• Sign in to Neowin Faster!

    Create an account on Neowin to contribute and support the site.

Sign in to follow this  

Windows 10 aero taskbar?

Recommended Posts

DevTech    1,518

 

I take it that the blog post you are talking about is this one: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2012/05/18/creating-the-windows-8-user-experience.aspx

I am struggling to see how people are making the connection between 'we aren't using that visual style/design language any more' to 'we took out the capability of the desktop compositing engine that does graphical transformations'.  I believe the truth in the former but struggle to understand what the evidence is for the latter. It's quite possible that I am missing something here.

Your question is reasonable.

It took a lot of work to dig out various information and it is not easily located due to the huge volume of noise in that time period and it's all in various blogs and forums and digging thru 100's of comments to a blog post to see a Microsoft employee add a comment etc. If I had known back then that there would be an effort to re-write history, I would have bookmarked everything. At the time I just wanted to get to the bottom of things and know what the heck was going on inside Microsoft that they themselves were so self adsorbed at the time just couldn't see the damage they were causing.

I will try to post links as I come across them but my motivation is mixed since many posters in this thread are very polarized in their viewpoint and facts just get in the way of them trying to score points in some imaginary war of the UI. The one excellent link I posted which has many more links as soon as you hit it has obviously not been read at all by people that asked for the information.

So "please post a link that I won't read" comes across more as a challenge than a desire to be informed. I don't think you are in that category.

So here is the background for now without any links. At the time there was a huge political divide between DevDiv and WinDiv and Microsoft's former management style let various divisions go at each other in a vicious survival of the fittest manner. WinDiv had all the employees with low badge numbers which have enormous authority independent of job title and DevDiv had .NET which was hugely successful and the new star of that technology was WPF. Sinofsky was from WinDiv and was awarded the reigns of power. He hated .NET with a passion and was determined to kill everything he could within his new power. This was a time where DevDiv people could read the writing on the wall and many vital key players bailed out of Microsoft and many more transferred into Azure because Servers were safe from Sinofsky. The other main fact to note is that the Internet Explorer Team was in WinDiv and not DevDiv so  they became part of Sinofsky's plan against .NET. The first outside indication was the killing of Silverlight. From what I could find out, we can't blame Sinofsky for that. It seems as if it was part of a complex deal Balmer negotiated with Adobe as a ###### for tat on Adobe exiting mobile. Balmer being non technical saw Silverlight as a browser plug-in for playing video and not the enterprise deployment vehicle it was quickly becoming. To this day, huge corporations are still annoyed by that giant goof. Sinofsky took advantage of this to propose his WinDiv IE Team as the solution moving forward and integrated Javascript into Windows. This allowed him to disband the WPF Team and cut off the rising star of .NET - In Sinofsky's world, "Real Programmers" would use C++ and everyone else could use Javascript HTML5 which he promoted heavily as a "standard" - So I am covering a bit of the background so you can see the emotional climate of the times where the code for "glass" was just another skirmish in his overall vendetta against .NET. Many WPF programs made use of the glass code in one way or another and it was just another minor checklist item for Sinofsky to damage.  Windows has always deprecated stuff like this for backward compat and the normal procedure would be to not expose an API for it. Sinofsky specifically had this code ripped out so that third party software could not call directly to the code. It was mainly just ensuring something associated with WPF would stay gone but who knows for sure. It is documented that Sinofsky would shout and rage against .NET to his team. I'm sure if I had time I could word all this up much better and I would prefer it to read more technical and less "spy novel" but although the decisions at the time will have ripple effects for years to come, people want to deal with the ripples and don't really care how it all came about. One ripple effect was Sinofsky's HTML5 message resulted in some significant Microsoft enterprise customers moving away from Microsoft dev technology...

