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Windows 10 LTSB 1511 ISO

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xWhiplash    349

 

It's called you schedule updates to happen when the users aren't there... There are other ways to update Windows without using WSUS.

For instance, I manage hundreds of servers, and thousands of endpoints (workstations) with Kaseya. We have policies for each company we manage, and they can choose when to install updates. Typically the client will ask for this to be done during the night, so we just instruct users to keep their PCs on and they update over night.

Planning and preparation also helps. 

 

I cannot do that in my environment.  There are people that FINISH working at 2 AM and there are people that START working at 2 am.  There are people that leave their computers on all the time with stuff they haven't saved.  We have told them many many many many many many times before.  I would still lose my job if I forced it on them.  So no, I cannot do this.  And they would have a fit if their system just "upgraded".

Edited by xWhiplash

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Jared-    577

Then you exclude those machines from the monthly patch circle and treat them differently.

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xWhiplash    349

Then you exclude those machines from the monthly patch circle and treat them differently.

 

You guys do not know how the upgrades work.....You can only defer the 1511 upgrade for a few months.  With LTSB, you can defer it for years.  Which will give me time to push out a new image.  And we still want Windows security updates every month you know.

There are systems I have not been able to update since 2011.

How can I defer the 1511 upgrade for 2-3 years and still receive security and critical updates with the normal Enterprise version?  I read you can ONLY defer it for 6 months then you stop receiving security and critical updates.  That means every 6 months, I will need to re-image 100s of PCs, or let them perform in-place upgrades.

How can I completely remove all the apps?  How can I make sure they won't come back after an upgrade?

LTSB is just a win-win for our environment.  Why are people fighting it?  What do I LOSE from using it?  We don't care about apps.  We don't care about newer features within 6 months.  If just using the LTSB will make my job easier, why should I go with the standard Enterprise which requires more work?

I am well aware of the management tools available.  WSUS/Windows Update for Business and AppLocker to lock down the apps.  But I do not need to make this more complicated than it needs to be.  In fact, I still need to use AppLocker with LTSB to disable the "Contact Support" app.

Edited by xWhiplash

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Jared-    577

I most defiantly know how upgrades work, mate lol. 

And yes if you have machines that are that critical, LTSB would suit, but I wouldn't be deploying it office wide.

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xWhiplash    349

I most defiantly know how upgrades work, mate lol. 

And yes if you have machines that are that critical, LTSB would suit, but I wouldn't be deploying it office wide.

 

Have you read what I said?  I cannot defer upgrade forever.  And all the machines are that way.

Like I said, explain to me what I am missing deploying it office wide.  I do not need ANYTHING from the standard Enterprise on ANY computer.  I do not need the store, edge, apps, ...  Why should I install it "just because"?  Well that is great, I either let systems upgrade in 6 months and get in trouble, or defer the upgrades for years and have them no longer receive security/critical updates.

How hard is it to get: None of the computers should ever perform in-place upgrades.  The ones that were upgraded from Vista to Windows 7 caused major issues.  Therefore, I need to re-image 100s of PCs every 6 months.  We do not have a multi-cast solution.

I am being serious here.  What am I missing that I absolutely NEED to use the standard Enterprise edition?  It doesn't have anything we need or even want.  LTSB has every feature we need.  I fail to see why I need to use the standard enterprise edition just because.  Al it does is cause more work.

Edited by xWhiplash

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xWhiplash    349

Thanks.  I still haven't found a reason to prefer Enterprise over Enterprise LTSB.  We have both options available, and Enterprise just adds more work with no gain.

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Jared-    577

Zombie thread...

 

So I just loaded this into a VM - I would not deploy this throughout an office.

 

It's crippled, and I wouldn't be surprised if some software doesn't work because it's missing some core components. I would roll this out to thin clients, and business critical machines (ie factory machines etc). Otherwise stock standard Enterprise would be fine. 

 

I just finished a roll out of Win 10 Ent, and it works fine no worries - thanks to GPO, a half decent default profile, and good infrastructure. Users seem happy. We, neither the client aren't phased about applying updates. WSUS\WSUS for Business, and a decent update plan usually does the trick. Helps we manage endpoints via Kaseya as well.   

