Paris attacks: More than 120 killed at Bataclan and restaurants

[seeprime]

 

Europe doesn't have open borders, please read up before you try lecturing us.

Europe invited hundreds of thousands of refugees in. That equals open borders for these people. Without background checks, it was too easy for terrorists to insert themselves in with the multitudes of refugees that arrived. 

[T3X4S]

Why ask a question when you know there isn't an appropriate answer.  You can try and prevent it at the strategic level but tactically, I can't see prevention.  In other words, I do not know nor do I claim to know.  However, any rational person with an IQ above a gnat should understand that killing of 300M isn't the answer.

Well I think I fall just short of a gnat in the IQ dept.  but to clear things up - I was attempting to get the people to offer up a solution of their own instead of just sitting back saying "this wont work", or " that wont work"
And the proper reply was given - thats all I was trying to get at.

Not to see if they had the 1 correct answer - just an answer of any type.

FWIW - I am pretty sure I am in the range of a bowl of dog food w/ IQ - havent made it up to insect level -

[Mockingbird]

CNN said that more than 150 killed

[T3X4S]

"Thanks Religion!"
-Paris, France

[+Raze Subscriber²]

Well I think I fall just short of a gnat in the IQ dept.  but to clear things up - I was attempting to get the people to offer up a solution of their own instead of just sitting back saying "this wont work", or " that wont work"And the proper reply was given - thats all I was trying to get at.

Not to see if they had the 1 correct answer - just an answer of any type.

FWIW - I am pretty sure I am in the range of a bowl of dog food w/ IQ - havent made it up to insect level -

Don't be so hard on yourself, you're at least pushing Fruit Fly levels....  

 

On a serious note, my sympathies to the victims and families of this despicable act.

[Dashel]

So disgusting.  Vive la France!

[WinMacLin Guy]

I don't think you need to apologize. You just need to discard outdated religious belief systems if you haven't already, and integrate with Western society if that's where you choose to live. Sounds like you are on the right track.

Thank you for your comment. I was lucky enough to be born into a fairly open minded and diverse family. My immediate and extended family largely consists of non-practicing Muslims as well as (by large non-practicing) members of other religions including Christianity, Judaism, Zoroastians (ancient Iranian religion), and a good number of agnostics and atheists. My exposure to my diverse family members and my own personal experiences/characteristics (largely my love of science and my sexual orientation) led me to realize that I did not want to be bound and restricted by religion (many of which, as you stated, promote an outdated set of views and practices); moreover, I realized that there are soo many questions in this universe that cannot be answered by any religion, hence why I chose to be an agnostic fairly early on in my life. For me, the secular ideals of Western society and the protection of human-life and dignity are far more important than any religious ideology.

[T3X4S]

 

Thank you for your comment. I was lucky enough to be born into a fairly open minded and diverse family. My immediate and extended family largely consists of non-practicing Muslims as well as (by large non-practicing) members of other religions including Christianity, Judaism, Zoroastians (ancient Iranian religion), and a good number of agnostics and atheists. My exposure to my diverse family members and my own personal experiences/characteristics (largely my love of science and my sexual orientation) led me to realize that I did not want to be bound and restricted by religion (many of which, as you stated, promote an outdated set of views and practices); moreover, I realized that there are soo many questions in this universe that cannot be answered by any religion, hence why I chose to be an agnostic fairly early on in my life. For me, the secular ideals of Western society and the protection of human-life and dignity are far more important than any religious ideology.

Wow - well said !  

I wonder how many christians over here know that a lot of their bible was taken from Zoroastrianism ?  (but I guess that is really for another thread)

But - thanks for sharing.

Edited November 14, 2015 by T3X4S

[Jim K Global Moderator]

Well I think I fall just short of a gnat in the IQ dept.  but to clear things up - I was attempting to get the people to offer up a solution of their own instead of just sitting back saying "this wont work", or " that wont work"And the proper reply was given - thats all I was trying to get at.

Not to see if they had the 1 correct answer - just an answer of any type.

FWIW - I am pretty sure I am in the range of a bowl of dog food w/ IQ - havent made it up to insect level -

I wish I had the answer ... but it is hard to relate or even get into the mindset of these people.  How do you defeat a group of people who do not fear death and want to kill as many people as possible while being martyred?  One answer is what we are currently doing...which is to bomb the ever living crap out of them ... but that in itself can have a negative impact when innocent civilians are killed (thus turning others into extremist) or just radicalizing people in general.  So, yea...bombing seems not to be the solution.  However, you can not allow them (say ISIS) to have free reign because what they are doing is horrific to villages and people they are conquering.  So strategic bombing to hamper their abilities may be short term fixes (but will not an overall fix)

Anyway, if I had to give an answer I would say that the other Arabic (or predominantly Islamic) states need to take on the fight and educate.  If Saudi Arabia, Iran, Kuwait, UAE, etc., fully committed (with the help of Western technology/aid but without Western influence) to ending these terrorist’s organizations...I believe they could.  It might even be worth a shot since the current course of action doesn't seem to be making things any better.  I may not agree with Sharia law that some of these states practice ... but it is better than randomly getting blown up.  Then again, these folks have been at war for a thousand years ... so...yea there is that.

 

Lastly, I will say that I believe the Iraq war (and I served in Iraq) will go down as one of the biggest blunders the US/allies have committed.  It has destabilized the region and though it overthrew a ruthless dictator ... people of Iraq now have to watch their every move because of countless other "dictators".  The US, after 9/11, should have focused solely on Al-Qaeda and the Taliban.  Hindsight is 20/20.

Anyway, I digress.  Just a sad and terrible day for the people of Paris and France.  Wish I could help them in some way ... but there is only so much you can do sitting 4500 miles away.  
 