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DevTech    1,518

 

It will be back Dot :-)

In technology what comes around goes around. 1st it was mainframes/dumb terminals with the mainframe as the core. Then it was all about the PC doing the work. Personal was about to get away from logging in and dealing with oppressive IT. The PC was personal and could go around this etc.  Then it became about the file server and internet web sites with the pc being the smart terminal. Then it became about apps on phones. Now with HTML 5 and clouds it is back the other way again etc. The cloud is about not dealing with oppressive IT. The cloud is personal again for the departments who set it up to get around IT etc.

Design styles it is the same way and no the Galaxy 4 had an aero like UI that was skuemorphic and not flat. So yes it can be done. Look at Office 2013 and compare it to Office 2016? The colors are back and Windows 10 is less flat than 8/8.1 and it's desktop background (in my opinion is hideous) is very realist with the solid colors of 8/8.1 gone. 

It is going back again to a certain extent. In 5 to 10 years Apple artists will think what we have now looks dated and will start adding skuemorphic and realistic elements will back as well. It happens.

Anyway, my opinion is MS will cave in and let Windows not be like Apple which has a controlled UI. Let the user control what he or she wants? You can see that now with the ability to change the color of a freaking title bar again. Finally the black and white of office 2013 and Windows 10 build 240 are coming to an end. 

Yes. Yes.  exactly.

It's all part of Product Branding, and the cycles of a fashion industry to continually drive a sales cycle. All driven by marketing considerations.

It's just crazy how people confuse product branding with underlying code in an Operating System but then I guess they have been trained to perceive it exactly like that. Then they try to come up with all sorts of justifications to perceive the branding cycle as a technical evolution of some sort.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DevTech    1,518

Then WPF is not XAML, in spite of your previous comment, but again, your previous post was ambiguous, so perhaps I misunderstood.

I did not say that WPF applications do not use XAML, but that developers are not required to use XAML to build applications.

The point was that WPF is not required to build Universal App UIs with XAML.

 

 

Yes it is the same XAML that came from WPF. WPF is just an API that uses XAML for the front-end UI and C# as the backend. I never built a WPF app but I have not come across anything that says XAML is optional with it. I know they eventually brought in the ability mix in WinForms into your WPF app but I still think the majority of the app was XAML based. Either way, XAML was built for WPF, it took them 5 years to do it and then they ported it over to be used in Silverlight (WPF-Lite) and then WinRT. They certainly changed XAML a lot but it's built off the same technology otherwise it wouldn't be XAML.

WPF is an API on top of MILCore:https://maniish.wordpress.com/2007/10/08/whats-the-foundation-of-wpf-windows-presentation-foundation/ So yes, it was baked into WPF. It has since expanded of course but that goes back to my point, all of WinRT and its tech is based on the previous tech done from Windows Vista and .NET.

 

Just to clear up some factual errors in your posts:

1. XAML is NOT required for WPF or UWP - it is a markup language that gets translated into code that creates a visual tree. You can create all the UI elements directly from code if you like. XAML is a convenience to permit drag n drop visual designers and originally Microsoft envisoned a collaboration between designers using XAML in Microsoft Blend working with coders to implement the design which is a popular model in Web Design. It failed completely because XAML is very powerful and complex and the learning curve was way too steep for the average non tech "designer" - The few designers that made it to the top of the XAML mountain produced incredible stuff.

2, The WPF Team was completely disbanded at the time of WinRT. Some left Microsoft. Some transferred to Azure to escape Sinofsky. Some transfered from DevDiv to WinDiv to work on WinRT. Sinofsky wanted to do anything he could to kill .NET and WPF so WinRT is not actually based on any .NET code - It is part of the Windows API and it is coded in C/C++ like the rest of Windows which is why version 1 was so small. They started from zero. On the plus side, C++ finally had a new GUI on Windows to replace MFC. The ability to access WinRT from C# goes through a translation layer just like any call into the Windows API by a managed runtime. Sinofsky spent a lot of effort focusing on his WinDiv IE Team being able to access WinRT as the main way to make Apps moving forward. Of course reality has undone just about every part of Sinofsky's vendetta against .NET and it turns out that only a small percentage of Windows Store Apps are coded in either C++ or Javascript.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dot Matrix    7,438

10 is less flat than 8/8.1 and it's desktop background (in my opinion is hideous) is very realist with the solid colors of 8/8.1 gone. 

