• Sign in to Neowin Faster!

    Create an account on Neowin to contribute and support the site.

Sign in to follow this  

Windows 10 aero taskbar?

Recommended Posts

Dot Matrix    7,417

Darn it. Although I agree with Dot Matrix on Apple's Skeumorphism, I just realized cars do in fact still mimic wood paneling. I'm sure we both visualized the old family station-wagon with wood, but still today you will find cars with fake wood trim as interior accents!

And as an addendum, we all run the risk of not even seeing the vast multitude of new computer users that are real human beings with real needs. If I was designing an application for new users, and usabilty studies showed skeumorphism helped them out in any way, then I would cheerfully use skeumorphism because that is ultimately good design. That is a few trumped up "ifs" that I hope would never actually happen but most design trends always go too far in one direction and I suspect there actually are valid pockets of uses for skeumorphism. Apple has already backed off from some of their newer flat design so things change and adapt and hopefully customers always come first in the end.

 

No. Not coming back. There doesn't need to be app designs with faux leather stitching, game boards with faux felt, or books with faux pages and book shelves. There is no way any usability studies would prove that nonsense beneficial.

"Skeuomorphism is a catch-all term for when objects retain ornamental elements of past, derivative iterations–elements that are no longer necessary to the current objects’ functions."

Edited by Dot Matrix
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
bluesman86    360

 

OK. Here's a suggestion. Ad-hominem is damaging to your own karma/self as much as you may think it is justified, it lowers just a little bit of yourself in a depressing kind of way and other readers really do not enjoy reading that stuff.

So I realized that just like I groan at the idea of digging up all the links and references to prove you wrong and might well be motivated to call you a few names instead as the easier path, it is quite likely that you are also in the same position of imagining all the work it would take to dig up the links and references to prove me wrong.

We can either agree to disagree, or just agree not to respond to each other's posts because the effort of finding common ground will be too large and we are not sitting together at a bar with some beers where we can read body language and see that we both have common interests in a subject area.

I have completely avoided providing any personal information or thoughts and have simply relayed facts of history that took a lot of digging to find out. Perhaps if I had been more "personal" it would have taken an edge off the debate. For example I enjoy and use Windows 10 and have upgraded 5 of all of my personal computers to 10 and will eventually do all of them.

 

I was just thinking along those lines and was making up such a post

 

Good for you for taking the "high ground". It instantly makes you look good in this whole thing. And thanks for sharing your knowledge on karma and the argumentum ad-hominem.

This is not about agreeing to disagree. You're making claims that seem totally ridiculous to me, and you keep talking about "facts", but I haven't seen anything so far that makes me believe what you're claiming has any credibility, while you're completely ignoring most of my counter-arguments, which is frustrating and insulting. Maybe that's why I'm reacting ad-hominem. 

I'm just waiting to see some backup to your claims. I'd happily eat my words if you came up with some actual proof, because I'm not an unreasonable guy at all, believe it or not. I just have a volatile hatred for bull-###### and fanboy nonsense. And now you're saying that digging up links with proof is too much work? Well, you shouldn't have started this thread and taken this position if that was the case.

You're basically saying: "This is true and all of you are wrong, and I don't feel like proving to you why that is.", and since we've introduced the subject of fallacies into this train-wreck of a discussion, I would refer to that as a red herring fallacy of emotional reasoning & wishful thinking. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DevTech    1,517

 

Good for you for taking the "high ground". It instantly makes you look good in this whole thing. And thanks for sharing your knowledge on karma and the argumentum ad-hominem.

This is not about agreeing to disagree. You're making claims that seem totally ridiculous to me, and you keep talking about "facts", but I haven't seen anything so far that makes me believe what you're claiming has any credibility, while you're completely ignoring most of my counter-arguments, which is frustrating and insulting. Maybe that's why I'm reacting ad-hominem. 

I'm just waiting to see some backup to your claims. I'd happily eat my words if you came up with some actual proof, because I'm not an unreasonable guy at all, believe it or not. I just have a volatile hatred for bull-###### and fanboy nonsense. And now you're saying that digging up links with proof is too much work? Well, you shouldn't have started this thread and taken this position if that was the case.

You're basically saying: "This is true and all of you are wrong, and I don't feel like proving to you why that is.", and since we've introduced the subject of fallacies into this train-wreck of a discussion, I would refer to that as a red herring fallacy of emotional reasoning & wishful thinking. 

 

1. I didn't start this forum topic

2. I have already said I would add links to various topics when I can

3. I told the mod I would do my part to stop this and so no other comment.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DevTech    1,517

Link:

This is Microsoft's official view about where things are headed.

Hit Play on the video and then pause it and study the UI as it goes along.