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xWhiplash    349
On 12/28/2015 at 2:38 AM, Jared- said:

Zombie thread...

 

So I just loaded this into a VM - I would not deploy this throughout an office.

 

It's crippled, and I wouldn't be surprised if some software doesn't work because it's missing some core components. I would roll this out to thin clients, and business critical machines (ie factory machines etc). Otherwise stock standard Enterprise would be fine. 

 

I just finished a roll out of Win 10 Ent, and it works fine no worries - thanks to GPO, a half decent default profile, and good infrastructure. Users seem happy. We, neither the client aren't phased about applying updates. WSUS\WSUS for Business, and a decent update plan usually does the trick. Helps we manage endpoints via Kaseya as well.   

And what is crippling about it?  We use Office 2010/2013, Adobe CS4 to CC.  That is pretty much it.

 

What is crippling to you, is stuff our office does not need.  NEVER.  We do not need the following anywhere under any circumstances:

 

  • Cortana
  • Store
  • Edge
  • Apps
  • Always the latest build

And again, we can never let systems automatically update themselves.  Therefore, LTSB is our only solution.

 

Nobody has given me a reason why it is bad.  Just saying it is a bad idea when it is not in my situation.  I have asked many times, what is in Enterprise that is not in Enterprise LTSB that our business needs?  LTSB has a lot in the pros column for us.

Edited by xWhiplash

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JustGeorge    1,659

If you buy Volume license keys from the VLSC, I assume you get the LTSB ISO as a download option, correct?

 

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xWhiplash    349

We have a silver package which includes 25 licenses of Enterprise OR Enterprise LTSB.

 

Another reason for LTSB:  What if a later build breaks a program we use?  We can't just let systems upgrade on their own.  And with Enterprise we only get 6 months.  With LTSB we get 10 years.

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Jared-    577

Again, your reasons come down to poor planning.

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xWhiplash    349
4 hours ago, Jared- said:

Again, your reasons come down to poor planning.

Again, nobody explained why this is the case.  Why is it poor planning?

 

What if an update breaks an old program we use?  LTSB give us that stability without forcing 1511 or later updates for up to 10 years.  How is this poor planning?  This seems like the CORRECT planning.  Yeah we could use Enterprise and get all the upgrades and in 3 years have one of our programs break.  THAT is poor planning.  Not what I am doing here.  I am planning for YEARS, not 6 months.  There is no way that is poor planning.

 

How will that look according to management?  "You know that update we HAVE to release in 6 months because we did not use LTSB, yeah it breaks our most critical piece of software.  Sorry, I did not plan for 3 years.  Instead, I just am planning for 6 months at a time."

 

That seems like poor planning to me.  LTSB give us 10 years.  10 YEARS.......10 years.  Things are working now on LTSB.  Will all of our programs work (if we do not get newer ones) on the current branch for windows in 10 years?  Maybe...maybe not.  THIS is how to plan.

 

Under all my testings, LTSB is 100% perfect for us.  There is nothing......nothing in the standard enterprise edition that we need.  So please, explain to me what is the damn problem here?  What do I absolutely need in Enterprise vs Enterprise LTSB?

 

Cortana?  Nope, under no circumstances should that be used in our business

Edge?  It breaks some of our intranet sites, so IE 11 must be used.  No need to have Edge

Store?  Nope, under no circumstances should that be used in our business

Xbox?  Nope, under no circumstances should that be used in our business

Every other app?  Nope, under no circumstances should that be used in our business

 

We need YEARS of stability.  LTSB gives us that.

 

And again, nobody has properly mentioned how to prevent Enterprise from performing in-place upgrades for years.  Again, computers should only get upgraded when our IT deploys a new system image.  This occurs every couple of years.

 

I asked around "What is the equivalent of Windows 7" and the answer was LTSB.

 

 

Edited by xWhiplash
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Vince800    298

Yes, this is the thing. I can't find a solid piece on Microsoft's website which says something along the lines of 10240 - Supported on CBB until <date>. It seems to vary depending on who you talk to & due to similar reasons as the above poster, we too have opted to use LTSB & have indeed already begun rolling it out to our machines.