It is going back again to a certain extent. In 5 to 10 years Apple artists will think what we have now looks dated and will start adding skuemorphic and realistic elements will back as well. It happens.

Anyway, my opinion is MS will cave in and let Windows not be like Apple which has a controlled UI. Let the user control what he or she wants? You can see that now with the ability to change the color of a freaking title bar again. Finally the black and white of office 2013 and Windows 10 build 240 are coming to an end. 

No. Skeuphomorphism is dead, and for good reasons. There is no elements in new modern apps that would even accommodate theming, let alone a glass or other 3D titlebar.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dot Matrix    7,438

It is well known from those that followed the Insider stuff with MS. Aero was stripped out at the last minute in the Windows 8 timeframe and then Sinfosky posted a huge blog post about moving on from Aero and how "dated" it was. Several ex-MS have posted their experiences and journalists have posted what they heard.

I couldn't read this entire thread, but the basic arguments are so ridiculous. Are there any real tech guys or developers in here?

Universal Apps, how they look and how they function  now doesn't mean crap about the future of UI. Aero can come back or it won't. You can't predict it based on evidence of it not being here today. Universal Apps is just WinRT which is just a newer API built on the same .NET Framework as before. It was built on XAML which means it is very much capable of having Aero since that was baked into WPF which was.....XAML. Shocker.

So if you don't know anything about the backend of how WinRT works, can you please exit this conversation.

No, Aero was not stripped. The theming done in Windows 8 was meant to compliment to new environment, which Microsoft has moved to. Per the blog posting:

"We have made a number of improvements to the desktop visual appearance in Windows 8. Although we wanted the desktop to feel familiar, we also wanted to take some ideas from our new design language and apply them where we could.

We applied the principles of “clean and crisp” when updating window and taskbar chrome. Gone are the glass and reflections. We squared off the edges of windows and the taskbar. We removed all the glows and gradients found on buttons within the chrome. We made the appearance of windows crisper by removing unnecessary shadows and transparency. The default window chrome is white, creating an airy and premium look. The taskbar continues to blend into the desktop wallpaper, but appears less complicated overall.

To complete the story, we updated the appearance of most common controls, such as buttons, check boxes, sliders, and the Ribbon. We squared off the rounded edges, cleaned away gradients, and flattened the control backgrounds to align with our chrome changes. We also tweaked the colors to make them feel more modern and neutral."

I'm not sure how you could take this as "Aero was stripped out at the last minute", it wasn't. Aero isn't coming back for the same reason Luna isn't coming back.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dot Matrix    7,438

You are confusing underlying tech, GUI chrome, social trends and Product Branding in a ramble of fuzzy thinking.

And the tech level of participants in this thread varies all over the place so a word like "Aero" communicates something across all boundries so playing with words will not be a very helping thing to do here (IMO) unless some sort of drill-down is indicated.

It is amazing how people cling to Sinofsky like he was some sort of hero or lifeline. If that was so, Microsoft would not be removing all his "loyal band of idiots" inside the company and undoing much of his stupid moves like disbanding the WPF Team. Now after 4 years, the WPF Team lives again!

And 10 years from now you will pass by some computer in a dusty room still running the Windows 10 with the flat lifeless UI that nobody uses anymore and it will be sitting next to a WIndows 2000 computer with it's flat grey I.T. Windows and maybe you won't notice they are any different. UI trends are just an excuse for branding in the end and so just like the fashion industry in Paris, a new "look" will be coming down the tracks one after another but the entire house of cards works better if we don't admit this is the case. Shared delusion. Works for Apple... Oh wait. Apple Envy SInofsky is gone gone gone and Microsoft cares about customers again...

