charm and websites feel clean again, without installing third party software :)

http://2in1pcs.com/block-ads-ie-metro-apps-hosts-file-windows-rt/

Personally I rather not potentially slow down connections, IMO.

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Circaflex    3,555

Side note after your recommendations Boo Berry I gave adguard a shot and loved it. Saw you can get it for free by beta testing, but signed up for the lifetime anyways. Submitted a request for beta testing as well, but figured I'd support the small team that brought us adguard. :)

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Wyn6    358

Chrome came into the market with other browsers trumping it 10 times over with features.  Now look at it.  So I wouldn't put all my eggs in that basket just yet.

People seem to conveniently forget that a competitor dominating a particular segment of the market doesn't preclude others from entering that same market. This is especially true for those that have a bias against a certain company or product, in this instance Microsoft and its products.

You see. At any given time, throughout history, there have been those that have dominated the market. Ford, GMC, and Dodge dominated the U.S. auto market for decades. When Honda and Toyota came to the U.S., they were niche automakers. They didn't compete with the American desire for big, powerful, gas-guzzling American-made cars. Now, look. Honda and Toyota outsell all of the American automakers in the mid-sized sedan segment.

That is but one of tens of thousands of examples. Microsoft, Google, and Apple have all been underdogs at one point in their existence. And, each have risen to stand atop the mountain. But, we've also learned from that, nobody stays on top forever.

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+DonC    607

Nice attempt at trolling, but you didn't look hard enough or you were misinformed. Not everyone received the upgrade via Windows Update on the 29th, some did. If you did not want to wait, and wanted it that day, you could have easily gone to microsofts website and downloaded the installer to do the upgrade.

All I did was apply the same fallacious logic as the OP.

Extension support is already announced as a feature and scheduled for October. I wouldn't expect any significant change in uptake when that happens.

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adrynalyne    12,118

That it is less complete and polished than something in Visual Basic. The engine is awesome, yea, but try the context menu on anything, or dragging a bookmark, or site favicons, or reopening a tab, or any myriad of other things that a current generation complete browser has without question.

The language someone writes something in doesn't determine polish, LOL.

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Zagadka    4,059

The language someone writes something in doesn't determine polish, LOL.

Sigh. I just meant it is amateurish.

Work on your metaphors, people.

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Ravensky    632

same here, unemployed so I had to uninstall adguard =/

Microsoft should buy Adguard and add it to Windows Defender...

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Boo Berry    2,264

same here, unemployed so I had to uninstall adguard =/

Microsoft should buy Adguard and add it to Windows Defender...

If you don't mind doing some beta testing, you can get a free license.

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+Ryster    770

Personally I rather not potentially slow down connections, IMO.

I get no slowdown. In fact Edge now loads ad-laden pages much much faster than before. Whereas before sites like Windows Central would cause Edge to freeze for a few seconds while the ads loaded, now that has gone away. I can start scrolling instantly. And I don't have to have a third party application running on my PC consuming resources.

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slam_speech    22

They are planning to update Edge with extension support it in a little over a month, but haven't even bothered to release the API.  The problem is, when they do the update in a month, the store is going to be pretty barren starting out.  So, it might be a while before we actually see very many extensions.  

Hopefully, they don't fall into the same trap that Safari for Mac has.  It is pretty trivial to port an extension from Chrome to Safari (in fact Chrome's API is based on Safari's), however, the Safari extension repository pales in comparison to Chrome's.  

If I were Microsoft, I would release a developer edition of Edge right now, publish the API and get developers hyped.  That way when the public release does support add ons they will have a lot more add ons lined up besides a few examples.

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rfirth    740

Edge is fine, but I'm not going to use it until they add Tracking Protection Lists.

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slam_speech    22

Anyway, it's ignorant to call Microsoft out because "they've shown they aren't capable of making a decent browser". Without Microsoft, we now wouldn't have AJAX, favicons, an aweful lot of the "modern" CSS3 and HTML5 capabilities (that are actually from the late '90s based on ideas from Microsoft).

What you mention below is a very small portion of HTML5/CSS3.  But I do agree MS was leading the way in the 90's.

Back in the '90s, Internet Explorer was far beyond its time, gradients, box-shadows, XMLHttpRequests, etc., etc... It was all possible in Internet Explorer 5, just implemented differently from the standard that was written 6 to 14 years later.

Gradients, box-shadows were actually done by an ActiveX plugin.  You could do these things with other plugins (ex Java) at the time.   I do agree about AJAX. 

Web Componenents? IE had it back in the '90s as "HTML Components". Or the about-to-become-standard VML. 

Vector Markup Language is dead.  It was removed in IE10 in favor of SVG which has been in Firefox since 1.5.  The initial drafts of SVG started in 1999.

If you really want to blame someone for that IE eventually didn't follow the standards that where made afterwards, you should blame Netscape and Mozilla.

I can't think of any drafts from Microsoft that were actually pushed back by Netscape, it was the exact opposite.  Netscape tried to submit standards and Microsoft would submit a competing standard or push to reject what Netscape submitted.  JSSS and <layer> come to mind, right off the top of my head.

The W3C ignored Netscape back in the late 90's and Mozilla in the early 2000's. (More on that below.)  They actually favored Microsoft a lot more.  Microsoft actually turned the attention of the W3C to XML in the early 2000's.

Microsoft proposed all their innovations (because that was what they where) as standards to the then young W3C. Their implementations have all been drafts that would have made it until Mozilla started to complain, and if suddenly all your work of the past years becomes irrelevant and you have to start from scratch to redo the implementations, of course it goes wrong then.