Lots and lots of transparency effects.

http://microsoft.com/productivityvision

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dot Matrix    7,417

Link:

This is Microsoft's official view about where things are headed.

Hit Play on the video and then pause it and study the UI as it goes along.

Lots and lots of transparency effects.

http://microsoft.com/productivityvision

 

Transparency != Skeuomorphic glass. Everything I see in that video is digital, and flat in design.

 

Edited by Dot Matrix
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kachan64    74

I remember I had a theme for Windows 8.1 before upgraded to Windows 10 that had that Windows 10 taskbar feel to it and I used it for a long time. 

I don't really care if someone give me aero. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DevTech    1,517

Transparency != Skeuomorphic glass skining.  

 

Wow... I start posting links people ask for and we want to nit pick at them?

By no stretch of the imagination is glass skeumorphic. There is no real world object being emulated to make people feel comfortable in a transition to a digital world. It was the pioneering first use of 3D video cards as a standard part of the O/S UI.

To paraphrase the metro creed, it was authentically digital. So fine, you don't like it. Different strokes and all. But it's not in the skeumorphic family of UI.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dot Matrix    7,417

By no stretch of the imagination is glass skeumorphic. There is no real world object being emulated to make people feel comfortable in a transition to a digital world.

It was emulating real world glass windows. It annoyingly had reflections all over it. It was skeuomorphic by every definition of the word. 

Edited by Dot Matrix
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DevTech    1,517

It was emulating real world glass windows. What do people think of when they hear that word? Glass. It was skeuomorphic by every definition of the word. 

Skeumorphic not at all dude. The english language adds multiple uses for words all the time.

Oh that's such a stretch like a snake twisted into a hyper-cube. Next you will be proposing that the Window in Microsoft Windows is skeumorphic because we look through windows in the real world and the spelling is the same.

And the we can continue this theatre of the absurd by recalling that the metro design was patterned after real world Swiss Clocks.

And the most authentically digital icon of the computer generation, Mario the plumber is skeumorphic because his name is Italian and he's a plumber.

Any chance we can just leave skeumorphism in Apple's caretaking and not keep throwing it around in the context of Windows?

Look, I know how you are going to respond already like it's an OCD thing or something so I'll let you have the last word in this silly skeumorphism thingy. So, have some fun with it. Actually, let's all try to be more playful. Life really is too short...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dot Matrix    7,417

 

Skeumorphic not at all dude. The english language adds multiple uses for words all the time.

Oh that's such a stretch like a snake twisted into a hyper-cube. Next you will be proposing that the Window in Microsoft Windows is skeumorphic because we look through windows in the real world and the spelling is the same.

And the we can continue this theatre of the absurd by recalling that the metro design was patterned after real world Swiss Clocks.

And the most authentically digital icon of the computer generation, Mario the plumber is skeumorphic because his name is Italian and he's a plumber.

Any chance we can just leave skeumorphism in Apple's caretaking and not keep throwing it around in the context of Windows?

Look, I know how you are going to respond already like it's an OCD thing or something so I'll let you have the last word in this silly skeumorphism thingy. So, have some fun with it. Actually, let's all try to be more playful. Life really is too short...

Now you're just being absurd. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DevTech    1,517

Now you're just being absurd. 

I promised you the last words on the subject and as Yoda might say, "Comment, I have not".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
bluesman86    360

Link:

This is Microsoft's official view about where things are headed.

Hit Play on the video and then pause it and study the UI as it goes along.

Lots and lots of transparency effects.

http://microsoft.com/productivityvision

 

Transparency and blur ≠ glass.

Yes, you see glass in those pictures, but they're just the devices or projection screens themselves. That's like saying Windows is emulating plastic when you run it on a regular LCD screen.

 

Wow... I start posting links people ask for and we want to nit pick at them?

By no stretch of the imagination is glass skeumorphic. There is no real world object being emulated to make people feel comfortable in a transition to a digital world. It was the pioneering first use of 3D video cards as a standard part of the O/S UI.

To paraphrase the metro creed, it was authentically digital. So fine, you don't like it. Different strokes and all. But it's not in the skeumorphic family of UI.

 

Nitpick? You post something that's flat-out not true and when people call you out on it, they're nitpicking? You're hilarious.

Skeuomorphism mimics real-world materials like wood, stone, paper, and yes, GLASS. Apple made the word famous, but it's been around for decades, and Microsoft used it before Apple did with Windows Aero. The fact that you link the word to Apple proves once again that you don't know what you're talking about. Remember that fake wood paneling on cars in the 70s? That's also called Skeuomorphism. Glass in the Windows Aero UI (or any UI) also falls under this category, no question. You might be insane if you're trying to argue against that. 

Your argument holds no water, and you've been on the receiving end of an Internet ass-whooping by several people now. Sometimes it just looks better to admit you were wrong.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.