 

 

It's strange how you keep mentioning Sinofsky, as if he killed your dog or something...? Why do you seem to be out on a personal vendetta against him?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ian W    2,331

Just to clear up some factual errors in your posts:

1. XAML is NOT required for WPF or UWP - it is a markup language that gets translated into code that creates a visual tree. You can create all the UI elements directly from code if you like. XAML is a convenience to permit drag n drop visual designers and originally Microsoft envisoned a collaboration between designers using XAML in Microsoft Blend working with coders to implement the design which is a popular model in Web Design. It failed completely because XAML is very powerful and complex and the learning curve was way too steep for the average non tech "designer" - The few designers that made it to the top of the XAML mountain produced incredible stuff.

Please go back and read what was posted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DevTech    1,518

It's strange how you keep mentioning Sinofsky, as if he killed your dog or something...? Why do you seem to be out on a personal vendetta against him?

Sinofsky created a situation. Microsoft is still repairing the damage he created but they are approaching the task in a customer-centric manner. He had a vendetta against .NET and that's the total sum of vendetta's around here... He keeps coming up because he directly created the problems Microsoft is fixing. To not mention him in the context if this discussion would be just plain weird.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DevTech    1,518

No, Aero was not stripped. The theming done in Windows 8 was meant to compliment to new environment, which Microsoft has moved to. Per the blog posting:

"We have made a number of improvements to the desktop visual appearance in Windows 8. Although we wanted the desktop to feel familiar, we also wanted to take some ideas from our new design language and apply them where we could.

We applied the principles of “clean and crisp” when updating window and taskbar chrome. Gone are the glass and reflections. We squared off the edges of windows and the taskbar. We removed all the glows and gradients found on buttons within the chrome. We made the appearance of windows crisper by removing unnecessary shadows and transparency. The default window chrome is white, creating an airy and premium look. The taskbar continues to blend into the desktop wallpaper, but appears less complicated overall.

To complete the story, we updated the appearance of most common controls, such as buttons, check boxes, sliders, and the Ribbon. We squared off the rounded edges, cleaned away gradients, and flattened the control backgrounds to align with our chrome changes. We also tweaked the colors to make them feel more modern and neutral."

I'm not sure how you could take this as "Aero was stripped out at the last minute", it wasn't. Aero isn't coming back for the same reason Luna isn't coming back.

You keep getting confused about the glass code that enabled much of Aero and the particular Branding of Windows that was known as Aero.

He was completely correct. The code was stripped out at the last minute on direct order by Sinofsky.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DevTech    1,518

 

No. Skeuphomorphism is dead, and for good reasons. There is no elements in new modern apps that would even accommodate theming, let alone a glass or other 3D titlebar.  

You are being extra silly on this one unless you own a Tardis or are a close friend of the Doctor.

Branding in the computer bizz is a fashion industry. You have no idea whatsoever how the fashion will flow in a few years and neither does anyone else.

If Microsoft wants to add a customizable Titlebar to their App development, they will if they want to and your thoughts on the matter won't stop them. Oh wait. They DID in fact make Titlebars customizable in Windows 10 for Apps!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
neo1911    793

 

It is a fact that whatever you want to name it, Aero code IS returning to the OS.

There is no technical reason that various Glass effects couldn't be exposed as a XAML style etc to the WIndows Runtime if Microsoft wanted to add it to the API.

Sinofsky's attempt to be a "Big Brother" Apple wannabe failed miserably and his take on the "App UI" will fade over time as Microsoft listens to customer feedback like they should have from the start.

The idea is choice. Apple gives NO choice. Microsoft has been an advocate of choice except for the "Sinofsky Experiment" and over time its hard to predict how things will evolve.