The only drafts I could find that met any opposition were on Web Services (XML and SOAP).  That was back in 2004 and the opposition was by Sun and IBM.  Then IBM sided with MS.  

The issue at that time Mozilla went out on their own, was the W3C moved way too slow and diverted all their attention to XML.  The W3C didn't listen to Opera, Mozilla, and Apple back in the early 2000's. 

That led to the formation of WHATWG group to advance HTML (they had the initial HTML5 documents finished in 2007).  Here is the kicker...Opera and Mozilla submitted a paper to W3C in June of 2004, called Web Forms 2.0--basically enhancements to HTML forms.  They were voted down because the W3C was finished working on HTML and wanted to focus on XML.  By 2007/2008, there weren't any Drafts from IE5/6 era that hadn't been approved.  The other browser makers were implementing the initial HTML 5 drafts during that time.

The only mistake they made was that they didn't release any new version in 5 years. They've shown to be perfectly capable of making a great browser, they just had the odds against them in the early 2000 when the standards got completely rewritten.

They weren't rewritten, the problem was both Netscape and Microsoft had their own proprietary standards and largely ignored the standards already established by W3C.  (Netscape Communicator 4 was a lot worse about it than IE though) 

Sorry, if I come off the wrong way.  I am just really familiar with that time frame.  I developed web sites and hung out on dev boards a lot during that time.

 

Edited by slam_speech
Clarification

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+trag3dy    4,076

For those who are interested you can get adguard pretty cheap (until they change it, if they do)

1 Device - Lifetime sub - $49.95 / £28.07

If you pay in Russian Roubles and pay through paypal it works out much much cheaper. I did this and got a licence immediately :)

1 Device - Lifetime sub - $8.084 / £5.175

I can't wait for Edge to mature, seems like a very good browser so far :D

How do you pay with russian roubles? :shifty:

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slam_speech    22

IE users will probably be the first ones to switch over.  People that use whatever browser is available will just use Edge because it's there.  At this point, IE users are used to not having any extension (save a few like Lastpass), so it won't be a huge deal unless they use TPL's.

The tougher market will be Non-IE browsers.  First impressions matter a lot here.  There is a lot besides extensions that are missing from Edge.  Which could cause a lot of Chrome users to try it and go right back to Chrome without giving it a second chance later.  That is the real issue.

If you look throughout history--a browser is leading the way and rises to dominance at some point they drop the ball and another browser picks it up and runs with it.  Netscape was on top then they totally dropped it in 4 (that and MS had a lot more resources).  MS led the way until 6, then they stagnated for 5 year (plus 3 if you count IE7).  Firefox led the way and had 40% of the market in 2010.  However, they fell around 3.6.  TBH, Chrome at the time had a rapid release cycle and Mozilla couldn't keep up.  FX also had bad memory leaks and was unstable and was not nearly as fast as Chrome.  And IE was still playing catch up.

Every time there was a significant reason for people to get out of their comfort zone with whatever browser they were using and switch.  There are core users, which are in love with the browser for whatever reason (i.e. integration with Google Services).  Then there's the regular user, that follows what's popular.  Those are the people that are easiest to get.  However, there has to be a compelling reason besides extensions (because only 30% of Chrome users even use extensions) to get your passive user to switch, that Chrome doesn't offer.  Otherwise, it will just be seen as another browser.  Speed can help, but not when you're just little faster than your competitors.  Cortana is their killer feature--it all depends on how well people take it into their workflow.

Basically, the leading browser has to start sucking and get people to look elsewhere.  Or you have to be much better than the competition.

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+Anarkii    2,252

I wouldn't say Edge failed, more like, the lack of AdBlock means the browser wont really take off and be used by power-users like us members and tech savvy kids/teens. The everyday folk and older generation wont care, and will use it to check their emails and build up their adware and malware and get their grandsons to come over every month to fix their PCs.

When it does get AdBlock, I can't see any reason why it wont be a popular browser though.

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Zagadka    4,059

When it does get AdBlock, I can't see any reason why it wont be a popular browser though.

Something as simple as moving a bookmark from one folder to another, accomplished everywhere else by a process known as "dragging", is know in Edge as, "yea, give us a few months"

I mean, seriously, the UI doesn't even come close to matching the rest of W10, in any event.

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adrynalyne    12,118

Sigh. I just meant it is amateurish.

Work on your metaphors, people.

You mean you should work on them. VB also doesn't imply amateurish so how could it be used as a metaphor?

 

So far your last three comments have made little sense. 

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Zagadka    4,059

Because, of course, all programming for distribution with an operating system on a billion or so devices is written in Visual Basic.

In more intelligent terms, try dragging a bookmark. I dare you. Double or nothing, reopen a tab. Then turn that in to a community college visual design course. Edge is hideously outside of Win10's already loosely defined standards.

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+Anarkii    2,252

Here is what I think is wrong with Edge so far.

1. Dark mode - when you first fire it up, you cant see the address input box.
2. The home button is disabled by default.
3. No AdBlock
4. No extension support (seperate to AdBlock because that should be a part of every browser, specially in todays ad-infested Internet)
5. Settings is hidden away in the ... menu
6. You cant reorder bookmarks by drop and drag.

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Zagadka    4,059

That is a decent list. I would add changing the appearance of the menus, URL bar, etc to match the rest of Win10 instead of the bloated items it currently uses (clearly for touch, but it just looks bad elsewhere)

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techbeck    6,907

Edge may be the new browser for MS, but IE is not going anywhere anytime soon. 

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