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adrynalyne    13,016
5 minutes ago, Vince800 said:

Yes, this is the thing. I can't find a solid piece on Microsoft's website which says something along the lines of 10240 - Supported on CBB until <date>. It seems to vary depending on who you talk to & due to similar reasons as the above poster, we too have opted to use LTSB & have indeed already begun rolling it out to our machines.

Client operating systems

Windows 10, released in July 2015 **

Latest update or service pack

N/A

End of mainstream support

October 13, 2020

End of extended support

October 14, 2025

 

 

** Updates are cumulative, with each update built upon all of the updates that preceded it. A device needs to install the latest update to remain supported. Updates may include new features, fixes (security and/or non-security), or a combination of both. Not all features in an update will work on all devices. A device may not be able to receive updates if the device hardware is incompatible, lacking current drivers, or otherwise outside of the Original Equipment Manufacturer’s (“OEM”) support period. Update availability may vary, for example by country, region, network connectivity, mobile operator (e.g., for cellular-capable devices), or hardware capabilities (including, e.g., free disk space).

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Vince800    298

Thanks ,but those support dates are for Windows 10 as a whole aren't they? Not individual builds.

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adrynalyne    13,016
1 minute ago, Vince800 said:

Thanks ,but those support dates are for Windows 10 as a whole aren't they? Not individual builds.

It's for Windows 10 in its entirety. That means all updates must be installed to remain supported. Unless it is LTSB, and then there is no requirement to install those updates. 

 

Windows 10 as a whole for all versions have the same support timeline. It's the requirements that determine the difference. This may change with Redstone but I doubt it. 

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Studio384    1,455

It is poor planning, don't try to deny that. You have 6 months to test new builds, use them. You shouldn't be using LTSB on normal systems, the LTSB builds are ment for mission critical systems that can't be shut down. And I've got the idea you have a very bad knowledge of what the LTSB branch actually does; as this thread implies you think that version 1511 will roll out to that branch. It won't. The LTSB branch is not about delaying builds. It isn't about that at all. The LTSB branch just gets a subset of the CB and CBB builds. You can't delay builds for years, not even on LTSB, you're just receiving less of them. Also, you shouldn't use LTSB builds for the simple fact that these builds are simply not made for the usage you want to use them. Secondly, LTSB builds will go rather quickly in what used to be extended support, only fixing security issues, bug fixes will be left out.

 

Which brings me to another point: you can't shut down these PCs to upgrade put you can shut them down to install all the other updates? How bad at your job are you? That is poor planning right there.

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Jared-    577

^ Beer time.

 

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Jared-    577

^ Yeah, we know? It's been there for weeks. 

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xWhiplash    349
On 1/3/2016 at 5:08 PM, Studio384 said:

It is poor planning, don't try to deny that. You have 6 months to test new builds, use them. You shouldn't be using LTSB on normal systems, the LTSB builds are ment for mission critical systems that can't be shut down. And I've got the idea you have a very bad knowledge of what the LTSB branch actually does; as this thread implies you think that version 1511 will roll out to that branch. It won't. The LTSB branch is not about delaying builds. It isn't about that at all. The LTSB branch just gets a subset of the CB and CBB builds. You can't delay builds for years, not even on LTSB, you're just receiving less of them. Also, you shouldn't use LTSB builds for the simple fact that these builds are simply not made for the usage you want to use them. Secondly, LTSB builds will go rather quickly in what used to be extended support, only fixing security issues, bug fixes will be left out.

 

Which brings me to another point: you can't shut down these PCs to upgrade put you can shut them down to install all the other updates? How bad at your job are you? That is poor planning right there.

And that is what we want?  I am sorry, our business does not need new features every 6 months.  We need a replacement for Windows 7.  No store, no cortana, no Edge (breaks our business sites), absolutely 0....zero apps.

 

The point still remains, how is it poor planning?  If a future upgrade breaks software we use, we only have 6 months to delay or buy different products.  That is poor planning right there.