The internals of DWM and Windows Composition are still be worked on and updating very slowly since this is critical code that needs to be performant on a huge range of devices. Within practical technical restrictions there is an obvious intent to deliver over time as much customization as they can.

 

Somehow, I feel the real reason for this current hideous Windows design that started from Windows 8 is her majesty Julie Larsen-Green.

Sinofsky is a lame duck caught in the crossfire and was made into a scapegoat. Office 2007 under him was perfect.

Just a hunch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DevTech    1,518

Please go back and read what was posted.

But I did.

I quoted both of you because you had an ambiguous back and forth going and the impression to other readers seemed sure to result in the idea that XAML would be required everywhere it is commonly used when in fact it's optional although it would be sheer crazy not to use it!

I should have used the word "clarification" instead of "error" - sorry about that.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DevTech    1,518

Somehow, I feel the real reason for this current hideous Windows design that started from Windows 8 is her majesty Julie Larsen-Green.

Sinofsky is a lame duck caught in the crossfire and was made into a scapegoat. Office 2007 under him was perfect.

Just a hunch.

Sinofsky assembled quite a carnival side show of idiots that either proved the Peter Principle or were just suck-ups. Too bad real talented people actually had to work for them!

Sinofsky delivered Office and perhaps he himself was Peter Principle material as he stepped up to the most powerful role in Microsoft (at that time) and viewed it as a stepping stone to Balmer's job. So either Pride or Incompetence goeth before the fall...

I'll try to dig up names but the UI lead designer for Windows 7 has made various comments and reading the guy Sinofsky put into his place was like an idiot compared to the 7 guy.

So Larsen-Green deserves all the bricks you can throw her way but I never came across anything one way or another to single her out for that part of the whole mess.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
bluesman86    360

Your Ad-Hominen attacks just make you look immature and silly and are the refuge of people who don't have a good argument. You bring up "immature" and "childish" so often that it suggests you have insecurities in that area or else can't see how silly that makes you look.

You don't want to collaborate or listen, just score debating points. I'm sure you will make a point of getting in "the last post" in this imaginary debate of yours so you can think you have won. You are welcome to that satisfaction.

Microsoft does not agree with your line of reasoning and have firmly entrenched the "childish" idea of supporting their vast spectrum of customers after a brief flirtation with Apple Arrogance (tm) of the Sinofsky era. They have cleaned house. Sinofsky and his gang of idiots are long gone.

Microsoft can change their mind on anything at all in the future if it is good business but at the moment Windows 10 is supposed to be the "last" version of Windows by using continuous updates. This obviously means the current UI will transform into something else on some sort of periodic basis which is why the Glass code is going back into Windows. It's so simple and nothing to do with your perceived view of different versions of Windows as some sort of rare vintage of wine - Windows is Windows that always evolved the kernel and pasted a refreshed "look" to brand a new version for sales reasons.

The investigation of UI and projections into the future may be a waste of time to you because you aren't interested in that but for others it may be an interesting activity. You are very quick to tell other people what to do and what to think but my point all along has been to let people decide for themselves what they are interested in.

 

 

 

I attacked you personally because you're being ridiculous and acting like a stubborn child or some kind of autist. If you read my previous replies, you would find that I have a good argument that I support all over the place. So far you haven't come up with any proof or reasoning to support yours. I'd go as far as saying that I have more credibility than you on the subject, as UI/UX-design is a big part of my job. The only person who looks silly here is you, because you seem to want to desperately cling on to something that's over and done. By the way, inserting common Latin expressions into your reply doesn't make you look smart or help your argument along.

I like I said before, Microsoft has always been consistent with the look and feel of Windows in all their versions. They never changed the look after RTM. Windows 10 is the first one that gets subtle changes, but they all follow the same basic principle: flat design. They're not going to reintroduce glass into the interface. That has nothing to do with Apple or Sinofsky, two things you seem to be completely consumed with for some strange reason.