Edited November 14, 2015 by jjkusaf

[Rippleman]

solve the problem of fundamentalist islam. 

 

the discovery of a free unlimited energy source.

[+Red King Subscriber²]

Good article,

http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/11/13/geller-muslims-declare-war-on-france-it-was-a-bloodbath/

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/ben-carson-ban-middle-eastern-refugees-after-paris-attacks-20151113

Edited November 14, 2015 by _Alexander

[compl3x]

The fact that attacks are getting more organised with more perpetrators involved & resulting in bigger death counts is what should be worrying people. A lone nut is a lone nut, a conspiracy of 6 or 7 or 8 people is another story entirely.

The usual suspects are already blaming French society for this atrocity.

[Melfster]

Ben Carson doesn't know what the hell he is talking about Iraq was never under control it was disaster waiting to happen. Once the us went in what it do was bring together the leaders of Isis. Thanks Bush.

[FloatingFatMan]

I'd rather have the Wild West all over again than people getting shot all over the place without being able to fight back.

 

That solution might work for the US, but we in the EU want nothing of it, thanks.  

[FloatingFatMan]

Evidence? I am sure there were some atheists associated with both sides, but plenty of bomb-planters? Sounds BS.

 

The "Troubles" in Ireland, as they were known, have nothing at all to do with religion; that was just used to stir up additional trouble. It is 100% to do with the IRA wanting British rule out of Northern Ireland. 

[compl3x]

 

The "Troubles" in Ireland, as they were known, have nothing at all to do with religion; that was just used to stir up additional trouble. It is 100% to do with the IRA wanting British rule out of Northern Ireland. 

I wasn't talking about that, I was asking for evidence that there were "plenty" of Irish atheists running around planting bombs. While not specifically a religious war the existing hostilities between protestants and Catholics wouldn't be denied as an additional & contributing source of violence and hatred.

[T3X4S]

 

The "Troubles" in Ireland, as they were known, have nothing at all to do with religion; that was just used to stir up additional trouble. It is 100% to do with the IRA wanting British rule out of Northern Ireland. 

Reminds me of the old joke about the guy in Ireland who said he was an atheist - then the other guy said, "Yeah but are you a protestant atheist, or a catholic atheist ?"

[DocM]

I wonder how many christians over here know that a lot of their bible was taken from Zoroastrianism ?  

 

Anyone who's studied King Cyrus or the Maji. King Cyrus is mentioned more than 20 times, and indirectly referred to a few more.

[Gerowen]

Violence begets violence. The answer is to rise above it. Rather than assassinating alleged IS fighters with drone strikes we should be capturing them and trying them in an international criminal court. We cannot sink to their level.

Unfortunately what we'll see is western governments doubling down, promising to increase their military involvement. It will play right into the hands of the IS.

They want to kill anybody who doesn't subscribe to their particular brand of Islam.  The only way to deal with them is to kill them, every single one of them.

[+Anarkii Subscriber²]

Muslims arn't the problem at all. Some are really nice people (as evidenced here with some of the community members).

What is the problem is Islam. Especially the demented view that ISIS have of it. 

[T3X4S]

 

Anyone who's studied King Cyrus or the Maji. King Cyrus is mentioned more than 20 times, and indirectly referred to a few more.

I was referring the whole notion of heaven and hell, free choice, uncreated creator, all the major ideas came from Zoroastrianism and older religions, most simply just re-hash older ones, for sake of local reasons or modernity - nothing new
 

[T3X4S]

Hitch from the grave is still one of the wisest on the planet - this is interesting

[compl3x]

Good luck finding anyone to agree. I've made this argument about a million times; you can be critical of a belief without hating or implicating every follower as a terrorist. The Western narrative around religion has been too positive and spoken with undue reverence that criticism of religion is largely rejected before it starts. Couple that with the guilt a lot of people feel for past social injustices and you see begin to understand why blame is quickly diverted to other sources.

I've already read in some of the mainstream news outlets about how this is the result of disaffected young in France. Keep in mind we don't even know who is responsible yet & the "oh, if only group X were treated better, you wouldn't see this" explanation has arguably very little supporting evidence or at least cannot be assumed until you know who you're dealing with.

[FloatingFatMan]

Keep in mind we don't even know who is responsible yet & the "oh, if only group X were treated better, you wouldn't see this" explanation has arguably very little supporting evidence or at least cannot be assumed until you know who you're dealing with.

 

Paris attacks: Hollande blames Islamic State for 'act of war'

The near-simultaneous attacks in Paris that killed at least 127 people were an "act of war" organised by the Islamic State (IS) militant group, says France's President Francois Hollande.

He said the attacks, carried out by eight gunmen and suicide bombers, were "organised and planned from outside".

 

Source

Seems that it's exactly who everyone thought it was. Chances are, people who were hidden among all the thousands of migrants arriving daily.

 

Edited November 14, 2015 by FloatingFatMan

[PGHammer]

 

I wouldn't agree with nuking anyone, either, just to be clear.

Your suggestions aren't without merit, but some are extreme or would require more than unilateral decisions by one country. Additionally, Islamic State is having some success with funding itself through commandeered oil fields and other fundraising efforts; to some degree they are becoming more self-sufficient. I'll agree defeating an ideology can't just be a boots on the ground affair, but purely political strategy would also fail. Especially if you have a pressing issue like Yazidis being chased up the mountain side by a group who wants to rape, slaughter and enslave them. Sanction ain't going to help them.

As opposed to making the entirety of the region go away, I would suggest keeping up the decapitation strikes against the leadership - eventually you will run into someone that is in no hurry to meet Allah.  When a leader sticks his head up, remove the head from the body.  If a nation-state is backing them, do the same with THEIR leadership - make a point of leaving the underlings alone.Don't let the leaders hide behind the grunts.