 

And seriously?  You are seriously comparing a normal Windows 7 update to the 1511 upgrade?  A Windows 7 update is not the same as the 1511 upgrade.  We were planning on using the standard enterprise version.  UNTIL:

  1. The upgrade process took well over an hour on some of our test machines (slow HDDs).  It took 40 minutes on a large SSD even.
  2. Left Windows.old folders on an already filled up SSD.
  3. Uninstalled RSAT on one machine that had it.
  4. Uninstalled our AV software.
  5. Re-installed all apps that I removed from the installation media.
  6. Reset our default file associations

And one of our testing machines actually failed during the 1511 upgrade.  Regular updates fail sometimes too, but it was not a good first impression.  If 1511 was just a simple update like SP1, this would not be a discussion.

 

Nobody has yet answered me.  How can I prevent the in-place upgrades?  We have just decided to stick with Windows 7 then plan to move away from Microsoft.  This is just ridiculous.

 

Instead of saying "Poor planning" or "You are bad at your job", why not mention how to fix some of these issues huh?  How can I get more than 6 months if we need it on the normal current branch for business?  How can I prevent the in-place upgrades?  How can I prevent apps from re-installing after these updates?

 

Nobody has mentioned this.  Instead it is all "Poor planning".  It seems I am doing a pretty good job planning to me.....isn't the entire idea of planning upgrades to discuss the potential issues?  Or would "Better planning" to you guys to just go in to Windows 10 blind and just deal with these issues instead of....GASP....PLANNING IT.  This is the correct way to plan a major move to an OS.  I tested Enterprise, then 1511 hit and all these concerns popped up.  And to you guys this is "poor planning"?  Ok, fine.

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adrynalyne    13,016
8 minutes ago, xWhiplash said:

And that is what we want?  I am sorry, our business does not need new features every 6 months.  We need a replacement for Windows 7.  No store, no cortana, no Edge (breaks our business sites), absolutely 0....zero apps.

 

The point still remains, how is it poor planning?  If a future upgrade breaks software we use, we only have 6 months to delay or buy different products.  That is poor planning right there.

 

And seriously?  You are seriously comparing a normal Windows 7 update to the 1511 upgrade?  A Windows 7 update is not the same as the 1511 upgrade.  We were planning on using the standard enterprise version.  UNTIL:

  1. The upgrade process took well over an hour on some of our test machines (slow HDDs).  It took 40 minutes on a large SSD even.
  2. Left Windows.old folders on an already filled up SSD.
  3. Uninstalled RSAT on one machine that had it.
  4. Uninstalled our AV software.
  5. Re-installed all apps that I removed from the installation media.
  6. Reset our default file associations

And one of our testing machines actually failed during the 1511 upgrade.  Regular updates fail sometimes too, but it was not a good first impression.  If 1511 was just a simple update like SP1, this would not be a discussion.

 

Nobody has yet answered me.  How can I prevent the in-place upgrades?  We have just decided to stick with Windows 7 then plan to move away from Microsoft.  This is just ridiculous.

 

Instead of saying "Poor planning" or "You are bad at your job", why not mention how to fix some of these issues huh?  How can I get more than 6 months if we need it on the normal current branch for business?  How can I prevent the in-place upgrades?  How can I prevent apps from re-installing after these updates?

 

Nobody has mentioned this.  Instead it is all "Poor planning".  It seems I am doing a pretty good job planning to me.....isn't the entire idea of planning upgrades to discuss the potential issues?  Or would "Better planning" to you guys to just go in to Windows 10 blind and just deal with these issues instead of....GASP....PLANNING IT.  This is the correct way to plan a major move to an OS.  I tested Enterprise, then 1511 hit and all these concerns popped up.  And to you guys this is "poor planning"?  Ok, fine.

Calm down, jeeze. Ignore them if you don't agree with what they have to say. It sounds to me like LTSB is where you should be but just know that you are stuck on 10240 for a long, long time. 