But hey, keep dreaming about glass effects in the OS on your computer if it makes you happy. It's obviously extremely important to your life.

 

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ian W    2,331

I quoted both of you because you had an ambiguous back and forth going and the impression to other readers seemed sure to result in the idea that XAML would be required everywhere it is commonly used when in fact it's optional although it would be sheer crazy not to use it!

That certainly was not the intention.

I should have used the word "clarification" instead of "error" - sorry about that.

I see. Thank you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DevTech    1,518

 

I attacked you personally because you're being ridiculous and acting like a stubborn child or some kind of autist. If you read my previous replies, you would find that I have a good argument that I support all over the place. So far you haven't come up with any proof or reasoning to support yours. I'd go as far as saying that I have more credibility than you on the subject, as UI/UX-design is a big part of my job. The only person who looks silly here is you, because you seem to want to desperately cling on to something that's over and done. By the way, inserting common Latin expressions into your reply doesn't make you look smart or help your argument along.

I like I said before, Microsoft has always been consistent with the look and feel of Windows in all their versions. They never changed the look after RTM. Windows 10 is the first one that gets subtle changes, but they all follow the same basic principle: flat design. They're not going to reintroduce glass into the interface. That has nothing to do with Apple or Sinofsky, two things you seem to be completely consumed with for some strange reason.

But hey, keep dreaming about glass effects in the OS on your computer if it makes you happy. It's obviously extremely important to your life.

 

 

 

Sorry if your technical level is not up to speed, but you are so wrong in so many areas that it would be a major project undertaking to address everything. The large number of inconsistencies in Windows UI design has been documented by many people. You are just swallowing the party line like you read a web page on MSDN or something.

And Latin? Are you serious? Have you used the internet any time in the last decade? That is a dirt common term that is used everywhere and well known that when you descend to the gutter to use Ad-Hominem your argument is completely lost and floundering.

 

Edited by DevTech
spelled my "latin" wrong lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
zhangm    1,338

Guys, please drop the condescension and back-and-forth belittlement. It is unnecessary to the points being made and obviously distracting from the topic.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DevTech    1,518

Sorry if your technical level is not up to speed, but you are so wrong in so many areas that it would be a major project undertaking to address everything. The large number of inconsistencies in Windows UI design has been documented by many people. You are just swallowing the party line like you read a web page on MSDN or something.

And Latin? Are you serious? Have you used the internet any time in the last decade? That is a dirt common term that is used everywhere and well known that when you descend to the gutter to use Ad-Homienem your argument is completely lost and floundering.

 

OK. Here's a suggestion. Ad-hominem is damaging to your own karma/self as much as you may think it is justified, it lowers just a little bit of yourself in a depressing kind of way and other readers really do not enjoy reading that stuff.

So I realized that just like I groan at the idea of digging up all the links and references to prove you wrong and might well be motivated to call you a few names instead as the easier path, it is quite likely that you are also in the same position of imagining all the work it would take to dig up the links and references to prove me wrong.

We can either agree to disagree, or just agree not to respond to each other's posts because the effort of finding common ground will be too large and we are not sitting together at a bar with some beers where we can read body language and see that we both have common interests in a subject area.

I have completely avoided providing any personal information or thoughts and have simply relayed facts of history that took a lot of digging to find out. Perhaps if I had been more "personal" it would have taken an edge off the debate. For example I enjoy and use Windows 10 and have upgraded 5 of all of my personal computers to 10 and will eventually do all of them.

Guys, please drop the condescension and back-and-forth belittlement. It is unnecessary to the points being made and obviously distracting from the topic.

I was just thinking along those lines and was making up such a post

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dot Matrix    7,438

You are being extra silly on this one unless you own a Tardis or are a close friend of the Doctor.

Branding in the computer bizz is a fashion industry. You have no idea whatsoever how the fashion will flow in a few years and neither does anyone else.