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Daedroth    492
On 03/01/2016 at 10:08 PM, Studio384 said:

It is poor planning, don't try to deny that. You have 6 months to test new builds, use them. You shouldn't be using LTSB on normal systems, the LTSB builds are ment for mission critical systems that can't be shut down. And I've got the idea you have a very bad knowledge of what the LTSB branch actually does; as this thread implies you think that version 1511 will roll out to that branch. It won't. The LTSB branch is not about delaying builds. It isn't about that at all. The LTSB branch just gets a subset of the CB and CBB builds. You can't delay builds for years, not even on LTSB, you're just receiving less of them. Also, you shouldn't use LTSB builds for the simple fact that these builds are simply not made for the usage you want to use them. Secondly, LTSB builds will go rather quickly in what used to be extended support, only fixing security issues, bug fixes will be left out.

 

Which brings me to another point: you can't shut down these PCs to upgrade put you can shut them down to install all the other updates? How bad at your job are you? That is poor planning right there.

It is not poor planning. Microsoft have designed the LTSB version to work very much like how schools and businesses upgrade their OS at present, usually once every few years.

I work in a school, and when it comes to rolling out Windows 10 to our clients, we will be using LTSB. Simply because it is missing specific features that we do not need, such as Cortana, Store, Edge and the Apps/App Store. So it makes sense for us to use the LTSB version, don't you think?

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shockz    6,877
57 minutes ago, xWhiplash said:

And that is what we want?  I am sorry, our business does not need new features every 6 months.  We need a replacement for Windows 7.  No store, no cortana, no Edge (breaks our business sites), absolutely 0....zero apps.

 

The point still remains, how is it poor planning?  If a future upgrade breaks software we use, we only have 6 months to delay or buy different products.  That is poor planning right there.

 

And seriously?  You are seriously comparing a normal Windows 7 update to the 1511 upgrade?  A Windows 7 update is not the same as the 1511 upgrade.  We were planning on using the standard enterprise version.  UNTIL:

  1. The upgrade process took well over an hour on some of our test machines (slow HDDs).  It took 40 minutes on a large SSD even.
  2. Left Windows.old folders on an already filled up SSD.
  3. Uninstalled RSAT on one machine that had it.
  4. Uninstalled our AV software.
  5. Re-installed all apps that I removed from the installation media.
  6. Reset our default file associations

And one of our testing machines actually failed during the 1511 upgrade.  Regular updates fail sometimes too, but it was not a good first impression.  If 1511 was just a simple update like SP1, this would not be a discussion.

 

Nobody has yet answered me.  How can I prevent the in-place upgrades?  We have just decided to stick with Windows 7 then plan to move away from Microsoft.  This is just ridiculous.

 

Instead of saying "Poor planning" or "You are bad at your job", why not mention how to fix some of these issues huh?  How can I get more than 6 months if we need it on the normal current branch for business?  How can I prevent the in-place upgrades?  How can I prevent apps from re-installing after these updates?

 

Nobody has mentioned this.  Instead it is all "Poor planning".  It seems I am doing a pretty good job planning to me.....isn't the entire idea of planning upgrades to discuss the potential issues?  Or would "Better planning" to you guys to just go in to Windows 10 blind and just deal with these issues instead of....GASP....PLANNING IT.  This is the correct way to plan a major move to an OS.  I tested Enterprise, then 1511 hit and all these concerns popped up.  And to you guys this is "poor planning"?  Ok, fine.

Don't let them bother you Whiplash, I doubt any more than a handful in this thread have an actual system admin experience, most are here because they've got a hard on for the phone and nothing more.

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Studio384    1,455
56 minutes ago, Daedroth said:

It is not poor planning. Microsoft have designed the LTSB version to work very much like how schools and businesses upgrade their OS at present, usually once every few years.

I work in a school, and when it comes to rolling out Windows 10 to our clients, we will be using LTSB. Simply because it is missing specific features that we do not need, such as Cortana, Store, Edge and the Apps/App Store. So it makes sense for us to use the LTSB version, don't you think?

It is poor planning if you can't get around with such updates. Because, again, the LTSB branch is ment for mission critical systems and doesn't receive updates like normal versions of Windows do. You'll only receive important security updates. No bug fixes at all. And that can become a problem for other software real fast. If you don't need those features, than just ignore them, but don't push a system on your users that isn't made for them.

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