If Microsoft wants to add a customizable Titlebar to their App development, they will if they want to and your thoughts on the matter won't stop them. Oh wait. They DID in fact make Titlebars customizable in Windows 10 for Apps!

 

Skeuphomorphsm came about to ease people into computers back when they were first introduced. Now that that period has passed, it appears dated, and doesn't really fit anymore. Our cars don't mimic wood paneling any more, and no recent trend (any where) could indicate that any one wants to go back to that, let alone on their computers.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MikeChipshop    3,458

Skeuphomorphsm came about to ease people into computers back when they were first introduced. Now that that period has passed, it appears dated, and doesn't really fit anymore. Our cars don't mimic wood paneling, and no recent trend (any where) could indicate that any one wants to go back to that.

 

Absolutely. Computing and digital devices are common place now, and part of every day life. Long gone is the need to relate it to real life elements.
Digital design has merely found it's place in the world and long may it evolve.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DevTech    1,518

Skeuphomorphsm came about to ease people into computers back when they were first introduced. Now that that period has passed, it appears dated, and doesn't really fit anymore. Our cars don't mimic wood paneling, and no recent trend (any where) could indicate that any one wants to go back to that.

I actually agree with that and hope you are correct in you usage of a crystal ball.

But, I also thought that Bell-Bottom pants couldn't possibly come back and then they did. Oh the horrors...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DevTech    1,518

 

Absolutely. Computing and digital devices are common place now, and part of every day life. Long gone is the need to relate it to real life elements.
Digital design has merely found it's place in the world and long may it evolve.

 

You and I and everyone that would visit Neowin lives in a digital world and we see it everywhere. But to be a good designer is NOT to be trendy but to feel out the real needs of your target users and there is still a huge part of the human race of all ages that are still on-boarding the Digital Train and could probably use a comforting icon or two, but really, the wood paneling was never ever a useful metaphor for anything. It wasn't Skeumorphism it was Dumbmorphism...

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MikeChipshop    3,458

 

You and I and everyone that would visit Neowin lives in a digital world and we see it everywhere. But to be a good designer is NOT to be trendy but to feel out the real needs of your target users and there is still a huge part of the human race of all ages that are still on-boarding the Digital Train and could probably use a comforting icon or two, but really, the wood paneling was never ever a useful metaphor for anything. It wasn't Skeumorphism it was Dumbmorphism...

Completely agree with you there, and will be stealing the phrase 'dumbmorphism' for later use :p

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
floopydoodle    158

Skeuphomorphsm came about to ease people into computers back when they were first introduced. Now that that period has passed, it appears dated, and doesn't really fit anymore. Our cars don't mimic wood paneling any more, and no recent trend (any where) could indicate that any one wants to go back to that, let alone on their computers.

Exactly! And the just-because-we-can-factor due to the technological advancements in the late 90ies helped. People need to realize that there is never again going to be a time where displaying 16 million colors on a screen or rendering photo realistic images is  something new. That was the only reason why we had UIs that looked like someone had puked on them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DevTech    1,518

 

I actually agree with that and hope you are correct in you usage of a crystal ball.

But, I also thought that Bell-Bottom pants couldn't possibly come back and then they did. Oh the horrors...

Darn it. Although I agree with Dot Matrix on Apple's Skeumorphism, I just realized cars do in fact still mimic wood paneling. I'm sure we both visualized the old family station-wagon with wood, but still today you will find cars with fake wood trim as interior accents!

And as an addendum, we all run the risk of not even seeing the vast multitude of new computer users that are real human beings with real needs. If I was designing an application for new users, and usabilty studies showed skeumorphism helped them out in any way, then I would cheerfully use skeumorphism because that is ultimately good design. That is a few trumped up "ifs" that I hope would never actually happen but most design trends always go too far in one direction and I suspect there actually are valid pockets of uses for skeumorphism. Apple has already backed off from some of their newer flat design so things change and adapt and hopefully customers always come first in the end.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.